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[Durante]

This has been pointed out before. The worker claims to have seen a debug software screen on an assembled unit.

Even if that were true, that would only tell you the frequency the chips ran at in that scenario. We already know and have known for a long time that they could potentially run at those frequencies (as in, they are in the design range for the CPU and GPU architecture) -- the important part is what they will actually run at in retail units while playing a game.

There is no way to verify those claims of course until we get leaks of dev docs or units in the wild of course.

Units in the wild wouldn't be sufficient, you'd need a hacked unit in the wild.

 

[Thraktor]

You know, there are some things you can know if you put together a Switch in some factory. Like the name of a button, the size of a chip or the capacity of a battery.

What you can't know from that are clock frequencies, or the hardware architecture revision of the GPU.

The reddit post actually specifies that A73 is speculation on his part based on the test specifying ARM v8, but people seem to have latched onto it. There's no more evidence for it to be A73 than A53 based on that. Ditto with Pascal, which is speculation from the leaker.

I'm more interested in the second device, though, because as you say he could know the size of a chip, and the chip he describes happens to match GP106 very closely.

 

[Theonik]

Even if that were true, that would only tell you the frequency the chips ran at in that scenario. We already know and have known for a long time that they could potentially run at those frequencies (as in, they are in the design range for the CPU and GPU architecture) -- the important part is what they will actually run at in retail units while playing a game.

Units in the wild wouldn't be sufficient, you'd need a hacked unit in the wild.

I am well aware! There is insufficient information to go prove or disprove the claims besides taking them at face value to mean:
1) Final units can clock at that rate, whether that is made available to devs in some form is not known, we know the EG info is quite old at this point and not based on final hardware, hell Nintendo could even pull a PSP and increase the clock after launch.

2) Nintendo is testing these modes on what appears to be final hardware which again could mean anything.

Thankfully I expect we'll know soon after launch either through hacks or dev leaks.

 

[nynt9]

I am well aware! There is insufficient information to go prove or disprove the claims besides taking them at face value to mean:
1) Final units can clock at that rate, whether that is made available to devs in some form is not known, we know the EG info is quite old at this point and not based on final hardware, hell Nintendo could even pull a PSP and increase the clock after launch.

2) Nintendo is testing these modes on what appears to be final hardware which again could mean anything.

Thankfully I expect we'll know soon after launch either through hacks or dev leaks.

Battery life is a concern too. They might be reluctant to let the unit clock at that rate.

 

[Osiris]

1080p60 with 8-bit RGB is just 2.78Gbps. Where are you getting these numbers. Combined with 6CH LPCM at 48KHz 24-bit it's about 2.8Gbps.
e: 3 channels rats.

You forgot 8bit to 10bit encoding, plus a little extra res for H blank and V blank. (check the HDMI spec), and you don't need to add for audio, that's encoded into the H & V blank.

The figures are:

(Horizontal Res + Horizontal Blank) * (Vertical Res + Vertical Blank) * Frequency * Bit Depth * Channels

Or

(1920+280) * (1080+45) * 60 * 10 * 3 = 4.455 Gbps
(Check the quoted bandwidth for most HDMI cables to see 4.95Gbps quoted everywhere too, guaranteed to have just enough B/W for a 1080P@60Hz signal, It's known as the "Guaranteed Standard Speed").

Which is exactly the figure quoted by the HDMI Org for a 1080P@60Hz signal over HDMI.

 

[The Hermit]

ok

this thread got too crazy too fast

It would be awesome. Would they allow to connect to our own PCs though?

 

[Donnie]

You know, there are some things you can know if you put together a Switch in some factory. Like the name of a button, the size of a chip or the capacity of a battery.

What you can't know from that are clock frequencies, or the hardware architecture revision of the GPU.

If he made up clock speeds why not make up number of cores, bus width ect ect?

I mean I can maybe see these speeds being a test for stability at the lower final speed (though could equally just be final clocks after testing final chips), but I doubt he made these clock speeds up (they're even in line with Eurogamers clock speeds as far as ratios go).

 

[Skittzo0413]

The reddit post actually specifies that A73 is speculation on his part based on the test specifying ARM v8, but people seem to have latched onto it. There's no more evidence for it to be A73 than A53 based on that. Ditto with Pascal, which is speculation from the leaker.

Wait, so the leaker himself explicitly said the A73 (or A72) piece is his own speculation? I thought the OP stated that there was some power draw reason why it couldn't be A57 based on his info. If that's all 100% speculation then that certainly changes the picture for me.

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

I've been saying since the last Switch spec thread that offering an add on SCD for 4k gaming was logical. While Nintendo do not want to get into a specs war with Sony or MS there is no harm in offering different options for a subset of their customers who want a higher end experience to go along with their new 4K HDTV's.

The more hardware options Nintendo offer, the more hardware they will sell.

If this SCD is real then the real question is why Nintendo didn't outline their plans at the Switch presentation. If they reveal it at E3 I could see a lot of early adopters being extremely pissed off at being asked to spend another $100-$200 on an add on to get the best experience much like some PS4 owners were pissed off about the very existence of PS4 Pro.

 

[Skittzo0413]

I've been saying since the last Switch spec thread that offering an add on SCD for 4k gaming was logical. While Nintendo do not want to get into a specs war with Sony or MS there is no harm in offering different options for a subset of their customers who want a higher end experience to go along with their new 4K HDTV's.

The more hardware options Nintendo offer, the more hardware they will sell.

If this SCD is real then the real question is why Nintendo didn't outline their plans at the Switch presentation. If they reveal it at E3 I could see a lot of early adopters being extremely pissed off at being asked to spend another $100-$200 on an add on to get the best experience much like some PS4 owners were pissed off about the very existence of PS4 Pro.

The big difference there is that you still have to buy the base unit- it's an upgrade, not a replacement. That makes the upgrade cost lower and would likely be less of a point of contention than the PS4 Pro where you basically toss out your old console and replace it with a new one.

Again, assuming this exists (which I personally am not yet).

 

[Donnie]

Wait, so the leaker himself explicitly said the A73 (or A72) piece is his own speculation? I thought the OP stated that there was some power draw reason why it couldn't be A57 based on his info. If that's all 100% speculation then that certainly changes the picture for me.

If we believe the clock speed (1.78Ghz) then no it couldn't be A57. Even on 16nm it would still use 2.7w, which is nearly half of Switch's total power draw in handheld mode.

A72 at 1.78Ghz on 16nm uses around 1.9w, which is only slightly more than A57 uses at 1Ghz. A73 at 1.78Ghz would be around 1.5w.

 

[Ocarina_117]

I feel the SCD component, should it exist, will be a LONG ways off.

Zelda in 4k though would be AMAZING. Sony esque patch supports for old games to improve the draw distance.

 

[Skittzo0413]

If we believe the clock speed then no it couldn't be A57. Even on 16nm it would still use 2.7w, which is nearly half of Switch's total power draw in handheld mode.

Right now, I'm personally of the impression that he accurately saw those clock speeds in a stress test, but the final clock speeds will be those that DF has reported.

If the A57s were run at 1.78GHz just as a stress test, does that still remove them from contention? I don't think so at this point...

 

[Ryoku]

Quick question. Do we know if the joycons are physically connected to the tablet/grip?
As in, are they still operating in wireless modes despite being attached to the thing?
I ask this because I do not see any pins/contacts on the joycons themselves--nor on the tablet's sides.

EDIT:

I mean, if the tablet and charger grip do charge the joycons, there has to be contacts... At the very least for charging. But I still don't see them.

 

[Theonik]

Battery life is a concern too. They might be reluctant to let the unit clock at that rate.

Yes but we don't know at this point hell sky's the limit on the dock but cpu bumps are less likely. Also possible that games can decide which mode to set.

You forgot 8bit to 10bit encoding, plus a little extra res for H blank and V blank. (check the HDMI spec), and you don't need to add for audio, that's encoded into the H & V blank.

The figures are:

(Horizontal Res + Horizontal Blank) * (Vertical Res + Vertical Blank) * Frequency * Bit Depth * Channels

Or

(1920+280) * (1080+45) * 60 * 10 * 3 = 4.455 Gbps
(Check the quoted bandwidth for most HDMI cables to see 4.95Gbps quoted everywhere too, guaranteed to have just enough B/W for a 1080P@60Hz signal, It's known as the "Guaranteed Standard Speed").

Which is exactly the figure quoted by the HDMI Org for a 1080P@60Hz signal over HDMI.

Why are you assuming 10 bit per channel? This is all irrelevant though as this isn't implemented over USB but uses the USB-c physical interface alongside USB data.

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

Also if these SCD devkits existed, surely EG and other leakers would have been talking about it by now ?

 

[JaseMath]

Can somebody explain the OP to me like I'm 5? A Foxconn employee leaked some legit things—I got that. But now there's a belief that the Switch is some kind of spec monster?

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Also if these SCD devkits existed, surely EG and other leakers would have been talking about it by now ?

Other leakers have pretty much stopped saying things after the event for some reason, despite us not knowing tons of details

 

[Pokemaniac]

Can somebody explain the OP to me like I'm 5? A Foxconn employee leaked some legit things—I got that. But now there's a belief that the Switch is some kind of spec monster?

Not the Switch itself, but a potential SCD.

 

[Jimmyfenix]

Can somebody explain the OP to me like I'm 5? A Foxconn employee leaked some legit things—I got that. But now there's a belief that the Switch is some kind of spec monster?

No

 

[Donnie]

Right now, I'm personally of the impression that he accurately saw those clock speeds in a stress test, but the final clock speeds will be those that DF has reported.

If the A57s were run at 1.78GHz just as a stress test, does that still remove them from contention? I don't think so at this point...

Well that's one possibility, I'm not sure why you'd need to run a A57 at 1.78Ghz as a stress test when its a very solid well known CPU that has been running in many devices at 2Ghz for a while now. Still I'm not expert on the way Foxconn or Nintendo decide to test their devices..

The other possibility is that back in July/August the final GPU hadn't been fully tested. So Nintendo set a conservative clock speed for devs to aim for at launch. After testing they set a higher speed, which would also explain the claim of improved performance dev kits in October.

Well at least this leak coming back is keeping things interesting

 

[Skittzo0413]

Can somebody explain the OP to me like I'm 5? A Foxconn employee leaked some legit things—I got that. But now there's a belief that the Switch is some kind of spec monster?

No not at all. There's speculation that they produced 2000 prototypes/devkits of a future revision or add-on which could fit the bill of a smart dock that could allow the Switch to render at 4k.

This add-on likely wouldn't release for quite some time, maybe a year or two, if legit.

 

[Spinluck]

I need this on a shirt.

 

[Osiris]

Yes but we don't know at this point hell sky's the limit on the dock but cpu bumps are less likely. Also possible that games can decide which mode to set.


Why are you assuming 10 bit per channel? This is all irrelevant though as this isn't implemented over USB but uses the USB-c physical interface alongside USB data.

I'm not assuming anything, like I said, read the spec (The HDMI 1.3 docs specifically, if they are beyond your understanding, settle for Wikipedia) - 30bit (10bit per channel) is the minimum supported by the HDMI 1.3 spec.

Any 8bit per channel source is encoded to 10bits per channel before being transmitted by HDMI, and then decoded to 8bits per channel by the receiving display/device if & when necessary.

 

[KingBroly]

I probably would bite on a 4K dock with a 1060 equivalent tbh. Would cost like $249 on its own though.

Honestly, I think the Dock is going to be a Universal kind of thing going forward.

 

[rekameohs]

I know people were confused as to why the tablet even needed active cooling when the Eurogamer specs came out. Would this offer any explanation to that?

 

[Type_Raver]

In addition to the HDMI spec, we have to keep in mind that the signal is received through the USB-C path, which is 10Gbps. So in reality this would be the potential output possible via HDMI 1.4, which has the same bandwidth. Thats not to say you wont have HDR support, but simply stating the limits of this pipeline.

 

[Proelite]

Thraktor, let me blow your mind.

What happens if you downclock a GTX 1060 to 768mhz? You get 1.77 teraflops.

1770 / 384 (Switch docked gpu) ~ 4.6094

720p to 1080p is a 2.25 time bump in resolution. Switch provided 2.5 the power in dock mode. An extra of 11%.

1080p to 4k is a 4 time bump in resolution. The SCD would provide 4.6094 times the power. An extra of 15%.

 

[ShadowFox08]

Its practically guaranteed we'll get a revised switch console and/or an SCD. We'll get a switch with a smaller node with more battery life and maybe a small boost in power It will be like the switch "slim." Since Nintendo has SCDs in their patents to boost the main console in dock mode, there's a decent chance it can happen. Also we have to consider new 3ds XL which had a significantly better CPU, RAM, and better battery life than OG 3ds(even though it was a bit in vain outside the larger screen and battery life increase), so Nintendo isn't new to this.

Lets also remember that Nintendo has said multiple times that the NX/Switch will be a part of a family of devices.

 

[Doctre81]

LOL the speculation never ends

 

[Gleethor]

I know someone involved with the scd, I should show him this and see what he says lol

Wat

 

[Pie and Beans]

I want to see this SCD also be Nintendo's VR solution with a 1080p screen in it, but it set fire to peoples eyes due to it also containing a fucking 1060.

 

[Proelite]

I want to see this SCD also be Nintendo's VR solution with a 1080p screen in it, but it set fire to peoples eyes due to it also containing a fucking 1060.

2 years into the future, a 1060 rivaling GPU would draw less than 50w.

 

[Spiral Insanity]

This is just crazy.

 

[Rebel Leader]

I don't understand anything that going on anymore

 

[RK128]

Yeah I'm there with you. The one thing we should be taking from everything is Nintendo has a modern system that can run modern engines. That simple that is where they should be and with that being said.....

You guys are killing me. From the beginning when switch was announced by Nintendo to be a hybrid I saw their future. This "SHOULD" be the future and end game for nintendo. What I mean is this is the last design they should have for a console. Imagine the switch as it has been revealed. Imagine Christmas this year (I don't think they should wait long) release the SCD dock that enables 4k gaming launching with Mario odyssey switch first Mario game in 4k for the holidays. Release patches for zelda bumping it up, Mario kart, etc. Then 5 years later you can release a new switch "tablet" (1080p screen) rinse and repeat. Everyone involved (Nintendo and Nvidia) are happy. There is a reason this "partnership" with them has been described by Nvidia ceo as something that could last 20 years. To me this makes perfect sense and if nintendo doesn't do this.... THEY ARE IDIOTS! It keeps them always in the game and you have your standard controller and joy cons set. So in reality even though consumers will be paying the price to upgrade it is all they are paying for basically what pc players do all the time. I'm excited but nervous because only Nintendo could be sitting on this revolutionary concept and decide not to do it fucking up.

Then the base switch should be cheaper and whenever this upgraded thing happens, they are inexpensive.

I hate hearing that the base system is releasing and if this rumor is true, then I'm baffled they didn't detail this during the announcement. It would ensure people know that 'This will be getting updated every year'. That would still upset people but at least they would be up front about this upgrade plan.

This honestly reminds me of the 32X or SEGA CD.....and I shouldn't be thinking that. Hope this rumor is wrong.

 

[Pie and Beans]

2 years into the future, a 1060 rivaling GPU would draw less than 50w.

VR headsets don't tend to have any GPU's in them for a reason. At most its a whole smartphone with it's less intense solution to graphics pushing.

 

[Skittzo0413]

I want to see this SCD also be Nintendo's VR solution with a 1080p screen in it, but it set fire to peoples eyes due to it also containing a fucking 1060.

I don't know how many times it needs to be stated that this 1060 (or custom equivalent) would be in the dock only. This new dock would be the SCD which could run Switch games at 4k.

This isn't a hard concept to grasp.

 

[Pie and Beans]

I don't know how many times it needs to be stated that this 1060 (or custom equivalent) would be in the dock only. This new dock would be the SCD which could run Switch games at 4k.

This isn't a hard concept to grasp.

Well this totally legit rumour is saying it has a screen, so settle down son.

 

[jax]

This is ALL SPECULATION, but I would be very very surprised if this wasn't actively in development as far as the "SCD" goes, especially if these rumors are true:

Spoiler

While viewing Rogue One, there was a scene in that film that made it all click together for me. I was trying to think of what docking the Switch reminded me of... when I realized the Switch is basically a cartridge itself! The Switch dock is top-loaded, not unlike the Famicom/SNES. So what do you get when you take a Switch tablet, remove the screen and battery, and fill up all that space with a 1060?

Switch+

It's not the dock that's the powerup, I believe it will be an accessory for the dock.

Enabling dual screen gameplay like the Wii U.

Enhancing the graphics tenfold.

Tabletless SKU?

Acting as a base so 8 Switch players can also use the TV as sort of asymmetric gameplay/spectator mode?

Enabling VR?

Priced right at around $200-$300, could this be the answer to make the Switch more competitive with the PS4 Pro/Scorpio?

 

[lwilliams3]

2 years into the future, a 1060 rivaling GPU would draw less than 50w.

Too soon for another thread. Lol. This is some interesting stuff, it we need to find more people to vet this info if it's true.

 

[WarpathDC]

*Grabs tin foil/makes hat*

The new pascal architecture in the Nvidia shield console streaming device allows for local and cloud play. The SCD could be a local "cloud" for the tablet, hence rendering enhanced alpha effects, AA, TF, etc on the 720p display while docked mode would just broadcast to the hdmi-connected display at up to 4k (more likely 1440p) w/hdr for games and 4k/hdrnetflix etc.

*Takes off hat*
Given that the 'dumb dock' is 90, I would see the SCD matching the cost at least of the core switch unit, making it all but an enthusiast add-on with more complexity on the devs part to create games with settings that would make them run and look their best on either option, a thing PSpro devs are lamenting. More options are great, but considering Nintendo is charging stupid prices for the accessories as it is, has a only a few tone-deaf games at launch outside of BotW, I still think nintendo is batshit crazy and going to ride it out for a couple years with the existing hardware, with the unicorn SCD as a potential back pocket card they can pull out when the hardware is having similar LTD #'s as the wii-u down the line.

 

[jax]

The main reason I don't see the Dock actually having the increased power is everyone will already have a perfectly capable dock, having something to plug into the dock on the other hand makes so much sense to me.

 

[Mr. Pointy]

I think I posted something about a 1060 powered SCD last year. Glad to see Nintendo are taking my advice.

/s

 

[Skittzo0413]

Well this totally legit rumour is saying it has a screen, so settle down son.

It specifically mentions that it's a devkit though. There is no possible way a portable device of this size will have a 1060 as its GPU, so it's obvious that the devkit has a screen so that you don't need multiple types of devkits to develop a Switch game.

The final SCD, if it actually exists (which I'm certainly not convinced of) will obviously be a stationary box, likely a second type of dock.

 

[WarpathDC]

The main reason I don't see the Dock actually having the increased power is everyone will already have a perfectly capable dock, having something to plug into the dock on the other hand makes so much sense to me.

This could be an option w/ USB C but likely for form factor it would just be a new dock

 

[bachikarn]

I mean, if devkits are already out with an SCD, shouldn't this thing be coming out relatively soon? Like early next year?

 

[Vena]

I mean, if devkits are already out with an SCD, shouldn't this thing be coming out relatively soon? Like early next year?

It could just be test cases.

This supposed dock would costs several (3-5) hundreds of dollars, lol. I can't see it hitting retail for at least a year if not two.

 

[jax]

This could be an option w/ USB C but likely for form factor it would just be a new dock

But if it's a dock, that doesn't re-enable dual screen play. So many great Wii U ideas shelved. Not to mention DS/3DS VC.

I could see a tabletless SKU with Smash Bros sold with a dock. (Incentive to buy a tablet later) or vice versa. (Just the cartridge upgrade with Smash and maybe some Joy-Con)

And bundles with the tablet + cartridge + dock for $500 (PS4 pro, Scorpio rival)

 

[TAS]

This is ALL SPECULATION, but I would be very very surprised if this wasn't actively in development as far as the "SCD" goes, especially if these rumors are true:

Spoiler

While viewing Rogue One, there was a scene in that film that made it all click together for me. I was trying to think of what docking the Switch reminded me of... when I realized the Switch is basically a cartridge itself! The Switch dock is top-loaded, not unlike the Famicom/SNES. So what do you get when you take a Switch tablet, remove the screen and battery, and fill up all that space with a 1060?

Switch+

It's not the dock that's the powerup, I believe it will be an accessory for the dock.

Enabling dual screen gameplay like the Wii U.

Enhancing the graphics tenfold.

Tabletless SKU?

Acting as a base so 8 Switch players can also use the TV as sort of asymmetric gameplay/spectator mode?

Enabling VR?

Priced right at around $200-$300, could this be the answer to make the Switch more competitive with the PS4 Pro/Scorpio?

Damn..that's actually a brilliant theory! :O