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[Principate]

If Nintendo wanted games like Crysis 3 on Wii U, it was their job to cultivate an audience for them. Sony and MS invest vast sums of money into doing just that.

The wii u simply wasn't appealing to that group and for good reason, it wasn't a sizeable enough step up from the previous generation and the next gen consoles were coming. No amount of marketing would have saved it. If it had comparable amount of power to the XB1 for example there would be a tangible reason to pick it up over last gen versions and they could have cut the price to undercut the PS4 and XB1. It wasn't and so remained dead in the water.

 

[Cerium]

Wii U was simply an unattractive product. I'm a huge Nintendo fan and even I never got one.

However I think history will look back on it as a necessary stepping stone to get to the Switch. The Switch works as well as it does because it's a handheld that's actually a step up from the Wii U in specs, so it can credibly serve the docked function as well. Plus Wii U gave Nintendo time to cut their teeth on HD development, and created a backlog of strong titles that could be ported over to give Switch a running start.

 

[manueldelalas]

It has been evident, at least with regards to Switch, that Nintendo is clearly holding off on announcing games, whether it be first-party of third-party. I think this was really evident in the recent Nintendo Direct, where there were Japanese games like Fate/Stay and forgot the other.

It feels more like Nintendo wants folk to simply focus on what they have coming within the next 2-3 months, than 6 months to year timeframe.

Is it though?

So far they've have announced Splatoon, Xenoblade 2, Arms and Mario Odyssey for this year, and Fire Emblem for next year.

That's most of their big first party teams, we are only missing Retro's next game and the Animal Crossing's team next game.

The other rumored stuff is a Smash 4 and Pokemon Sun rereleases. And that should be most of the games they publish from here until a year from now, at least.

I can't say about third party, I don't expect too much for this year to be honest. FIFA, NBA, Skyrim, DQ heroes and Rabbids RPG game from major third parties, not a lot more for this year at least.

IMO, if they announce something out will be strictly for next year, at least for this E3, but we will see.

 

[Hermii]

ARM cortex is PC architecture?

Also of course there was a port to (really export to) Switch option.

lol yep

Devs generally don't care about instruction set, they were probably referring to maxwell gpu.

 

[Skittzo0413]

If Nintendo wanted games like Crysis 3 on Wii U, it was their job to cultivate an audience for them. Sony and MS invest vast sums of money into doing just that.

Isn't the Crysis 3 story that the game was about to be printed when EA canned it? Why is that on Nintendo?

Also didn't several Wii versions of CoD outsell the corresponding PS3 versions? Isn't that evidence that Nintendo has an audience for FPSes?

 

[R.D.Blax]

Isn't the Crysis 3 story that the game was about to be printed when EA canned it? Why is that on Nintendo?

Also didn't several Wii versions of CoD outsell the corresponding PS3 versions? Isn't that evidence that Nintendo has an audience for FPSes?

No way they outsold PS versions, but I'm pretty sure they all sold at least 1 million, even when they were never advertised alongside the other version for some reason...

 

[Ridley327]

No way they outsold PS versions, but I'm pretty sure they all sold at least 1 million, even when they were never advertised alongside the other version for some reason...

IIRC, CoD3 Wii did outsell the PS3 version, but I think that's it as far as the series is concerned.

 

[EDarkness]

No way they outsold PS versions, but I'm pretty sure they all sold at least 1 million, even when they were never advertised alongside the other version for some reason...

I'm pretty sure the early CoD versions (that released on all versions at the same time) sold more than the PS3 versions. I'm sure this wasn't true by the end of the generation once the narratives about each platform was all laid out. Still, the Wii versions sold well, which means there was an audience for those kinds of games. Hell, didn't the original Conduit sell over a million on the system? What about the Goldeneye game that came out on it as well? FPS games can sell on Nintendo hardware.

 

[Father_Brain]

The fact that massively popular IP like AC, CoD, and Arkham bombed as hard as they did on Wii U shows that the audience for Western AAA games simply wasn't there and EA was right.

 

[Oregano]

I think what Father Brain means is that Sony and MS invest billions of dollars in creating and marketing the same experiences as those third parties. It's not a question that stuff like Destiny, Crysis, etc have an audience on those platforms because those platforms are built on that audience.

I think the argument is mostly sound but I don't think Nintendo investing in those types of experiences directly would make any difference. The success of Nintendo titles very rarely seems to influence what is seen as a good fit for those platforms.

The fact that massively popular IP like AC, CoD, and Arkham bombed as hard as they did on Wii U shows that the audience for Western AAA games simply wasn't there and EA was right.

I don't think the audience was there for any third party game. We discussed it before but Bomberman would probably in the top 3 selling third party Wii U games.

 

[EDarkness]

The fact that massively popular IP like AC, CoD, and Arkham bombed as hard as they did on Wii U shows that the audience for Western AAA games simply wasn't there and EA was right.

I can't speak for others, but I bought CoD on the Wii U and I was pissed off that the pre-order map that I was supposed to get wasn't there. There was no DLC coming and if you (as a player) were smart, then you'd avoid the Wii U version. This was known from the beginning (well after we found out we weren't getting the pre-order map). People think this is a trivial thing, but who the hell is gonna buy a game that isn't getting all the new updates that every other version was getting? I wanted to play with remote and nunchuck so I picked it up on the Wii U, there were others who were like me, so there were games to be played online, but I'm sure most sensible folks got the game on a different system.

Not sure how much it hurt Batman, but those videos of the game running like ass on the system by Giant Bomb and the like didn't paint a good picture.

With the Wii U being barely an upgrade over the 360 and PS3, they were facing an uphill battle anyway.

 

[Muchi Muchi Pink]

The fact that massively popular IP like AC, CoD, and Arkham bombed as hard as they did on Wii U shows that the audience for Western AAA games simply wasn't there and EA was right.

Most of the ports were super late and really bad.

 

[Father_Brain]

Most of the ports were super late and really bad.

The 2013 installments of those three franchises were day and date and still bombed.

 

[Skittzo0413]

The fact that massively popular IP like AC, CoD, and Arkham bombed as hard as they did on Wii U shows that the audience for Western AAA games simply wasn't there and EA was right.

The Wii U itself was just conducive to having games bomb, first and third party. Obviously most first party games performed better, and that's always going to happen with Nintendo consoles, but that doesn't mean third party games can't sell well on Nintendo consoles, and the Wii is concrete proof that they can.

You are right that Nintendo needs to do a better job fostering an environment and audience where those games can succeed, but if you actually look at the Switch that's exactly what they're doing. They launched with the most "core" Nintendo game there is in the most "core" genre there currently is- open world games. This should tell AAA third parties that there is an audience for these big games in those genres, rather than if the Switch was bundled with 1, 2, Switch. They also need to assist with marketing some of these games, but the games need to exist before they can be marketed.

 

[funkystudent]

Everything about working with Nintendo sounds like a absolute hassle.

 

[Principate]

The 2013 installments of those three franchises were day and date and still bombed.

In terms of core Nintendo console fans yeah pretty much. There isn't an audience there. Handheld audience is interesting though since handhelds tend to be companion piece thus there maybe ore cross over in terms of audience to those sorts of games (though it's not like western third parties have tried to cultivate it either way on that front.

 

[Oregano]

The 2013 installments of those three franchises were day and date and still bombed.

To be fair at the point the stage had already been set. I think whilst the Wii U would have had to be a fundamentally more appealing product for those games to sell well third parties did themselves no favours.

 

[Waji]

The fact that massively popular IP like AC, CoD, and Arkham bombed as hard as they did on Wii U shows that the audience for Western AAA games simply wasn't there and EA was right.

Everything bombed on Wii U so it doesn't say much.
I'm sure even Splatoon bombed compared to what it could have done on the right console.

I'm absolutely sure some western games could do pretty well on the Switch, released at the right moment.

 

[EDarkness]

They also need to assist with marketing some of these games, but the games need to exist before they can be marketed.

I guess I'm strange, but I think each company needs to support their own game. I've always agreed with Nintendo about this. It gives companies this idea that they deserve to be promoted just because they made a game for a system (doesn't matter what system or what company), when the burden of selling is 100% on the backs of the creator. If the game fails, then they're responsible for this. Otherwise, they use that silly excuse that some company didn't help them promote their game and that's why it failed. There are too many damn games out there for Nintendo, Sony, Steam, Microsoft to be pampering a bunch of companies. If you want to promote your game, get off of your ass and do it. If that company can't do it, then it's their fault.

I hope my game is released later this year, but I don't expect Nintendo or anyone else to promote my game. This is my responsibility and if I fail, that's on me and my ability to do so. They've helped me set things up, but haven't given any input in how to promote my game, and I'm fine with that. Asking for more is silly.

Everything about working with Nintendo sounds like a absolute hassle.

In my experience, this isn't true. They are almost entirely hands off. They pretty much believe and you live and die by your own effort. That's the way it should be.

 

[Nightbird]

The 2013 installments of those three franchises were day and date and still bombed.

Didn't the WiiU hit the market in 2012?

As far as I remember the first year of the Console was weak, really weak.

 

[Skittzo0413]

Everything about working with Nintendo sounds like a absolute hassle.

I'm curious, what about the OP or this thread makes you say that?

I guess I'm strange, but I think each company needs to support their own game. I've always agreed with Nintendo about this. It gives companies this idea that they deserve to be promoted just because they made a game for a system (doesn't matter what system or what company), when the burden of selling is 100% on the backs of the creator. If the game fails, then they're responsible for this. Otherwise, they use that silly excuse that some company didn't help them promote their game and that's why it failed. There are too many damn games out there for Nintendo, Sony, Steam, Microsoft to be pampering a bunch of companies. If you want to promote your game, get off of your ass and do it. If that company can't do it, then it's their fault.

I hope my game is released later this year, but I don't expect Nintendo or anyone else to promote my game. This is my responsibility and if I fail, that's on me and my ability to do so. They've helped me set things up, but haven't given any input in how to promote my game, and I'm fine with that. Asking for more is silly.

In principle I completely agree with you 100%. But that's not the reality of the games industry sadly. Nintendo really needs to be playing ball if they want to have the same level of support as Sony and MS (which isn't necessarily what they want to be fair).

 

[Chindogg]

The 2013 installments of those three franchises were day and date and still bombed.

AC had a sale for the PS4 and X1 versions everywhere, but not Wii U.

CoD sales fell off a cliff shortly after release.

AO pulled DLC for the game shortly after release, killing sales.

Sales were bad due to Wii U being Wii U, but there were other factors that hurt those franchises.

 

[kitchenmotors]

Positive Nintendo thread?

Skyzard & Oregano right on time! It's clockwork accuracy, you can predict their arrival just like the sun rising up.

Hit the nail on the head with this.

It's a bit exhausting.

 

[Nairume]

Didn't the WiiU hit the market in 2012?

As far as I remember the first year of the Console was weak, really weak.

Yeah, it was already clear by the time those games were coming out that the system was failing and third party releases were going to be struggling. In the case of Arkham Origins, it's especially worth remembering that WB also did damage themselves by announcing that the WiiU version was going to be compromised and missing the entire multiplayer mode. It did release at a slightly lower pricepoint, but the damage would have clearly been done in demonstrating that it was a lesser version of the game.

 

[TheMoon]

Most of the ports were super late and really bad.

they actually weren't. they were just frequently painted that way because they weren't visually/performance wise better or slightly worse sometimes which then got fed into the internet hyperbole machine and ...here we are today.

 

[Oregano]

they actually weren't. they were just frequently painted that way because they weren't visually/performance wise better or slightly worse sometimes which then got fed into the internet hyperbole machine and ...here we are today.

Remember when those 360 games looked worse than those 360 games?

 

[EDarkness]

In principle I completely agree with you 100%. But that's not the reality of the games industry sadly. Nintendo really needs to be playing ball if they want to have the same level of support as Sony and MS (which isn't necessarily what they want to be fair).

In my opinion, it doesn't change if people keep conforming, so I give Nintendo props for sticking to their guns. I believe in that philosophy whole-heartedly so their ideas align with mine. My little experience with Microsoft recently gives me the impression that they don't want to be doing a bunch of promoting like that either. If someone wants to bring over their game, that's fine, but they don't seem to be going out of their way to make that happen. I can understand and respect that. I hope that Nintendo and other companies stick to their guns on this.

they actually weren't. they were just frequently painted that way because they weren't visually/performance wise better or slightly worse sometimes which then got fed into the internet hyperbole machine and ...here we are today.

Yeah. There were a lot of videos and photos of Wii U games running bad or missing stuff. It wasn't pretty. Getting my CoD pre-order map 2 years later sucked.

 

[Jaded Alyx]

they actually weren't. they were just frequently painted that way because they weren't visually/performance wise better or slightly worse sometimes which then got fed into the internet hyperbole machine and ...here we are today.

Many had no dlc or not all the DLC, or didn't get patches while other versions did, or had entire multiplayer modes missing etc.

 

[Oregano]

In my opinion, it doesn't change if people keep conforming, so I give Nintendo props for sticking to their guns. I believe in that philosophy whole-heartedly so their ideas align with mine. My little experience with Microsoft recently gives me the impression that they don't want to be doing a bunch of promoting like that either. If someone wants to bring over their game, that's fine, but they don't seem to be going out of their way to make that happen. I can understand and respect that. I hope that Nintendo and other companies stick to their guns on this.

The problem with that is that it opens up the opportunity for Sony to scoop up all that goodwill and you end up in situations where indie devs openly talk shit about MS/Nintendo and praise Sony. We've seen it on GAF multiple times.

 

[TheMoon]

Remember when those 360 games looked worse than those 360 games?

That was a good time. Oh, Giant Bomb. ...

 

[foxuzamaki]

If Nintendo wanted games like Crysis 3 on Wii U, it was their job to cultivate an audience for them. Sony and MS invest vast sums of money into doing just that.

Thats not how that work EA cancelled the game despite developers saying it was literally done and ready to ship

 

[EDarkness]

The problem with that is that it opens up the opportunity for Sony to scoop up all that goodwill and you end up in situations where indie devs openly talk shit about MS/Nintendo and praise Sony. We've seen it on GAF multiple times.

Sure, but I think Sony will figure out that this way of doing things isn't good and will back off of it eventually.

 

[The Technomancer]

Yeah they're taking their sweet time... Maybe UE4 implementation wasn't fully ready for launch and it has been since only recently? Snake pass was a smaller game that didn't need so much time? dunno...

I mean I think the answer to this is obvious: no-one had any clue how the Switch was going to do, and had good reason (Wii U) to be skeptical, and Nintendo is tight fisted with dev kits. I would expect to hear a lot more "we're working on something" this year for stuff releasing in 2018

 

[Principate]

AC had a sale for the PS4 and X1 versions everywhere, but not Wii U.

CoD sales fell off a cliff shortly after release.

AO pulled DLC for the game shortly after release, killing sales.

Sales were bad due to Wii U being Wii U, but there were other factors that hurt those franchises.

Yeah but these are launch games and they sold badly, that's not how It usually or is supposed to go unless things are really bad. Konami charged $40 for a 30fps and rudimentary Bomberman port and is making bank. That's how launches are supposed to go on successful systems. 3rd parties expect to be able to screw over consumers like that at launch because they really want games this happened with both the PS4 and XB1 with the price hike at launch for many titles that subdued. Consumers just plain didn't want those games if they were absolutely perfect it wouldn't have changed a thing.

 

[TheMoon]

Many had no dlc or not all the DLC, or didn't get patches while other versions did, or had entire multiplayer modes missing etc.

that's bad/no support because the games didn't perform as they would have liked.

 

[EDarkness]

that's bad/no support because the games didn't perform as they would have liked.

Some of these decisions were made before the system was even released, so we had no idea how it was going to sell. I remember on release day Ubisoft said Assassin's Creed 3 wouldn't have DLC for a while. While not a problem by itself, but with so many other things starting to pile up, it was just one more thing in a sea of many things. Things weren't looking good at that time.

 

[TheMoon]

Some of these decisions were made before the system was even released, so we had no idea how it was going to sell. I remember on release day Ubisoft said Assassin's Creed 3 wouldn't have DLC for a while. While not a problem by itself, but with so many other things starting to pile up, it was just one more thing in a sea of many things. Things weren't looking good at that time.

ironically, AC3 was one of the only games that ended up with its full DLC slate released on Wii U.

iirc, there was also this bizarre problem that the Wii U eShop wasn't really ready for DLC at launch or something. Hazy on the details, been a while^^

 

[Triplicates]

Wii U ports of the multiplayer mega blockbusters were always third rate because Nintendo doesn't have the online infrastructure to make them work. The eShop was horrible and the friend system was arcane. They succeed based on their multiplayer dimension, so you can't just dismiss those as minor concessions. Nintendo needs to fix that when it launches its service for the Switch.

If they can do that, Nintendo is in a better position than ever before to recapture part of that demographic because portability seems like a powerful enough draw to get some to prefer a Switch version. I'd love to see how feature parity PS4/XBO/NSW releases fare; I expect a few actually do well enough to justify the effort.

 

[TheMoon]

Wii U ports of the multiplayer mega blockbusters were always third rate because Nintendo doesn't have the online infrastructure to make them work. The eShop was horrible and the friend system was arcane. They succeed based on their multiplayer dimension, so you can't just dismiss those as minor concessions. Nintendo needs to fix that when it launches its service for the Switch.

wrong platform, mate. friend system on Wii U was fine.

 

[Principate]

Wii U ports of the multiplayer mega blockbusters were always third rate because Nintendo doesn't have the online infrastructure to make them work. The eShop was horrible and the friend system was arcane. They succeed based on their multiplayer dimension, so you can't just dismiss those as minor concessions. Nintendo needs to fix that when it launches its service for the Switch.

If they can do that, Nintendo is in a better position than ever before to recapture part of that demographic because portability seems like a powerful enough draw to get some to prefer a Switch version. I'd love to see how feature parity PS4/XBO/NSW releases fare; I expect a few actually do well enough to justify the effort.

Fifa is honestly the biggest test and most likely to fail due to EA not giving a shit. There isn't a more ideal game for the switch third party wise than fifa. In uni I saw people playing shitty versions of fifa on their phone and tablet all the damn time. A full featured version would be guaranteed to sell a ton in the UK is marketed properly I just the switch version is almost certainly a legacy port and won't be properly advertised.

 

[Oregano]

Sure, but I think Sony will figure out that this way of doing things isn't good and will back off of it eventually.

Why would they when it's easy PR?

ironically, AC3 was one of the only games that ended up with its full DLC slate released on Wii U.

iirc, there was also this bizarre problem that the Wii U eShop wasn't really ready for DLC at launch or something. Hazy on the details, been a while^^

Speaking of that I downloaded the DLC for Blaster Master Zero on Switch before and it was so quick and snappy compared to 3DS and Wii U.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

It's a lot harder to coordinate business meetings with a foreign entity if you have not established an office in the same country. You can't just contact NCL through Nintendo of America or Europe to discuss your engine working on their hardware without significant bureaucratical delay.

I can see bureaucratic issues with highly regulated industries like pharmaceuticals, but videogames?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying

 

[Chindogg]

Fifa is honestly the biggest test and most likely to fail due to EA not giving a shit. There isn't a more ideal game for the switch third party wise than fifa. In uni I saw people playing shitty versions of fifa on their phone and tablet all the damn time. A full featured version would be guaranteed to sell a ton in the UK is marketed properly I just the switch version is almost certainly a legacy port and won't be properly advertised.

Watch FIFA still sell well because it's on Switch and EA quickly churns out another FIFA on par with the modern architecture the other consoles have.

I can see bureaucratic issues with highly regulated industries like pharmaceuticals, but videogames?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying

It's with all businesses, especially in Japan. There needs to be an actual relationship established to get talks going. Creating a game studio basically gave Epic an avenue to talk to Nintendo directly though their development channels.

 

[Oregano]

Watch FIFA still sell well because it's on Switch and EA quickly churns out another FIFA on par with the modern architecture the other consoles have.

It's EA. The only two results will be no FIFA next year or Legacy Edition FIFA next year.

 

[Hilarion]

I don't think the audience was there for any third party game. We discussed it before but Bomberman would probably in the top 3 selling third party Wii U games.

Didn't Sonic & All Stars Racing Transformed and Sonic Lost World do well?

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

The Wii U could run Crysis 3, so yeah the Switch could definitely do so much better. The way people talk about AAA games being downgraded massively on the Switch is kinda ridiculous considering that.

It'll be nice to hopefully see some solid evidence of this at E3.

To be fair Snake Pass had to be lowered to sub 720p resolution when docked. Games can definitely be downgraded to run on Switch but I think certain games (open World that really tax the CPU and GPU) will be a step too far for some developers / publishers to bother.

 

[ViciousDS]

Why?

Japan......that's the only reason I can think of. They have an insane xenophobia problem.

So by having a native branch there for epic games allowed them to finally discuss terms maybe?

 

[Oregano]

Didn't Sonic & All Stars Racing Transformed and Sonic Lost World do well?

Sonic and Sega All Stars Racing Tranformed did relatively well but overall the game had quite low sales, I doubt any non-PC SKU did 500k.

Lost World we have no idea how it did but it was also a First Party game.

To be fair Snake Pass had to be lowered to sub 720p resolution when docked. Games can definitely be downgraded to run on Switch but I think certain games (open World that really tax the CPU and GPU) will be a step too far for some developers / publishers to bother.

It's also sub-900p on PS4 too though so if it was 1080p on PS4 it would presumably be higher than 720p on Switch. I think people could live with downports running at 480p/720p though.

 

[Skittzo0413]

To be fair Snake Pass had to be lowered to sub 720p resolution when docked. Games can definitely be downgraded to run on Switch but I think certain games (open World that really tax the CPU and GPU) will be a step too far for some developers / publishers to bother.

You're leaving out that it's sub 900p on PS4 though, which makes the comparison much more favorable. Snake Pass is an exception when it comes to actual resolution, though I don't know how much of that is due to UE4 and how much is due to the game and developers itself.

But in general the Switch is a lot more powerful than a lot of people on this forum are giving it credit for, especially when you look at some of the Wii U's games. Like the Crysis 3 example- that was ready to ship for the Wii U before it got axed by EA. People like to act like Switch multiplats would need to be downgraded to like PS2 levels, but if even the Wii U could run Crysis 3 then the Switch can do even a good deal better than that.

 

[Herb Alpert]

Hey what is this thread?

It's a third party on a Nintendo platform thread !