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[SmokedMeat]

1) Digital generally has to be match Physical so not to piss off the still very important retail. This will be around for a while.

How important do you think retail is to physical copies of a small indie game? The ball is in whose court here?

Because for one, I don't picture big box retailers buying up many copies of Rime the way they would something like Assassin's Creed. In fact I doubt most retailers would give it the space. Maybe GameStop if any, but the writing is on the wall in regards to the digital future. So for a small indie to release the digital version at $10 cheaper then physical, which is actually parity with every other version; I don't see retailers having much to say.

Edit: You also mentioned Vita carts costing less then Nintendo's. If that's the case then right there is something Nintendo can do to help out. Because not cutting the smaller guys a break is going to hurt them on Switch if they're forced to up the price.

 

[Doctre81]

2) The cost of the Switch carts (which, by the way, are fucking outrageous) means that devs/publishers HAVE to increase the price of the game so they can return a profit.

There is no way there would be physical versions of Binding of Isaac and Redout if that were the case.

 

[Vitacat]

It's not even like Switch owners don't have indie options in the immediate future. We're getting all of this in March alone:

Shovel Knight - $25, Out Now, Timed Exclusive
FAST RMX - $20, Out Now, Exclusive
Snipperclips - $20, Out Now, Exclusive
Blaster Master Zero - $10, Out Tomorrow, Exclusive
VOEZ - $25, Out Tomorrow, Console Exclusive
Snake Pass - $20, March 28, Price and Date Parity

These are all quality games that treat the platform and its owners with respect and you can get two of them for the price of RiME. If RiME is counting on desperation from Switch users I can assure you we'll be too busy playing other things to care.

Agreed.

Some also seem to want to characterize Switch indie software pricing using Rime as the example, which is absurd.

I have no plans to buy Rime. It looks kinda like a Zelda game anyway, and I have THE Zelda game already. Looking at the price of other indie games, seems like it's the Rime devs who set that high price. Well, good luck to them, but I suspect that price won't last very long.

 

[VanWinkle]

Huh. Welp. Switch was a good option for me (as long as the port is good), but not anymore I suppose.

 

[coughlanio]

$29.99 = €34.99.

What?? Why?

Also that Switch price... this is just wrong!

VAT.

Physical makes sense - cartridge is more expensive than a disk, but can't say the same about digital - unless they're forced to charge the same for both the physical and digital version.

 

[SomedayTheFire]

Sorry but I don't buy that carts are $10 more than disc based games. I agree they would be better off skipping the Switch because I now will not pick this up on any console.

OK. The carts are not per piece 10 dollars more expensive, but they're a significant amount more in production. Say a disc is $1 (it's not but just stick with it) and a cart is $2 that's still a 100% mark up in price. You can not believe it all you want but there is a significant difference in the cost of disc and cart production. Larger pubs can eat the cost I'd they believe the market is there (see Ubisoft and Just Dance) but others simply can't if they want to release a physical game. Rime's publisher simply shouldn't have offered a physical Switch version if this was the outcome. Though that would have had its own backlash.

 

[KennyLinder]

So charity? You're answer is do it for them at no benefit to yourself so they can make more games?

Read what you wrote man. They can skip the platform and the Switch can die and Nintendo can go outta business. As a consumer there is no reason to eat this cost.

So you'd rather they lost money and went out of business?

 

[Equanimity]

Pretty sure Yacht Games said the price is increasing for all versions to the Switch price

I see. Do you know why they're increasing the price for PS4 and Xbox One?

Just checked, you're correct. It's £2.49 more and the PS version is Cross Buy. Yacht Club can fuck off as well then.

I'd still buy it, but I'm planing to wait until it goes on sale.

A simple mistake or spreading misinformation?

About?

 

[tolkir]

It's not even like Switch owners don't have indie options in the immediate future. We're getting all of this in March alone:

Shovel Knight - $25, Out Now, Timed Exclusive
FAST RMX - $20, Out Now, Exclusive
Snipperclips - $20, Out Now, Exclusive
Blaster Master Zero - $10, Out Tomorrow, Exclusive
VOEZ - $25, Out Tomorrow, Console Exclusive
Snake Pass - $20, March 28, Price and Date Parity

These are all quality games that treat the platform and its owners with respect and you can get two of them for the price of RiME. If RiME is counting on desperation from Switch users I can assure you we'll be too busy playing other things to care.

You forgot the best one:

Has-Been Heroes - $19.99, March 28, Price, Date Parity and Physical release with same price

 

[Matt]

The game cards are obviously more expensive than disks.

But they aren't THAT much more.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

OK. The carts are not per piece 10 dollars more expensive, but they're a significant amount more in production. Say a disc is $1 (it's not but just stick with it) and a cart is $2 that's still a 100% mark up in price. You can not believe it all you want but there is a significant difference in the cost of disc and cart production. Larger pubs can eat the cost I'd they believe the market is there (see Ubisoft and Just Dance) but others simply can't if they want to release a physical game. Rime's publisher simply shouldn't have offered a physical Switch version if this was the outcome. Though that would have had its own backlash.

Skip the platform then. They can't have their cake and eat it too but then also try and drum up sympathy.

So you'd rather they lost money and went out of business?

Listen, I am not going to actually argue with you on the basis of sympathy. When I go to work none of our customers give a shit about whether I get to keep my job or we lose money and go out of business. They have certain expectations. They have demands. And if we dont meet them or find alternatives then we die out. We all love gaming but to put on your blinders as to what this is, business, is not something I am going to do.

Take that how you will.

 

[The_Kid]

Whelp. Guess I'm not getting Rime then.

 

[Calm Mind]

If what the PR spin said was true, wouldn't the physical versions of the PS4/Xbox One game be priced similarly?

 

[SomedayTheFire]

I see. Do you know why?



I'd still buy it.



About?

The two expansions, I believe. They were losing money on new sales because they were free DLC based on the kickstarter.

Skip the platform then. They can't have their cake and eat it too but then also try and drum up sympathy.

I agree with you.

 

[Arturo]

Shovel Knight costs more on the Switch than it does on the PS4.

No.

 

[EDarkness]

So you'd rather they lost money and went out of business?

No, of course not, but you have to be realistic here, man. If this is the only way to get the NS fans the game, then there's a problem somewhere. Get rid of physical if it's going to drive up the costs that much. Otherwise they're sending the game to die and what would be the point of that?

 

[jonno394]

The game cards are obviously more expensive than disks.

But they aren't THAT much more.

Indeed. Cards are not $10 more, most of this is "new console with a small audience so how much more do we have to charge to break even when selling X amount and Make a profit when selling Y"

 

[Equanimity]

The two expansions, I believe. They were losing money on new sales because they were free DLC based on the kickstarter.

Fair enough.

No.

It does in UK.

 

[Dark Cloud]

The game cards are obviously more expensive than disks.

But they aren't THAT much more.

Exactly.

 

[DeuceGamer]

The game cards are obviously more expensive than disks.

But they aren't THAT much more.

Exactly, I think everyone understands they are more than discs. Is it an amount that you would expect is within an amount that Pubs/Devs should eat the difference, like a lot of this thread believes?

Honestly if not they should just skip Switch because I can't see Switch owners supporting this practice. Especially for digital releases.

 

[Arturo]

Fair enough.



It does in UK.

WTF? How much there? And most important… why?

 

[Soroc]

I manage our Twitter so I am being consistent!

As I mentioned there are varying factors that go into the price increase. I cannot obviously go into detail as to all of the factors (some of which I don't even have vision into), we did not do this out of malice as I mentioned. Development, production, and manufacturing costs are all factors in the decisions making process and this was the decision that was made.

Thank you for the response but I hope you understand that response is pretty vague and doesn't address why digital and physical are priced the same. Its a real shame but I won't be purchasing this game anymore due to this and the reason is bolded below by another poster.

Well we got a response, but it doesn't mention anything about digital being priced the same.

Apparently there was a serious discussion on price and they arrived at the extra $10. Well consider this your focus group; we're not thrilled. I don't care who it is. I'm not getting nailed for an extra $10 just because I choose the Switch version. I'll just buy for a different platform or not at all.

Once you accept this with one publisher you can expect others to follow. No thanks.

I hope there is some channel that you can provide the feedback from this thread and I'm sure your twitter comments and push back at the publisher that this isn't the best idea, at least be reasonable and drop the price of the digital version to price parity.

 

[Crimson_Gold]

Well yeah, definitely not $10 more. That would make more sense. They should have just released it digitally only on the switch. It's turned into a big mess

 

[KennyLinder]

How important do you think retail is to physical copies of a small indie game? The ball is in whose court here?

Because for one, I don't picture big box retailers buying up many copies of Rime the way they would something like Assassin's Creed. In fact I doubt most retailers would give it the space. Maybe GameStop if any, but the writing is on the wall in regards to the digital future. So for a small indie to release the digital version at $10 cheaper then physical, which is actually parity with every other version; I don't see retailers having much to say.

Edit: You also mentioned Vita carts costing less then Nintendo's. If that's the case then right there is something Nintendo can do to help out. Because not cutting the smaller guys a break is going to hurt them on Switch if they're forced to up the price.

Personally I thinks it's weird that there are so many physical indie games coming to Switch. For a modern (portable) system, I thought all the indie games would be digital only. I am even surprised games like Puyo Puyo Tetris is getting a physical release. But publishers still think it's worth doing and fans are really quite vocal about it. The print runs will probably be pretty short on those games.

 

[nampad]

Vita carts were cheaper than what Nintendo charge.

There are serveral factors that I'll put below.

1) Digital generally has to be match Physical so not to piss off the still very important retail. This will be around for a while.

2) The cost of the Switch carts (which, by the way, are fucking outrageous) means that devs/publishers HAVE to increase the price of the game so they can return a profit. Remember, on a £50 game, the dev doesn't see £50. It's much, much less. Then take into account the additional cost of the manufacter (in this case, Switch carts), margins are much tighter. Then on top of this is the added risk of releasing on a new platform with a small user base, and you have a challenging situation.

Thanks for the information. Always nice to get some insight.

 

[jonno394]

WTF? How much there? And most important… why?

£2.49 more on eshop than psn/xbox store. Very curious as to why considering everyone else gets the same prices across consoles.

 

[LordKano]

Vita carts were cheaper than what Nintendo charge.

There are serveral factors that I'll put below.

1) Digital generally has to be match Physical so not to piss off the still very important retail. This will be around for a while.

2) The cost of the Switch carts (which, by the way, are fucking outrageous) means that devs/publishers HAVE to increase the price of the game so they can return a profit. Remember, on a £50 game, the dev doesn't see £50. It's much, much less. Then take into account the additional cost of the manufacter (in this case, Switch carts), margins are much tighter. Then on top of this is the added risk of releasing on a new platform with a small user base, and you have a challenging situation.

Sorry, but no, that's bullshit. No matter who you pretend to be. There wouldn't be that many physical indies release if that was the case.

 

[killroy87]

16 pages and a bit of press! Have the devs responded to this at all?

 

[DeuceGamer]

OK. The carts are not per piece 10 dollars more expensive, but they're a significant amount more in production. Say a disc is $1 (it's not but just stick with it) and a cart is $2 that's still a 100% mark up in price. You can not believe it all you want but there is a significant difference in the cost of disc and cart production. Larger pubs can eat the cost I'd they believe the market is there (see Ubisoft and Just Dance) but others simply can't if they want to release a physical game. Rime's publisher simply shouldn't have offered a physical Switch version if this was the outcome. Though that would have had its own backlash.

So if they are $1 more you eat the cost instead of losing sales and taking the bad publicity. Otherwise skip the system as it's just a bad look. Like I said I won't support this. If it skipped Switch i would just have bought it on PS4, but now I will be skipping the game altogether.

Edit: If the price isn't a full $10 difference than how can anybody justify a $10 price increase being passed on to the consumer.

 

[Matt]

Exactly, I think everyone understands they are more than discs. Is it an amount that you would expect is within an amount that Pubs/Devs should eat the difference, like a lot of this thread believes?

A $10 up charge can't be explained away by manufacturing costs.

 

[Icarus]

Well I can understand that you might not be able to go into specifics, but I'm curious as to what secret sauce Sumo Digital has access to that you guys do not.

They got Snake Pass running on Switch in a week and it's releasing in less than three months after they got the dev kits and it's coming at the same time as the other platforms.

What's their file size?

 

[Makonero]

A $10 up charge can't be explained away by manufacturing costs.

Exactly. And as someone else mentioned, this is the kind of cost you spread amongst all SKUs, not one you dump on one and hope no one notices.

 

[Cerium]

What's their file size?

They say it changes daily as they're still optimizing. So no official word yet on that.

 

[EternalDarko]

£2.49 more on eshop than psn/xbox store. Very curious as to why considering everyone else gets the same prices across consoles.

Is the PSN/XBL version also the Treasure Trove version of the game with all DLC? I logged into PSN on my android app but it didn't have any info on what was included...And I couldnt be bothered to check XBL lol.

 

[Oregano]

Is the PSN/XBL version also the Treasure Trove version of the game with all DLC? I logged into PSN on my android app but it didn't have any info on what was included...And I couldnt be bothered to check XBL lol.

Yep, but they don't have Specter of Torment yet. They also have exclusive content where the Switch version's is tied to an additional Amiibo purchase.

 

[Linkhero1]

A $10 up charge can't be explained away by manufacturing costs.

Switch owners paying the price for the long PS4 dev cycle.

 

[boredandlazy]

I'm just really happy to see it is confirmed for physical release on Switch. Looks like a must buy. $10 increase doesn't bother me if that's what they gotta do to justify the port. It's just $10...

How many times does it have to happen before that $10 adds up to something unreasonable for you?

 

[GabeTheGrouch76]

16 pages and a bit of press! Have the devs responded to this at all?

Dariuas / Tim responded some pages ago. Not a member from the developer team, bur he is community manager for the game. His post seemed to echo the Twitter response to the question, namely that the Switch version having higher development/publishing costs than the other consoles. I personally don't think it's a satisfactory answer (Switch ports of other indie games, such as the aforementioned Snake Pass, are being released on the same day their other respective versions while also retailing at the same price); but I do appreciate the guy taking the time to come here and respond nonetheless.

 

[DeuceGamer]

Exactly. And as someone else mentioned, this is the kind of cost you spread amongst all SKUs, not one you dump on one and hope no one notices.

Agree. Some consoles have higher priced dev kits and/or require additional staff to properly port the game. Are devs going to start charging more if the X1 costs more to port to than PS4? Can't see tht happen regardless of whether the actual dev costs were significantly different.

 

[CronoShot]

Cartridges do cost more than discs, that much is obvious.

But let's say bluray discs cost $2 to $3 in manufacturing, and let's give a worst case scenario and say Switch carts cost double what a disc costs ($4 to $6). That $2 or $3 increase is absolutely significant in manufacturing costs, especially for smaller devs and publishers.

Problem is, that still doesn't even remotely explain why the price of Rime is ten dollars higher.

Even assuming they are rounding up by fives for a nice normal price, that the price isn't $34.99 would imply that Switch carts cost, at minimum, >$5 more than discs. Which is nonsense.

Manufacturing costs alone cannot explain such a huge difference in price.

 

[Makonero]

Cartridges do cost more than discs, that much is obvious.

But let's say bluray discs cost $2 to $3 in manufacturing, and let's give a worst case scenario and say Switch carts cost double what a disc costs ($4 to $6). That $2 or $3 increase is absolutely significant in manufacturing costs, especially for smaller devs and publishers.

Problem is, that still doesn't even remotely explain why the price of Rime is ten dollars higher.

Even assuming they are rounding up by fives for a nice normal price, that the price isn't $34.99 would imply that Switch carts cost, at minimum, >$5 more than discs. Which is nonsense.

Manufacturing costs alone cannot explain such a huge difference in price.

Right, because the answer really is greed. Any other publisher with a late port wouldn't dare increase the price! They're just taking advantage of the sparse launch to get as much cash as they can.

 

[Surface of Me]

Cartridges do cost more than discs, that much is obvious.

But let's say bluray discs cost $2 to $3 in manufacturing, and let's give a worst case scenario and say Switch carts cost double what a disc costs ($4 to $6). That $2 or $3 increase is absolutely significant in manufacturing costs, especially for smaller devs and publishers.

Problem is, that still doesn't even remotely explain why the price of Rime is ten dollars higher.

Even assuming they are rounding up by fives for a nice normal price, that the price isn't $34.99 would imply that Switch carts cost, at minimum, >$5 more than discs. Which is nonsense.

Manufacturing costs alone cannot explain such a huge difference in price.

Do you really think that the extra $10 all goes to the dev?

 

[hatchx]

Dariuas / Tim responded some pages ago. Not a member from the developer team, bur he is community manager for the game. His post seemed to echo the Twitter response to the question, namely that the Switch version having higher development/publishing costs than the other consoles. I personally don't think it's a satisfactory answer (Switch ports of other indie games, such as the aforementioned Snake Pass, are being released on the same day their other respective versions while also retailing at the same price); but I do appreciate the guy taking the time to come here and respond nonetheless.

I don't know how I feel about this. It just seems bogus to me to charge more money for a port that perhaps needed more optimization. It's an unprecedented position in over two decades of multiplatform development. I don't remember any PS3/360 or PS2/GCN/XBX games ever being sold at various price models to cover various optimization and porting. It's just throwing it on the consumer when at the end of the day we are buying the same, singular, product.

I'd understand if it had Switch-exclusive content or was a remaster, but to charge more money for the same product, releasing later, is simply pissing on the consumers.

They'd build a lot of good will by going back on this decision.

 

[GabeTheGrouch76]

Do you really think that the extra $10 all goes to the dev?

The developer having to split the profits of the extra $10 with other beneficiaries doesn't explain why the digital Switch version of the game also costs $10 more than the other digital versions of the games.

 

[_Clash_]

Horrendous

 

[Glix]

Just wanted to cross post because the other thread got locked.

Based on Nintendo history in terms of controlling the supply chain, charging an arm and a leg for media, and having absurd requirements in terms of minimum number of copies printed, I have no issue believing that a pub will have to charge $10 extra to see the same revenue per copy as they do on ps4/bone/steam.

Im willing to be proven wrong, but based on what we know from the past putting this on anyone but Nintendo seems illogical.

If it didn't go to the dev, there would be no reason for the digital Switch version of the game to also cost $10 more than the other versions.

Digital price parity is 100% a concession to their retail partner to foster cooperation.

 

[Jonneh3003]

If cartridges were the issue that wouldn't explain why 3DS games are cheaper than PS4 games. I doubt RiME is a big 32Gb game, it'll probably come on a 4gb cartridge.

 

[Varth]

As a jaded gamer, it seems you owe to yourself 10€ more to play this.

 

[KAL2006]

Dariuas / Tim responded some pages ago. Not a member from the developer team, bur he is community manager for the game. His post seemed to echo the Twitter response to the question, namely that the Switch version having higher development/publishing costs than the other consoles. I personally don't think it's a satisfactory answer (Switch ports of other indie games, such as the aforementioned Snake Pass, are being released on the same day their other respective versions while also retailing at the same price); but I do appreciate the guy taking the time to come here and respond nonetheless.

Switch publishing cost is $10 more someone should clarify. As for development cost, I though devkits are cheap, and Switch architecture is easy to develop for. Doesn't seem like a honest answer.

 

[SenkiDala]

WTF? How much there? And most important… why?

Brexit, that's all.