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[Baroquemantic]

Only a tiny minority actually really liked the 4 Killzone games.

The fact that Guerrilla never figured out over 4 games that an FPS is from the perspective of the character, not their gun, which is why you always appear to be 3 feet tall in Killzone, is still one of the most baffling design decisions in gaming.

You're right. Only a tiny minority liked the 4 home console Killzone games since that includes the first game, which isn't very good. The other three aren't anywhere near bad.

A number of the first person games I've played have made it seem like the player character is very short, so I don't believe that's something exclusive to Killzone.

Probably all the games they've made. What are we defining as good enough? Better than a typical Ubisoft AAA game? Aiming for average?

Most Ubisoft AAA games are quite good, though. And so are Guerilla's games outside of KZ1.

 

[xxracerxx]

No. But I'm worried about Scalebound.

We've only seen that one demo from the show, correct?

 

[Shaanyboi]

We don't know the grander structure of Horizon.

 

[BlanketFort]

Is it just me or has there been a lack of gameplay trailers, a lack of information about the story, combat system, or any other elements?

I offer as a counterpoint - No Man's Sky and DOOM (2016).

NMS - A critical and popular flop. (at the time of this writing, amidst a Steam sale and the evening of a holiday weekend garnering only 1212 players playing) Lots of "game play" trailers and "imaginative story telling" hype. Lots of "features and systems" demoed. Critical flop that might go down in history as one of the biggest bamboozles of all time.

Then there are examples like DOOM.

Hidden and obfuscated from the public (literally having trailers only shown in rooms at Quake Con). Reviews withheld. A limited multiplayer demo. and then boom. A critical darling and a game garnering mass popular adoration. A true gaming masterpiece managing to capture the magic of the original while iterating on the "push forward" gameplay in modern and interestingg ways.

Getting out early and showing stuff means nothing in this day and age.

"I am looking to preorder about 2 games"

People, for the love of all things holy, STOP PRE-ORDERING GAMES.

 

[Black_Red]

We've only seen that one demo from the show, correct?

Yeah, and it was no good, I'm hoping they revamped the bow at least.

 

[cheesekao]

We've only seen that one demo from the show, correct?

Two actually.

 

[Movalpolos]

I
"I am looking to preorder about 2 games"

People, for the love of all things holy, STOP PRE-ORDERING GAMES.

That's not your problem.

 

[TheDarkKnight774]

We've only seen that one demo from the show, correct?

Two. And they both underwhelmed me

 

[moffattron9000]

The big disappointments (Destiny, Watch Dogs, No Man's Sky) have been games that sell themselves as genre changing moments, but then turn out to be average games. Now if you look at Horizon: Zero Dawn, there's nothing that we've seen hasn't been done elsewhere (Monster Hunter combat, AC traversal, Mass Effect dialogue trees). It just really hasn't been brought together. If they can pull that off, we could have something pretty damn good on our hands.

 

[The God]

The most important question is :

What is the barometer for disappointment? What would they need to do or not do to be considered that?

well supposedly Horizon is being built to be Sony's next big franchise like Uncharted last generation, so I would say that's the barometer.

 

[Movalpolos]

The big disappointments (Destiny, Watch Dogs, No Man's Sky) have been games that sell themselves as genre changing moments, but then turn out to be average games. Now if you look at Horizon: Zero Dawn, there's nothing that we've seen hasn't been done elsewhere (Monster Hunter combat, AC traversal, Mass Effect dialogue trees). It just really hasn't been brought together. If they can pull that off, we could have something pretty damn good on our hands.

Destiny wasn't a disappointment though.

 

[BlanketFort]

I don't think i've pre ordered a game since Fallout 4, and I played that for maybe 5 hours until I just didn't want to anymore.

OP - reread the above sentence.

You've been burned in the past (recently, even!) and are still looking to preorder... why?

That Amazon money isn't going anywhere. Sit on it. Wait until there is something you are confident that you know you want. No guess work, no interpolation of trailers or early impressions. Pull the trigger once you know (as reasonably well as you can) that the game is going to be a good fit.

No reason to preorder. Ever.

 

[Xandremi]

People, for the love of all things holy, STOP PRE-ORDERING GAMES.

I'll pre-orders whatever I damn please thank you, it's my money to spend as I please.

My horizon zero dawn pre-order is lock and loaded.

 

[n0razi]

I don't doubt Guerilla's technical abilities but their games have always lacked that special storytelling punch that Naughty Dog and Insomniac have

 

[Karu]

I am sure the general public will like it. Might be a disappointment for me personally.

Just in general I could see the possibility of another Shadow of Mordor situation on GAF afterwards though. (Which I cant say much aBout as I havent played it)

 

[Reg]

Looks promising. The gameplay videos out there all look good. I ain't worried

 

[Neonep]

I played the game at PSX, there is nothing to worry about. This game is going to be something else. This is coming from someone that isn't really a big fan of playstation 1st party games either. This game just seems to be hitting all the right notes.

 

[Inuhanyou]

well supposedly Horizon is being built to be Sony's next big franchise like Uncharted last generation, so I would say that's the barometer.

So sales? Reviews? I think standards have grown since last gen, so i don't think expecting 90+ is really all that feasible at this point.

But i think expecting 85+ is a reasonable expectation.

But i don't really care about critical scores. I just want the world to be fully explorable, the gameplay to be fast and fluid, the upgrade system and gameplay options to be lengthy, and the story to not suck.

So far we've seen that 3 out the 4 are pretty solid what with the towns we've seen, the gameplay on show and crafting elements displayed. Story is a complete mystery

 

[Chuck Norris]

The core gameplay looks incredibly strong, as are the graphics. Much of that is to be expected from those who have played KZ games

The questions are more around the story, quests, structure, variety etc

Not really much they can do to prove those elements until the game comes out

 

[Movalpolos]

I played the game at PSX, there is nothing to worry about. This game is going to be something else. This is coming from someone that isn't really a big fan of playstation 1st party games either. This game just seems to be hitting all the right notes.

Good to hear.

 

[Dabanton]

From the videos it looks like it could start out fantastic but get repetitive very quickly and not in the 30 secs of fun way.

Plus imo Guerrilla always make good looking games with gameplay that is just OK.

As with most of the games out this year, I'll wait for the 2 week honeymoon period to be over for actual honest opinions.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

A number of the first person games I've played have made it seem like the player character is very short, so I don't believe that's something exclusive to Killzone.

No? I have never played an FPS where your character seems like they are 3 feet tall, unless they are actually a 3 feet tall character.

Going back to Wolfenstein 3D and the original DOOM 1994, your perspective has always been from your character's eyes and your height has always looked normal except Killzone.

 

[ron_bato]

Could it disappoint? Sure.

Will it? Based on what we've seen, I think it's unlikely, but there are some concerns still (open world quest design, and the story beats already seem to be headed down a all too familiar path). But in terms of the gameplay, technology, mechanics, and systems, I feel like what we've seen and the way the game has been previewed thus far point to an overall solid product with a lot of upside if they nail open world design and story.

Also, like others have said, I'm not sure where you've been OP, the coverage for Horizon has been a lot, in terms of gameplay, story trailers, tech, and lore. The Mass Effect coverage has only really started in the past month.

 

[RexNovis]

Two. And they both underwhelmed me

The first one had me really damn excited. The second one took all that excitement and dashed it against the rocks. What an utter disaster that Bow and Arrow gameplay showcase was. They found a way to make a gigantic uber boss with a pet armored dragon look boring. How is such a thing even possible?!?! T_T

 

[Zukkoyaki]

I played it at PSX and I assure everyone that the controls and moment-to-moment gameplay feel fantastic. So even if the story and characters are underwhelming I'm confident it's going to deliver on the gameplay and fun factor. Honest worst-case scenario I see happening is that this is basically Far Cry in third-person which would still be an awesome game.

 

[Carlius]

Where have you been?

what? he cant worry about a game? 2016 was a year of disappointments in tearms of sequels, so a new ip by GUERILLA which isnt known to be amazing, you know, has people worried. dont see an issue with it,

 

[Samikaze]

I'm not a big fan of Guerilla's work, but I'm looking forward to at least trying this one out.

No reason to have ill will towards a game. The more good games, the better.

 

[Movalpolos]

Two. And they both underwhelmed me

Same here. Well at least we have NieR: Automata to look forward to from Platinum. That demo is amazing by the way.

 

[AuthenticM]

I am scared that it will be. Guerrilla has yet to make a game that is more than average. We'll see. I'm sure it won't be a dumpster fire like No Man's Sky was though; don't worry about that.

 

[xenorevlis]

I played it at PSX and I assure everyone that the controls and moment-to-moment gameplay feel fantastic. So even if the story and characters are underwhelming I'm confident it's going to deliver on the gameplay and fun factor. Honest worst-case scenario I see happening is that this is basically Far Cry in third-person which would still be an awesome game.

I played it at PSX as well, and was underwhelmed by the demo. Limited area, the bison-like robots had trouble navigating, and we couldn't access the main menu so our crafting was limited. I didn't even get to "complete" the demo because the final watcher disappeared.

The way it felt to actually control was great, though. Visually it was very nice as well, if rough around the edges (they were running on regular PS4s but you could see it running on PS4 Pro in the 4K HDR TV area).

 

[xxracerxx]

Two actually.

Two. And they both underwhelmed me

I think I only saw the boring ass boss battle one and some open world gameplay...are those the two you guys are referring to?

 

[Heshinsi]

...however I feel like we've seen more from Mass Effect Andromeda, a game that may not release until Q3 or Q4 2017, than we have out of Horizon Zero Dawn.

WHAT?! Dude are you pulling our leg or what? There have been plenty of gameplay footage as well as hands on demos for Horizon. They've barely shown dick all for ME:A.

 

[BlanketFort]

I'll pre-orders whatever I damn please thank you, it's my money to spend as I please.

My horizon zero dawn pre-order is lock and loaded.

100% do not understand this rebellious attitude regarding paying for something before you have had the chance to identify if it is going to match the marketing the company pushed on the public (because that is their job, to sell and market this product).

You're essentially saying, "I will prepay for the idea of a dish from a random Thai restaurant because I like the idea of Thai food. There are options for me to wait, and say... vet the restaraunt, read reviews, sample a tasting of the food, check out the ambiance, make sure it is up to health code and above all make sure it is a good fit for me. But nope. I will, because it is my right, prepay for this promise of food because I can! Quality control and health be damned!".

Sure buddy. Knock yourself out. It is definitely your right to make uniformed questionable decisions. Facts, who need 'em? Very in vogue these days.

 

[cheesekao]

I think I only saw the boring ass boss battle one and some open world gameplay...are those the two you guys are referring to?

Yep. They were shown in two separate events.

 

[LotusHD]

100% do not understand this rebellious attitude regarding paying for something before you have had the chance to identify if it is going to match the marketing the company pushed on the public (because that is their job, to sell and market this product).

You're essentially saying, "I will prepay for the idea of a dish from a random Thai restaurant because I like the idea of Thai food. There are options for me to wait, and say... vet the restaraunt, read reviews, sample a tasting of the food, check out the ambiance, make sure it is up to health code and above all make sure it is a good fit for me. But nope. I will, because it is my right, prepay for this promise of food because I can! Quality control and health be damned!".

Sure buddy. Knock yourself out. It is definitely your right to make uniformed questionable decisions. Facts, who need 'em? Very in vogue these days.

At least it isn't a season pass. Let people do what they want lol

 

[Smokey]

I got a little christmas money and was looking on amazon to pre order about 2 games. I don't really normally pre order games anymore, outside of a 3DS title or two or a sport game, I don't think i've pre ordered a game since Fallout 4, and I played that for maybe 5 hours until I just didn't want to anymore.

I know I want Persona 5, so as to the second game, it comes down to Tales of Beseria, Nioh and Horizon. Tales looks like the last 4 Tales games so i'll probably pick that up when it drops to $15 in a few months like they normally do. Nioh seems like a game that will completely waste my time, even though I love the way it looks, and even after beating a game like Dark Souls 2, I just don't want to sit and play a game where it takes me 20 minutes just to get past the first enemy or two. I'll probably just end up watching that on twitch and picking it up later in the year for cheap as well.

Horizon Zero Dawn was a game that caught my attention the moment I saw it during E3 (2015?), however I feel like we've seen more from Mass Effect Andromeda, a game that may not release until Q3 or Q4 2017, than we have out of Horizon Zero Dawn.

Is it just me or has there been a lack of gameplay trailers, a lack of information about the story, combat system, or any other elements?

Maybe i'm just out of the loop, maybe all of this stuff came out and I just missed it. But it just seems that this game is allegedly coming out at the end of Feburary and not a whole lot is known. That's kind of scary to me considering how people got screwed over with their expectations of No Man's Sky.

Not i'm not saying that we are being sold a dream that was never going to materialize as what happened with that particular game. But it just seems to me that not much is out there on Horizon.

So am I missing something or are they hiding the ball on this game?

It's absolutely not true that Mass Effect Andromeda has had more exposure than Horizon Zero Dawn. There's been quite a bit of information released on H:ZD.

As for your question of disappointment, it is a real possibility. Visuals have never been Guerilla's weak point. Every Killzone game has looked fantastic. It's the other parts that make up a game where they tend to stumble.

I'm very curious to see how it shakes out. I don't really follow game previews anymore, but from what I've seen it does look promising.

 

[Movalpolos]

I played it at PSX and I assure everyone that the controls and moment-to-moment gameplay feel fantastic. So even if the story and characters are underwhelming I'm confident it's going to deliver on the gameplay and fun factor. Honest worst-case scenario I see happening is that this is basically Far Cry in third-person which would still be an awesome game.

Nice, starting to get hyped here...

 

[cheesekao]

100% do not understand this rebellious attitude regarding paying for something before you have had the chance to identify if it is going to match the marketing the company pushed on the public (because that is their job, to sell and market this product).

You're essentially saying, "I will prepay for the idea of a dish from a random Thai restaurant because I like the idea of Thai food. There are options for me to wait, and say... vet the restaraunt, read reviews, sample a tasting of the food, check out the ambiance, make sure it is up to health code and above all make sure it is a good fit for me. But nope. I will, because it is my right, prepay for this promise of food because I can! Quality control and health be damned!".

Sure buddy. Knock yourself out. It is definitely your right to make uniformed questionable decisions. Facts, who need 'em? Very in vogue these days.

Some people get discounts/rewards points/etc. for pre-ordering and it can add up. I believe Amazon and Best Buy offer 20% discounts or something. There's always the "better safe than sorry" saying but I personally have never been disappointed with any game that I've pre-ordered because I always do my research beforehand. There will always be games that I'm unsure off and those are the kind that I don't pre-order.

 

[Neonep]

There is literally zero reason in pre-ordering games since the threat of them selling out is nonexistent these days. If GTAV didn't sell out the day it came out, no game has any business selling out so close to release that a pre-order would even be a thought leading up to its release.

 

[arturo2666]

I'll pre-orders whatever I damn please thank you, it's my money to spend as I please.

My horizon zero dawn pre-order is lock and loaded.

Not sure why you're getting defensive. The thread is asking for advice and he gave it.

Also isn't it just generally known at this point that the pre-order ecosystem is a industry-wide cancer and not beneficial for consumers at all? Why can't we agree on this?

 

[xxracerxx]

Yep. They were shown in two separate events.

Got ya, thanks.

 

[Reptars Revenge]

On one hand it looks amazing on the other hand the Developers made one good game then ruined everything in the next games. They didn't even make the best Killzone game (the Vita one)

 

[Neiteio]

Nothing I've seen so far (in Horizon) has really captured my imagination, warmed my heart or struck me as having much soul. But it may just be a matter of spending time with it and warming up to its world. I think it could turn out well.

By default, it's a billion times more compelling than Killzone, at least.

 

[Movalpolos]

Not sure why you're getting defensive. The thread is asking for advice and he gave it.

Also isn't it just generally known at this point that the pre-order ecosystem is a industry-wide cancer and not beneficial for consumers at all? Why can't we agree on this?

That wasn't really advice, it was more like barking orders. People will do what they want with their money it's not yours or anyone else's business.

 

[LiquidSolid]

Right, but I like my way of assuming, keeps expectations on check.

Thinking "Well, they hired some people that worked at other companies, now there's zero chance the writing will be bad" is a good way to set yourself up for disappointment.

Better than Guerrilla's previous attempts != Zero chance the writing will be bad

Yes, it might still be bad, but even if it is, I have absolutely no doubt it'll still be better than the plots in all the Killzone's. I'm not trying to insult Killzone, I loved 2 and Liberation, but it was pretty clear there was very little emphasis on the writing in those games (though some of the surrounding stuff, like the backstory and Brian Cox's speeches, were terrific).

The fact that Guerrilla recognised their weak points and made some really smart hirings is one of the main reasons why I'm so excited for Horizon (that and the gameplay and world look awesome). Compare that with David Cage. I like him and I'm excited to play Detroit but he really doesn't seem to recognise that writing is NOT his strong suit.

 

[Producer]

Gameplay looks boring and being open world probably doesnt help. Guerilla always has nice looking games with mediocre gameplay

 

[hydruxo]

The footage, the developer, and Sony's track record for their first-party stuff make it very likely that the game will be mediocre. That said, I don't think the reception will really reflect that and most people will probably like it.

You must be watching some different footage than me because everything I've seen has looked incredible.

 

[LotusHD]

Nothing I've seen so far (in Horizon) has really captured my imagination, warmed my heart or struck me as having much soul. But it may just be a matter of spending time with it and warming up to its world. I think it could turn out well.

All I could say currently is that it looks very pretty. The combat looks cool to an extent as well, but somehow I feel meh about the whole package. In the end, I need the story (and side-quests) to be on point, especially after my recent experience with FFXV. Of course, I can only know this after the game comes out, so I'm waiting for now. Also, I'm somewhat over open world games for the most part.

But I think that's a good way of putting it. The other games I want and am pre-ordering, I know why I want them. For this game however, I definitely need to see what the general consensus is first.

 

[Lord of Ostia]

What on Earth is this

KZ2 was amazing, and I only even found out about it after buying KZ3 and loving it (played with the move + gun.. aw yiss) .... I thought both were well-loved

And KZ: Mercs on Vita is unanimously praised anytime Vita games are discussed btw (loved it)

Mercs was made by a different studio, so you shouldn't be using that to defend Guerilla. That said, Killzone 2 is loved by many and was considered a technical showpiece for the PS3, on top of having good multiplayer. The only way the game could be disappointing based on Guerilla's track record and the footage they've shown is its narrative, but they hired a ton of new writers for that so I'm not super concerned.

 

[arturo2666]

That wasn't really advice, it was more like barking orders. People will do what they want with their money it's not yours or anyone else's business.

Regardless of the tone of the original post, the idea that we can't discuss what someone does with their money in a thread dedicated to asking what they should do with their money is preposterous.

EDIT: by original post, I mean BlanketFort's post.