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[Skilletor]

But not everyone has to give the same amount of importance as political statement.

A lot of poeple here in south america or probably most people around the world are going to see this as a cool Android story about their revolution and nothing more.

For once is refreshing to see a creator not putting the focus on the political statement and just saying is a story.

It takes in america because most games have to take place there to sell.

You don't get to use African American imagery, use it in your game, and try to strip it if its meaning by saying you're not saying anything.

The focus on the political statement is right there the very moment the black character opens his mouth to sing in the trailer.

It doesn't have to take place in America, in Detroit. Androids like this do not exist. He could make up some fake ass city.

 

[DC1]

We give him shit because his games are shit.

Well. Thank you for telling us who you really are.

 

[DC1]

You don't get to use African American imagery, use it in your game, and try to strip it if its meaning by saying you're not saying anything.

The focus on the political statement is right there the very moment the black character opens his mouth to sing in the trailer.

It doesn't have to take place in America, in Detroit. Androids like this do not exist. He could make up some fake ass city.

You are imputing much here.

If a game developer is not chasing impact, then that game developer is chasing mild acid reflux into mouth.

Black/Afican American digitally represented charters shouldn't be anymore type casted than our fleah and blood counterparts.

Further, most political messages are better absorbed willingly than bluntly.

Let my man Dave Cage have his space to breathe this through.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

David Cage: "I don't want the game to have something to say."
People in this thread: "OP distorting his words!"

... Really.

 

[Brainfreeze]

This was probably discussed in the thread earlier (I haven't had the chance to read most of it), but isn't it possible he's just putting this message out to avoid abuse from gamergate and kotakuinaction? Saying that you're trying to make your game political, especially about a topic such as this, is exactly what draws harassment from them.

He can have confidence in his story for people who buy it with the intention of engaging with it, but not want to engage in the unwinnable debate with people who have no desire for these politics to exist in the gaming space at all.

I also think there's something to be said for the fact that it's choose-your-own-adventure. I think, by nature, that sort of has to take a bit of a fence-sitting position so that every choice feels valid and interesting, rather than having his preferred politics outline the best path.

I've never played a David Cage game, so I can't speak to his writing quality, but I don't envy his position either. This isn't an easy project to write for. I would be terrified putting this game out knowing how hot the topic is and what type of responses you would get from both sides. Maybe he's deflecting the political angle for his own sanity.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

The answer is of course because Cage doesn't want to lose sales from the Alt-Right.

 

[Audioboxer]

He made a game set in America in a current real world city that is dying and where minorities are treated poorly. The plot of his game is seems to be a slave uprising story. He also cast a well known political activist.

Look, I understand the game cost a lot to make and he's scared of getting blacklisted by racist assholes. The game is what he planned it to be years ago. He should have some balls and be honest about his intentions when he instead of saying the crap he is saying now. If he really didn't have any message in mind when creating this thing then he is an idiot who has exploited serious issues for his own gain.

What? QD games sell a couple of million if lucky. I don't think Beyond even broke 2m. What on earth do their studio have to care about Twitter trolls for? Is this the kind of strawman people latch onto that has them leap from a game with ties to a form of slavery, therefore, the author must be pandering to the alt-right? The other topic did seem like it was setting itself up to try and overtly say Cage is being racist. It backfired when posters pointed out the ethnicity of one of the playable characters (not to mention the store crashed into having a multitude of Android ethnicities) which in this topic now has some people say "this actor was only chosen because he is a POC". Basically, some sort of negative light? How is it negative? Diversity in games is usually something everyone is asking for more of? To further on from that the actor seems to be decently well liked, so, do you not think they have a good judgement of Cage's intentions and ideas to sign off on being a part of this project?

edit: ^ Okay, as above it seems like some are really going to go down the "Cage is acknowledging and pandering to the alt-right" slope...

Anyway, about Detroit, I posted it on the previous page but here is the reasoning from Cage again

Cage said setting a game in a real city is "a very sensitive thing" and that it was important to him and his team that it was done "in a very respectful way."

"[Detroit] has its own history; there are people living there. They love their city," he said. "You need to pay attention to that and be respectful and not just use what you want to use for a game."

Cage credited that history as what made him fall in love with Detroit and choose it as the setting for Become Human.

"It was an industrial giant in the 20th century and then it went through very hard times," Cage explained. "And now it's trying to be reborn again somehow. ... This idea of being very high and losing everything and coming back is so strong and it's such a human story.

Cage also mentioned its history of racial issues, in addition to Motown and "all the great artists" that contribute to the city's culture. However, Cage said you can't write about a city without going there. He noted that you could research it on the Internet and find pictures on Google, but you don't "feel the place, you don't know the people" that way.

"We visited the abandoned factories, the abandoned churches that everybody knows," Cage said. "But at the same time we saw some wonderful things, we met some incredible people. The Fox Theatre, for example, in Detroit is one of the most amazing places I've seen.

"The people there are full of energy and they're struggling and they're fighting, but they're revitalizing this city in a very interesting way. And all this combined, we came back from Detroit, thinking, 'Yeah, this is the place where we want this story to happen.'"

A reasonable and carefully proposed answer for choosing Detroit, which appears to have team input (not just Cage). Now, if he somehow disgraces the City in the game have at him, but it'll probably largely be architectural ties and maybe some cultural. Remember it will be a story set way after anyone currently living in Detroit is long deceased.

 

[Skilletor]

You are imputing much here.

If a game developer is not chasing impact, then that game developer is chasing mild acid reflux into mouth.

Black/Afican American digitally represented charters shouldn't be anymore type casted than our fleah and blood counterparts.

Further, most political messages are better absorbed willingly than bluntly.

Let my man Dave Cage have his space to breathe this through.

I have no idea what being type cast has to do with what I said.

 

[Atraveller]

It's not the failures of Communism. It's farm animals.

Excellent.

I was dumbfounded by the lack of critical thinking and self-awareness demonstrated by some members, a cyberpunk story about robot slavery vine apolitical is an insane statement. But I guess right wingers believe what they want to believe.

 

[Brainfreeze]

The answer is of course because Cage doesn't want to lose sales from the Alt-Right.

I'm not sure if this is serious, but like I said: if this is related to the alt-right at all, it probably has far more to do with avoiding abuse than trying to profit off of them. I don't think many alt-righters would be interested in this game.

 

[Aytumious]

The answer is of course because Cage doesn't want to lose sales from the Alt-Right.

Did he have a hand in getting noted alt-right figurehead, Jessie Williams, to appear in the game?

 

[Fisty]

The answer is of course because Cage doesn't want to lose sales from the Alt-Right.

I think it might be that he doesn't want alt-right to skip his game, since they have the most to gain by playing through it and hearing it's message.

Did he have a hand in getting noted alt-right figurehead, Jessie Williams, to appear in the game?

I think you might want to check the definition of figurehead

 

[Corpekata]

I think it might be that he doesn't want alt-right to skip his game, since they have the most to gain by playing through it and hearing it's message.



I think you might want to check the definition of figurehead

He was being sarcastic. Jessie Williams is well known for being very outspoken on matters like the treatment of the black community.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

That sucks David, because that was about the only interesting aspect of your game.

 

[whalleywhat]

'Alt-right' on NeoGAF is like 'Jesus' in Sunday School: it's the answer to everything.

 

[R_thanatos]

Nah, David Cage's games all suck and this is coming from a huge adventure game fan and someone who appreciates games as narrative medium more than anything else.

is this a joke ?

"His games are shit , trust me i'm an expert" is what you're saying..
Man , the stupid hate train for david cage is really ridiculous.

 

[R_thanatos]

Man there was some pages of things to read..

As I mentioned above, North is fully in favor of the conflagration. “Violence is the only language humans understand,” she says at one point. It’s not the most subtle depiction of why people engage in property destruction. When I pointed that out, Cage said that it was just one character’s perspective. He told me the rest of the game is more complicated than that.

“It’s the point of view of one of the two characters,” he said. “What I tried to do with this game is not be binary, not be black or white, or good or evil. Sometimes doing something bad can turn into something good, or vice versa. There’s usually more than one component [to situations in the game]. There’s the androids, there’s the humans, there’s the public, there’s the media. Your own people, what will they think of what you’re doing depending on how you do it, what you say about it to them, what you say to the humans? The situation is not binary. It’s actually quite multifaceted.”

Like those moments stood out to me in the article.
First , the multiples perspectives. You have the android that seek change , an android unable to know what to do after she changed. and another that does not seek change.

So of course , multiple character perspectives.. i've seen people pointing out that there are riot and violence in the lastest trailer but are unable to see past the fact that it's :
-optionnal
-the point of the choice

Second , i don't even see where cage says that the game is not political , he just says that there isn't a simple political message. And he wants people to seek the message faced with certain situations.
i mean What's wrong with that ?
He isn't shying away from DETROIT or any message. he's just saying that the game isn't about just 1 message

Third , it's clear that his inspiration is not current events , it's just that current events have created a good catalyst for the story he wanted to tell. He even cited one of his sources as the basis of the story , yet here in this thread i'm seeing people wanting to have a SET CONCLUSION before even seeing the consequences of those choices in a game all about consequences.

That's silly... Like i don't even know why this article got so far.
he didn't even say that there aren't any political aspects, he even talk about the media and the sides in a confrontation( Sound familiar ?? ) . he just says that it's not the primary goal of the game.

 

[Kinyou]

People seem to only focus on the first bit.

“I don’t want the game to have something to say, because I don’t see myself delivering a message to people,” he said. “But I’m definitely interested in asking questions to the player. Questions that are meaningful and that resonate with him as a person and a citizen. We live in a world that’s full of hopes as well as fears. Fears about the present and also the future. Where are we going? What’s going to happen? I just want to ask these questions and see how people react.”

I believe what he means is that the game isn't meant to give you one clear message but rather wants you to ask questions which you're supposed to answer yourself

 

[Autoignition]

People seem to only focus on the first bit.

I believe what he means is that the game isn't meant to give you one clear message but rather wants you to ask questions which you're supposed to answer yourself

Uh, yeah, that's exactly the problem. That's the coward's approach to storytelling. It's the mark of a writer who's either too afraid or too uniformed to take a stance on something, so he sprays out a bunch of vague and poorly defined concepts and waits for his audience to do all of the thought work for him.

If you're opening trailers with negro spirituals and using the black power symbol and having one of your characters literally refer to himself as a "slave" and you still refuse to claim that your game has a message, it shows that you're too creatively and intellectually bankrupt to actually have anything meaningful to say and you just want to have your "fun" little rebellion storyline without any consideration or respect for the real-world people suffering under these real issues of real oppression for real, whose problems you happen to be co-opting so that you can get your instant gratification jollies off with your puny pissant little thriller.

I'm not down with that. He's all but coming out and saying, "This is going to be offensive to people due to the lack of empathy and nuance in the writing."

 

[prag16]

Uh, yeah, that's exactly the problem. That's the coward's approach to storytelling. It's the mark of a writer who's either too afraid or too uniformed to take a stance on something, so he sprays out a bunch of vague and poorly defined concepts and waits for his audience to do all of the thought work for him.

If you're opening trailers with negro spirituals and using the black power symbol and having one of your characters literally refer to himself as a "slave" and you still refuse to claim that your game has a message, it shows that you're too creatively and intellectually bankrupt to actually have anything meaningful to say and you just want to have your "fun" little rebellion storyline without any consideration or respect for the real-world people suffering under these real issues of real oppression for real, whose problems you happen to be co-opting so that you can get your instant gratification jollies off with your puny pissant little thriller.

I'm not down with that. He's all but coming out and saying, "This is going to be offensive to people due to the lack of empathy and nuance in the writing."

But this isn't 'just' a story. There are multiple protagonists with multiple perspectives, plus allegedly a massive range of outcomes within that based in player choice.

He's saying he isn't going to bludgeon us over the head with one intended 'message'. That's fine with me. And I don't see why this is controversial. Strikes me more as an avenue for people here to try to confirm their biases and just shit on Cage.

And really, if he DID say he was taking a concrete stance to forced feed the players, he would be shat on here for other reasons. And no matter what he'll be shit on for allegedly being a horrible writer who makes horrible games.

The OP and many posts in this topic are very disingenuous.

 

[Autoignition]

But this isn't 'just' a story. There are multiple protagonists with multiple perspectives, plus allegedly a massive range of outcomes within that based in player choice.

He's saying he isn't going to bludgeon us over the head with one intended 'message'. That's fine with me. And I don't see why this is controversial. Strikes me more as an avenue for people here to try to confirm their biases and just shit on Cage.

And really, if he DID say he was taking a concrete stance to forced feed the players, he would be shat on here for other reasons. And no matter what he'll be shit on for allegedly being a horrible writer who makes horrible games.

The OP and many posts in this topic are very disingenuous.

I'm not sure what your argument here is in the first point, re: multiple protagonists. Thousands and thousands of stories have been written with multiple protagonists and still manage to have sound thematic messaging. That's not an excuse.

And let's not jerk each other off here about David Cage games. David Cage is the master of the illusion of choice, but very few of the decisions you make in his games are actually meaningful. Saying that it's "all about player choice" is dishonest.

Also? I pulled out three very specific things that he co-opted from real-world struggles just in one single trailer alone. So, if he has nothing to say, then what's going on with all of that crap in the trailer?

If he's not trying to shine a light on the struggles of real-life human beings, then he needs to stay out of the affairs of real-life human beings and use different symbolism and imagery for his narrative. The suffering of real people is not something that a writer should introduce and then just back away from and say, "Make your own conclusions!" That's exploitation at its finest. It's gross. Don't do it.

If he just wanted to make a game about androids, he shouldn't have reached into the real problems of real people to use for his vapid storytelling that's devoid of a message. That's the point people are trying to make here. That's why it's controversial.

 

[IrishNinja]

I tend to enjoy cages "games" but

*makes game about slaves uprising*

"Not political tho"


lol

seriously, this

 

[Rudimental]

Uh, yeah, that's exactly the problem. That's the coward's approach to storytelling. It's the mark of a writer who's either too afraid or too uniformed to take a stance on something, so he sprays out a bunch of vague and poorly defined concepts and waits for his audience to do all of the thought work for him.

Roland Barthes just turned in his grave.

 

[autoduelist]

To me, he's pretty clearly stating he's trying to make an open ended story with multiple character perspectives and wants players to come to their own conclusions. That's a valid story telling goal and I don't understand the thread backlash. He's not saying there is no messages in there, quite the opposite... he's just saying he's not trying to be heavy handed about his approach. I don't really get the backlash and some of the motivations stated in here about his statement seem quite the stretch.

Uh, yeah, that's exactly the problem. That's the coward's approach to storytelling. It's the mark of a writer who's either too afraid or too uniformed to take a stance on something, so he sprays out a bunch of vague and poorly defined concepts and waits for his audience to do all of the thought work for him.

That's absolutely ridiculous. I don't even have words for how blasphemous this is against the pantheon of great literature throughout the ages. You do not need to hit the reader over the head with a messafe, and it's perfectly fine writing an ambiguous tale from multiple perspectives that drives a reader to think and question various issues without providing any fixed message or solution.

 

[Audioboxer]

People seem to only focus on the first bit.


I believe what he means is that the game isn't meant to give you one clear message but rather wants you to ask questions which you're supposed to answer yourself

If the OP hadn't changed the title of the Kotaku article into what they did then I don't think quite as many people would be reading the title and just coming away with "Cage said NO POLITICS whatsoever and Detroit (the game) has NO meaning". That's not quite what he said, but it doesn't really matter now as that is the way the discussion has gone. The OP above even evoking the alt-right which I personally think just takes any reasonable discussion and throws it in a dumpster fire. To even get to a point where people genuinely believe Quantic Dream is creating this whole game for the alt-right audience and/or is worried about the alt-right not buying it is a bit crazy. I can't tell if it's sarcasm to bash Cage or genuine.

I mean, hardly anyone buys David Cage/QD games anyway *ba dum tshhh*

 

[firelogic]

Man there was some pages of things to read..





Like those moments stood out to me in the article.
First , the multiples perspectives. You have the android that seek change , an android unable to know what to do after she changed. and another that does not seek change.

So of course , multiple character perspectives.. i've seen people pointing out that there are riot and violence in the lastest trailer but are unable to see past the fact that it's :
-optionnal
-the point of the choice

Second , i don't even see where cage says that the game is not political , he just says that there isn't a simple political message. And he wants people to seek the message faced with certain situations.
i mean What's wrong with that ?
He isn't shying away from DETROIT or any message. he's just saying that the game isn't about just 1 message

Third , it's clear that his inspiration is not current events , it's just that current events have created a good catalyst for the story he wanted to tell. He even cited one of his sources as the basis of the story , yet here in this thread i'm seeing people wanting to have a SET CONCLUSION before even seeing the consequences of those choices in a game all about consequences.

That's silly... Like i don't even know why this article got so far.
he didn't even say that there aren't any political aspects, he even talk about the media and the sides in a confrontation( Sound familiar ?? ) . he just says that it's not the primary goal of the game.

Perfectly encapsulated what I wanted to say.

 

[Autoignition]

That's absolutely ridiculous. I don't even have words for how blasphemous this is against the pantheon of great literature throughout the ages. You do not need to hit the reader over the head with a messafe, and it's perfectly fine writing an ambiguous tale from multiple perspectives that drives a reader to think and question various issues without providing any fixed message or solution.

I don't understand where this viewpoint of a story having a sound and consistent thematic structure counts as "beating the audience over the head." Saying that a story should have a clear and consistent theme shouldn't be that explosive of a statement. Some themes are subtle and even vague, and that's fine, as long as they stay internally consistent and don't become a hodgepodge of, "it can be anything!"

And David Cage is already beating us over the head with his symbolism and imagery. Like, again, that's the issue. He is doing the thing he's saying he doesn't want to do, and then turning around and going, "but there's no agenda here." It smacks of a lack of empathy and nuance for the things he's co-opting.

 

[Coffinhal]

The topic title is incredibly misrepresentative of what Cage actually said.

People want to make him say what they'd want him to say so they can trash him. Started from the OP and it continues.

 

[Azzanadra]

So me, it just sounds like Cage is notching up the pretentiousness because he thinks having a message is too mainstream, asking questions? Now that's true art!

 

[mishakoz]

Dr. Seuss is certainly an interesting example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Seuss#Political_views
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_messages_of_Dr._Seuss

Sure, he has books are are obviously political. I just dont think Green Eggs and Ham or 1 fish, 2 fish are some of them. Sometimes fiction has a point, sometimes that point is political, sometimes it isnt.

 

[Peff]

Sure, he has books are are obviously political. I just dont think Green Eggs and Ham or 1 fish, 2 fish are some of them. Sometimes fiction has a point, sometimes that point is political, sometimes it isnt.

I mean, even if that were the case, equating a 5-year production with a double digit million budget that co-opts real life anti-oppression symbols and has an activist involved with the result of a bet to write a story with less than 50 unique words isn't the most flattering of comparisons.

 

[Kinyou]

Uh, yeah, that's exactly the problem. That's the coward's approach to storytelling. It's the mark of a writer who's either too afraid or too uniformed to take a stance on something, so he sprays out a bunch of vague and poorly defined concepts and waits for his audience to do all of the thought work for him.

If you're opening trailers with negro spirituals and using the black power symbol and having one of your characters literally refer to himself as a "slave" and you still refuse to claim that your game has a message, it shows that you're too creatively and intellectually bankrupt to actually have anything meaningful to say and you just want to have your "fun" little rebellion storyline without any consideration or respect for the real-world people suffering under these real issues of real oppression for real, whose problems you happen to be co-opting so that you can get your instant gratification jollies off with your puny pissant little thriller.

I'm not down with that. He's all but coming out and saying, "This is going to be offensive to people due to the lack of empathy and nuance in the writing."

It doesn't sound like a coward approach to me, it sounds more like he doesn't want you to tell how to feel.

Like imagine that the androids happen to kill a bunch of innocents during the chaos of their revolt. Now Cage could either just flat out say if that's still justified by the greater cause or he could let you make that judgment yourself.

At least that's how I interpreted this.

 

[hesido]

This game is about a subjugated worker/slave class fighting against their oppressors for their individual rights and freedoms.

You don't have to "force" a message. It already is the message.

Yes, and why do we need re-assurance by Cage that the game is political? Him denying it doesn't make it less political, and shouldn't effect the enjoyment / message that one gets out of the game. So to shit on him because he said the game was not political does not make sense.

 

[R_thanatos]

So me, it just sounds like Cage is notching up the pretentiousness because he thinks having a message is too mainstream, asking questions? Now that's true art!

Except that he HAS a message and a story to tell , he even give exemples.

The guy explain what the message his game tries to tell and he get accused of not wanting to tell a message.

Sigh*

 

[wartama]

How can you show interest and be the audience of a game exclusive to a system you don't own?

And please tell me, which other games, in a system you actually own this time, that utilized the same gameplay mechanics as Detroit? because as far as I know QD is pretty much the only (correct me if I'm wrong here GAF) utilizing the gameplay mechanics you can find in their games.

The "make your own choices" games I've played so far are Life is Strange and Paper Please (although the latter is not cinematic) on my Mac, and I while watching the Sony conference I wanted Detroit to be a game with an omph to its writing. I don't own a Playstation but I keep an eye on the games to see what to get in the future when I can afford one. There are only a few so far that are to my taste, and Cage's statement isn't making Detroit look hot. I'll wait and see how the game is received when it comes out.

 

[dragonbane]

The answer is of course because Cage doesn't want to lose sales from the Alt-Right.

Hahaha thanks for proving how clueless you are if this is serious

And let's not jerk each other off here about David Cage games. David Cage is the master of the illusion of choice, but very few of the decisions you make in his games are actually meaningful. Saying that it's "all about player choice" is dishonest.

Except we have already seen that there is no uprising if you decide so. The slaves can stay slaves if you want that. So whats the political message then? Would you argue Cage is saying that slavery is awesome and deserves to stay just because you got that ending which we know exists in the game? That's the whole point, there can not be one message if the outcomes are vastly different and opposite and are treated equally. Thus its up to you to decide. This type of game can not be compared 1:1 to the rules of literature

 

[Wensih]

Except we have already seen that there is no uprising if you decide so. The slaves can stay slaves if you want that. So whats the political message then? Would you argue Cage is saying that slavery is awesome and deserves to stay just because you got that ending which we know exists in the game? That's the whole point, there can not be one message if the outcomes are vastly different and opposite and are treated equally. Thus its up to you to decide. This type of game can not be compared 1:1 to the rules of literature

Sure it can. Multiple and even narratively disparate endings can carry the same theme. If you prevent and uprising and keep androids enslaved, the ending can convey that android enslavement is wrong, despite player choice, and that a rebellion is imminent in the future.

The fact that he doesn't want his game to say anything makes me question why I should bother listening?

 

[dragonbane]

Sure it can. Multiple and even narratively disparate endings can carry the same theme. If you prevent and uprising and keep androids enslaved, the ending can convey that android enslavement is wrong, despite player choice, and that a rebellion is imminent in the future.

The fact that he doesn't want his game to say anything makes me question why I should bother listening?

And let's say there is a genuinely evil option aka Renegade in most games like playing Connor in a way that ensures permanent slavery of all other robots and there is no hope for them? Would you then say they are racists for including that option despite there being good endings with a very positive message? Depending on the variety of endings that might not carry the same theme at all I think leaving it to the player but guiding him with questions isnt necessarily a bad approach for this type of interactive medium that shouldnt just tell. I can see it being very effective in actually making you think on your own which usually works better than being pushed to think.

Beyond that, even if the game does say nothing, it could still be an emotional and entertaining game to play just from moment to moment. Which also has its merits as long as its not offensive. But since Cage included that he will ask questions to the player instead, it seems very obvious to me that he just won't beat you over the head with all the possible themes. If he truly aimed to offer nothing, he wouldn't have said that. But he did

 

[NinjamicWZ]

You don't get to use African American imagery, use it in your game, and try to strip it if its meaning by saying you're not saying anything.

Sure you do. Human beings are at the top of the food chain because they observe and reproduce the actions, ideas and utilities of others. You can use whatever you want, however you want, and mean whatever you want, or mean nothing at all. Nobody can stop you from doing anything other than by force, intimidation or coercion. The only thing that truly rules man is nature and even that can be resisted by free will in the form of suicide.

Black people in America aren't the prophet Mohammed and the rest of the world aren't infidels blaspheming against the divine will of Allah by depicting them or anything they do, have done, or ever will do, in any way at all, or without sufficient prostration before the faithful to solicit their judicious approval. Not even Charlie Hebdo massacres have forced the whole of humanity to silence their minds and squelch their voices, so the idea of raising the social cost is just a vanity project full of temper tantrums and control issues.

In fact, I think I'm gonna start saying that it's absolutely profound how androids in a 2017 video game are appropriating human symbols, gestures and actions of revolution without the requisite conditions, understanding or biological relations... while gamers say they can't do that unless certain criteria is met. A symbol will represent whatever someone does under it's guise and it's subjectively sacrosanct meaning can be altered or debased at any moment in time, throughout the ages.

David Cage is now an absolute genius who's subverting the pretension and puritanical orthodoxy of racially charged symbolism in the United States, as well as the neurotic control issues of those who wish to impose their will upon behavior, presentation, language and bodily actions. It's so resonantly meta with the themes of the game that I'm absolutely awestruck. Praise be to David Cage, the arbiter of the human condition and a voice for the souls of all mankind as they lie imprisoned within the confines of flesh.

The true genius of Maestro Cage lies in the fact that he refuses to conclusively state his intent or legitimize any one set of interpretations as canonical, so there's no way for me to be wrong, and the open interpretation of "Detroit: Become Human" can ultimately service anyone's ends, to flatter, alienate or lecture anyone's world views. Even the most reprehensible of all. Who knows? Some backwoods toothless hillbilly might even identify with the struggle of the black android, parallel it to what the banks and the long arm of the law have done to generations of his kinfolk, and take unto himself these symbols of revolution, along with these feelings of injustice and oppression. Then, instead of viewing himself as the undisputed super villain of Earth, part of the million man albino mutant Voltron... he might view himself as a victim of mortal coils, in a long line of human beings and simians that spans hundreds of thousands of years, deserving of the universal empathy that all should give and receive.

That's gotta suck, huh? That a potential main street avenue for delivering your identity-defining, life-consuming world views would instead be a two way street or a four way intersection? That artists with a platform aren't running on your platform? No wonder the OP feels robbed and is so angry at the man, to the point of disparaging him as a coward, while others set up the Rube Goldberg machine of cultural appropriation and conveying the religious offense of racial insensitivity... even if it requires reaching so hard you have to argue it's ramifications on a granular, nebulous level so that the cause and effect nature of simply being noticed while existing is inherently culpable for anything that's ever happened, or ever will.

I swear, these god damn androids better not start listening to black music and coming out with their own version of it. Either way, if your creative output isn't helping someone get elected every four years, you're wasting precious air time and distracting people from the issues, so you just need to move out of the way, and probably also sit down and listen. Right?

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

I like how you wrote 7 paragraphs defending Cage's 2017 comments when Cage's 2016 and 2013 comments are completely different and he's just saying stuff this year because he doesn't want to offend anyone.

 

[semiconscious]

David Cage is a misunderstood genius of our time...

this! name another developer who'd take the time to personally show you how to walk & open doors!:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNwceiRODRY

 

[Autoignition]

snip

I legitimately can't tell if my /s meter is broken or if you just wrote out a ridiculous mini essay about how anyone who tries to claim that words have definitions is a fascist.

Either way, stop the train, I want to get off.

 

[mishakoz]

I mean, even if that were the case, equating a 5-year production with a double digit million budget that co-opts real life anti-oppression symbols and has an activist involved with the result of a bet to write a story with less than 50 unique words isn't the most flattering of comparisons.

You'd have to look at the string of quotes I was responding to. Someone stated all fiction is political, I refuted.

 

[Skilletor]

weird ass rant

Saw your posts in the other thread. Glad you're banned.

 

[Joeku]

So here's another interview Cage just did with Waypoint: https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/art...to-know-what-youd-do-to-fight-for-your-rights

It's brief so I'd suggest you read it, but here's the opening question:

Waypoint: The most striking thing about today's Detroit: Become Human demo is in one of the ways it differed from last year's. The E3 2016 demo showed us something we'd seen before in some senses from Quantic Dream, which was a sort of detective story, a mystery. It was mostly about how you solve a problem through the collection of clues, with a little action at the end of it.

But here we have something that is on its face deeply political. Not even subtextual, it's right there: Hey, these androids are an oppressed people who are trying to free themselves. What was the inspiration to move into that space instead of just doing another murder mystery or something purely supernatural or something like that.

David Cage: [Laughing] Okay! Ah, you know, you never start a project thinking "I want to do this, or I want to do that." It's really the story you want to tell that takes you somewhere, and sometimes you realize where it took you and you go 'Oh wow! Wait a second…' This is a little bit of what happened with Detroit, I think.

Now, I feel that with Indigo Prophecy and even more with Heavy Rain we wanted to see how we could deal with emotions in an interactive experience. And Heavy Rain did it correctly to a certain extent, I think. With Detroit we realized that we wanted to create an experience that could be meaningful.

We still want the emotion, we still want people to feel fully emotionally immersed in the world, but at the same time we believe we have a story that could resonate with people at a different level. And maybe talk about some things about our society and the world we live in. The fears, the hopes we all have—but at a different level.

For me, the question is: Can we, with Detroit, create an experience that would be meaningful.

From his final answer:

This is not just a fantasy. The work we're trying to do is to imagine, for real, the world 20 years from now. What will it mean to have androids who will be a journalist instead of you. Because you know what, they don't sleep, they're never sick, they don't complain, you don't need to pay them, and they never fail. They never do anything wrong.

Let's compare that to a quote of his from the original Kotaku story:

“I don’t want the game to have something to say, because I don’t see myself delivering a message to people,” he said. “But I’m definitely interested in asking questions to the player. Questions that are meaningful and that resonate with him as a person and a citizen. We live in a world that’s full of hopes as well as fears. Fears about the present and also the future. Where are we going? What’s going to happen? I just want to ask these questions and see how people react.”

Still kind of feels like the "we're just asking the questions" schtick is at odds with the "cold reality of the near future" speculative fiction worldbuilding. To set something two decades in the future and say this is reality, you have to assume that the world is going to answer questions a particular way to get there (and, y'know, the game reacts to the player's decisions and you design those outcomes).

That said, for my part, his games only seem to fall apart in the final act, and if the choices made along the way are going to produce interestingly different outcomes in the closing hours, it may at least be worth comparing notes after playing. However, if it amounts to "player was nice, androids are integrated into society" or "player was mean, city is burning wreckage" I wouldn't really be that surprised.