lol right? I'm sure at least half the people excited about it have no idea what it means.
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XBOX Scorpio: DX12 Built Directly Into GPU
- Thread starter Space_nut
- Start date
lol right? I'm sure at least half the people excited about it have no idea what it means.
SEGAvangelist
Member
It directs the Xbox to greatness. It's amazing.
Risk Breaker
Member
Look, the thing is, Scorpio is powerful enough without resorting to marketing speak (and let me tell you, first party companies will ALWAYS use it when announcing/describing their own hardware).
It is a massive leap over the paltry Xbone, and sensibly faster than a PS4 Pro, with a slightly higher CPU overclock, a few more CUs and higher GPU clock, and also pretty fast GDDR5 with a massive BW improvement over Xbone.
There is no need to paint the console as a revolution in the way hardware is designed. It won't be faster than a 1070 or 1080, but it doesn't have to. The CPU is still Jaguar, but that's fine because it will still run games designed for Xbone as the lowest common denominator. It will do it in 4k and probably with improved settings, but that's simply due to the fact that it's a Polaris GPU delivering 6 Tflops.
JeffG
Member
godhandiscen
There are millions of whiny 5-year olds on Earth, and I AM THEIR KING.
You need to take a shower to wash off all that salt.
Ahh I see the mods already sent you to the locker room.
Risk Breaker
Member
Full DX12?
Time to use that gif again
Good one.
No it's Jaguar it literally says that in the DF scoop.
JeffG
Member
Ah...I see
Game changer?
No
But as tech shit. Pretty cool
I could see some engineers sitting in a meeting. "Phil only gave us this CPU. We had to keep costs down, but its kinda weak."
"Yea...and we overclocked is a much as we can."
"How the frick can we squeeze some more performance out of it?"
"How about we remove processing?"
"What can we move?"
"Well...what software will be consistent over the lifetime of the machine that will give us the best bang for our buck..."
and MS thought of this solution. I think it is cool in a nerd fest way
joshwaan
Member
If only the same company could make the software and OS not suck for utlizing game when it comes to pc space. Pathetic gamers and worse devs won't hold them accountable on this subject. The idea of highly tuned gaming OS for pc gaming will always be a pipe dream and yet the need couldn't be made any more clear on a day like this.
Isn't that mostly what we have in these consoles? They just don't run a generic OS and you can't just put a newer video card in them.
Insane Metal
Gold Member
So does this mean anything at all or is it just pre-launch hardware mumble jumble?
Andronicus
Banned
accord 4 cylinder vs an accord V6*
JeffG
Member
It means something.
Its a interesting technique that free's up some cpu cycles. So from a comparison perspective, it looks like the CPU behaves like a faster CPU than its PC equivalent.
But earth shattering. No
LukasTaves
Member
They are not saying they moved the gpu to Dx12, they are saying they moved Dx12 (from the CPU to this processor).
What they did is add a middle man in the cpu->gpu commands and that middle man frees up the CPU to do other stuff. And I'm guessing it has some treatment to avoid stalls from either side.
The Hamburglar
Banned
Is it a coincidence its called direct X and Xbox?
could we see directXX
could we see directXX
Insane Metal
Gold Member
Right. Thanks!
This.
I'm saying I would like scorpio OS improvements in windows desktop myself. Mainly better offloading considering it's something ms tends to screw up and remove from their OS.
I don't want better hardware I want better efficient software and less bloat.
GarthVaderUK
Banned
The Xbox name originated from Direct X box.
Salty Rice
Member
So true.
Delusibeta
Banned
So, I am not a developer, but here's what I think Microsoft is talking about here: that draw calls, traditionally a CPU task, has been shoved to the GPU. Which, frankly, sounds similar to the hardware support for checkerboard rendering in the PS4 Pro: it sounds great in the context of a Digital Foundry puff piece, but in practice it's so much of deviation of how all the other platforms work that I can't see third party developers bothering with it.
Shil Pencer
Member
You figured out an answer to a question you didnt ask
RedAssedApe
Banned
Basically ever update to dx ever since it was introduced. Haha
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
Scorpio is so powerful it has turned an application programming interface into a physical element inside it's GPU core. This is some next level shit, tech from 2021 or something.
Forza 9 is going to look virtual reality.
Forza 9 is going to look virtual reality.
Well, Xbox 1 already had some command processor enhancements, that gave you more flexibility with ExecuteIndirect calls(used to do scene traversal and culling on the gpu, also known as gpu driven rendering).
I think people are speculating that they've made further improvements.
I grabbed these images from a b3d thread from last year. They're originally from a dice presentation though.
I don't think these enhancements are needed to reduce cpu use significantly with a gpu driven renderer though.
Well, sebbbi said the engine he worked on back at redlynx used to use 3 cores on console for scene setup and culling, and when those tasks were switched to the gpu it basically freed up all 3 cores.
I'll try to find his post about it.
And intel made that one demo that used executeindirect as well.
http://www.dsogaming.com/news/direc...proves-performance-greatly-reduces-cpu-usage/
Jaguar Victory
Member
In theory and the way it's described it seems like a cool addition to the SOC to free up CPU resources. As an enthusiast I want to believe. Either way, we'll get some developer impressions soon enough.
Matt - have you had access to the XDK and ran any tests?
Matt - have you had access to the XDK and ran any tests?
Here it was.
https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/...a-useful-reference.46956/page-10#post-1866698
So they went from using 3 cores, to .2ms on a single core.
I'm sure the results and applicability of these functions will vary though.
therealjay
Neo Member
It's a shame they are using SoC's even on these superpowered consoles.
They need to split the CPU from the GPU if you ever want a console that approaches PC performance a la Xbox 360 in it's first year.
You just can't make a die big enough and cool it properly with the CPU/GPU together. You can split it and toss in a hulking power supply like they used to. Suppose they'd like to make money on these machines though.
People seem to miss that this is the reason this generation never had a Gears of War type of moment where a console had an undisputed best looking game out.
They need to split the CPU from the GPU if you ever want a console that approaches PC performance a la Xbox 360 in it's first year.
You just can't make a die big enough and cool it properly with the CPU/GPU together. You can split it and toss in a hulking power supply like they used to. Suppose they'd like to make money on these machines though.
People seem to miss that this is the reason this generation never had a Gears of War type of moment where a console had an undisputed best looking game out.
FunkyDealer
Banned
It's pretty cool as far as "secret sauce" or "wizards jizz" go. It'll be interesting to see how well the Scorpio CPU does in practice.
thelastword
Banned
Not just the talk about direct x12 hardware that's a bit strange, but pretty much all Polaris GPU's are somewhat more DX12 compliant than current NV offerings based on their GPU engines and their push for Vulkan and DX12 compatibility, or rather lower level api's.
Several wordings were strange in how the console was specified, like what's all this talk about reduced latency with the CPU, making it an evolved Jaguar? combined with a slight uptick to 2.3GHZ.... from 1.75GHz on the XB1 and 2.1 from the PRO.....
It wasn't as technical or explained well as I expected....It just seems to me that many of the features which are basic and common are being extrapolated to be bigger and more revolutionary than it is....First the DX12 hardware and the Evolved Jaguar bit...it's just an overclocked CPU that's been in everything from the XB1, PS4, PRO and 6 months from now, will still be resident in the Scorpio....
Right now, all I want to see are games and performance metrics and analysis, no PR screens of GPU utilization and the like.....I hope E3 delivers...
Several wordings were strange in how the console was specified, like what's all this talk about reduced latency with the CPU, making it an evolved Jaguar? combined with a slight uptick to 2.3GHZ.... from 1.75GHz on the XB1 and 2.1 from the PRO.....
It wasn't as technical or explained well as I expected....It just seems to me that many of the features which are basic and common are being extrapolated to be bigger and more revolutionary than it is....First the DX12 hardware and the Evolved Jaguar bit...it's just an overclocked CPU that's been in everything from the XB1, PS4, PRO and 6 months from now, will still be resident in the Scorpio....
Right now, all I want to see are games and performance metrics and analysis, no PR screens of GPU utilization and the like.....I hope E3 delivers...
BigEmil
Junior Member
PS4 Pro stuff leaked months before it's reveal and also Pro released a year earlier than Scorpio so Microsoft can also learn from Sony after all this time and info of the pro out there.
Give up on that dream. They will likely never go with a discreet CPU and GPU again. It's just too expensive.
dr_rus
Member
Again, what they actually said if you remove all the fanbase targeted PR talk is that they did *something* which results in lower CPU overhead on Scorpio when performing rendering. What this *something* is they didn't tell and thus all of you who are saying things like "moved DX12 to this processor", "encoded it into GPU", etc are just spreading BS.
To give you an example of what such *something* may be is DX12 itself which significantly lowers CPU overhead when compared to DX11. So is this what they are talking about? If not then what?
Another thing is - it's rather strange for a closed off and completely proprietary system to get h/w changes to better support some s/w (API) commands instead of changing the API itself to be more compatible with how the h/w functions. I find it very hard to believe that they've actually made any Scorpio specific changes to the GCN global scheduling (as in beyond those already found in Polaris and Vega revisions of GCN) when it would be miles more forward looking and easier / cheaper to just make a backend for DX which would output GCN binary code to the GPU, removing the need to perform shader compilation in the driver (mono or whatever it's called these days) which is the last thing I can think of in DX12 infrastructure which have any kind of CPU requirement.
These enhancements aren't actually enhancements, it's just exposing the h/w which is in each and every GCN chip out there in Xbox APIs. Same can be true for that DX12 babble.
I can't start my own thread, but a colleague of mine at Ars just asked questions about the biggest thing missing from today's reveal, which I think kinda-sorta ties into talk about DX12 benefits to performance.
More at Ars; feel free to repost/new thread/ignore.
More at Ars; feel free to repost/new thread/ignore.
Even what was mentioned in that dice presentation? Seemed like it was an xbox 1 specific customization.
Brad Grenz
Member
It's not your fault. The Microsoft quotes were deliberately intended to mislead and create the impression that this constitutes some incredible enhancement when it's just DX12 using the command processors that exist in all modern GPUs exactly how they're supposed to. No doubt it's a more capable command processor than what the original Xbox One had, but not in any way that could be considered game changing. It has to be by virtue of needing to dispatch work to a much larger GPU.
I'm not trying to downplay this stuff, because just as with the PS4, or any console before it...Scorpio will punch above it's weight so to speak...
But let's slow our roll before we go calling things a game changer and swallow everything we hear hook, line, and sinker maybe?...
Have we not already been through this with MS already this generation? co-processors, and mono drivers, and DX12 updates...
And Sony with GPGPU, and "supercharged PC" architecture​?
These things all help for sure, don't get me wrong...but let's not get all excited about this thing being capable of running with GPU's that cost more than complete consoles...
But let's slow our roll before we go calling things a game changer and swallow everything we hear hook, line, and sinker maybe?...
Have we not already been through this with MS already this generation? co-processors, and mono drivers, and DX12 updates...
And Sony with GPGPU, and "supercharged PC" architecture​?
These things all help for sure, don't get me wrong...but let's not get all excited about this thing being capable of running with GPU's that cost more than complete consoles...
Head.spawn
Junior Member
There's a lot of things missing though. Also, Bethesda has already stated that they're working pin bringing Fallout 4 VR toScorpio. I don't think it's coincidence that they both scheduled their e3 conference for the same odd day.
Head.spawn
Junior Member
I dont even know how they're managing to sift through all of these massive threads.
Hats off to them.
Sorry for the double, website is acting weird i though i saw other posts at the bottom before i hit submit.
Liabe Brave
Member
If anything, Forza is one of the least demanding games on the console. That's why it can run at 1080p60, unlike most Xbox One games.
This is not what was said. They said the entire set of all draw calls typically requires thousands upon thousands of instructions to the GPU. They also said that in Scorpio, a single draw call takes only 11 instructions. They did not say how many instructions a single draw call takes on other hardware, or the total of all draw calls on Scorpio, so these two numbers are not comparing anything, or showing any improvement.
Banderdash
Member
A dumb question... but what happens when they release Direct X 13?
JeffG
Member
Nothing
FacelessSamurai
..but cry so much I wish I had some
I wouldn't say least demanding when talking about Forza. I'd say being one of the most optimized games on the console is probably accurate though,