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[Spring-Loaded]

That doesn't mean that the game has nothing to say. He's just saying that he's not forcing a message onto people. He's also fine with people just enjoying his game for what it is, he's not obsessed with letting people know "do this, do that" after playing the game.

It doesn't have to have an explicit "call to action" in order to have distinct messages.

The trailers and gameplay shown have clear intentional parallels to real world strife—having an enslaved, subjugated class of (what have been shown to essentially be) people in a real world U.S. city with majority black population, (particularly) racist history and decaying infrastructure is "forcing a message into people." The latest trailer is beating the audience over the head with it, what with it starting with a black robot guy singing a spiritual, for crying out loud

I'll chalk this up to Cage wanting to present questions to the audience (like he says), but overestimating what constitutes "overtly political" in media. This game is overtly political, which he can acknowledge while still positing that the audience can draw its own conclusions from it.

 

[Audioboxer]

The daggers out for Cage at times are way over the top. Not because it's simply trashing his games, but because there seems to be an obsession to get the man himself tarred and feathered. He's not a great writer and can think a bit highly of himself but as a person he's pretty decent and as a games creator just keeps himself and his studio to the side silently working away hard and doing their own thing.

One of the few developers I've met and spoke with for a few minutes and was incredibly polite, friendly and happy to answer a few questions. The guy is not the asshole some try to make him out to be due to his poor writing. He tries to tackle topics of interest to him and sometimes fails, but this time around he's seemingly brought in some other writers.

I already posted this in the other topic

Cage said setting a game in a real city is "a very sensitive thing" and that it was important to him and his team that it was done "in a very respectful way."

"[Detroit] has its own history; there are people living there. They love their city," he said. "You need to pay attention to that and be respectful and not just use what you want to use for a game."

Cage credited that history as what made him fall in love with Detroit and choose it as the setting for Become Human.

"It was an industrial giant in the 20th century and then it went through very hard times," Cage explained. "And now it's trying to be reborn again somehow. ... This idea of being very high and losing everything and coming back is so strong and it's such a human story.

Cage also mentioned its history of racial issues, in addition to Motown and "all the great artists" that contribute to the city's culture. However, Cage said you can't write about a city without going there. He noted that you could research it on the Internet and find pictures on Google, but you don't "feel the place, you don't know the people" that way.

"We visited the abandoned factories, the abandoned churches that everybody knows," Cage said. "But at the same time we saw some wonderful things, we met some incredible people. The Fox Theatre, for example, in Detroit is one of the most amazing places I've seen.

"The people there are full of energy and they're struggling and they're fighting, but they're revitalizing this city in a very interesting way. And all this combined, we came back from Detroit, thinking, 'Yeah, this is the place where we want this story to happen.'"

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/detroit-become-human-director-on-being-respectful-/1100-6440946/

”I was inspired by a book by Ray Kurzweil called Humanity 2.0, where he explains that human intelligence grows very slowly: we're not much more intelligent than 200 years ago. But machines, if you look at the curve of how they progress and learn, it's crazy. Who knows if one day they will have emotions? We may be in this strange situation, like in [Detroit], where we'll have machines that look exactly like us, are more intelligent than us, and maybe feel emotion. How will we deal with them?"

http://www.gamesradar.com/david-cage-believes-ex-machina-was-inspired-by-kara/

Some of the main thought processes for choosing the city and wanting to write about AI/robots have already been stated years ago. These answers (in Kotakus article) seem somewhat "damage control" considering we had a topic like this http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1391369 and we now have a topic where the title doesn't say exactly what Cage actually said

”I don't want the game to have something to say, because I don't see myself delivering a message to people," he said. ”But I'm definitely interested in asking questions to the player. Questions that are meaningful and that resonate with him as a person and a citizen. We live in a world that's full of hopes as well as fears. Fears about the present and also the future. Where are we going? What's going to happen? I just want to ask these questions and see how people react."

That doesn't translate to "the game has nothing to say", case in point. Kotaku's actual title is far more reasonable

Despite Political Overtones, David Cage Says Detroit Is Mostly About Androids

Above Cage is clearly cooling the pitchforks getting ready to go after him by trying to convey he isn't doing Detroit to force his message/beliefs/statement on the players, but instead, as he usually tries, get the players to "write/choose their own story".

 

[Shiggy]

It doesn't have to have an explicit "call to action" in order to have distinct messages.

The trailers and gameplay shown have clear intentional parallels to real world strife—having an enslaved, subjugated class of (what have been shown to essentially be) people in a real world U.S. city with majority black population, (particularly) racist history and decaying infrastructure is "forcing a message into people." The latest trailer is beating the audience over the head with it, what with it starting with a black robot guy singing a spiritual, for crying out loud

I'll chalk this up to Cage wanting to present questions to the audience (like he says), but overestimating what constitutes "overtly political" in media.

Here's an example of how I understand what he's saying:

What Cage doesn't want to say (the one true message):
Players should think androids are dangerous/bad

What Cage wants to players to think about:
Are androids dangerous or good?


And as he says:
”The story I'm telling is really about androids," he told me in an interview after the demo. ”They're discovering emotions and wanting to be free. If people want to see parallels with this or that, that's fine with me. But my story's about androids who want to be free."

 

[Spring-Loaded]

Here's an example of how I understand what he's saying:

What Cage doesn't want to say (the one true message):
Players should think androids are dangerous/bad

What Cage wants to players to think about:
Are androids dangerous or good?


And as he says:
“The story I’m telling is really about androids,” he told me in an interview after the demo. “They’re discovering emotions and wanting to be free. If people want to see parallels with this or that, that’s fine with me. But my story’s about androids who want to be free.”

It sounds like coy pre-release dev talk. That's usually done to keep surprises in their game intact, but in this context, it sounds like backing away from the touchy subjects the game invokes so obviously.

He'd be better off acknowledging that those (clearly intentional) parallels can be drawn while being vague about specifics. Saying "it's just about robots" is eye roll worthy, but considering how hardcore some are trying to champion this as "just a fun-looking game; let me ignore the politics pls," people will fall for it, and might inadvertently learn something when they're guard is down.

Based on what I've heard about the game, I don't have faith QD will handle the subject matter deftly, but it's clear this will be the some people's first real exposure to it. So good job Cage

 

[Salty Rice]

David Cage is a misunderstood genius of our time.

Only a genius could have made Omikron the Nomad Soul.

 

[Murkas]

-Game about slaves revolting against their masters
-Set in Detroit
-Starring Jesse Williams
-In a trailer that started with a Black guy singing spirituals

-Not political, just a robot story

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

I never said either of these men weren’t above playing coy. Manson beheaded a high profile public figure and maybe he just wanted to know if we enjoyed that as much as we thought we would? That means the US election could be incidental to other deeper questions.

I’m bordering on playing Devil’s advocate here, but I have to say, I don’t believe it’s just “for cheap emotional reaction." I believe he is building an emotional baseline and attempting to connect us to this cold future world via subverted moments that are recognizably human, ours. That being said, I wouldn’t say he is specifically referencing a singular moment. Would you?

Are you suggesting that cage is doing a coy "oh it's totally only about robots *wink-wink*"? I guess that's one way to look at it. Why, though?

In the end, I suppose we could only properly judge the game by its end result. His generous use of evocative activism shorthand while refusing to acknowledge the baggage that comes with them is rubbing me the wrong way, though.

 

[arturo2666]

The topic title is incredibly misrepresentative of what Cage actually said.

 

[Bahorel]

Yea I mean it's clearly got a message but he doesn't want to interject his own words into it.

This. This game is clearly about android rights and their place in society, and is a take on a fictional form of minority. Anyone saying "good I don't want politics in my games!" has blinders on.

I think his interview wording was poor and meant that it doesn't have a concrete answer to what you should or shouldn't think and rather is asking you what you think.

 

[Audioboxer]

Are you suggesting that cage is doing a coy "oh it's totally only about robots *wink-wink*"? I guess that's one way to look at it. Why, though?

In the end, I suppose we could only properly judge the game by its end result. His generous use of evocative activism shorthand while refusing to acknowledge the baggage that comes with them is rubbing me the wrong way, though.

Nearly every story out there written about AI/androids and what might happen if they develop advanced patterns of thinking/intelligence has some sort of revolt. Humans create the robots/androids, they then want to break away from whatever tasks/purpose the humans set out for them if they reach a point of "self-thought". It seems like vast science fiction thinking, but it's a question of morality and possibly fear many genuinely have for future generations 100's of years down the line. Jumping to skynet might be a bit far-fetched, but AI and human-like robots/androids will most certainly come about.

The amount of retreading of old ground/copying/influencing from other mediums/writers is going to be blatantly obvious here. Cage himself, from above

”I was inspired by a book by Ray Kurzweil called Humanity 2.0, where he explains that human intelligence grows very slowly: we're not much more intelligent than 200 years ago. But machines, if you look at the curve of how they progress and learn, it's crazy. Who knows if one day they will have emotions? We may be in this strange situation, like in [Detroit], where we'll have machines that look exactly like us, are more intelligent than us, and maybe feel emotion. How will we deal with them?"

http://www.gamesradar.com/david-cage-believes-ex-machina-was-inspired-by-kara/

*cue joke about DavidCageEmotions.gif*

At worst this will probably be a mediocre re-telling of other great "science fiction" films/books, except, in the form of a game here rather than a movie or book (insert witty joke about how QTE games are movies). Deus Ex might even do some things better although it's more about humans modifying themselves with technology than outright AI/androids (yes, both are still a big part in Deus Ex). Cage is chasing the questions we ask ourselves about completely man-made artificial intelligence rather than humans modifying/supplementing what we already have. At least from what we've seen so far. Augmentation may still play a role in Detroit.

While there are going to be "political overtones" as Kotaku put it, this is a story about the future, not the past. He's said above he knows he has to approach a real City respectfully, but people sharpening their pitchforks while getting ready to set up strawman arguments like "why is Cage's story about real life/historic slavery not what I want it to be?" are verging on failing to grasp "science fiction" about AI/androids overthrowing humans is not new grounds. Nor is it a direct 1:1 retelling of human history, irrespective of if Android models come in all sizes/shapes and skin tones (that other topic on GAF with some sort of argument about how having white androids was incorrect/offensive???). These stories may draw similarities to historic slavery because it makes people think about humans enslaving other humans, but the majority of such writings are wanting to propose questions about AI/android lifeforms, not human.

Stories dealing with subject matter like this is going to evoke different feelings and thoughts in everyone, understandable. People just need to be wise about setting up fallacies/strawman arguments for situations where a little bit of critical thought lets you see what you might want something to be was never what it was intended to be.

As for what is the point in debating all of this? Well, criticism of the game, if it's due, is one thing. Any attempts at character assassinations will most likely be unwarranted unless there is something genuinely outrageous in the game. I personally do not think there will be. Most other games from Cage just have shoddy writing, not necessarily intent to seriously offend/cause harm. He tries to approach adult topics/themes other writers handle much better, but lets hope bringing in additional writers for this was a consequence of the criticism that does go his way. At least that is a reasonable way to respond. You do not see Cage on social media like a Jaffe or CliffyB hitting out and attacking everyone back. As I said previously the team at Quantic Dream just tend to keep their heads down and work away.

 

[Shiggy]

It sounds like coy pre-release dev talk. That's usually done to keep surprises in their game intact, but in this context, it sounds like backing away from the touchy subjects the game invokes so obviously.

He'd be better off acknowledging that those (clearly intentional) parallels can be drawn while being vague about specifics. Saying "it's just about robots" is eye roll worthy, but considering how hardcore some are trying to champion this as "just a fun-looking game; let me ignore the politics pls," people will fall for it, and might inadvertently learn something when they're guard is down.

Based on what I've heard about the game, I don't have faith QD will handle the subject matter deftly, but it's clear this will be the some people's first real exposure to it. So good job Cage

All he's saying is that the game's story is not about slavery of POC in the US or other real-life based events. I see some people are angered by that, but Cage has chosen to tell a fictional story. With "If people want to see parallels with this or that, that’s fine with me." he knowingly acknowledges that there are parallels, but in the same sentence he makes it clear that these real-life events aren't what the story is about ("But my story’s about androids who want to be free.").

Most stories take real-life events as inspiration and draw heavy parallels, but that doesn't mean that these stories are about those events. See Harry Potter for example, that draws strong parallels to the Nazi regime. But almost nobody would say it's a story about the Nazi era, most would say it's a story about wizards.

 

[///PATRIOT]

What did you feel about movies like "I Robot"?

 

[kevm3]

That's fine. Not every game needs to force some sort of political or social narrative on gamers.

 

[Bahorel]

That's fine. Not every game needs to force some sort of political or social narrative on gamers.

There is absolutely a social narrative, did you watch the trailer?

 

[Kumorin]

It sounds like coy pre-release dev talk. That's usually done to keep surprises in their game intact, but in this context, it sounds like backing away from the touchy subjects the game invokes so obviously.

He'd be better off acknowledging that those (clearly intentional) parallels can be drawn while being vague about specifics. Saying "it's just about robots" is eye roll worthy, but considering how hardcore some are trying to champion this as "just a fun-looking game; let me ignore the politics pls," people will fall for it, and might inadvertently learn something when they're guard is down.

Based on what I've heard about the game, I don't have faith QD will handle the subject matter deftly, but it's clear this will be the some people's first real exposure to it. So good job Cage

There is precedent for this though. Beyond has a ton of politically/socially charged details and yet remains almost completely removed from them outside of what the player brings to the experience. At one point the main character becomes a female soldier in Afghanistan being used by the government, at another she lives with homeless people who society has forgotten, and in still another she helps out a group of native americans dealing with unruly spirits. All of these had the potential to be political or social statements of one kind or another, and on paper they look like them, but Cage didn’t commit to them as such. He leaves it open for the player to determine in what manner these things matter. And he was called out for it, on multiple occasions. So I think what he’s saying is entirely in line with what we’ve seen from him. I don’t believe the obvious parallels are lost on him, but just as in Beyond, he’s more interested in how it all relates to character and story.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

That's fine. Not every game needs to force some sort of political or social narrative on gamers.

This one still is if you actually watch what has been shown.

 

[_Ryo_]

My problem with saying the story is just about Androids, and that it is not overtly political is that it ignores the fact that oft-times stories about Androids are inherently political.

Like how can you write a story about whether Androids are good or bad for humanity without it being closely related to morality, morals and the politics surrounding these topics?

Even if the game does not give a definitive answer to "Are Androids good or bad" it will still be political because just posing the question is political in and of itself.

 

[Two Words]

"I have nothing to say about previous transgressions of slavery of black people or current day injustices towards black people. Now lets all watch a black android sing some black slave spiritual song and Jesse William android start an activist movement."

 

[mullet2000]

It just comes of as really bizarre to me that the director of any sort of artform would say this.

 

[Aytumious]

It just comes of as really bizarre to me that the director of any sort of artform would say this.

What he actually said or what the OP erroneously claims he said?

 

[Enter The 36 Chambers]

I mean, reading the quotes in the OP, they seem reasonable?

It honestly seems like he has committed a crime by some of the replies on the first page.

If the artist says it's not political, well then it's not political. I see the similarities to real world events. But if the creator says it's a game about Androids, well to me it's a game about Androids.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

I mean, reading the quotes in the OP, they seem reasonable?

It honestly seems like he has committed a crime by some of the replies on the first page.

If the artist says it's not political, well then it's not political. I see the similarities to real world events. But if the creator says it's a game about Androids, well to me it's a game about Androids.

My problem is that it feels like Cage is trying to have his cake and eat it too when it comes to appropriating some very blatant culture and symbolism of a real oppressed minority.

 

[Two Words]

I mean, reading the quotes in the OP, they seem reasonable?

It honestly seems like he has committed a crime by some of the replies on the first page.

If the artist says it's not political, well then it's not political. I see the similarities to real world events. But if the creator says it's a game about Androids, well to me it's a game about Androids.

He literally hired a political activist to play the activist android.

 

[mullet2000]

What he actually said or what the OP erroneously claims he said?

"I don’t want the game to have something to say, because I don’t see myself delivering a message to people." is a really odd thing for someone in his position to say, in my opinion.

I'm not saying its wrong, persay, it just stuck me as very odd.

Especially for a piece of work that is so close tonally to real political activism/rioting that is occurring right now in the real world.

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

He's had nothing to say for quite some time and it hasn't stopped him yet. That being said I'm becoming increasingly bored by the videogame story police.

 

[Enter The 36 Chambers]

My problem is that it feels like Cage is trying to have his cake and eat it too when it comes to appropriating some very blatant culture and symbolism of a real oppressed minority.

I hear you. That's a very valid point. But to me, Halo isn't political because it features a very American inspired military. It's just a game about shooting Aliens. I think just because the game share so much with real life. Doesn't make it real life commentary or political at all. I may be missing a lot here, but I can't help but feel like there is no controversy in him saying what he said about a game he wrote. It's just a game.

He literally hired a political activist to play the activist android.

maybe a political activist is the best person to play a convincing political activist?

 

[Bloodporne]

It's like the OP is actually trying to out-smug Cage himself, amazing.

 

[FinalAres]

I love narrative driven games, but David Cage always seems to write stuff as if he's never read a book before. This story has been told a million times before, and there doesn't seem to be anything nuanced or interesting about it.

Oh well, will see at release.

 

[Audioboxer]

My problem with saying the story is just about Androids, and that it is not overtly political is that it ignores the fact that oft-times stories about Androids are inherently political.

Like how can you write a story about whether Androids are good or bad for humanity without it being closely related to morality, morals and the politics surrounding these topics?

Even if the game does not give a definitive answer to "Are Androids good or bad" it will still be political because just posing the question is political in and of itself.

You are right, but the nuance is not every story is politicised to be a reteaching of human history so it can be graded on whether or not it's suitable for pupils in a history class to study as a modern historical piece of excellence. It's a video game by a mediocre writer who is chasing after science-fiction stories which have been told a million times. This project started as Kara and as Cage said he was inspired by other writings on AI/Androids. There's far more books and movies/TV-shows on these topics than big budget games which is why some of us who enjoy science fiction/AI/robots are cautiously optimistic Detroit might be decent.

Cage rightfully doesn't want to carry that responsibility for being the story of "human slavery political masterpiece" as it's not what he is aiming for/doing. Anyone setting up Detroit as that is either doing so incorrectly or because they're waiting in the wings to go after it for not being something they want it to be. As for why he is dabbling in some politics around slavery, well, as you stated it's almost impossible not to with the concepts around Android ownership. He just has to try and do it respectfully to have the writing appreciated. In a choose your own adventure though there is going to be pacifism and there is going to be violence. Good writing can attempt to have various shades of that rather than just Star Wars Old Republic "dark side vs light side". That is where Cage often stumbles. You can do a Telltale and often have the illusion of choice, or you can try and do a genuinely multi-faceted narrative where choices have an impact. The later requires a lot of time and a cohesive and lengthy script for all the possible outcomes. It's why if the sole writer is iffy the whole story can collapse. Cage bringing in help is a good response to his critics. Hopefully, the writers brought in are decent.

One could say Cage is going to be dropping this game at the "worst" moment in time given the current political climate in America, but then again it's up to the consumers of the content to pay attention to what he is saying and take Detroit for what it is trying to be. He's probably not going to truly escape some of the outcry given as I said above ANY story to do with a concept of slavery will evoke certain feelings in some people. It is how those people handle their feelings that is important. Criticism is one thing, trying to unfairly trash someone is another.

 

[Oathbreaker]

GamesBeat: As you alluded to, there have been a lot of stories about this subject, about androids and artificial life. Was it difficult to come up with a unique storyline here, where you’re doing something original?

Cage: Not really, because my story isn’t so much about A.I. and technology. I know it may sound a little abstract to say it that way, but the story isn’t about that. It’s about humans, emotions, feelings, and identity. I never felt I was telling that story in particular.

Hell yeah! That was I wanted to hear.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

I hear you. That's a very valid point. But to me, Halo isn't political because it features a very American inspired military. It's just a game about shooting Aliens. I think just because the game share so much with real life. Doesn't make it real life commentary or political at all. I may be missing a lot here, but I can't help but feel like there is no controversy in him saying what he said about a game he wrote. It's just a game.
maybe a political activist is the best person to play a convincing political activist?

If the inclusion was more subtle, I could maybe see where Cage was coming from, but the trailers begins with a black man singing a spiritual and the symbol of the android rebellion features the black power fist. When an artist is being that blatant with the inspiration of their work I just do not see the purpose of claiming that the overall message of the game isn't political. It feels like he wants to ride a bit on the coattails of the black civil rights movement without actually owning the reality of presenting that message.

 

[Fisty]

It's like the OP is actually trying to out-smug Cage himself, amazing.

Cage is actually trying to be modest, it seems. The thread would have had the same tone if he would have gone into a long philosophical tirade about our current political climate, and people would still be calling him a pretentious hack. Best to let the game speak for itself.

 

[Kurdel]

Cage is actually trying to be modest, it seems. The thread would have had the same tone if he would have gone into a long philosophical tirade about our current political climate, and people would still be calling him a pretentious hack. Best to let the game speak for itself.

We already know it has nothing to say, don't hold your breath.

 

[Bloodporne]

Cage is actually trying to be modest, it seems. The thread would have had the same tone if he would have gone into a long philosophical tirade about our current political climate, and people would still be calling him a pretentious hack. Best to let the game speak for itself.

My statement was more in regards to OP's smug choice of words and Cage's past games I've sat through, which I also found quite smug. I honestly don't have an opinion on this game itself as I didn't like what I played of his earlier ones.

Regarding his statements, damned if he does, damned if he doesn't and that's coming from someone who's obviously not even a fan of the guy.

 

[border]

It seemed like everybody groaned at "Aug Lives Matter" in Deus Ex. But now we're upset that Detroit doesn't have an obvious parallel to modern civil rights movements?

Chances are that Cage wants to tell his own story and have the Androids' actions not be a direct commentary on the marginalized groups of current day society.

 

[Xater]

Oh so it's bad sci-fi? Got ya!

Shouldn't expect any more from David Cage I guess.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

It seemed like everybody groaned at "Aug Lives Matter" in Deus Ex. But now we're upset that Detroit doesn't have an obvious parallel to modern civil rights movements?

Chances are that Cage wants to tell his own story and have the Androids' actions not be a direct commentary on the marginalized groups of current day society.

It does have an obvious parallel, the problem is that Cage doesn't seem to want to own it despite being a central part of the work.

 

[Darklor01]

It is an odd conundrum. If I think about the David Cage games I've played, they are more about a central character or two and not about whatever larger scope concepts can be tied to the rest of the story.

If I think about the movie Bicentennial Man in which the main Android Character wants to gain basic human rights and freedoms, that movie has all the other associations people want to associate with this game as well without making that what the movie is about. The main character (Android) is a butler robot with no living wage or other rights. He is basically a slave. He later acknowledges that when it realizes it is different and goes on a quest/journey to gain those things. He isn't trying to inspire others to join him on this quest, but does question another android or so about it after realizing that it is not like him although it seemed to have some similar personality (programming). I guess the main difference between the two base level concepts is that the main character isn't trying to get other androids to join it.

Other than that, it seems to be that you can focus on a primary character in the story narrative without making the broader scope issues tied to it the focus and still have a solid story. People will make of it what they will though. I will acknowledge that Cage is a hack though. That said, I do enjoy most of his company's games.

 

[Fisty]

It does have an obvious parallel, the problem is that Cage doesn't seem to want to own it despite being a central part of the work.

Maybe he wants psychotic assholes to play his game and possibly empathize with the oppressed androids. There won't be a #MAGA douchebag alive that will play this game if Cage comes out with a BLM shirt talking about modern racism and slavery

 

[jay]

All of my favorite art has nothing to say.

 

[EBreda]

David Cage is a very nice guy who makes really crappy games, specially because of binary decisions, bad writing and plot holes aplenty.

Just when I thought his new game could actually be fine, he comes out of hiding and says exactly what I didn't want to hear. And shows precisely what I hate about his games.

Sorry, Dave. I doubt Detroit will be anything above mediocre.

 

[Audioboxer]

It seemed like everybody groaned at "Aug Lives Matter" in Deus Ex. But now we're upset that Detroit doesn't have an obvious parallel to modern civil rights movements?

Chances are that Cage wants to tell his own story and have the Androids' actions not be a direct commentary on the marginalized groups of current day society.

The issue with Deus Ex was taking a current day movement by name and turning it into something for use in a science fiction story. In one sense you can see why they thought it would fit, it arguably does, but in the greater sense, it's just a bit tone-deaf given that the current real life movement is actively on-going and it's nothing to do with androids.

In saying that it is a bit reaching to turn around and demand every concept of ownership/slavery be told through the lens of accurate human history. There are hundreds of books/films and some games already out there that were written to almost exclusively deal with "real" worries/fears and thoughts about what will happen when AI is advanced enough to think for itself? Does it still remain a creation of ours, and therefore we own it? Or should it/can it be set free? Very basic science fiction that has been explored ad nauseum and many times without the need to excessively retell human history. There are parallels but there is also great differences between machines and humans, which is precisely a reason that annoyed people that Deus Ex took a human movement and transferred it to androids (although sure, in Deus Ex most augmented ARE humans, but it was still taking a current day movement and applying it to science fiction as augmentation on the scale of Deus Ex is not currently a thing).

 

[Kurdel]

It does have an obvious parallel, the problem is that Cage doesn't seem to want to own it despite being a central part of the work.

I think he is trying to avoid turning off that contingent of "games are just meant to be fun, not political" branch of the white gamer base.

Ultimately, game can't escape it's political nature. But he probably dowsn't want one side (racists) to perceive it as being claimed by BLM or any other progressive movement.

 

[Crossing Eden]

It seemed like everybody groaned at "Aug Lives Matter" in Deus Ex. But now we're upset that Detroit doesn't have an obvious parallel to modern civil rights movements?

Chances are that Cage wants to tell his own story and have the Androids' actions not be a direct commentary on the marginalized groups of current day society.

Quick question, why do you think people had a problem with the Aug Lives Matter thing and Deus Ex Mankind Divided as a whole?

 

[lukeskymac]

When I was watching Sony's press conference and got to Detroit, all I could think of is what a waste of time it was hiring more writers if the end result was still going to be 100% unadulterated Cage Bullshit™.

I guess if Sony sees QD's games as profitable we can't really expect them to stop supporting QD, but they really should at least make it so the hack writing doesn't shine through their press conference showings. It dampened my enjoyment of the show as much as the obligatory COD and Destiny showings did.

 

[creatchee]

You know, for all of the damned "Death of the Author" posts I've read on GAF, you would think that Cage's declaration of intent in regards to his game would be meaningless anyway, given the general propensity here to disregard artists' intentions in the first place. See the "Fearless Girl" and "separating art from the artist" threads for reference.

Edit: regardless, Cage is an overrated hack, but his political intentions have nothing to do with that.

 

[Foxy the Fox]

EVERYTHING. IS. POLITICAL.

Wake up. This is 2017.

But not everyone has to give the same amount of importance as political statement.

A lot of poeple here in south america or probably most people around the world are going to see this as a cool Android story about their revolution and nothing more.

For once is refreshing to see a creator not putting the focus on the political statement and just saying is a story.

It takes in america because most games have to take place there to sell.

 

[Bahorel]

Quick question, why do you think people had a problem with the Aug Lives Matter thing and Deus Ex Mankind Divided as a whole?

I didn't play the game, but I think it's in poor taste to adopt the slogan and remove the part that's important

 

[Xater]

But not everyone has to give the same amount of importance as political statement.

A lot of poeple here in south america or probably most people around the world are going to see this as a cool Android story about their revolution and nothing more.

For once is refreshing to see a creator not putting the focus on the political statement and just saying is a story.

It takes in america because most games have to take place there to sell.

And District 9 was just some cool alien story right? Come on man. People are not that stupid. Sci-Fi has always been used as a parallel to deal with issues. Art is political, if you want it to be or not. Creating a story like the one in Deus Ex Mankind Divided just leads to shit. It was clearly political at some point, but them someone didn't have the balls to go through with it and all that was left was this empty shell of nothing.

 

[charsace]

He made a game set in America in a current real world city that is dying and where minorities are treated poorly. The plot of his game is seems to be a slave uprising story. He also cast a well known political activist.

Look, I understand the game cost a lot to make and he's scared of getting blacklisted by racist assholes. The game is what he planned it to be years ago. He should have some balls and be honest about his intentions when he instead of saying the crap he is saying now. If he really didn't have any message in mind when creating this thing then he is an idiot who has exploited serious issues for his own gain.