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[legacyzero]

Add a touch of racism to it?

so exclude minorities, violate basic human rights, and try to fuck with the supreme court's makeup in order to get left-leaning policy goals implemented, got it

Yeah. Cause that was what had him be one of the longest term presidents, forcing congress to later support rules limiting presidential terms to two, aside from pulling the nation out of the largest gutter it's ever been in aside from the Civil War, etc etc.

Come on. That's not what I meant at all. Jesus.

His New Deal particularly.

It's almost as if the Overton Window wasn't in a completely different place then too. That's almost the Republican talking point of "Democrats created the KKK!"

 

[El_Tiguere]

Left populism doesn't have a very good winning record in the United States, at least for modern times.

The populism wave has been climaxing only as of late, after 7+ years of a "recovery" has left too many middle income and lower income families behind. We are reaching a fever anti-establishment pitch in this country BECAUSE people have caught onto the fact that our government is despotic, and serves the interests of the wealthy few above those of the rest of Americans. This is something BOTH sides can agree on.

 

[Maledict]

Lol no, Vox. Biden is where it's at. Biden's only "liability" in previous primaries was his occasional off-color remarks. Post-trump, this liability is laughable, at best.

Biden would be the perfect match up for Trump (if he makes it to 2020). He would be good against Pence too.

Biden's main liability, which everyone seems to ignore because he's funny, is that he's the most right wing democrat out of both clintons and Obama. He's the guy who wanted Obama to drop the fight over contraceptives in the affordable care act because it would rile up Catholics. He's the guy who made the agreement over Thompson's confirmation. And if Hillary had a problem with her vote for the crime bills in the 90s, what do you think one of the authors of those bills would have?

If you look at Biden's actual policies, I think people will be be surprised. Jokes and gafs aside, if the best we can do for a nominee in 2020 is a old white guy who makes Clinton look left wing, then I think the progressive movement has real issues.

 

[whyamihere]

I think is more bizarre that you brought up this absolutely unrelated discussion here and that you seem to get so personally hurt by my candid Switch comments.

I think continuously trying to relive the primary and an us-vs-them mentality on this forum instead of trying to build consensus on your policy positions is a really dumb thing I'm tired of. I think bringing up this supposed "HillGAF" that is Hillary or die as some sort of monolithic entity is dumb, especially since things have become so much more complicated since the primary, especially a lot of people who voted for Hillary in the primary. And I think the fact that you're the only person on this forum who continuously shitposts on the Switch's success if untethered from reality and increasingly bizarre.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Yeah. Cause that was what had him be one of the longest term presidents, forcing congress to later support rules limiting presidential terms to two, aside from pulling the nation out of the largest gutter it's ever been in aside from the Civil War, etc etc.

Come on. That's not what I meant at all. Jesus.

White America only accepted the New Deal because it was highly segregated.

This isn't really disputed history or anything controversial. He literally had to include segregation to pass anything he wanted.

 

[whyamihere]

Okay, Booker Democrats, then. You get my point.

No, I think your point is wrong. She succeeded by doing well in those poorer, rural areas than Republicans normally do.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Yeah. Cause that was what had him be one of the longest term presidents, forcing congress to later support rules limiting presidential terms to two, aside from pulling the nation out of the largest gutter it's ever been in aside from the Civil War, etc etc.

Come on. That's not what I meant at all. Jesus.

I mean, FDR was insanely racist in policy. He squashed anti-lynching laws and put Japanese Americans in camps while being as racist to Jesse Owens as Hitler (literally Hitler) was. He obviously felt that it was politically important to be the most racist person possible.

 

[legacyzero]

White America only accepted the New Deal because it was highly segregated.

This isn't really disputed history or anything controversial. He literally had to include segregation to pass anything he wanted.

You're right. And it's terrible. But my point is- where would we be now without it, I wonder. What else would have been possible pre-civil rights era?

 

[eBay Huckster]

It's almost as if the Overton Window wasn't in a completely different place then too.

i mean, substantively speaking, it's not very different for white people compared to 80 years ago! (they just like their racism sweetened with splenda instead of sugar)

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

His age is a concern, but there's really not any other candidate even half as good as he is. So unless someone else can wind up coming along, there really is not a more appealing option. The Left has been systematically destroyed in this country, so aside from Bernie there aren't really many candidates who have much experience in the government.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Biden is a creep and he's been a racist and sexist for most of his life. Not calling on witnesses that would have backed up Anita Hill will stop him from ever winning a Dem primary.

You're right. And it's terrible. But my point is- where would we be now without it, I wonder

?

What does this post even mean.

I'm genuinely confused.

 

[kirblar]

With the exception of Washington County, none of these are out of the norm, and fall, at best, into the lower middle class. You also conveniently skipped out on her wealthier countries, including Essex County ($53,976), Warren County ($56,798), and Dutchess County ($71,904!!!). That sort of cherrypicking should beneath you.

Apparently, outright lying isn't beneath you?:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_County,_New_York#Demographics

The median income for a household in the county was $39,198, and the median income for a family was $46,793. Males had a median income of $32,922 versus $22,279 for females. The per capita income for the county was $20,727. About 7.20% of families and 9.70% of the population were below the poverty line, including 14.10% of those under age 18 and 5.90% of those age 65 or over.[18]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essex_County,_New_York#Demographics

The median income for a household in the county was $34,823, and the median income for a family was $41,927. Males had a median income of $30,952 versus $22,205 for females. The per capita income for the county was $18,194. Of the population, 11.60% of individuals, 7.80% of families, 14.50% of those under the age of 18, and 8.60% of those 65 and older, were living below the poverty line.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutchess_County,_New_York#Demographics

The median income for a household in the county was $53,086, and the median income for a family was $63,254. Males had a median income of $45,576 versus $30,706 for females. The per capita income for the county was $23,940. About 5.00% of families and 7.50% of the population were below the poverty line, including 8.50% of those under age 18 and 6.50% of those age 65 or over.

Where in the hell are you pulling these numbers from?

 

[And_Gignac]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=225546715&postcount=194


ok (although sure, recent posts are just you trying to say Melenchon has momentum and might win, so your predictions aren't infallible either way :lol). I didn't even really imply that you're a fascist, mostly just that you think only far left candidates can beat the far right which is a really bizarre take.

Expose me.

Honestly I was still a little hurt by Melenchon's defeat .

I thought there was a risk of disgruntled socialist rurals behaving like brexitors but yeah it gladly didn't happen.

 

[Killa Sasa]

Just vote Dem whoever wins - extraordinary situations notwithstanding. Extremely extraordinary. Cause your countrymen fucked that up last time.

 

[fantomena]

What does this post even mean.

I'm genuinely confused.

Where would the US be today without the new deal, not that hard to calculate.

Just vote Dem whoever wins.

.

 

[whyamihere]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=225546715&postcount=194


ok (although sure, recent posts are just you trying to say Melenchon has momentum and might win, so your predictions aren't infallible either way :lol). I didn't even really imply that you're a fascist, mostly just that you think only far left candidates can beat the far right which is a really bizarre take.

Melkr! C'mon, man.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Apparently, outright lying isn't beneath you?:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_County,_New_York#Demographics

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essex_County,_New_York#Demographics

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutchess_County,_New_York#Demographics

Where in the hell are you pulling these numbers from?

The most recent data: https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/f...ncountynewyork,essexcountynewjersey/PST045216.

Yours are from the 2000 census - seventeen years out of date!

Much like your ideology, really.

 

[Atom Heart Mother]

I mean, FDR was insanely racist in policy. He squashed anti-lynching laws and put Japanese Americans in camps while being as racist to Jesse Owens as Hitler (literally Hitler) was. He obviously felt that it was politically important to be the most racist person possible.

Well, for me the positives out weight the negatives. He did pull us out of the depression and help win WW2. But I don't know, just me.

I think painting every major historical figure as a racist is getting old. Yeah, nobody was perfect but you can't just hate everyone because they were a bit of a dick. FDR is revered for a reason. What's next, we start hating our founding fathers?

 

[Sir Alemeth]

Bernie 2020.
America needs him.

 

[whyamihere]

Also just a reminder that Gillibrand won all of those counties, both rich AND poor.

Gillibrand defeated Sweeney in all the major population centers in the district, including Saratoga Springs, Troy, Rensselaer and Dutchess County. Gillibrand lost only rural and sparsely populated Delaware and Greene Counties to Sweeney.

Delaware and Greene are all traditionally lean-R districts.

The most recent data: https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/f...ncountynewyork,essexcountynewjersey/PST045216.

Yours are from the 2000 census - seventeen years out of date!

Much like your ideology, really.

But... she won in 2006...

 

[spiderman123]

Who else the dems got that is powerful other than Bernie. PPl didn't consider Obama a contender initially.

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

The most recent data: https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/f...ncountynewyork,essexcountynewjersey/PST045216.

Yours are from the 2000 census - seventeen years out of date!

Much like your ideology, really.

Why would you use numbers that were recorded after Gillibrand didn't even represent that district anymore?

She was the rep for NY-20 from 07 to 09.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

But... she won in 2006...

I mean, they were also wealthy in 2006? There's been no sudden reversal in fortune. NY 20 was above the American median household income in 2004, it still is now (or the areas that composed it, given 20 is now somewhere else entirely). kirblar is using 2000 numbers because he knows that they look low now because of inflation; it's a framing device and it is deeply disingenuous.

 

[kirblar]

I didn't realize the numbers were '00, but you would want to inflation-adjust those then, not use the current ones.

 

[Hydrophobic]

A viable candidate being eliminated based on age sure sounds like the actions of a low information voter.

My grandfather died of natural causes around age 85. The average life span of men in the US is about 79. At some point I just want to vote for someone that I have a reasonable expectation won't start encountering serious age-related illness or just plain old death in the middle of his term. I'd rather he help try to raise up a new, younger generation of people to lead the party instead of running again. Why does that make me a low information voter?

 

[Kin5290]

I see a lot of age discrimination in this thread.

I don't want (another) president who starts suffering from dementia midway through his term.

Police and commercial airline pilots both have mandatory retirement ages, and the President hold more responsibility and power than either of those.

 

[El_Tiguere]

Who else the dems got that is powerful other than Bernie. PPl didn't consider Obama a contender initially.

Nina Turner.

 

[GurgleBot20]

I mean, it's already kind of a reach that a person can't represent America if she can't talk to a 50 year old automobile worker....

 

[Linkura]

He would be if he were 10+ years younger. Unfortunately, he has a real chance of dying in office due to old age if he were to run and win in 2020.

 

[Isaac Otherworld]

Add a touch of racism to it?

You guys and your purity tests.

But seriously, Bernie Sanders has FDR's economic vision while also being one of the most progressive senators on racial, lgbt rights and social justice. It's why he's literally the most popular politician now.

Democrats best chance for 2020 is Clinton wing of the party to lay down their arms and unite behind Bernie Sanders and his message. Look at the gains made in the U.K. when the more conservative wing of the party stopped trying to sabotage Corbyn.

 

[whyamihere]

I mean, they were also wealthy in 2006? There's been no sudden reversal in fortune. NY 20 was above the American median household income in 2004, it still is now (or the areas that composed it, given 20 is now somewhere else entirely). kirblar is using 2000 numbers because he knows that they look low now because of inflation; it's a framing device and it is deeply disingenuous.

I mean, part of it, but Gillibrand was able to win it precisely because she was able to cut into those rural margins that usually keep the GOP afloat.

 

[Shadow Puppetry]

No one, Sanders belongs to independent folks...but other than that, he should let someone younger and offer him or her advices.

 

[ZeoVGM]

Bigger issue than what?

Than worrying about the results of that election.

If you think Bernie is, at all, an "idiot," you are completely ignorant.

 

[quickwhips]

Need someone in their 40s that can channel Joe Biden and Bernie.

 

[Maledict]

You guys and your purity tests.

But seriously, Bernie Sanders has FDR's economic vision while also being one of the most progressive senators on racial, lgbt rights and social justice. It's why he's literally the most popular politician now.

Democrats best chance for 2020 is Clinton wing of the party to lay down their arms and unite behind Bernie Sanders and his message. Look at the gains made in the U.K. when the more conservative wing of the party stopped trying to sabotage Corbyn.

And Corbyn moved more to the mainstream party platform. Let's not forget that Corbyn the leadership candidate and backbench MP is a very different bird to Corbyn the leader of the opposition. Labour's manifesto, whilst certainly more left wing than Blairs, was not that far left at all.

Both sides need to shift...

(I'd also say that popularity now is worthless. You remember who the most popular politician was for a long time? Hillary Clinton).

 

[loki 16]

I'm with Bernie 100% He should be a one term president and his VP should take on the job next. Someone like Nina Turner or Keith Ellison should be his VP.

 

[eBay Huckster]

yeah let's just elevate literally any random state legislative backbencher to the second-highest office in the country, what the fuck could possibly go wrong

 

[ZeoVGM]

He was a sore loser. He waited so long to concede and so long to endorse Hillary that it ended up helping Trump.

I'm a huge Hillary supporter and that's just not true. There is absolutely zero basis behind Trump getting "help" from Bernie waiting to concede.

I'm really fed up with this this whole "what if" scenario nonsense. If only Hillary campaigned harder in a couple more states, if only Bernie won the nomination, if only Bernie conceded early, etc.

Trump was beating Hillary no matter what. Trump was beating Bernie no matter what.

The Access Hollywood video came out -- a video of Trump literally admitting that he thinks sexual assault is okay -- and he still won.

This is simply where the country was going and we need to start understanding that and getting over it so we can focus on kicking ass in 2018 and 2020.

 

[Betty]

I'm a huge Hillary supporter and that's just not true. There is absolutely zero basis behind Trump getting "help" from Bernie waiting to concede.

I'm really fed up with this this whole "what if" scenario nonsense. If only Hillary campaigned harder in a couple more states, if only Bernie won the nomination, if only Bernie conceded early, etc.

Trump was beating Hillary no matter what. Trump was beating Bernie no matter what.

The Access Hollywood video came out -- a video of Trump literally admitting that he thinks sexual assault is okay -- and he still won.

This is simply where the country was going and we need to start understanding that and getting over it so we can focus on kicking ass in 2018 and 2020.

Right.

He still waited far too long to concede though and even if the amount of Bernie or Busters wasn't enough to tilt the election is was still unhelpful.

I remember all the frustration and annoyance at his refusal to face facts and Trump stoked Bernie supporters grievances every time Bernie refused to give in.

I'm sure we'll see something similar in the run up to 2020.

 

[Henchmen21]

I'm a huge Hillary supporter and that's just not true. There is absolutely zero basis behind Trump getting "help" from Bernie waiting to concede.

I'm really fed up with this this whole "what if" scenario nonsense. If only Hillary campaigned harder in a couple more states, if only Bernie won the nomination, if only Bernie conceded early, etc.

Trump was beating Hillary no matter what. Trump was beating Bernie no matter what.

The Access Hollywood video came out -- a video of Trump literally admitting that he thinks sexual assault is okay -- and he still won.

This is simply where the country was going and we need to start understanding that and getting over it so we can focus on kicking ass in 2018 and 2020.

Categorically and factually wrong

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_sanders-5565.html

 

[excelsiorlef]

I mean, they were also wealthy in 2006? There's been no sudden reversal in fortune. NY 20 was above the American median household income in 2004, it still is now (or the areas that composed it, given 20 is now somewhere else entirely). kirblar is using 2000 numbers because he knows that they look low now because of inflation; it's a framing device and it is deeply disingenuous.

Why not just acknowledge you were inaccurate rather than triple down.

 

[Ziltoidia 9]

The 2016 dem primary is the new Montreal screw job.

Did Vince screw Bret, or did Bret screw Bret?

 

[Betty]

Categorically and factually wrong

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_sanders-5565.html

Bernie couldn't beat Hillary but let's believe he could've beaten Trump who beat Hillary.

Sound logic.

All the polls and statistics don't change the fact Bernie would have done worse than Hillary on election day.

 

[eBay Huckster]

The 2016 dem primary is the new Montreal screw job.

Did Vince screw Bret, or did Bret screw Bret?

Both.

 

[btrboyev]

No and no.

 

[excelsiorlef]

You guys and your purity tests.

But seriously, Bernie Sanders has FDR's economic vision while also being one of the most progressive senators on racial, lgbt rights and social justice. It's why he's literally the most popular politician now.

Democrats best chance for 2020 is Clinton wing of the party to lay down their arms and unite behind Bernie Sanders and his message. Look at the gains made in the U.K. when the more conservative wing of the party stopped trying to sabotage Corbyn.

Should they clear the field too?

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

Categorically and factually wrong

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_sanders-5565.html

You know how silly it is to post theoretical polls from a general election that never happened?

 

[And_Gignac]

I think continuously trying to relive the primary and an us-vs-them mentality on this forum instead of trying to build consensus on your policy positions is a really dumb thing I'm tired of. I think bringing up this supposed "HillGAF" that is Hillary or die as some sort of monolithic entity is dumb, especially since things have become so much more complicated since the primary, especially a lot of people who voted for Hillary in the primary. And I think the fact that you're the only person on this forum who continuously shitposts on the Switch's success if untethered from reality and increasingly bizarre.

Is not monolithic but is certainly still there, as every Bernie thread getting so heated up shows (specially the one regarding the FBI and the Repblican instigated investigation). There is a very vocal group of gaf posters who are explicit in showing their dislike for left policies and their love for centrist views. And some of them use the Bernie / Clinton axis too. I see no wrong in this, tbh. Like I see no problem with me being explicit about not sympathizing with centrists views. Is not about the primary, is about conceptualizing the ideological -isms currently present in left / liberal politics that already existed but became clearer after the primary. Bernie and Clinton are great, accurate references.

Finally, me posting like 3 snarky comments questioning Switch's shipments situation in Japan is hardly the most extreme commentary you will find in the MC threads.

Oh, and Valentina WON.

 

[MMarston]

I see a lot of age discrimination in this thread.

This ain't exactly gonna be Michael Caine coming in to do a comedy movie for a paycheck.




This is running an entire country we're talking about here.



Still won't be as bad as being run by the senile 70 year old Cheeto though.

 

[matthewuk]

This is going to sound crazy, but I hope nether a democrat or a republican get in next time, the way things are going I wouldn't want to be ether of their shoes.