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[BlastProcessing]

Basic control input is not a gimmick. That said, there's nothing wrong with a gimmick as long as the focus is the game. All too often it's been gimmick first, game 2nd.

Too many of those comments sound like that. "I want players to feel something soft". Yeah, that sounds like a fun game.

I disagree. I am just old enough to remember people being dismissive of the D-Pad as a gimmick. People really liked sticks and felt that the D-pad was too far removed from gaming's arcade roots. They said the D-Pad was something that was made to look slick in pictures and that's it. It might be able to handle Nintendo's simple stuff, but would never be able to handle real games.

My brother scoffed and said that you could never play Pac-Man on it so it was worthless.

Everything new thing is a gimmick, even basic control schemes. When Apple introduced the mouse, which I think you would agree is a basic control scheme, it was widely panned as a gimmick.

Indeed, the word gimmick isn't by definition negative, it's actually encouraged in Japanese development.

In western game dev, you hear people use the word "hook" instead of gimmick. It means the same thing, but doesn't have the negative stigma.

 

[ggx2ac]

Seriously most of the people will probably turn off rumble to keep battery longer and HD rumble is one of the most ridiculous marketing terms i have ever heard of.

HD Rumble has worked really well as a buzzword because people can immediately understand what it means even though they haven't used it hands-on yet.

 

[BGBW]

Life-like softness ;__;

 

[Phil Fish]

Marvelous – Kenichiro Takaki (Senran Kagura producer)

THOUGHTS ON PRESENTATION

I’ve actually known about the Switch’s features since its early stages and I’m personally looking forward to it.

INTERESTING ASPECTS OF SWITCH

Definitely the HD Rumble. I want to use it to have people feel softness (laughs). I already have something planned, and am currently polishing it up so that it can be realized. Games are all about what ‘feels good’, so I want to create a brand new experience specifically for the Nintendo Switch.

Get fucking hype! God bless Kenichiro Takaki!

 

[wild wild rice]

Fucking psyched for Suda's game. Nintendo! Cough up the dough! And send some of your folks by to add a little polish, but not too much.

 

[Zedark]

HD Rumble has worked really well as a buzzword because people can immediately understand what it means even though they haven't used it hands-on yet.

On the other hand, understanding the exact reach of what "HD rumble" means remains elusive for anyone who has not experienced it. In that regard, I completely understand people being sceptical about it and maybe dismissing it as the next PR talk feature: good for buzzwords but not actual gaming applications.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

Yoko TAro has teh right idea, being able to play vertical shooters would be great.

 

[BlastProcessing]

Seriously most of the people will probably turn off rumble to keep battery longer and HD rumble is one of the most ridiculous marketing terms i have ever heard of.

If it uses the technology I assume it does, HD Rumble will use significantly less batter than traditional rumble will. Not sure how much battery you will even save turning it off.

Do you have another word or phrase that could better describe higher fidelity haptics? Apple calls theirs the "Taptic Engine", do you prefer that? I think HD Rumble gets the point across very simply.

 

[Kyuur]

I feel bad for Yoko Taro, poor guy :lol:

 

[daxgame]

I'll take Resident Evil 4 with HD rumble.

Capcom better replicate well that feeling of chainsaw on my neck though!

 

[ryechu]

Surprised at devs saying it's cheap. While one if my guesses for the console was $300, that doesn't really strike me as cheap. That said, there is a lot of tech in there so I'm not too angry

Likely a combination of their being rich, the price of the console in japan is low compared to abroad, and the fact that these people are keenly aware of the tech and build quality of the switch.

While people here are disappointed in its power, I'm still impressed that the system is 300g. I have a decent PC, and consume a relatively high amount of tech, but that doesn't mean that I yawn at tech just because its a few years from the cutting edge. I'm starting to wonder where Gaf is getting all their powerful tablets and mobile devices from, in order to be so disappointed in specs. How many people actually own a shield?

Of course, I assume its because people are busy playing word association games ("its a home console") and lingering how its many times weaker than ps4 which came out in 2012. Yes, its much weaker than the console that is much weaker than my 4 year old graphics card. But its also 300g and 1.4cm thick and half of its volume is probably taken up by a battery. To say its a just "home console" in spite of those facts is a bit disingenuous.

Sure, you can argue that it should have been a home console, and they should stop advertising it as a home console, but thats an entirely different argument, and has nothing to do with what it physically is.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

One joycon on my shoulder and another in my hand....

Wow lol where yo dad at ?

 

[Sesha]

Learning more about the HD rumble has made me excited about the potential, as a lover of games like DMC and RE4. It could revolutionize game feel.

 

[On Demand]

Why is HD rumble a selling point? I can't think of any games I play where rumble factors into my enjoyment of the game.

Same. It's why I shut it off. All rumble means to me is reduced battery times.

Think of it as the HDR of vibration.

 

[The Hermit]

I disagree. I am just old enough to remember people being dismissive of the D-Pad as a gimmick. People really liked sticks and felt that the D-pad was too far removed from gaming's arcade roots. They said the D-Pad was something that was made to look slick in pictures and that's it. It might be able to handle Nintendo's simple stuff, but would never be able to handle real games.

My brother scoffed and said that you could never play Pac-Man on it so it was worthless.

Everything new thing is a gimmick, even basic control schemes. When Apple introduced the mouse, which I think you would agree is a basic control scheme, it was widely panned as a gimmick.



In western game dev, you hear people use the word "hook" instead of gimmick. It means the same thing, but doesn't have the negative stigma.

Great post.

People try to downplay inovation because it's Nintendo ( and I guess they should have used something else instead of the freaking cow game).

I can't wait! Also the price was seen as something positive to the devs, which is surprising. I guess the so called "insiders" are to blame in creating expectation. People were too hanged on Laura's tweeter.

 

[Dark Cloud]

Wow lol where yo dad at ?

Lmao I just realized that's OrbitalJr and not Orbital.

 

[Sora the Cat]

Price is indeed really good when you consider the tech inside the box.

 

[Kingpin Rogers]

HD Rumble has worked really well as a buzzword because people can immediately understand what it means even though they haven't used it hands-on yet.

I still have no idea what it actually means or what it can do for me.

 

[Cerium]

I still have no idea what it actually means or what it can do for me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_6rMa9_UvQ

 

[jblank83]

I still have no idea what it actually means or what it can do for me.

Motors that produce different sensations.

So much so that Mario Kart can simulate feelings for different terrains. You can feel a metal slime vs a soft slime in DQ Heroes. Think of the twang of a bow string, then a sword sliding out of its scabbard, then the sword clanging against metal armor.

It's the future!

 

[asagami_]

Yoko TAro has teh right idea, being able to play vertical shooters would be great.

Or for a DS/3DS VC

But the actual layout don't allow this

 

[Janet Restrepo]

Price is indeed really good when you consider the tech inside the box.

It really isn't. And customers are going to see it sitting next to more powerful competing consoles that are cheaper and also have huge third party titles that the Switch won't get. It's going to be a tough sell at 300. It's going to be a tougher sell if they continue to think they can sell their peripherals at those moronic prices.

 

[Cerium]

It really isn't.

What makes you a better judge of that than the developers in the OP?

 

[ckaneo]

HD rumble will be the future of all game controllers. Im not sure why people are calling it a gimmick. It's really just the next evolution of rumble to me. I think Xbox and Playstation will adopt it eventually.

That said, im sure it wont be used for anything other than new rumble sensations. Games centered around it like 1-2 switch probably wont take off.

 

[Dark Cloud]

It really isn't. And customers are going to see it sitting next to more powerful competing consoles that are cheaper and also have huge third party titles that the Switch won't get. It's going to be a tough sell at 300. It's going to be a tougher sell if they continue to think they can sell their peripherals at those moronic prices.

Who are you? Are you a developer? Did you see the tech? Just stop man. Seriously stop with the bs war. It's not always about power ffs. You're not a dev. These are developers who are working or seen the Switch.

Even Todd Howard is ecstatic for the Switch and he's never liked Nintendo.

 

[ckaneo]

It really isn't. And customers are going to see it sitting next to more powerful competing consoles that are cheaper and also have huge third party titles that the Switch won't get. It's going to be a tough sell at 300. It's going to be a tougher sell if they continue to think they can sell their peripherals at those moronic prices.

The price is fine, considering it comes with the tech filled joycons and a console in handheld form (smaller is more expensive)

I can see the argument for wanting it to cost less, we all want that. But I dont see how the technology doesnt warrant 300

 

[Jintor]

Feels like the most consistent comment is "Damn that's cheap for what I know is inside there"

 

[Dark Cloud]

Feels like the most consistent comment is "Damn that's cheap for what I know is inside there"

Sounds like Nintendo paid them to say that.

/s 😂

 

[MouldyK]

Even Todd Howard is ecstatic for the Switch and he's never liked Nintendo.

I agree the price is fine...

...but I don't think using Todd Howard is a worthy namedrop as he is prone to hyping things up which lead nowhere.

 

[Pandy]

HD rumble sounds cool. like if a roach crawls up your arm you'll feel the realism.

Haven't been through the thread, but did anyone else read this and think of Eternal Darkness?
Psycologic horror type games on Switch are going to be next level stuff.

 

[Hattori]

maybe a certain 17th century mathematician is inside one of these contraptions 🤔

Spoiler

most likely not, but it's nice to dream

 

[asagami_]

By the way, I'm so happy see enthusiasm from japanese devs for the Switch. They know this console is for them and the japanese gamers, and any handheld gamer in general.

The fact Switch has mobile technology + modern tools would allow devs who are only developing in mobile plattforms could approach to the Swicth.

 

[Dark Cloud]

I agree the price is fine...

...but I don't think using Todd Howard is a worthy namedrop as he is prone to hyping things up which lead nowhere.

He's never hyped a Nintendo system up before. He even said it was the best demo he's been a part of at E3. I mean let's be real he didn't like Nintendo hardware before and having Skyrim on the Switch is a big step.

 

[Franz Brötchen]

maybe a certain 17th century mathematician is inside one of these contraptions ��

Spoiler

most likely not, but it's nice to dream

You'll get your 19th century Scottish physicist and you'll like it.
Also it's basically the same, for programmers to work on at least.

He's never hyped a Nintendo system up before. He even said it was the best demo he's been a part of at E3. I mean let's be real he didn't like Nintendo hardware before and having Skyrim on the Switch is a big step.

I guess he simply realizes two things:
- The system isn't too bizarre to work on, it is really a straight-forward gaming machine, as were all PS systems before.
- It makes homeconsole type gaming on the go a thing, which wasn't quite the case with Vita since the power and architectural gap was too large. I think there was a prototype for Oblivion on PSP (not Howard's game, I know but still), so Bethesda sure isn't completely dismissive of non-homeconsole gaming

 

[marc^o^]

It really isn't. And customers are going to see it sitting next to more powerful competing consoles that are cheaper

So it will sell first to gamers who already have a PS4 or PC. Most gamers who get a Switch at launch probably are gamer enthusiasts, with multiple systems.

 

[7threst]

Reading these comments make me hyped about Switch even more. Can't wait!

 

[Janet Restrepo]

What makes you a better judge of that than the developers in the OP?

I'm a nobody. Just a consumer. You remember consumers, right? We're the ones that decided the Wii U was an overpriced, underpowered, gimmick-laden waste of money, which led to its failure. There was no end to the developers praising the Wii U before it released. They scattered pretty quickly once the nobody consumers spoke. I look at the price of the Switch, but especially at the idiotic price of peripherals and I balk. And if someone like me who is spends a lot on games and game hardware is balking at the price, imagine what the average consumer is going to do, especially in the face of far more powerful consoles that are cheaper and have actual third party support.

So it will sell first to gamers who already have a PS4 or PC. Most gamers who get a Switch at launch probably are gamer enthusiasts, with multiple systems.

Wii U did that too, and then it died. I'm not seeing yet why this is going to be different. At least not until they make the portable part of the equation actually portable.

 

[Skeletos311]

What did Suda say on stage? I watch NJPW, maybe I can get the joke.

 

[marc^o^]

I'm not seeing yet why this is going to be different. At least not until they make the portable part of the equation actually portable.

Do you believe people don't find ways to take laptops or iPads to places? Switch is way more portable than that.

 

[Datschge]

HD rumble has the potential to be the missing link to motion control (that the Joycons also support): With motion controls and classic rumble you just move in air so you don't get feedback when you touch or hit virtual object, only diffuse sensations of force if classic rumble is used. HD rumble by all indications gives the force a direction, making you able to feel from which direction the force comes. This can be used to create all kinds of touch sensations as they are all different combinations of different degrees of forces from different directions. So in the perfect case HD rumble would be to touch as surround sound is to audio and VR is to visuals.

 

[Janet Restrepo]

Do you believe people don't find ways to take laptop or iPads to places? Switch is way more portable than that.

Laptops are clamshells like a DS/3DS. Perfect for portability. iPads easily slip into a protective sleeve. The analog sticks are the biggest reason I'd be hesitant to slip my Switch into a bag. There's definitely going to be a more portable version in the future.

 

[Cerium]

I'm a nobody.

Ok.

 

[Japanmanx3]

Hype inducing praise. Glad Japan Devs are digging it. Hearing them praise the price and HD Rumble is awesome to see. Hope the Western Devs embrace just as much.

 

[Gamerman1]

Hope HD Rumble doesn't result in a bunch of shovel ware games using it.

 

[Air]

Laptops are clamshells like a DS/3DS. Perfect for portability. iPads easily slip into a protective sleeve. The analog sticks are the biggest reason I'd be hesitant to slip my Switch into a bag. There's definitely going to be a more portable version in the future.

Laptops are bigger than the switch, even clamped down. If you're going to make annexception for a laptop, which many range to 2-3x as large as the switch- the switch falls perfectly in those bounds.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Words words words.

I've seen these developer scrawls from the Super Nintendo all the way down to Wii U. They often don't result in ever seeing an actual game for the platform. I'll wait until I see a game to back up the bluster.

 

[BlastProcessing]

Laptops are clamshells like a DS/3DS. Perfect for portability. iPads easily slip into a protective sleeve. The analog sticks are the biggest reason I'd be hesitant to slip my Switch into a bag. There's definitely going to be a more portable version in the future.

If only there was some sort of way to take those analog sticks off so the Switch would fit in a sleeve...

 

[QuixoticNeutral]

I think developer familiarity with (and excitement for) the HD Rumble and the perception of the price as cheap are interrelated. Here on NeoGAF, where there is an unusually high proportion of multiple console owners who are shopping for Nintendo hardware as a second system (and where some vocal and shortsighted people would rather see their dollar value only ever materialize as a short-term bump in GPU power than as unique interactive features), most of the unreasonable expectations for the $199-249 range were driven by the presumption that the Joy-Cons were cheap replaceable hunks of plastic with a stick and four buttons, more comparable to the Wii Nunchuk than anything else. Moreover, it seems that those who complain about "gimmicks" would prefer it if the Joy-Cons were in fact just that.

I'm still not clear on whether the HD Rumble effects are felt when the Joy-Cons are snapped into the included grip, although the feature is indeed supported in the Pro Controller. As someone who is quite comfortable using controllers in separate hands as in the Wiimote's heyday, I've found myself wondering whether Nintendo could have gotten away with shaving the margins further by not including the non-charging grip; but as with the included wrist strap attachments, they must have calculated that including these conveniences in the box to cater to all ergonomic preferences would stave off complaints, establish good will, or otherwise create the perception of catering to those who are deeply attached to the idea of a standard controller.

 

[Lord Ghirahim]

Is an HD Rumble novel possible? What kinds of images can we evoke from worlds depicted with just letters and vibrations? Fear induced by the rumbling. Suspense. I think it would be possible to create an overwhelmingly frightening game with it. Also, the feeling and weight of it. This is a little embarrassing, but I think it is a good fit for romance-themed visual noels as well. And just imagine how HD rumble controllers could enhance analogue games like Werewolf. I just can’t stop fantasizing about new and exciting uses/possibilities for it (laughs).

Do itttt. Do itttttttt.

 

[asagami_]

Words words words.

I've seen these developer scrawls from the Super Nintendo all the way down to Wii U. They often don't result in ever seeing an actual game for the platform. I'll wait until I see a game to back up the bluster.

What are you talking about? They are japanese devs, who have worked with Nintendo at least some once. For fact (and because I'm more familiar with this), Atlus is developing a new Shin Megami Tensei for Switch, because formerly 3DS was the home for those games.