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[DustyVonEric]

Looks like after-school program.

Ha!

This thread had me cracking up, but "looks like an after-school program" got me

 

[ThePeoplesBureau]

Here you go

Nothing to see here edition

 

[Mandoric]

Maybe they should just stop and let a new game speak for itself. If people want it for esports or streaming top 10 etc. should rise to the top naturally right? Why force it. Build it and they will come or not. Halo CE, 2, 3 didn't get pushed or designed around esports, just fun games with decent maps and features that people enjoyed.

Being ~esports~ is good inexpensive marketing, unless it backfires horribly like this. It also dovetails well with good features, as your matchmaking ladder seeds your tournaments AND supplies constant balance metrics.

Flipped around, Halo 2 was very designed around everything esports except for the actual esports part of giving Rank 50 players a paycheck.

 

[The Salt Life]

Halo is still relevant but much less than years ago. It's still on a decline and only longtime existing fans will buy the games rather than attract new fans, hence its decline.

It doesn't help when the halo fans are toxic as all hell to change. The series could still be great if it was allowed to evolve into being fun again, but to be fun in modern times. It still plays like a fps from 2004.
Halo is a great series but it's a dated series

 

[fbutron]

Ja ja Was dying with the Travolta Gif and criminal skull girls reference

On topic, these events are more for marketing and having the stream "bravo" is a bad choice, even charge for be there?? Should backfire to avoid similar venues in the future

 

[Trup1aya]

That's still a fairly high expense. In my school's small music theatre it costs around $1,500 for a two hour concert with one channel of audio and regular lighting in a venue that can fit 20-40 people depending on how much space the ensemble takes up; add more audio channels, lighting and the cost goes up. A lot of people severely underestimate how much it costs to put on a show.

Everything costs, but costs is not the issue here. It's poor planning. Their were 4 qualifying venues leading up to the World Championships. 1 in St. Louis, 1 in Las Vegas, one at Wembly Stadium in London, and one in Mexico City. The first two were held by small tournament organizers. The second two held by gfinity. All of them were in much larger venues. All of them were at capacity.

This event look place at ESL Studios, because whatever venue plans ESL had fell through. Probably because they waited until the last minute. since signing with 343 ESL has been TERRIBLE when it comes to venues.

On several occasions ESL didn't start selling tickets until 2 weeks in advance. On one occasion, the event was held at a Korean-Pop Convention. This is just the latest in a string of ESL venue fuck ups.

Everyone is making this out to be an indictment of Halo's popularity or interest in Halo's competitive scene. Sure neither of those metrics are anywhere near the golden years. But there is much more interest in competitive Halo than these photos imply. ESL literally COULDN'T capaitalize in the interest because their venue couldnt facilitate it.

 

[MysteryM]

I think 343 and Microsoft need to go back to the drawing board. Churning out another samey Halo 6 that's decent but completely unremarkable isn't going to cut it. In fact, it's likely to exacerbate the current level of apathy people have for the Halo franchise. The die-hard Halo fanbase alone won't keep sustaining the IP.

Are you talking multiplayer or single player? For multiplayer, halo 5 was pretty damn good, a massive step up from 4 and held the player numbers for way longer than any other halo game. It plays far different to how halo 2\3 did and has evolved with the franchise.

But that probably doesn't fit "halo is dad" so please proceed.

 

[samurai1226]

So that's the reason why they throw away classic Halo gameplay for more eSport oriented modern-fps stuff... Seems to work really great for them.

 

[belushy]

Everyone is making this out to be an indictment of Halo's popularity or interest in Halo's competitive scene. Sure neither of those metrics are anywhere near the golden years. But there is much more interest in competitive Halo than these photos imply. ESL literally COULDN'T capaitalize in the interest because their venue couldnt facilitate it.

Yeah it's pretty funny to see the spin-job going on with some of these posts. Halo has been doing fine. They don't seem to understand why the Halo comp community was even pissed in the first place which is a shame.

 

[Suburban Thug]

Are you talking multiplayer or single player? For multiplayer, halo 5 was pretty damn good, a massive step up from 4 and held the player numbers for way longer than any other halo game. It plays far different to how halo 2\3 did and has evolved with the franchise.

But that probably doesn't fit "halo is dad" so please proceed.

You have any numbers to back that up because i have a very hard time believing the player base held longer than Halo 2 or 3.

 

[big_z]

someone needs to street view the outside of that venue. I need to see how it looks uncropped.

 

[Mandoric]

someone needs to street view the outside of that venue. I need to see how it looks uncropped.

 

[RichiRamjag]

Someone add some tumbleweed.

 

[Chip N Chance]

Nice.

 

[big_z]

if you click that pic it opens google maps for a better look around. i cant believe someone thought this was a good choice for venue... wtf?

 

[Chip N Chance]

lol this is directly across the street.

 

[The Dutch Slayer]

Wel the pics and shops + gifs are very funny indeed.
It's very misleading as looking on the internet from people who have been there past few days can show you clearly.
Now is it like Dota2 international?
No but not every game has to / can be that.

Can it be better? Off course but nothing wrong with this event from all the reports.
People who are there / went had a good time.

 

[michaelius]

Here you go

I wonder if Greenberg would retweet it

 

[Ninjuit]

It doesn't help when the halo fans are toxic as all hell to change. The series could still be great if it was allowed to evolve into being fun again, but to be fun in modern times. It still plays like a fps from 2004.
Halo is a great series but it's a dated series

In what ways could they change it to make it more modern and fun? If anything, adding elements from more modern games is possibly what helped damage the franchise.

 

[Raylan Targaryen]

I just think it's a shame that this event is going to be remembered for a sub par venue rather than a really well run and entertaining stream.

There's a reason professional sporting events are held in billion dollar stadiums. The presentation does matter.

Also, people can multitask. It will be remembered as a great tournament that was unfortunately held in an employees backyard.

 

[meppi]

 

[El-Suave]

Did the tent at least have its own Twitter account like the Xbox One reveal tent?

 

[Fat4all]

oh goddamn

That's pretty great

 

[timberger]

That's a really depressing looking venue for something I'd have thought was a huge deal in the esports world.

Haha... this and finding out bits n pieces is banned made this thread a fun read at least.

 

[DonShula]

lol this is directly across the street.

I'm dead after all of these pictures. And giddy that there's a greater than zero percent chance that you could hear a running lawnmower during this event.

 

[Juan]

Being ~esports~ is good inexpensive marketing, unless it backfires horribly like this. It also dovetails well with good features, as your matchmaking ladder seeds your tournaments AND supplies constant balance metrics.

Flipped around, Halo 2 was very designed around everything esports except for the actual esports part of giving Rank 50 players a paycheck.

I don't think Halo 2 has ever been designed with esport in mind. Designing a game for competitive play (which mean you can play competitive with any games, but it just has to offer competitive games) and designing it for esport are two very different things.

Bungie never intended to make an esport game with Halo, just a fun and, sometimes, competitive one, then that game has been used by people for esport purposes.

Halo 5 was made with esport in mind, and it killed both casual play and competitive play for a lot of people (but there are fans of Halo 5, so that's okay for them, thanks to the Forge & Custom Browser).

 

[samurai1226]

It doesn't help when the halo fans are toxic as all hell to change. The series could still be great if it was allowed to evolve into being fun again, but to be fun in modern times. It still plays like a fps from 2004.
Halo is a great series but it's a dated series

Did you even play Halo 5? It got sprint, aim down sight, climbing, fast killtimes - They already dumped the whole Halo formula down with the more modern approach.

I can already see 343i trying to a class based overwatch/team fortress approach in Halo 6, just because who wants the classic Halo, which was one of the best selling fps of all time...

 

[Fatmanp]

Being ~esports~ is good inexpensive marketing, unless it backfires horribly like this. It also dovetails well with good features, as your matchmaking ladder seeds your tournaments AND supplies constant balance metrics.

Flipped around, Halo 2 was very designed around everything esports except for the actual esports part of giving Rank 50 players a paycheck.

Halo 2 was never designed around esports. Bungie just lucked into having a game which was extremely fun too play at a competitive level. Base Halo 2 multiplayer is an absolutely dreadful game (SMG starts).

 

[Mandoric]

Wel the pics and shops + gifs are very funny indeed.
It's very misleading as looking on the internet from people who have been there past few days can show you clearly.
Now is it like Dota2 international?
No but not every game has to / can be that.

Can it be better? Off course but nothing wrong with this event from all the reports.
People who are there / went had a good time.

No one's saying that the few people who made it out to this particular garage behind a camera shop didn't have fun. They're saying that it's a considerably more amateurish job for a $1,000,000 global tournament backed by one of the biggest companies in gaming than you'll find, say, in two weeks at NCR, put on by amateurs and with a $15k prize pool for the sole non-crowdsourced event.

I don't think Halo 2 has ever been designed with esport in mind. Designing a game for competitive play (which mean you can play competitive with any games, but it just has to offer competitive games) and designing it for esport are two very different things.

Bungie never intended to make an esport game with Halo, just a fun and, sometimes, competitive one, then that game has been used by people for esport purposes.

Halo 5 was made with esport in mind, and it killed both casual play and competitive play for a lot of people (but there are fans of Halo 5, so that's okay for them, thanks to the Forge & Custom Browser).

Halo 2 was never designed around esports. Bungie just lucked into having a game which was extremely fun too play at a competitive level. Base Halo 2 multiplayer is an absolutely dreadful game (SMG starts).

You're mistaking "designed in a way which is optimal for esports" - the low-floor high-ceiling, well-tuned online ladder to prevent clusterfucks of pools, constant flow of battle which has always been Halo MP's bread and butter - with the "CoD has more viewers and this is what CoD does differently, so these must be good for esports" flailing of the Bungie B Ark that is 343i.

 

[RichiRamjag]

Halo 2 was never designed around esports. Bungie just lucked into having a game which was extremely fun too play at a competitive level. Base Halo 2 multiplayer is an absolutely dreadful game (SMG starts).

Yep. Early halos were just good games that were damn fun to play at a competitive level. I still remember using xbconnect to play halo 1 online. Was so much fun.

That aside, I really can't stand halos focus on esports and feel that if you make a good game with solid mechanics, competition will spring up naturally.

 

[N7.Angel]

I can't breath... damn Microsoft, make it stop, please, you looks like trying too much, not every game should/could be esport.

 

[tattooed_dwarf]

Looks quote sad really, hope people still had fun. And damn I laughed at that Travolta gif.

Haha... this and finding out bits n pieces is banned made this thread a fun read at least.

Why did he get banned, cos his comments on this thread?

 

[The Salt Life]

Did you even play Halo 5? It got sprint, aim down sight, climbing, fast killtimes - They already dumped the whole Halo formula down with the more modern approach.

I can already see 343i trying to a class based overwatch/team fortress approach in Halo 6, just because who wants the classic Halo, which was one of the best selling fps of all time...

Yes I did own halo 5(well I still do because I own it digital) the game did NOT have ads, at least not the ADS other games are use to.

Classic Halo did not set out to be a esport, Halo 5 did.

Nothing like booting up the game and seeing everything was ranked, no big team battle, no fun party playlist. Everything was e sports. I was not a fan of warzone.

 

[messiaen]

But on the flip side, a lot of people underestimate how much overhead is allocated to a $1m pool event, and how much of the cost is fixed no matter where it's held. Fire marshals, audio and lighting engineers, casters aren't any cheaper just because they decided to hold it in the garage behind a camera shop.

Yes, but you have to increase staff based on the size, but staff isn't even the largest cost factor in a show. Energy and renting equipment are typically the two highest costs by a mile, especially energy in LA. A large portion of the costs for my school is the energy. Staff wages for a two hour show comes out to around $100. We typically have two or three people working for three and a half hours for a two hour show. We own all the equipment, so that $1,500 is coming from powering mics, speakers and lights for two hours or less, most commonly less.

We look at a big festival our school puts on that lasts 4-8 hours a day for three days, now we're in the ballpark of $50,000 or higher and again, we still own most of the equipment used for that and the staff wages scale, but they're still a fraction of the overall cost. Renting equipment that we did need, transporting it and energy were the absolute biggest factors in that cost.

 

[dogpowerd]

 

[Hoo-doo]

Are you talking multiplayer or single player? For multiplayer, halo 5 was pretty damn good, a massive step up from 4 and held the player numbers for way longer than any other halo game. It plays far different to how halo 2\3 did and has evolved with the franchise.

But that probably doesn't fit "halo is dad" so please proceed.

I think that the lack of press releases about sales, viewership numbers and decrease in venue size are pretty significant clues that support the idea that Halo's popularity is on a downward trajectory.

Would you argue otherwise? I'm not talking about the game's technical merits. I'm sure it's a fine multiplayer shooter. But if this thread is any indication, interest in the game's competitive multiplayer is not growing, it's declining. And that's with esports getting bigger and more popular every single day.

 

[Devilgunman]

Holyshyte that looks like a project than a video game venue.

 

[rrc1594]

I think that the lack of press releases about sales, viewership numbers and decrease in venue size are pretty significant clues that support the idea that Halo's popularity is on a downward trajectory.

Would you argue otherwise? I'm not talking about the game's technical merits. I'm sure it's a fine multiplayer shooter. But if this thread is any indication, interest in the game's competitive multiplayer is not growing, it's declining. And that's with esports getting bigger and more popular every single day.

But it's not Halo's competitive scene is fine greatly improved from Reach and Halo 4.

 

[jem0208]

I think that the lack of press releases about sales, viewership numbers and decrease in venue size are pretty significant clues that support the idea that Halo's popularity is on a downward trajectory.

Would you argue otherwise? I'm not talking about the game's technical merits. I'm sure it's a fine multiplayer shooter. But if this thread is any indication, interest in the game's competitive multiplayer is not growing, it's declining. And that's with esports getting bigger and more popular every single day.

This thread is a really shit indication.


Anyway, here's an ESPN article about the tourney so far: www.espn.co.uk/esports/story/_/id/19005856/halo-world-championship-recap-day-2

 

[Yibby]

Looks good enough for a picture?

 

[TimeEffect]

These people are quite old.

 

[CyReN]

Couple people from the event commented on their experience so far via TeamBeyond:

From the perspective of the guy, a spectator at HWC 2017 (whose last event attended was MLG Columbus 2010. Oh the memories):

Arrived at 8:45, like 8th in line. Everyone got let in at like 9:40, we had to go to the back of the line because we hadn't attended yesterday and didn't have passes, finally got in and they just checked our name, gave us passes.

The viewing tent isn't great, definitely not why I drove 5 hours and paid $60. B stream was probably the biggest disappointment, just the one small screen in the tent, and you had to actually stand up by it if you wanted audio.

Main stage has 60 normal seats, 30 legendary pass seats, and 30 player/VIP reserved seats. It's pretty cramped, but we definitely got hyped at times. If you got a seat, you better not give it up, it took us like 3-4 hours to get back in.

Overall it's just kind of disheartening. I'm glad I'm here, I'll always love watching good halo live. I hope a strong message is sent, and instead of just pumping money into prize pools, we get funding for amazing events and spectator experiences. Ignoring MLG's experience, not only as a TO, but with Halo specifically, is unwise.

Here's to an awesome Championship Sunday. Stay passionate, beyond.

Just thought I should share:

I know someone who is at the venue, and ESL employees are barring certain people from watching the event on mainstage as there "aren't enough seats." So, everyone else gets to watch from the "viewing tent". It's about being by the right door at the right time, I guess. Here is a quote from a message I was sent: "There are "legendary" seats available that are empty. There's an entire fourth row for "media and players" (who have their own tent) that's empty."

This after ESL changed which doors and areas you're allowed to enter and exit through. @Timo You do realize people paid money for tickets right? The stream production might be sick, but from my understanding, the experience at the venue is absolute trash. I'm glad I bought a ticket and then sold it. What a joke.

 

[Mahonay]

Dear god

I mean, god damn this is embarrassing.

 

[oti]

Is it really if a game sells millions of copies?

If it wasn't selling millions we wouldn't even have this discussion to begin with.

Selling "millions of copies" isn't what it used to be. We're long past the time when 1 million units sold was a great achievement.

 

[IHaveIce]

smh

Naming rights is not the same as owning something. That's like saying American Airlines owns the arena in Miami and Dallas for Americans Airlines Arena and American Airlines Center.

I can't even...

You realize the renting cost is money, right?

Guys, if you would have read further than just one post of mine and hit the quote button youvwould have realized that was already covered I admitted that I'm wrong.

Good job guys.


Edit: also thanks for all the memes, the forza crowd one gad me dying

 

[Mahonay]

Here you go

You're all amazing.

2018?

This actually makes me nostalgic. Big all-day Halo 1 LANs with my high school friends was the fucking best. Although I see 360's in this one.

 

[Akai__]

Man, Greenshill will defend 343i until he dies. Pros are really expressing their concern and he is the number one in the line of the defense force.

In terms of organization Halo (343i), ESL, Gfinity and all other organizators and all other partners, don't even come close to 2005-2010 MLG. And since then, MLG has grown by a very large margin. The SC2 tournaments were unreal, the COD tournaments are appareantly pretty good, the one Counter Strike tournament was an incredible success and they are also helping growing the Gears scene.

Seeing this in comparison of what we had back in the 2008 Halo 3 National Championship is just pure sadness.

 

[IHaveIce]

Man, Greenshill will defend 343i until he dies. Pros are really expressing their concern and he is the number one in the line of the defense force.

In terms of organization Halo (343i), ESL, Gfinity and all other organizators and all other partners, don't even come close to 2005-2010 MLG. And since then, MLG has grown by a very large margin. The SC2 tournaments were unreal, the COD tournaments are appareantly pretty good, the one Counter Strike tournament was an incredible success and they are also helping growing the Gears scene.

Seeing this in comparison of what we had back in the 2008 Halo 3 National Championship is just pure sadness.

Yep, pople who are arguing Halo isn't relevant anymore need to take a look at Gears under MLGs reign

Gears is population wise not better than Halo 5 or sold much more, but if the events are well run they are succesful and people come to them.

 

[blue_phazon]

Yep, pople who are arguing Halo isn't relevant anymore need to take a look at Gears under MLGs reign

Gears is population wise not better than Halo 5 or sold much more, but if the events are well run they are succesful and people come to them.

This is so true. Everything is better with MLG's involvement with Gears 4. The venues look proper, people come out, and it gets hyped like crazy. They also support locals and AMs which Halo 5 didn't do well.

Now even though I enjoy the Halo streams, even the gears streams are a huge step up. They have a website dedicated to watching it, with an embedded twitch chat, and "quests" where you do things like participate in polls that pop up during stream or whatever, and win skins and prizes.

And all this for gears. A niche scene given so much love and support is actually making it grow little by little. The gears streams get 10-25k views (depending on how major the event) and this would have been unheard of with older gears games

 

[mcfrank]

My brother and I used to host Halo 1 LAN tournaments in his house all the time. Whats the problem?