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Magic: the Gathering |OT12| Hour of Devastation - Hour of Jace getting dunked on

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T

traveler

Not Wario
I'd also like to point out- since I do give them crap for flavor text a lot- that this is an example of a descriptive text that works pretty well. You don't have to be understated to do flavor text well always.
 
C

charlequin

Banned
BTW, since there's a pretty negative impression of this set forming and it's very close to being the last small set ever, I figured that (much like three-set blocks before) it might be worth scanning through the list of what there has been to figure out when this set size has ever actually worked.

Looking it over, this is what I can propose as a list of good small sets ever:

  • Alliances - this is the first expansion to a large set, and the home of a ton of major cards that went on to be significant to competitive Magic for years to come. (Major hits: Thawing Glaciers, Force of Will, Kjeldoran Outpost)
  • Visions - a lot of the best stuff from Mirage all got cut to include here, and at the time it was seen as absolutely jam-packed full of playable stuff. (Uktabi Orangutan, Nekrataal, Man-o-War)
  • Exodus - a powerful set that was home to a ton of significant cards, many of which are still huge in eternal formats (Sphere of Resistance, City of Traitors, Recurring Nightmare, Oath of Druids, Coat of Arms, Seismic Assault, Hatred, Mind Over Matter....)
  • Apocalypse - the first set to pay off a theme and for a long time basically the only source of enemy-pair cards. (enemy painlands, Fire//Ice, Lightning Angel, Mystic Snake, Pernicious Deed, Phyrexian Arena, Vindicate)
  • Future Sight - the craziest set of all time and as a result hugely played in every conceivable format (Aven Mindcensor, Bridge From Below, Grove of the Burnwillows, Horizon Canopy, Magus of the Moon, Narcomoeba, Pact of Negation, Street Wraith, and who could forget Tarmogoyf)
  • Worldwake - made a ghastly draft format a little better and had a bunch of multi-format all-stars (Bokuja Bog, Amulet of Vigor, allied manlands, Death's Shadow, Eye of Ugin, JTMS, Lodestone Golem, Nature's Claim, Stoneforge Mystic)
  • New Phyrexia - wanted to be a large set and was mostly designed like one, this is another one that broke so many rules it's had tons of relevant cards everywhere (Batterrskull, Birthing Pod, Dismember, Elesh Norn, Gitaxian Probe, Karn Liberated, Mental Misstep)

That's... not a great hit rate.
 
T

TheBlackMarvel

Member
traveler said:
Still not clear on why Bolas went about things the way he did. Like, all of this was just to get a zombie army? Surely, there are less convoluted ways to go about getting a skilled army? And, furthermore, if Amonkhet was to be a harvesting ground, why trash it totally? Why not make the coming of the God Pharaoh a periodic ritual, where he can harvest crops and take them onto the "promised afterlife", making an appearance to bolster the faith of his followers on the plane, and promising to return to harvest more later? Seems like a total waste to just destroy everything. I kind of expected.... better our of Magic's supposed mastermind. Bolas' strength, rather than being represented through a truly cunning plan to achieve incredible power, has thus far been shown in the most boring and, well, unfair manner possible- the guy just trashes gods and planeswalkers like it's nothing, both pre and post mending. It's the same escalation of power I find boring and frustrating when I hear about stuff like cosmic marvel's villains.

And the final question I have- and this, to be fair, will be addressed in time I'm sure- is what is the army for? What threat is Bolas planning to take on that he with his already incredible power can't deal with but an army of purple metal zombies can?
Click to expand...

This. His whole "plan" just feels small and wasteful. He has a factory essentially producing infinite numbers of zombies that he wrecks for essentially no reason. To make matters worse, the plane surviving this makes no sense and the Gatewatch escaping essentially unharmed is ridiculous.
 
I

Infinite Stars

Member
I mean, if we're talking good small sets, I feel like Oath and Moon deserve to be on the list, because they did the job much much better then something like even Aether Revolt.

As for Bolas' Grand Plan, I think the general idea is this:

With the Eternals and the Planar Portal, he effectively has an Army of undead elite he can use to gain more power by being able to warp in Eternals as his muscle. The issue is that I can't imagine what he gains by half-assing the destruction of the plane, especially since we know Hazoret/The Exiles are left alive in a cruel desert to wander. If he wanted them dead, why not outright do so? If he wanted them alive, why not make the system sustaining?

The fact that Bolas has all of the Gatewatch dead to Rights but doesn't actually kill them is such bullshit. It's like if Bane in TDKR did everything but the backbreaking. If one of the Gatewatch isn't openly different following the stories, idk what the game plan is.
 
A

Ashodin

Member
charlequin said:
That's... not a great hit rate.
Click to expand...

Now let's talk about my favorite small sets!

Torment and Judgment! (lol at the leak) Capping off amazing Odyssey block was the wildly received Torment (heavy black) and Judgment (heavy green/white to compensate). Such a brilliant and wild move.

DARKSTEEL - This. set. rocked. Darksteel as a concept (indestructible metal with the sick gold ring lines) was cool af, Modular was broken af, Equipment got kick ass, and brought us the Shield of Kaldra, which foretold Helm of Kaldra in Fifth Dawn.

GUILDPACT - holy shit how can Ravnica get even better?! Add the missing guilds you idiot! In came Orzhov, Izzet, and Gruul to crash the party and tax your ass to kingdom come. Added a lot of mechanics that some people hated, but were cool (haunt).

MIRRODIN BESIEGED - Added a fuckton of EDH staples

OATH FO THE GATEWATCH - Colorless symbol! Weird Eldrazi like Thought-Knot Seer! Chandra! Nissa! Kalitas! Just great set. Also my homie Stone Haven Outfitter who I ran for 2 years.

AETHER REVOLT - Heart. of. Kiran. Aethersphere Harvester! So many good vehicles! Yasssssss
 
M

m4st4

Member
I'm relatively new to MTG, went back to collecting after 12-15 years. And I noticed a pattern on every single MTG-dedicated board. People bitch about every single card, a lot. Is that a common occurence after 25 years of anything or is it just the state of current MTG community? I'm legitimately curious because I tend to look at the card and go from 'holy shit' to 'uh-oh people think this is trash (?)' fairly quickly.

Is it my lack of knowledge of specific similar cards from other sets or just the overall toxicity after so many years, similar to, say WoW post-Cataclysm?

I went back to MTG to enjoy collecting, catch up on the lore, enjoy the amazing art pieces and, ultimately even play some games with bros, or online. I also discovered Commander recently. In my opinion it's pretty amazing how WotC is capable of producing this much content per year and STAY RELEVANT, isn't that commendable at least? These sets are bound to clash from time to time and they ough to have a recovery 'conservative' period from time to time, that's to be expected.

And yes, IXALAN is life.
 
F

Firemind

Member
Yeef said:
R7qzuFT.jpg
Click to expand...
Sure, everything is in green's colour pie anyway.

traveler said:
Bolas' strength, rather than being represented through a truly cunning plan to achieve incredible power, has thus far been shown in the most boring and, well, unfair manner possible- the guy just trashes gods and planeswalkers like it's nothing, both pre and post mending. It's the same escalation of power I find boring and frustrating when I hear about stuff like cosmic marvel's villains.
Click to expand...
It's pretty bullshit if the Gatewatch are all unscathed, yes. Do they have plot armour against Bolas' corruption or something? RIP Tezzeret

Ashodin said:
GUILDPACT - holy shit how can Ravnica get even better?! Add the missing guilds you idiot! In came Orzhov, Izzet, and Gruul to crash the party and tax your ass to kingdom come. Added a lot of mechanics that some people hated, but were cool (haunt).
Click to expand...
Yeah, Guildpact was conceptually a much better set than Dissension which had Forecast, Hellbent and Graft. Bloodthirst became a returning mechanic and it had fairly playable cards like Electrolyze, Angel of Despair, Giant Solifuge and Leyline of the Void. (Screw graveyard based strategies forever)

Some other small sets that I have a soft spot for:
Nemesis (Blastoderm, Daze, Accumulated Knowledge, Tangle Wire)
Planeshift (Flametongue Kavu, Meddling Mage, Terminate, Dromar's Charm)
Planar Chaos (Damnation, Boom / Bust, Harmonize, Simian Spirit Guide
 
V

Vangu Vegro

Member
My personal favorite small sets:

Antiquities - Set the standard for set themes way before they were even really a thing.
Stronghold - Can't really put my finger on why, but I really enjoyed what this set had to offer.
Urza's Destiny - The perfect finisher to one of my favorite blocks.
Apocalypse - Finally breathed some much-needed life into enemy color combos and introduced the idea of wedges.
Torment & Judgment - I understand the problems inherent to colorwise unbalanced sets, but this was such a cool idea, and one I wish we could have seen more of.
Dissension - The first and last time I actually could stand Ravnica.
Future Sight - Most intriguing set ever. Best card frames ever. Yum!
Eventide Hybrid mana's great. Enemy colors are even better.
New Phyrexia - Usually I prefer interesting mechanics to raw power. This time I didn't get only one of them.
Journey into Nyx - Born of the Gods had problems, but Journey more than made up for them.
Fate Reforged - Loved the way the alternate timeline theme was reflected in this set mechanically.

Frankly, you could almost say I prefer (most) small sets to (most) large ones.
 
H

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
charlequin said:
BTW, since there's a pretty negative impression of this set forming and it's very close to being the last small set ever, I figured that (much like three-set blocks before) it might be worth scanning through the list of what there has been to figure out when this set size has ever actually worked.

Looking it over, this is what I can propose as a list of good small sets ever:

  • Alliances - this is the first expansion to a large set, and the home of a ton of major cards that went on to be significant to competitive Magic for years to come. (Major hits: Thawing Glaciers, Force of Will, Kjeldoran Outpost)
  • Visions - a lot of the best stuff from Mirage all got cut to include here, and at the time it was seen as absolutely jam-packed full of playable stuff. (Uktabi Orangutan, Nekrataal, Man-o-War)
  • Exodus - a powerful set that was home to a ton of significant cards, many of which are still huge in eternal formats (Sphere of Resistance, City of Traitors, Recurring Nightmare, Oath of Druids, Coat of Arms, Seismic Assault, Hatred, Mind Over Matter....)
  • Apocalypse - the first set to pay off a theme and for a long time basically the only source of enemy-pair cards. (enemy painlands, Fire//Ice, Lightning Angel, Mystic Snake, Pernicious Deed, Phyrexian Arena, Vindicate)
  • Future Sight - the craziest set of all time and as a result hugely played in every conceivable format (Aven Mindcensor, Bridge From Below, Grove of the Burnwillows, Horizon Canopy, Magus of the Moon, Narcomoeba, Pact of Negation, Street Wraith, and who could forget Tarmogoyf)
  • Worldwake - made a ghastly draft format a little better and had a bunch of multi-format all-stars (Bokuja Bog, Amulet of Vigor, allied manlands, Death's Shadow, Eye of Ugin, JTMS, Lodestone Golem, Nature's Claim, Stoneforge Mystic)
  • New Phyrexia - wanted to be a large set and was mostly designed like one, this is another one that broke so many rules it's had tons of relevant cards everywhere (Batterrskull, Birthing Pod, Dismember, Elesh Norn, Gitaxian Probe, Karn Liberated, Mental Misstep)

That's... not a great hit rate.
Click to expand...

I don't really get what the criteria is here. Draft? Constructed? Non rotating?
 
T

ThLunarian

Member
traveler said:
Still not clear on why Bolas went about things the way he did. Like, all of this was just to get a zombie army? Surely, there are less convoluted ways to go about getting a skilled army? And, furthermore, if Amonkhet was to be a harvesting ground, why trash it totally? Why not make the coming of the God Pharaoh a periodic ritual, where he can harvest crops and take them onto the "promised afterlife", making an appearance to bolster the faith of his followers on the plane, and promising to return to harvest more later? Seems like a total waste to just destroy everything. I kind of expected.... better our of Magic's supposed mastermind. Bolas' strength, rather than being represented through a truly cunning plan to achieve incredible power, has thus far been shown in the most boring and, well, unfair manner possible- the guy just trashes gods and planeswalkers like it's nothing, both pre and post mending. It's the same escalation of power I find boring and frustrating when I hear about stuff like cosmic marvel's villains.

And the final question I have- and this, to be fair, will be addressed in time I'm sure- is what is the army for? What threat is Bolas planning to take on that he with his already incredible power can't deal with but an army of purple metal zombies can?
Click to expand...


I think someone suggested that these zombies are immune to Emrakul's corruption (which is consistent with Liliana's normal zombies being immune to it) and also to Phyrexian compleation (not sure where the evidence of this comes from, but sure why not). If this turns out to be true, then it could be that he is aware of the substantial threats that the Eldrazi and the Phyrexians pose, and wants to be prepared for them.

Who knows - maybe he'll end up saving the multiverse from the Phyrexians thanks to these guys.
 
C

Cosmo Clock 21

Banned
ThLunarian said:
I think someone suggested that these zombies are immune to Emrakul's corruption (which is consistent with Liliana's normal zombies being immune to it) and also to Phyrexian compleation (not sure where the evidence of this comes from, but sure why not). If this turns out to be true, then it could be that he is aware of the substantial threats that the Eldrazi and the Phyrexians pose, and wants to be prepared for them.

Who knows - maybe he'll end up saving the multiverse from the Phyrexians thanks to these guys.
Click to expand...
The Gatewatch as a collective have a horrible winrate of ruining planes rather than saving them. It'd be hilarious if Bolas ends up with a better record
 
Y

Yeef

Member
m4st4 said:
I'm relatively new to MTG, went back to collecting after 12-15 years. And I noticed a pattern on every single MTG-dedicated board. People bitch about every single card, a lot. Is that a common occurence after 25 years of anything or is it just the state of current MTG community? I'm legitimately curious because I tend to look at the card and go from 'holy shit' to 'uh-oh people think this is trash (?)' fairly quickly.

Is it my lack of knowledge of specific similar cards from other sets or just the overall toxicity after so many years, similar to, say WoW post-Cataclysm?

I went back to MTG to enjoy collecting, catch up on the lore, enjoy the amazing art pieces and, ultimately even play some games with bros, or online. I also discovered Commander recently. In my opinion it's pretty amazing how WotC is capable of producing this much content per year and STAY RELEVANT, isn't that commendable at least? These sets are bound to clash from time to time and they ough to have a recovery 'conservative' period from time to time, that's to be expected.

And yes, IXALAN is life.
Click to expand...
A big part of it is just internet hyperbole. Anytime you're discussing anything with the fandom on the internet, everything is either the best ever or utter trash. There's no middle ground.

Part of it is also that competitive players tend to be the most outspoken online. If a card isn't going to make waves in the tournament scene, then it's not good, from their perspective.
 
F

Familienoberhauptvogel

Banned
Yeef said:
A big part of it is just internet hyperbole. Anytime you're discussing anything with the fandom on the internet, everything is either the best ever or utter trash. There's no middle ground.

Part of it is also that competitive players tend to be the most outspoken online. If a card isn't going to make waves in the tournament scene, then it's not good, from their perspective.
Click to expand...
Except there's commander players too.
 
D

DrArchon

Member
Ashodin said:
This is what I got so far brewing. LMK if you have any thoughts or additions.

bAYuMHr.gif


(Regal Caracal is Horse)
Click to expand...

I was thinking about a monoW deck with Glory-Bound Initiate, Aerial Responder, maybe Lone Rider if I'm feeling extra ballsy.

Seriously, I'm actually pretty interested in this horse. It's really just a Sandwurm Convergence that doesn't cost a million mana. Extert Glory-Bound Initiate, doesn't matter if they block or not, make a 5/5. Embalm Sacred Cat, chump block something, make a 5/5. Aerial Responder attacks, makes a 5/5, sits back so he can block and make another 5/5.

Plus, Felidar Sovereign hasn't rotated out yet. Just in case you can't win with a bunch of 5/5s.
 
S

SigmasonicX

Member
It doesn't help against a flashed in Avacyn blocker, but pretty nice. It even kills non-Bolas gods. EDIT: Actually, I suppose something killed by Avacyn would have died to this spell on second main phase anyway.

As for the story, remember that the art books have always gotten story details wrong. I imagine the Gatewatch defeat will go differently when actually written out.
 
T

Tunoku

Member
SigmasonicX said:
It doesn't help against a flashed in Avacyn blocker, but pretty nice. It even kills non-Bolas gods.

As for the story, remember that the art books have always gotten story details wrong. I imagine the Gatewatch defeat will go differently when actually written out.
Click to expand...

Why not? Avacyn's ETB effect would resolve before Hour, making all creatures lose indestructible upon resolution of the sweeper itself. Same thing goes for Selfless Spirit.
 
H

Hero

Member
SigmasonicX said:
It doesn't help against a flashed in Avacyn blocker, but pretty nice. It even kills non-Bolas gods. EDIT: Actually, I suppose something killed by Avacyn would have died to this spell on second main phase anyway.

As for the story, remember that the art books have always gotten story details wrong. I imagine the Gatewatch defeat will go differently when actually written out.
Click to expand...

How does it not help against Avacyn?
 
S

SigmasonicX

Member
Tunoku said:
Why not? Avacyn's ETB effect would resolve before Hour, making all creatures lose indestructible upon resolution of the sweeper itself. Same thing goes for Selfless Spirit.
Click to expand...
I was thinking of the case where Avacyn blocks your attacking creature, but a creature stopped by that probably would have died to Hour of Devastation on the second main phase anyway.
 
D

DrArchon

Member
I'm confused at Bolas's plan here. Why is he trying to destroy all of the work he put into making an Eternal factory? Wouldn't he want his plan to continue indefinitely and have unlimited Eternals? This seems like such a huge waste of time and effort, espeically when he can't do anything with the Eternals without a planear portal. You'd think he wouldn't have come back to Amonkhet until he had one of those secured, not right after one of them slipped right out of his fingers.

Fuck, this plot makes no damn sense.
 
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