Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
Banjo-Kazooie, Xenoblade Chronicles and PoP PS360 also have an open world design but you cannot commit crimes there (other than killing the enemies, which arguably is self-defense).
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Ashley Judd calls out gaming industry in TEDtalk for hypocritical stance on GamerGate
- Thread starter Linkura
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I think he meant "sandbox" and in that case, you're free to do whatever the game allows you to do. If you compare Watch Dogs, GTA and Saint's Row, you'll see a common thread there.
palpabl_purpura
Member
These arent comments most gamers would make, simply because theres no rationale behind them. But you assume i said shes not a gamer because shes female, which i never said. This is of course not rational in of itself. Like i said, she is entitled to her opinion. Ive said this several times in fact, but that does not excluse ignorance on the issue. To say that the industry makes billions on gamers where the player is encouraged to and rewarded for unilaterally/disproportionally targeting women (compared to men) to commit deplorable acts is just false. To say this is widespread amd commonplace in the industry is 100 percent false.
Someone asked why people tend to focus on GTA when there are many more games in existence, and the reason why is because it's the top story-focused franchise in gaming--and by a pretty large margin. Considering how much it dominates sales charts it's pretty irresponsible to ignore it and its cultural impact. [edit: GTA5 grossed billions; it broke a billion in something like three days]
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
It's still a design choice that is independent of the gameplay style. Minecraft and Banjo Nuts & Bolts are also quite sandboxy but you cannot commit and crimes. The common thing between WD, GTA and SR that makes hideous crimes possible is in particular their violent setting, not their free form gameplay.
palpabl_purpura
Member
Wrong issue. At least according to op, Judd's comments was about software depiction of misogyny and maiming womening in game being commonplace. This is completely different from sexism within the workplace.
She is saying that the games industry have profited from creating entertainment products that use women's bodies for violence and sexualization. Which it demonstratively has.
For a long time: (CW: sexualized violence)
palpabl_purpura
Member
She is saying that the games industry have profited from creating entertainment products that use women's bodies for violence and sexualization. Which it demonstratively has.
For a long time: (CW: sexualized violence)
You ve showed me ads for whatever reason im not sure. But the comments pertained to physically maiming women in the digital space being commonplace (such that billions of dollars are made in profit). Im not sure these ads can support her position. If you want to make the argument that the industry has a history of using ads of a questionable nature, then okay maybe.
Once again for the software examples, you can commit the same acts against men. You really havent supported the argument that women are the disproportionally the target of deplorable acts
Jesus you guys are really nitpicking every single argument. What specific example has to be shown before you realize its going on at all? Which examples don't count? Which do?
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
You're missing me the point by trying to argue about semantics.
Adam_Vania
Banned
clearly they aren't being mamed, just decapitated. TOTALLY DIFFFERENT.
You 're right, but this ad isn't about violence. This is a joke about a little SM. One of the oldest jokes in this regard.She is saying that the games industry have profited from creating entertainment products that use women's bodies for violence and sexualization. Which it demonstratively has.
For a long time: (CW: sexualized violence)
Those are actually very tasteful sexual adds. Both men and woman are shown as equal and its more romantic than sexual. The second one could even simply be seen as chilling in bed.
The very fact that they're using this for the marketing is actually even worse.
This is what the audience see 1rst and what they experience 1rst of the product they THEN go and buy because the marketing was effective.
The fact that the pieces of marketing were not even harmful enough to cause these products to be horrible failures tells a lot about how the market view the industry and vice versa.
It's actually way worse than if Mortal Kombat only had fatalities that only worked on female characters!
Adam_Vania
Banned
except the man gets to play gameboy while woman hangs on his shoulder and doesn't get to play, demonstrating her main purpose in the ad is literal arm candy
Click on the Youtube video that I linked. Here it is once again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5i_RPr9DwMA
palpabl_purpura
Member
The arguments must be scrutinized because the acusations are so serious. Women are not not not routinely the target of violence or other deplorable acts disproportionally comapred to men within the digital space. Nobody can make the argument that this is widespread or commonplace within the industry
The 1rst ad is certainly the only one I'd say that's "tasteful" if I would even call it that.
The 2nd could have worked if it was paired with another where the girl was playing.
I guess the marketing team that did it wasn't very good.
Yeah better provide receipt for that.
It's hilariously easy to point to numerous examples that shows differently.
palpabl_purpura
Member
Im waiting
You're making the claim, you get to prove your point.
the opposing viewpoint have already shown you their receipts.
Is it perfect? No. Another one, where a woman is playing with the GameBody, would have been great. The Nintendo of today properly had made this missing one.
But other then this, normally you would have the stereotype, that the woman would have been made at him. You know, because woman "don't get videogames". But in this add everything looks very carefree. Visual both are the same, have the same space and act similar in bed. The only reason, she is on his shoulder, is properly, because you can't show female breast.
palpabl_purpura
Member
Just tell me. I can't view youtube here.
Adam_Vania
Banned
lol otm. considering that GamerGate is in the title, let's have them demonstrate a GamerGate-level campaign of shit and hatred with the genders reversed. that is ONE example. can u match that? if not, this is a baseless claim.
Damn, you're pretty demanding.
Here's the full transcript: http://wp.me/pwSlB-5mK
or read this thread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=957274
palpabl_purpura
Member
Sorry i dont make the policy. Ill look this over
Adam_Vania
Banned
lol @ starting from the base of a bad stereotype and comparing it to that. give me a break. i mean let's give them an award for not having her also folding the laundry
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Tell me you're joking.
Just from the description :
Alternative source with a bit more text
https://feministfrequency.com/video/women-as-background-decoration-part-2/
I would advise against going through a 3rd party to describe it for obvious reasons.
This is advertising we're talking about here.
It most certainly have been made with this thought in mind.
Advertising is incredibly sexist most of the time
palpabl_purpura
Member
I dont think this supports the argument. In just about every game mentioned, violent acts against men are disproportionally high. In fact witcher 2/3 has virtually no female enemies. Every impalement decapitation etc is almost exclusively committed against men. So to say that women are disproportionately targeted for deplorable acts and maiming is 100 perecent false. It simply doesnt happen on a regular basis
Funyarinpa
Member
LMFAO
palpabl_purpura
Member
How so? Literally that is what she said. Now we are responsible for shepherding the words of others?
How comes these threads are the only threads to have pedantic grammar nazis where the form is more important than the content?
You do know that she didn't get on stage pronounced that sentence and then called it a day?
You do know that she didn't get on stage pronounced that sentence and then called it a day?
Why not read the article in the OP and watch the linked video in the article rather than argue over one part of a much larger point she was making?
On a broader point the dismissive BS I've seen in this thread is one of the reasons gamergate made so much initial headway, it's pretty fricking depressing that that kind of attitude is still so prevalent over 2 years later.
Judd isn't perfect, so we shouldn't take her whole concept of gaming as gospel.
Though what we can agree is, yes, women are overly sexualized in gaming.
Violence though, if we really want equality,
men and women should be able to get maimed equally in the virtual space.
If not, there's always going to be this air that one sex has to be treated different than the other.
Though what we can agree is, yes, women are overly sexualized in gaming.
Violence though, if we really want equality,
men and women should be able to get maimed equally in the virtual space.
If not, there's always going to be this air that one sex has to be treated different than the other.
Saucycarpdog
Member
You're talking to a medium filled with people whose emotional stability is dependent on which console is doing better.
There's a shit load of internalization going on in gaming.
palpabl_purpura
Member
The issue is the comprehensive treatment of women in the digital space of video games vs that of me (incorporating violence, sexual abuse,etc). This is relavent because Judd mentions both misogyny and maiming. The comprehensive treatment of women in the digital space of videogaming is certainly not worse than that of men.
You are really grasping at straws if you are taking offence to this.
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
Even though I agree this ad most likely targets male buyers over female buyers, I absolute cannot see how one can list this under the headline of sexual violence. It is at most mildly sexual and not violent at all. Tageting males with commercials is legitimate and does not devalue anyone.
palpabl_purpura
Member
Agreed. How can a man be regarded as having arm candy when the depiction is within the privacy of the bedroom, and not in public? Arm candy is meant for others to see, correct?
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
The consumer can see it though, so in principle it could be arm candy, though I don't agree that this is what is the intention here.
I'm sorry I wasn't clear.
This ad doesn't have violence at all.
This campaign could have been miles better but I don't think it's fair to lump it with the others. It can be used in a larger point to discuss exploitation and such but not violence, no.
It's only 1 picture in a gallery of 7 and we're not peer reviewing a study in Nature and it most certainly had been made with the idea that the girl was arm candy in that case.
It hasn't been made in the last 10 years so it's pretty safe to say that in the larger context of advertisement that's how it was made.
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
I think the intention here was the following
1. Give a nice image of good looking (often associated with successful) adults, in order to target an older demographic (teens and up)
2. Associate the GBA SP with nice time with your partner
3. Hint at the idea that maybe the second best thing to do in the bedroom with your significant other may not be playing GBA SP, but having sex instead.
I agree that the third angle is targeting males more than females, in absence of a symmetric ad, but I do not agree that it is malicious or devaluing women.
palpabl_purpura
Member
Again i dont think there is the understanding. You are able to committ appauling acts against men in these games. The key is disproportionally negative comprehensive mistreatment of women that is commonplace within the digital space of video games.
We're going vastly off topic with this ad I feel.
I don't disagree with the point you are making, this is pretty mucht the 1rst ad.
This ad however doesn't exist in a vaccum.
If we add the context of when this was created and the reason it was created, it's clear that the 2nd picture is about arm candy while the dude play his GBA.
Again for that reading to get through you need the context of general advertisement circa 200X.
Yes because that's the real tragedy here, the poor gamers and not the fact that a loud and obnoxious minority of gamers have such a sense of entitlement that they respond to any criticism of the medium with threats of violence, rape and death. Poor poor gamers, if only people would enver try and critique games then everything would be fine.
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