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‘That’s our word, and you can’t have it back’: Ice Cube confronts Bill Maher

B

biggersmaller

Banned
He used the N word to refer to himself. He didn't direct at another person nor was it within context of attacking African American's as a whole. He was still very wrong. But he knew he fucked up. He apologized and has Ice Cube on his show along with others to reinforce that fact. But he also had prominent African Americans before this show aired stating they had Maher's back.

Im not saying you have to like Bill Maher, but people are treating him like a FOX NEWS employee who made personal racist attacks against staff or a radio show host who screamed broad racist remarks to further a propaganda machine.

Some things still matter to me. Context. Intent. Apologies. AND how members of the affected group react.

Future said:
Really have no idea how anyone could have that impression after that show. Literally said he did shit wrong. Had people on the show lecturing him on how wrong it was. He addressed directly that there are certain things he doesn't apologize for, but this one deserved it.

At this point, you are either willing to hear an apology or you are not. It sounds like many here simply are not
Click to expand...

Yup.
 
H

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
MagnaderAlpha said:
He kinda was in House 2, maybe not the MAIN main villain, but a condescending asshole who'd wind up stealing the main guy's girl:
house-ii-bill-maher.jpg
Click to expand...

I always forget he is in that movie and then I'll be watching it and he pops up and its just like,"Yeah that fits"
 
E

EdibleKnife

Member
biggersmaller said:
Im not saying you have to like Bill Maher, but people are treating him like a FOX NEWS employee who made personal racist attacks against staff or a radio show host who screamed broad racist remarks to further a propaganda machine.
Click to expand...

People are treating him fairly because he has a history of not really learning lessons and reveling in the fact that he pisses people off and doesn't give a fuck. The difference we expect between someone who claims to be progressive like Maher and Fox News is humility and the ability to acknowledge you've done something wrong without acting like the people you've pissed off are just PC police and you're the innocent victim.
 
H

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
biggersmaller said:
He used the N word to refer to himself. He didn't direct at another person nor was it within context of attacking African American's as a whole. He was still very wrong. But he knew he fucked up. He apologized and has Ice Cube on his show along with others to reinforce that fact. But he also had prominent African Americans before this show aired stating they had Maher's back.

Im not saying you have to like Bill Maher, but people are treating him like a FOX NEWS employee who made personal racist attacks against staff or a radio show host who screamed broad racist remarks to further a propaganda machine.

Some things still matter to me. Context. Intent. Apologies. AND how members of the affected group react.



Yup.
Click to expand...

The thing is some people will never ever accept that word from a white person except in a few very specific contexts and this was not one of them. Bill can say or do whatever he wants after the fact but he said it, he said it freely and easily and he made it in a joke about slavery at that. He's gonna wear that crown now even if he came onto the show crying his eyes out or sat their stone faced and dismissive. That and the fact you bring up things like context and intent and don't seem to consider the context and intent around a white man using it as part of a bit in this day and age or the long history of such things and why it isn't something you should do if you're not black.
 
B

Badabing

Time ta STEP IT UP
Maybe the word comes more naturally because Americans hear it all the time in pop culture. It amazes me how artists casually throw it into their song or joke, and expect no other person of color to hear that song or joke or even repeat it. This word gets way too much exposure.

Fact is, if you want this word to fade out of our lexicon you should probably stop using it yourself. If black people collectively refuse to say the word just like whites then we can all stop saying it and point the finger at Bill Maher. Otherwise, it was just a shitty joke gone wrong in this specific case anyway.
 
E

EdibleKnife

Member
Badabing said:
Maybe the word comes more naturally because Americans hear it all the time in pop culture. It amazes me how artists casually throw it into their song or joke, and expect no other person of color to hear that song or joke or even repeat it. This word gets way too much exposure.

Fact is, if you want this word to fade out of our lexicon you should probably stop using it yourself. If black people collectively refuse to say the word just like whites then we can all stop saying it and point the finger at Bill Maher. Otherwise, it was just a shitty joke gone wrong in this specific case anyway.
Click to expand...

Black people collectively have refused to be owned by white slave owners. Black people have collectively begged for their rights as humans. Black people have collectively asked for equality. Things we didn't do to ourselves. And you know what? They never got it. So why even attempt to paint a picture about white people actually respecting black peoples wishes when it historically hasn't worked out like that?
 
B

biggersmaller

Banned
HStallion said:
The thing is some people will never ever accept that word from a white person except in a few very specific contexts and this was not one of them. Bill can say or do whatever he wants after the fact but he said it, he said it freely and easily and he made it in a joke about slavery at that. He's gonna wear that crown now even if he came onto the show crying his eyes out or sat their stone faced and dismissive. That and the fact you bring up things like context and intent and don't seem to consider the context and intent around a white man using it as part of a bit in this day and age or the long history of such things and why it isn't something you should do if you're not black.
Click to expand...

Here's the thing, in my experience - and this is my experience here. The loudest and most angry people I've heard go to war on this are white people who feel they have to defend African Americans. When many prominent liberal African Americans are defending him, that's also something I consider.

EDIT: And by "go to war" I don't mean what Cube said about Maher being wrong for using that word. I agree 100% with Cube on that. I was referring to people calling Maher a racist, bigot, or a Nazi.
 
M

Mr.Shrugglesツ

Banned
biggersmaller said:
He used the N word to refer to himself. He didn't direct at another person nor was it within context of attacking African American's as a whole. He was still very wrong. But he knew he fucked up. He apologized and has Ice Cube on his show along with others to reinforce that fact. But he also had prominent African Americans before this show aired stating they had Maher's back.

Im not saying you have to like Bill Maher, but people are treating him like a FOX NEWS employee who made personal racist attacks against staff or a radio show host who screamed broad racist remarks to further a propaganda machine.

Some things still matter to me. Context. Intent. Apologies. AND how members of the affected group react.



Yup.
Click to expand...

Mother fucker was literally trying to handwave cube while he was dropping knowledge.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Oh my fucking god white people just don't use the N word

Its super easy

There are eight hundred million other words in the english language
 
K

Kreed

Member
Korey said:
Here, I made a flowchart:

x9J2mAP.gif
Click to expand...

It all comes down to respect. No matter how many "as a Black man..." or "no one should say it..." posters are summoned into this thread, if you do not identify as Black, do not say the word out of respect for Black people in general. There will always be people who say "no one should say it" or have "my friends were cool with me saying it" stories, etc... but as long as Black people in general do not want Non Black people saying the word, if you respect them in general you won't say it around them. Only people who think social issues work in a vacuum and ignore context and history are concerned about Black people saying the word in regards to Non Black people not being able to say it. "Why do we need Black History Month", "What about White Entertainment Television", "Why aren't there Historically White Colleges", etc... nonsense that ignores the social context and reasons for why they exist for Black people in the first place. You might not know the full history, or fully understand the context, etc..., but you can understand respect. Your parents, friends, etc... all have different rules. Maybe you have a friend that tells you to take your shoes off when you come in their house? Maybe your parents tell you not to put your elbows on the table? Well the average non "As a Black man..." Black person is asking Non Black people not to say the word. Respect the request or don't.
 
B

Badabing

Time ta STEP IT UP
EdibleKnife said:
Black people collectively have refused to be owned by white slave owners. Black people have collectively begged for their rights as humans. Black people have collectively asked for equality. Things we didn't do to ourselves. And you know what? They never got it. So why even attempt to paint a picture about white people actually respecting black peoples wishes when it historically hasn't worked out like that?
Click to expand...

Well it's clearly taboo for Bill Maher to say it, so I think white people collectively recognize it's not to be used.

Now I'm suggesting that it should be taboo for Ice Cube to say it. Then it will finally go away.
 
D

DigtialT

Member
Badabing said:
Well it's clearly taboo for Bill Maher to say it, so I think white people collectively recognize it's not to be used.

Now I'm suggesting that it should be taboo for Ice Cube to say it. Then it will finally go away.
Click to expand...

Because you white people can't stand when black people have something you can't
 
E

EdibleKnife

Member
Badabing said:
Well it's clearly taboo for Bill Maher to say it, so I think white people collectively recognize it's not to be used.

Now I'm suggesting that it should be taboo for Ice Cube to say it. Then it will finally go away.
Click to expand...

I don't want it to go away. I don't say it. I don't like hearing it. But if some black people feel they want it, they're completely entitled to it for all time and that's something everyone, particularly white people, should get over.
 
M

Measley

Junior Member
Christ, it's simple people; If you aren't black don't use the N word. You have ZERO reason to ever say that word unless you want to be racist or "edgy". You could get socked in the face for either reason.

I don't get why this is so hard for people to understand.
 
M

moggio

Banned
Ms.Galaxy said:
The only time I feel that it's okay for a white person to say the N-word is the same time Germany feels when it's okay to show Nazi symbolism. For historical purposes only.

A white teacher talking about the N-word and other slurs that were used to demonize blacks in an American History Class? Sure.

Outside of that, don't use it. At all.
Click to expand...

Yes, but must be examples of non-black people using the word that can be justified by the context they are using it in.

For example Stewart Lee uses it here as reportage in a routine about Political Correctness Gone Mad:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99s19HBs-6A

That is probably the less contentious example I can think of.

I know Louis CK uses it in a routine of his but I've not seen it so not sure how successful his point was.

Frank Zappa uses it various times, most notably in the songs You Are What You Is and Nig Biz .

I can't think of any more off-hand.

Has Andrew Dice Clay ever made a thoughtful joke about racial identity?

Probably not.
 
L

Lightning_Roller

Banned
Badabing said:
Well it's clearly taboo for Bill Maher to say it, so I think white people collectively recognize it's not to be used.

Now I'm suggesting that it should be taboo for Ice Cube to say it. Then it will finally go away.
Click to expand...

You're naive as hell. And I hate when folks like you say "Blacks can't say this."
 
C

Caddywompus

Member
OG Shaka Zulu said:
Black people saying it has nothing to do with "nigger" being said in the white community.

Let's be honest, the only time White people hear Blacks saying it really or why this is even a "controversy" is due to rap. Rap blew up in the late 70s... I'm sorry dude nigger was alive and well in white America when rap was born (as it still is today). There are roughly 200+M white people in the US. They don't all listen to rap, and homogeneously white communities are all over the place so most don't even interact with Black people... yet nigger is still alive and well in these white communities. Black people have nothing to do with that.

People understand completely but being white in America and told "no" is too much for some.
Click to expand...

That's the perfect way to frame it when you hear rap spun as the main reason the word still exists. It's an easy target to shift blame on and use it as an excuse why white people are still familiar with the word.

If there were any truth to this idea, we would hear other non-offensive slang words found in rap used commonly by white people in regular everyday conversations.
 
rackham

rackham

Banned
I think the problem people have with Bill Maher is how comfortable he is saying controversial shit. It's ok to be controversial but when your argument for using a word that hurts an entire group of unrelated people based on their skin color is because you're not trying to hurt them, it's stupid.
 
R

Ran rp

Member
Badabing said:
Well it's clearly taboo for Bill Maher to say it, so I think white people collectively recognize it's not to be used.

Now I'm suggesting that it should be taboo for Ice Cube to say it. Then it will finally go away.
Click to expand...

So it's the Blacks' fault it's still here huh.
 
G

GhostTrick

Banned
As far as I'm concerned, I always think that using a racial slur was bad no matter your skin color, because no matter what, I believe it is degrading.

Although, the idea that "it's okay to say it because black people says the n-word" is fuckin ridiculous. It's because they are black people that they can say it. You can use a bad word against yourself but it doesnt mean it's acceptable for someone else to use it against you.


Badabing said:
Maybe the word comes more naturally because Americans hear it all the time in pop culture. It amazes me how artists casually throw it into their song or joke, and expect no other person of color to hear that song or joke or even repeat it. This word gets way too much exposure.

Fact is, if you want this word to fade out of our lexicon you should probably stop using it yourself. If black people collectively refuse to say the word just like whites then we can all stop saying it and point the finger at Bill Maher. Otherwise, it was just a shitty joke gone wrong in this specific case anyway.
Click to expand...


It doesnt work like this. This word will always exist and it's not because black people stop saying it that white people will be like "no one use that word anymore ? Good, no reason to ever use it". You'll always have racist people using it and thinking that black people should stop using it because they make it a normal word is a silly idea.
 
M

Mahonay

Banned
As others said, if you're white, the N word should never leave your lips.

I have a black sister and have had lots of black friends my entire life. It's never crossed my mind that it gives me some sort or pass to add it into my personal vocabulary. It's actually had the opposite effect. I will immediately call other white people out who just throw it out there. I don't stand for it.
 
E

Elegant Weapon

Member
Badabing said:
Maybe the word comes more naturally because Americans hear it all the time in pop culture. It amazes me how artists casually throw it into their song or joke, and expect no other person of color to hear that song or joke or even repeat it. This word gets way too much exposure.

Fact is, if you want this word to fade out of our lexicon you should probably stop using it yourself. If black people collectively refuse to say the word just like whites then we can all stop saying it and point the finger at Bill Maher. Otherwise, it was just a shitty joke gone wrong in this specific case anyway.
Click to expand...

I'll bring this very thought out, original & poignant concept up at the next black people collective meeting.


Because my grandma calling me nigga is the same as a white person using it!
 
T

thesoapster

Member
-Pyromaniac- said:
Can white people say nigga? Not really. Dr. Dre rules only, when singing along to rap songs.

Guys I learned this from chris rock.
Click to expand...

Yeah...I never use the word in my own speech, but I've used it if I'm quoting someone who said it. I don't think censoring the word in that context is sparing anyone from thinking about it...
 
C

Caddywompus

Member
Badabing said:
Maybe the word comes more naturally because Americans hear it all the time in pop culture. It amazes me how artists casually throw it into their song or joke, and expect no other person of color to hear that song or joke or even repeat it. This word gets way too much exposure.

Fact is, if you want this word to fade out of our lexicon you should probably stop using it yourself. If black people collectively refuse to say the word just like whites then we can all stop saying it and point the finger at Bill Maher. Otherwise, it was just a shitty joke gone wrong in this specific case anyway.
Click to expand...

Do you really think the word would disappear and become some unpopular slang no one uses anymore like Phat, or Homie, or No Diggity?
 
B

BrutishMrFish

Member
Badabing said:
Well it's clearly taboo for Bill Maher to say it, so I think white people collectively recognize it's not to be used.

Now I'm suggesting that it should be taboo for Ice Cube to say it. Then it will finally go away.
Click to expand...

Other racial slurs that weren't reclaimed are still being used by white people.
 
L

Lightning_Roller

Banned
Measley said:
Christ, it's simple people; If you aren't black don't use the N word. You have ZERO reason to ever say that word unless you want to be racist or "edgy". You could get socked in the face for either reason.

I don't get why this is so hard for people to understand.
Click to expand...

Oh no, they understand. They just don't want to listen. And they don't care how many times they are told, those same mooks will bend over backwards to make a argument about being able to say the n word. Or make an even more stupid argument about why black people shouldn't say it.
 
C

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Korey said:
Here, I made a flowchart:

x9J2mAP.gif
Click to expand...
Saving this for future use because goddamn...

EuropeOG said:
Did you? A slip up from Maher felt like a stab in the back to Ice Cube, apparently.
Click to expand...
Because of the context. We will never forget the history behind the word, but we sure as hell took away the power for it to be acceptable to say by white people.
 
E

Elegant Weapon

Member
Mammoth Jones said:
This. The shit is ours. Our word. Got the whole world but constantly lose their shit they can't say one word? Give me a break.
Click to expand...

Basically, they want all the privileges. You don't tell white people what they can do, they tell everyone else to pull up your pants, don't do drugs because you'll deserve jail while white people deserve understanding and rehab, don't curse, don't jaywalk or you'll deserve to get shot by cops while pretending they want less government, don't make a big deal out of white people oversaturated in every medium of mass media because, etc


They want to say nigga in the cool and familiar way the entertaining black people do too

while still blaming any racism on black people.
 
H

hey_monkey

Banned
cloudburst said:
I don't think people should be using that word period (especially people who aren't black).

That's my opinion regardless of what's said in this thread or any thread.
Click to expand...
Man, I am late to this and it's not even really a response to this poster but a general ????--

If your mind is totally closed on any issue, why come to a discussion forum? Why discuss? Why anything?
 
Ascenion

Ascenion

Member
I could say as a black man, I don't think the word should be used at all. I could say as a black man I'm okay with "cool" white people using it. I could say these things. If I did say here things I'd be disrespecting my own imo. I won't do that. A non black person has no reason to ever utter that word. None at all. Out of respect for us as a culture and out of respect for our history, no white person or non black person should say that word. Period. What makes it worse is that they already know this and still consciously choose to say it anyway which makes it all the more disrespectful. You can't grow up in the US and not know you shouldn't say that unless you are black.
 
S

Slayven

Member
Elegant Weapon said:
Basically, they want all the privileges. You don't tell white people what they can do, they tell everyone else to pull up your pants, don't do drugs because you'll deserve jail while white people deserve understanding and rehab, don't curse, don't jaywalk or you'll deserve to get shot by cops while pretending they want less government, don't make a big deal out of white people oversaturated in every medium of mass media because, etc


They want to say nigga in the cool and familiar way the entertaining black people do too

while still blaming any racism on black people.
Click to expand...
All the privilege and none of the history
 
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