Support NeoGAF

[ItAintEasyBeinCheesy]

I'm in better shape than Superman. Cool.

This is secretly John Travolta's plan to be next Superman.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

Your classification is emblematic of the problem.

I feel like we're talking in circles at this point.

 

[HiiiLife]

Those damn Hollywood stars being too buff got to em

 

[GoodCoffeeJoey]

That fat Black Panther looks way more menacing than on the actual cover.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

The physical exertion required to be a superhero would make it really hard for them to be fat.

 

[HStallion]

That fat Black Panther looks way more menacing than on the actual cover.

Yeah to the fast food joints.

 

[Count Dookkake]

Yeah to the fast food joints.

I just died.

 

[Nepenthe]

I mean, if people are arguing that very fit and muscular bodies in these pages are harmful, then anything goes.

The way a lot of these bodies are drawn are indeed unrealistic either due to the amount of musculature on display (not to be confused with fitness; for god's sake, look at Liefeld's drawings) or the overall proportions being so out of whack that you'd have to kill yourself to attain them if you wanted to try to go for broke anyway, and an argument could probably be made that these kinds of hyper-idealized images aren't the best to be putting forth in our media, or at least could be balanced out by representation of other body types.

We live in a world where noting someone is morbidly obese is a worse problem than that person being morbidly obese. I know which I consider the more pressing issue.

No, we live in a world where being a shitty bully to fat people has been disingenuously normalized as being "concerned about people's health." I know if I had a choice between associating with a fat person and associating with the kind of person who shits on a fat fictional character because how dare a fat person who's been made to feel like shit have an escape every once in awhile, I'd choose the former every time.

 

[Fuchsdh]

No, we live in a world where being a shitty bully to fat people has been disingenuously normalized as being "concerned about people's health." I know if I had a choice between associating with a fat person and associating with the kind of person who shits on a fat fictional character because how dare a fat person who's been made to feel like shit have an escape every once in awhile, I'd choose the former every time.

What gets classified as "being a shitty bully" is apparently very broad, then.

 

[Nepenthe]

What gets classified as "being a shitty bully" is apparently very broad, then.

Someone literally looked at an apparently well-written comic that just so happens to star an overweight woman and said it's condoning a bad lifestyle choice, implying it might give fat people the wrong idea. GAF has said on multiple occasions that fat people should be shamed out of their lifestyles. GAF refuses to entertain any potential psychological roadblocks and pratfalls that can accompany the issue of obesity within people who aren't obese due to an overt health issue and instead tends to insist it's all about will-power and self-discipline.

This is not caring. This is not helpful. This trends towards bullying behavior. And maybe I could entertain that some part of it wasn't based in the cultural norm that says fat people are okay to mock if the behavior was consistent with similar disgust to other unhealthy behaviors in fiction, but it's not. No one acts like this with fictional characters who smoke, display poor dietary choices like ingesting tons of sugar, or who lead otherwise generally sedentary lifestyles.

 

[n0razi]

Being obese is apparently normal now

One third of the world is now obese or overweight

 

[Replicant]

In this thread:

It's becoming VERY obvious who lives in the US and who doesn't.

Are the 'average' people in the US really that big? Because if I go with Australia, the 'average' people are relatively slim. I'd say the same with Asia, especially Japan since I often go there.

EDIT: according to the article above, US, Saudi Arabia and Egypt have some of the most obese population.

 

[Emerson]

Guess what everybody, being overweight is not okay.

This isn't an indictment of your entire character if you are overweight, but it is a simple fact. Every single fat person on earth would be better off if they were not overweight.

I'm overweight. I shouldn't be. It's fucking unhealthy. I don't want fat people being bullied, but I definitely don't think the "fat acceptance" movement is going to encourage anyone to get healthy.

 

[sleepykyo]

I'll give the Superman one a pass, but why is Black Panther so fat? I thought the inherited power was relatively recent, historically his strength was from rigorous training, right?

 

[L Thammy]

Are the 'average' people in the US really that big? Because if I go with Australia, the 'average' people are relatively slim. I'd say the same with Asia, especially Japan since I often go there.

EDIT: according to the article above, US, Saudi Arabia and Egypt have some of the most obese population.

Some quick Googling tells me that the average Australian male is 189 pounds while the average American male is 195 pounds. These are really just the first numbers I saw that looked new, though.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/average-weight-american-men-15-pounds-20-years/story?id=41100782

http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/fas...age-australia-looks-like-20141028-11cyp9.html

Mexico might have obesity worse than the US? Did that change?

 

[hirokazu]

Are the 'average' people in the US really that big? Because if I go with Australia, the 'average' people are relatively slim. I'd say the same with Asia, especially Japan since I often go there.

EDIT: according to the article above, US, Saudi Arabia and Egypt have some of the most obese population.

The average Australian is definitely not thin. Maybe relatively to the US? By a little bit?

Anyway, I don’t think it’s a good idea to make superheroes have unhealthy and unfit bodies like some of those dudes. Why did they have to go to the other extreme? And superheroes are kinda supposed to be better than the average person anyway...

That said, I had to do a double take to see the differences with the Harley Quinn one.

 

[Kieli]

Their bodies aren't what makes them a hero. Lois Lane is a hero in her own right in the Superman books.

I getcha. I more meant superheros (e.g. people with superpowers).

 

[the_darkness]

Calling this "destructive" is a ridiculous and ignorant overreaction.

 

[The_Kid]

What gets classified as "being a shitty bully" is apparently very broad, then.

Whenever a fat character is portrayed as okay or in a positive light, getting comments like "oh so we're acting like this is okay" gets tiring. Being overweight isn't wrong or something to be shamed about. I see so many "unhealthy" things glamorized in comics and movies but apparently overweight people comfortable as themselves is some sort of affront.

And this isn't targeted at you, but you'd have to be blind not see that fat shaming is generally considered okay by a lot of people.

 

[caliph95]

This again, we had this a while ago and it was stupid then and stupid now.

It would be a thing if they give skinny female superheoroes more muscle or make them superheroes resemble more like what they would actual look like in real life by modeling closer to olympians or what they would look like.

This is just dumb and not even realistic for Superheros , if that is even a thing.

 

[rtcn63]

Whenever a fat character is portrayed as okay or in a positive light, getting comments like "oh so we're acting like this is okay" gets tiring. Being overweight isn't wrong or something to be shamed about. I see so many "unhealthy" things glamorized in comics and movies but apparently overweight people comfortable as themselves is some sort of affront.

And this isn't targeted at you, but you'd have to be blind not see that fat shaming is generally considered okay by a lot of people.

In this context, the argument is because it's kinda nonsensical. Active individuals, athletes. There is a reason why they look like they do. And not just biologically- carrying extraneous bodyfat can be a burden in a lot of sports, hence the need to diet down. I'm not saying that all superheroes being at 5-10% bodyfat is normal, but neither is 30%+ like these covers.

 

[Barrow Roll]

Looked it up, Black Widow is a special ops agent and worked undercover as a ballerina (that part I read in her bio). Don't think the pic on the right would fly with her work descirption.

The image on the left isn't even how Black Widow is depicted in her own book. It's a 1 in 50 variant cover by cheesecake artist J. Scott Campbell. No average comic book reader is going to actually see that cover in a store shelf, and it's really intellectually dishonest of them to use that cover as an example when Marvel's depictions of their female characters have actually been very good as of late.

How she actually looks drawn by series artist Phil Noto:

and Chris Samnee that took over afterwards:

So unrealistic.

 

[afternoon delight]

Fit, athletic people exist.

But numbers wise, they are not the average American. Before we get into arguments about BMI here are the government's numbers:

More than 2 in 3 adults are considered to be overweight or obese.
More than 1 in 3 adults are considered to be obese.
More than 1 in 20 adults are considered to have extreme obesity.
About one-third of children and adolescents ages 6 to 19 are considered to be overweight or obese.
More than 1 in 6 children and adolescents ages 6 to 19 are considered to be obese.

So their stated aim of toning superheroes to meet the average seems to be correct?

 

[Breads]

Next I'm going to be told how unrealistic my coloring and lighting is as a comic book artist.

 

[The_Kid]

In this context, the argument is because it's kinda nonsensical. Active individuals, athletes. There is a reason why they look like they do. And not just biologically- carrying extraneous bodyfat can be a burden in a lot of sports, hence the need to diet down. I'm not saying that all superheroes being at 5-10% bodyfat is normal, but neither is 30%+ like these covers.

It's literally a variant cover some artists made for body positivity. You aren't going to start seeing fat superheroes on every comic book cover. People are getting super overdefensive about this.

 

[rtcn63]

But numbers wise, they are not the average American. Before we get into arguments about BMI here are the government's numbers

But superheroes are athletic, generally. They're moving around and punching shit and stealing cakes and stuff. And no, I'm ignoring the argument that their bodies work differently, because then the "getting fat" bit wouldn't necessarily apply either. Meaning- if they're modeled after people biologically, then they would likely be closer to your MMA fighters and swimmers than your ex-football playing couch uncle who does nothing but complain about the good old days. (Roy Nelson aside)

It's literally a variant cover some artists made for body positivity. You aren't going to start seeing fat superheroes on every comic book cover. People are getting super overdefensive about this.

Defensive or realistic? Because if the covers are saying "this is what a healthy athletic adult looks like" they wouldn't necessarily be correct. Unless the superheros were always in their off-season.

 

[Zoe]

But numbers wise, they are not the average American. Before we get into arguments about BMI here are the government's numbers:



So their stated aim of toning superheroes to meet the average seems to be correct?

But why should that even be the case?

 

[afternoon delight]

But why should that even be the case?

Because some people in a room at some recovery gig thought it would be an interesting or enlightening exercise? (heh heh heh) I don't know, that's what they said in the press release anyways.

Meaning- if they're modeled after people biologically, then they would likely be closer to your MMA fighters and swimmers than your ex-football playing couch uncle who does nothing but complain about the good old days.

But if their goal is to portray the average american, the average american is not athletic, ergo, per se, they will produce overweight reflections of overweight numbers. It's representative of their stated goal, right?

 

[keuja]

That's why they're superheroes and not the average fat american.

 

[RM8]

I'm all for less "mountains of muscles / impossibly thin + massive breasts and butts" designs. But there's absolutely nothing unrealistic about fit people, lol.

 

[cpp_is_king]

If they were "realistic" then they wouldn't be superheroes would they? I'm pretty sure superheroes are, by definition, unrealistic. If you can show me a real guy flying around and lifting buildings and shit, then we can talk about making superheroes look more "realistic". What's next, aliens have to look more like people?

 

[TheRedSnifit]

But numbers wise, they are not the average American. Before we get into arguments about BMI here are the government's numbers:



So their stated aim of toning superheroes to meet the average seems to be correct?

Realistic =/= average

They chose their headline carefully. "Superheroes edited to look like the average American" and "Superheroes edited to have realistic bodies" carry very different connotations.

 

[rtcn63]

But if their goal is to portray the average american, the average american is not athletic, ergo, per se, they will produce overweight reflections of overweight numbers. It's representative of their stated goal, right?

You're not wrong, but as a meal-clapping American who's dropped close to a 100lbs over the years, this saddens me.

 

[Escape Goat]

Feels bad man

 

[afternoon delight]

Realistic =/= average

They chose their words carefully. "Superheroes edited to look like the average American" and "Superheroes edited to look realistic" carry very different connotations.

I believe the article title uses the word realistic, where they do not:

Recovery.org, an organization that offers resources for people with mental health and/or substance abuse issues, is making those ”perfect" bodies a little more realistic by ”reverse photoshopping" illustrations of some of the most iconic superheroes. According to Recovery.org, ”reverse photoshop" simply means reimagining what superheroes would look like ”if their bodies matched the body of the average viewer" in the U.S.

You're not wrong, but as a meal-clapping American

You've clearly always been cool.

 

[Zoe]

I believe the article title uses the word realistic, where they do not:

"Real"/"reality" shows up all over the original post:

While the Black Panther is often depicted as an extremely muscular, large man in his black, skin tight spandex, a real-life version would probably have a wider waistline, a fuller face, and far less muscle definition. In fact, he’d probably look more like a hibernation-ready black bear than a panther.

While often depicted with overly large breasts and a tight waistline, Scarlet Witch’s physical characterizations don’t always line up with reality. While Wanda is often drawn as a woman who might weigh slightly over 130 pounds, the average woman in the U.S. now weighs more than 166 pounds.

 

[IsntChrisL]

Nobody wants to see a bunch of fat super heroes. Probably not even fat people. That takes away the entire premise of them being "super" in the first place. And fat people tend not to be able to do most of the less ridiculous shit we see in comics and movies, average Joe or not. I also don't think it's healthy to encourage obesity, even if it's the norm. I'm not in favor of making fun of people for their weight but that doesn't mean that we need to act like it's healthy.

 

[afternoon delight]

"Real"/"reality" shows up all over the original post:

Averages are real I hear you though.

 

[Demoskinos]

This is dumb. Its just making everyone with more weight. That isn't "realistic" people come in all sizes and shapes. If you wanna talk body diversity within the realm of comics being lacking sure that's a conversation to have but I'm not sure what the point of this is.

 

[TheRedSnifit]

I believe the article title uses the word realistic, where they do not:

Lucky for us, the article helpfully includes a link to the original site:

While the Black Panther is often depicted as an extremely muscular, large man in his black, skin tight spandex, a real-life version would probably have a wider waistline, a fuller face, and far less muscle definition. In fact, he’d probably look more like a hibernation-ready black bear than a panther.

Superman, a “great American hero,” is never depicted to his audience in a way that reflects the reality of their physiques.

Scarlet Witch’s physical characterizations don’t always line up with reality. While Wanda is often drawn as a woman who might weigh slightly over 130 pounds, the average woman in the U.S. now weighs more than 166 pounds.

Like I said, they're choosing their words carefully. They throw the words "reality" and "realistic" around so much for a reason.

 

[Slayven]

Wolverine and Jean grey(kinda) finally together

 

[SOLDIER]

I wish the people who drew these alternative look at characters would just admit it was their fetish already. Stop dressing it as some political statement, because any idiot can tell you that people flock to these stories for escapism, not realism.

Nobody wants to watch a fat James Bond.

 

[lvl99 Pixel]

Nobody wants to watch a fat James Bond.

Spy was pretty funny though

 

[TheChuggernaut]

As an obese dude who is making an effort to diet and exercise because I actually want to be healthy at some point, the amount of rage GAF has at the thought of fat people is really fucking weird. It's the one part of an otherwise extremely accepting community that is really offputing. Calm down guys. No one is going to look at these and think "Gee, I guess it's okay to be fat now!"

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

If they were "realistic" then they wouldn't be superheroes would they? I'm pretty sure superheroes are, by definition, unrealistic. If you can show me a real guy flying around and lifting buildings and shit, then we can talk about making superheroes look more "realistic". What's next, aliens have to look more like people?

Superman is an alien and looks like a human.

 

[Ivan A Nguyen]

There are legitimate actors who've played these rolls. You can't get more realistic than real people. There's no need to fatten them up because you shouldn't be comparing yourself to a cartoon.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

Someone literally looked at an apparently well-written comic that just so happens to star an overweight woman and said it's condoning a bad lifestyle choice, implying it might give fat people the wrong idea. GAF has said on multiple occasions that fat people should be shamed out of their lifestyles. GAF refuses to entertain any potential psychological roadblocks and pratfalls that can accompany the issue of obesity within people who aren't obese due to an overt health issue and instead tends to insist it's all about will-power and self-discipline.

This is not caring. This is not helpful. This trends towards bullying behavior. And maybe I could entertain that some part of it wasn't based in the cultural norm that says fat people are okay to mock if the behavior was consistent with similar disgust to other unhealthy behaviors in fiction, but it's not. No one acts like this with fictional characters who smoke, display poor dietary choices like ingesting tons of sugar, or who lead otherwise generally sedentary lifestyles.

Smoking, drugs, and unhealthy diets are not typically depicted for the sake of generating positivity around them*, at least not anymore. It's widely understood that Tony Stark's alcoholism is terrible for him, for example.

Whereas there is a movement that not only seeks to normalize overweight and obesity, despite them wreaking havoc on American health, but actively TWIST public understanding of science by using bad and/or misleadingly using good studies to suggest that being fat is actually not unhealthy, but just a "different lifestyle choice". It is virtually impossible to get very far into the "body positivity" movement without encountering this sentiment, and it's an unbelievably destructive aspect of modern culture. I'd never bully a fat person - I WAS a fat kid, I got bullied, and I know it sucks - but at the same time, there has to exist a certain undercurrent of tension, a collective sense that we as a species still KNOW that it is unhealthy (and, yes, physically undesirable, because people do care about that), because if this is how fat we as a society get when there is still a stigma surrounding it, how the hell fat would we get if there were NO such stigma, as some seem to wish for?

*The exception being Goku, who can eat comically large amounts.

 

[autumnleaf]

 

[BamfMeat]

As an obese dude who is making an effort to diet and exercise because I actually want to be healthy at some point, the amount of rage GAF has at the thought of fat people is really fucking weird. It's the one part of an otherwise extremely accepting community that is really offputing. Calm down guys. No one is going to look at these and think "Gee, I guess it's okay to be fat now!"

.

God help me if GAF found out I've gained 20 pounds in the last month because my (grand, only in the biological sense)mother is dying.

Meanwhile, my aunt who smokes 4-5 packs a day and a 30 pack of beer every 2 nights, dealing with her mother dying would be OK because she's lost 10 pounds in same month.

Everyone has their vices and ways of coping with WHATEVER life throws at them. The problem with us fatties? You can see how we cope.

 

[AoM]

There are legitimate actors who've played these rolls. You can't get more realistic than real people. There's no need to fatten them up because you shouldn't be comparing yourself to a cartoon.

Heh.