Maybe I'm being too optimistic then. I got the impression he took the Dyson interview to heart, and yes he was being defensive with Cube but I still think he was sincere when he said he was "evolving" and listening. Time will tell. If he steps in it again I'm fully prepared to admit I was completely wrong, but at 60 years old I don't think its too late for him to change.
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Thats our word, and you cant have it back: Ice Cube confronts Bill Maher
- Thread starter Loudninja
- Start date
Maybe I'm being too optimistic then. I got the impression he took the Dyson interview to heart, and yes he was being defensive with Cube but I still think he was sincere when he said he was "evolving" and listening. Time will tell. If he steps in it again I'm fully prepared to admit I was completely wrong, but at 60 years old I don't think its too late for him to change.
Frozenprince
Banned
Fucking never won't be weird to me how Cube can go from real to children's movie actor at the drop of a hat.
There was an old white dude that when i was kid that use to call me Punjub, i didn't care for him even without knowing how fucked up that was. But couldn't say anything because he use to bring my grandma collard greens and tomatoes fresh out the ground.
Could you imagine being his kid?
Frozenprince
Banned
I see we're still on that "it's comedy" tip since that's a nebulous and eternal catch all when you get caught saying dumb shit.
The joke doesn't even fucking work when the person saying it isn't black. It really is a weak defense.
excelsiorlef
Member
It's amazing how as children we're taught it's just a joke is not an excuse but for adult comedians it's a free pass to say whatever the fuck you want and any criticism is a chilling effect on "free speech".
Literally from any thread on comedians being morons you'd think they were the oppressed group with the way some folks flock to defend them.
Captin Quacker
Member
I think a big issue when folk approach this conversation, is that there under the impression that the playing field is even, that no one has the high ground when it's never been that way for black people
"If you are not black you don't get a say in the discussion" seems like a pretty fucked up viewpoint to me.
Personally I like what Drifting Spirit has said in this thread in response to the Asian person that said "nigga" to his black friends. If you aren't black, and if you say the n-word, you shouldn't automatically expect that your audience will accept it. If your group of black friends are okay with it, doesn't mean that every black person will be okay with it.
Personally I like what Drifting Spirit has said in this thread in response to the Asian person that said "nigga" to his black friends. If you aren't black, and if you say the n-word, you shouldn't automatically expect that your audience will accept it. If your group of black friends are okay with it, doesn't mean that every black person will be okay with it.
excelsiorlef
Member
But that's only half of the discussion, and I'm fairly certain that nobody here disagrees on that part.
Captin Quacker
Member
So is watching black people get gunned down by police then watching them get off Scott free
That word has been used against black people for hundreds of years to make us feel less than human. It ain't up to anyone else to decide how the word should be used.
Thank you for whitesplaining that to us.
Frozenprince
Banned
Pretty sure the people that the word was used to demean and debase for 400+ years get final, ultimate say on the word makes perfect sense.
Maybe that's just me.
Maybe that's just me.
You would think.
There really isn't a dicussion to be had about who can say it or not. If you're not black, don't say it.
Now the discussion about whether or not black folks should be saying it, is not for folks who aren't black.
It's none of your business what we find acceptable among us.
Not just white folks, non-black PoC don't have a pass either.
CountAntonius
Member
Fantastic and honest explanation that isn't hard to understand. Very well put.
I mean. It really IS that simple.
excelsiorlef
Member
I'll expand non black folk period shouldn't use it
Also no one who isn't black should tell black folk how to handle the word either
So there's the other half.
Yeah I expanded to that. I shouldn't have left that out of my first post though.
Well I'm not white.
Jeffolation
Banned
We need you Tipper Gore, now more than ever.
If you are welling to accept history and context, please speak on it. But chances are if you did you wouldn't want to say it
You're applying a white state of mind to try and "dumb" down arguments for blacks i.e. whitesplaining
Frozenprince
Banned
"But what about"
No.
"What if"
No.
"But"
No.
Are you black? Then the answer to every single question or "feeling" you have about this issue is "no" unless that answer is "only black folks get to decide this shit".
No.
"What if"
No.
"But"
No.
Are you black? Then the answer to every single question or "feeling" you have about this issue is "no" unless that answer is "only black folks get to decide this shit".
Captin Quacker
Member
Until they say it in front of the wrong people
I mean, nothing else needs to be said on the matter. This should be the beginning and end of the conversation, I'm not sure why people keep arguing with ifs, ands, and buts.
excelsiorlef
Member
More common compared to when exactly?
I'm not trying to dumb down any argument. All I'm saying is I don't agree that non-blacks don't get to participate in the discussion. You can say I'm wrong and disagree. I might very well be wrong but I don't get why you think I'm whitesplaining or "condescendingly trying to dumb down an argument".
My opinion is the word historically has been used to dehumanize blacks and for that reason non-black people should not use the word. That's an opinion that 99% of the people would probably agree with in this thread.
Frozenprince
Banned
There is no discussion.
None.
If you're not black, don't use the word, period, that's the discussion.
None.
If you're not black, don't use the word, period, that's the discussion.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Edit: Oh I misread the statement. Uh, only black people get to determine the gravity of the word. It after all has been used to oppress them for hundreds of years. The opinion from somebody who wasn't a victim to that shouldn't get to to be taken as serious input.
excelsiorlef
Member
The role in the "conversation" for non black people is to tell other non black people to not say it
To ever. Its become a culture in itself, which makes you really question whats going on when you look at the execs who benefit from it and look how they look.
I know for a fact, and Ice Cube was guilty of this with Heller, that there is a nonblack element in the music industry who gets off on showcasing a stereotypical and fetishistic version of black culture to the world as a commodity so that they can get rich.
Black Americans have been calling each other nigga for decades, but this wasn't common knowledge to anybody outside of the immediate family until certain people began mass producing and selling "our" culture for their own benefit. Now every tom, dick, and Harry from Reykjavik to San Pedro Sula can pick up a nicely wrapped piece of black exploitation, and drop the word with their friends with no shame of thinking they are racist because they accept what is "Sold" to them. Its normalized, and Maher only caved because he, and his show, speaks to old people who haven't accepted the new world which has been produced by Music execs. When they go the younger generations will roll over.
Fast Forward
Member
I have liked Ice Cube ever since I first seen him in Boyz N the Hood when I was a kid in the mid 90s, but after this, the dude has become my hero.
Other than talking about how no one but black people should say it, what does a non-black person contribute to this conversation?
spazchicken
Member
Maher: Ok, the point has been made already.
Cube: Not by me.
Cube: Not by me.
Chie Satonaka
Member
This is the truth, but they have feelings about it, so it's important that we hear them, or some stupid bullshit.
excelsiorlef
Member
To ever?
Really?
You want to talk normalize? The N word use to basically be the word to use to refer to black folk but somehow now because of rap and shit it's more common than ever?
Come on.
The Asian person in this thread mentioned using the word "nigga" freely with his black friends in Fort Knox. And he stopped using it when he left because he smartly knew that he should not expect that he will always be able to use the word without being looked down on or chastised with other blacks. Blacks aren't a hive mind and don't agree on everything (someone else's words from this thread).
That's a non-hypothetical and a real world example (from this thread) of someone non-black using the n-word in what I think is a not necessarily acceptable but understandable situation.
That's a non-black person (the Asian Gaffer in this thread) who I believe has a say in this discussion. And when I mention "he has a say" I don't mean that he can dictate the rules that the entire black race in the USA have to follow. I just mean that I want to hear his two cents. That's all.
Pinko Marx
Banned
If you're not black you don't get to have a say in how to use the word. Period. Let the black community discuss amongst itself the word.
No, it's not fair. But neither are a lot of things, and if we're keeping score, most of y'all got a few points on us. So how about you let us have something to ourselves?
Maybe once things start to even out a little more, we'll all sit down to discuss the Elephant sized Nigga in the room.
That's just my view on it.
No, it's not fair. But neither are a lot of things, and if we're keeping score, most of y'all got a few points on us. So how about you let us have something to ourselves?
Maybe once things start to even out a little more, we'll all sit down to discuss the Elephant sized Nigga in the room.
That's just my view on it.
Professor Beef
Banned
"but that's not faaaiiirrrr!"
Nigger was, but that isnt the version kids are saying to each other. They are calling each other niggas. That is almost certainly wasn't something that was happening forever.
We can blame rap for every kid calling their friends, and themselves, niggas. They normalized it.
IrishNinja
Member
literally anyone bothered by the dynamics of language & think it's "hypocritical" of cube to say a word belongs to a culture that's not yours: congrats on leaning towards the fuckboys, take a moment of self-reflection here if possible
preach
the longform of "showing your ass" right here
this is the soft version of "white nationalist" vs supremicist/nazi/etc; you're highlighting groups that, at best, are just ignorant as fuck/not caring, so why anyone should pay them any mind is beyond me
wait, what's this about? who said it was cool?
honestly as a big fan of Mike, i started to notice the crack with his slew of "FUCK PC CULTURE" posts for a bit there, now we're reaching this awkward point where i fucks hard with tracks like Reagan but am putting him next to KRS with MC's i love most of their works but don't wanna hear shit from them out of the studio
cube arguably put out several classics and unlike most rappers, found he could act - a lane that rips you off far less than he saw in NWA & even solo. i literally can't imagine not jumping headfirst at the chance to break out of that bullshit and have nothing but love for dude doing so, there's so very many MC's that would follow if they could
same bullshit ass argument used for rap is to blame for black on black violence/etc
lots of genres do foul/violent shit but don't get blamed when dumb shit happens - i don't care what you hear on the radio, you should know better
let's follow this dumbass train of logic
should only actual pimps buy albums by UGK, Too $hort, Rappin 4 Tay etc? should you actually have to body a dude before buying detroit trap shit, Gucci, etc? you can't be this dense. there's lots of things in music you don't emulate in real life, for reasons that, again, are obvious with even a moments thought
yeah lemme go listen to classic rock, metal, some manson etc and do things that are very clearly said for imagery/fantasy there and see how that goes - oh wait, white artists aren't held to the same standard, my bad
preach
the longform of "showing your ass" right here
this is the soft version of "white nationalist" vs supremicist/nazi/etc; you're highlighting groups that, at best, are just ignorant as fuck/not caring, so why anyone should pay them any mind is beyond me
wait, what's this about? who said it was cool?
honestly as a big fan of Mike, i started to notice the crack with his slew of "FUCK PC CULTURE" posts for a bit there, now we're reaching this awkward point where i fucks hard with tracks like Reagan but am putting him next to KRS with MC's i love most of their works but don't wanna hear shit from them out of the studio
cube arguably put out several classics and unlike most rappers, found he could act - a lane that rips you off far less than he saw in NWA & even solo. i literally can't imagine not jumping headfirst at the chance to break out of that bullshit and have nothing but love for dude doing so, there's so very many MC's that would follow if they could
same bullshit ass argument used for rap is to blame for black on black violence/etc
lots of genres do foul/violent shit but don't get blamed when dumb shit happens - i don't care what you hear on the radio, you should know better
let's follow this dumbass train of logic
should only actual pimps buy albums by UGK, Too $hort, Rappin 4 Tay etc? should you actually have to body a dude before buying detroit trap shit, Gucci, etc? you can't be this dense. there's lots of things in music you don't emulate in real life, for reasons that, again, are obvious with even a moments thought
yeah lemme go listen to classic rock, metal, some manson etc and do things that are very clearly said for imagery/fantasy there and see how that goes - oh wait, white artists aren't held to the same standard, my bad
Black-Wind
Member
I was always seeing it in the larger scale here, not just some interpersonal stuff cause ... that's kinda the point here.
By saying "That's OUR word!" someone's speaking in terms larger than them self which includes people like me in this case. I think it's stupid to use such words for people you like as terms of endearment ... so it's kinda really makes no sense to try to speak for me or others that share my opinion when trying to limit the use of the word to just "only blacks towards blacks or w/e they feel like using it towards".
Its not bullshit because its true. Where did all of these kids hear "Nigga" at?
It isnt a new phenom, but people in this thread have noticed that all kinds of kids are referring to themselves and their friends with this term. Who normalized it? What songs are they listening to?
BlazinSkatinAxel
Member
This.
Mr.Shrugglesツ;239993963 said:
Why is that a bad thing? People learn as they age. Not every gets the same wake up early.
Done.
It's really not difficult to grasp, unless of course you just don't want to.