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[The ๖ۜBronx]

Honestly, as a designer, if you were to give me a day coming up with marks based around 'KEK' (assuming someone wanted to originally reference WoW) it wouldn't take long before I mirrored it and used three bars for the 'E'. Whether that's the case and this is all unintentional on the part of the designer, I don't know, and no one (here) likely will. That much is certainly far within the realms of possibility though.

I'm just glad that Bungie acted and are considerate enough to give it the time, and explanation, it deserves. Anyone still outraged needs to consider whether they care more about the original problem or just having an excuse to spit venom.

 

[TheCthultist]

So this thread's turned out exactly as expected then.
Good on bungie for putting out a statement on the matter at least. Was a little worried it'd be left at just the little info we had to go on originally and they'd never mention it again. As always, people are free to make what they will of the information provided. Personally I find their explanation to be totally believable.

 

[kiaaa]

I understand some of the skepticism because it isn't really that far off, but that also presents a problem.

It's a really simple design and I have trouble believing someone would make a design close enough to be identifiable without just copying the exact design of the flag.

 

[Pankratous]

How can people in this thread say they've honestly never heard 'kek' to mean lol?

Even in real life, people literally say "that was top kek"

People who haven't even played Warcraft or Starwhatever

It's a god among meme phrases. Normal people say it.

 

[Fukuzatsu]

How can people in this thread say they've honestly never heard 'kek' to mean lol?

Even in real life, people literally say "that was top kek"

People who haven't even played Warcraft or Starwhatever

It's a god among meme phrases. Normal people say it.

Okay now that I've never heard. A good number of my friends play games and even from them I've never heard anyone actually say it.

 

[ScaryShark]

Normal people say it.

No

 

[Tecnniqe]

No

No?

 

[UnluckyKate]

Bungie is better at communicating on why a hate meme made it to their game than or their balance patch philosophy.

 

[TheCthultist]

How can people in this thread say they've honestly never heard 'kek' to mean lol?

Yeah!

Even in real life, people literally say "that was top kek"

Uh... hmmm...

Normal people say it.

...N...No... sorry. Was with you for a minute there, but I can't think of a single instance in the history of the world that a "normal" person has ever uttered the term "kek" before... Sorry...

Hell, they have Futaba say it outloud in Persona 5... That alone should tell you how not normal that is...

 

[striferser]

Kek is definitely popular among dota or wow player. Kekiztan on the other hand not so much. I believe bungie explanation

 

[deefol]

White supremacists strike again, turning everything they touch into hate symbols

 

[Hesemonni]

No?

No.

 

[Kyzon]

How can people in this thread say they've honestly never heard 'kek' to mean lol?

Even in real life, people literally say "that was top kek"

People who haven't even played Warcraft or Starwhatever

It's a god among meme phrases. Normal people say it.

I've only thought of it as 40 keks. I thought it was cake armor. 🍰

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Glad it was apparently just a coincidence

How can people in this thread say they've honestly never heard 'kek' to mean lol?

Even in real life, people literally say "that was top kek"

People who haven't even played Warcraft or Starwhatever

It's a god among meme phrases. Normal people say it.

The general public doesn't pepper their speech with internet meme phrases and I have never, ever heard a human say kek out loud

 

[Interficium]

It's a god among meme phrases. Normal people say it.

I think you need to reevaluate what you consider to be "normal"

 

[Trike]

"Kek", the origin of the symbol of the Kekistan flag, has not been a hate symbol since inception.

That's fine, I am aware "kek" has been around since before "Kekistan". But the symbol being referenced here is the literal hate symbol that is Kekistan's flag. Not the word.

 

[Earthpainting]

The fact that Bungie's meme-clothes used the same logo and colour scheme that was deliberately modelled after fascist war flags might indeed be an unfortunate coincidence. Occam's Razor still makes it likely that someone simply saw the kekistan stuff, thought it was funny because it reminded them of an old meme and was simply oblivious to how this iconography was being used these days. Hateful memes seeming innocuous is kind of the entire point, so they can go viral beyond the scope of those "in the know". There's no way that a company a PR department would ever leave a negligence avenue hanging though.

Regardless of how it happened or whatever convenient creation date is put forth, someone probably should have noticed before launch. I'm not an MMO gamer, so my first introduction to "kek" was this year in the form of the "kekistan" and this exact type of imagery. It's unfortunate that they caught it too late, but I guess it's a good lesson about adding references and memes that are already living their own lives. You don't have much control over the content of your product after launch, but proper vetting during development seems necessary. Glad they're taking it seriously.

 

[Tecnniqe]

I think you need to reevaluate what you consider to be "normal"

Clearly what's normal for some is not for others.

It's like one I know who goes around saying "lol" to everything IRL.

 

[ScaryShark]

Clearly what's normal for some is not for others.

It's like one I know who goes around saying "lol" to everything IRL.

We're talking about societal norms. 'Kek' isn't every day common parlance anywhere. Only on a gaming forum would anyone even suggest it actually is.

 

[Widge]

The way I see it is as this. 4chan was always seen as the meme inception point of the internet. It was always seen as a rogue entity, but everyone let it mentally slide, even the more dubious elements, as it was just 4chan being 4chan. Over 9000, jimmies rustled, top keks - it was just a weird and harmless internet subculture.

Only recently have the lines been hardened pointing towards the malicious intent of the contents of 4chan. Suddenly the frog, black and white paint images, white font text, kek... it's all got a different meaning, and all valid. What was just a bit of lol based nonsense in 2015, is a very different scenario today.

So you can either take what Bungie says or not. But if the answer is "not", the thing to ask is "what would you have expected to happen" because this clearly is not it.

 

[Audioboxer]

After the other very long thread with lots of people calling for someone/some people's job without any sort of due process (and saying 100% NOT a coincidence) it should give some thinking for many. When the internet mobilizes it can get things done, but the internet can make mistakes.

Although the design wasn't emulative of the meme in question, the armor piece was eventually flagged by another team responsible for reviewing content for cultural, geographical, and other sensitive issues. Unfortunately, that review was conducted to explore whether or not we were comfortable with the connection to the original, innocuous ”kek" internet meme. The more contemporary, vile derivation that has been repurposed by hate groups was not surfaced through this process, and therefore, the armor was approved for ship.

So a design from 2015 that was a coincidence to resemble kek. As kek meant lol from World of Warcraft then it was just a coincidental cultural reference at best.

Either now people are happy it's patched out and with the lengthy explanation, or you continue to piss your energy into the wind. As many invested all their beliefs and effort into this I foresee many will continue to do the later. It's entirely possible to fight white supremacy where it exists, rather than going down some conspiracy theory path just because you might have gotten this one wrong.

As what is up next is doubling down and saying not only do Bungie have white supremacist employees, but the company itself and its CEO is now defending and purposefully harbouring white supremacists. I mean, cmon people, there comes a point after multiple degrees of separation within an unfortunate design decision where you are "looking for Jesus in a piece of toast".

 

[Tecnniqe]

After the other very long thread with lots of people calling for someone/some people's job without any sort of due process (and saying 100% NOT a coincidence) it should give some thinking for many. When the internet mobilizes it can get things done, but the internet can make mistakes.

GAF is pretty extreme on these things, there's no due process or time to wait for any information so might as well dig into who it is, call them a WP, call for their job and call the entire firm a safe zone for WPs in the industry and dig deeper for something to add to the witch hunt.

It's a absolutely ridiculous notion but as it's pretty clear their views does not change after these investigations, they're stuck in a bubble where everyone is a supremacist and coincidence does not occur.

It's incredible.

High horse GAF is the worst GAF.

 

[Audioboxer]

GAF is pretty extreme on these things, there's no due process or time to wait for any information so might as well dig into who it is, call them a WP, call for their job and call the entire firm a safe zone for WPs in the industry and dig deeper for something to add to the witch hunt.

It's a absolutely ridiculous notion but as it's pretty clear their views does not change after these investigations, they're stuck in a bubble where everyone is a supremacist and coincidence does not occur.

It's incredible.

High horse GAF is the worst GAF.

Well, GAF does have 190k+ users (a nod from me to a diversity of opinion). I argued at length in that topic two main things, first, unfortunate design choices can be made without sinister intent (accidental swastikas and accidental cock and balls took centre stage). Obviously, something like a swastika or white supremacist symbol is genuinely concerning in a design, accidental cock and balls aren't. That's not moral equivalence in play, but showing how things get passed design, let alone Q&A. Some designs catch the eyes as worrying, others you can just laugh your ass off at. I get that.

Secondly, that demanding someone be fired without due process didn't sit ethically correct with me, nor did some of the more crazy posts such as "fire some cunt live on twitch". I did say if it's proven there is intent and malice, sure, disciplinary/firing is and should be an acceptable outcome. To some that is of course "both siding" the debate, a frequent coined term on the internet these days to imply absolutely nothing can be investigated/looked at, everything is as is at face value (usually whatever the worst face value is). Considering right from the start this drama was speculative and had an unidentified source, "both sides" was relevant here more than ever. Listen to what Bungie are saying and investigating, don't just educate yourself on takes from angry YouTubers convinced Nazis are within Bungie HQ. Such as those stating like fact this was a white male supremacist that made the design without there even being a name known of anyone in the design team...

 

[Gluka]

High horse GAF is the worst GAF.

The irony.

 

[Tecnniqe]

Well, GAF does have 190k+ users (a nod from me to a diversity of opinion). I argued at length in that topic two main things, first, unfortunate design choices can be made without sinister intent (accidental swastikas and accidental cock and balls took centre stage). Obviously, something like a swastika or white supremacist symbol is genuinely concerning in a design, accidental cock and balls aren't. That's not moral equivalence in play, but showing how things get passed design, let alone Q&A. Some designs catch the eyes as worrying, others you can just laugh your ass off at. I get that.

Secondly, that demanding someone be fired without due process didn't sit ethically correct with me, nor did some of the more crazy posts such as "fire some cunt live on twitch". I did say if it's proven there is intent and malice, sure, disciplinary/firing is and should be an acceptable outcome. To some that is of course "both siding" the debate, a frequent coined term on the internet these days to imply absolutely nothing can be investigated/looked at, everything is as is at face value (usually whatever the worst face value is). Considering right from the start this drama was speculative and had an unidentified source, "both sides" was relevant here more than ever. Listen to what Bungie are saying and investigating, don't just educate yourself on takes from angry YouTubers convinced Nazis are within Bungie HQ. Such as those stating like fact this was a white male supremacist that made the design without there even being a name known of anyone in the design team...

The word GAF is used to describe the threads where this occur, as it's easier than naming names, where the majority have the same train chooing along the tracks. There are a lot of people so it's not a brush of everyone under the same umbrella as there are a lot of different view points.

The explanation for everything and the timeline makes sense. QA found it to resemble KEK from WoW and let it slide, as it is harmless. But here we are..

The irony.

Who's your main, Irony man.

 

[Scrawnton]

How can people in this thread say they've honestly never heard 'kek' to mean lol?

Even in real life, people literally say "that was top kek"

People who haven't even played Warcraft or Starwhatever

It's a god among meme phrases. Normal people say it.

Normal people don't say kek. Gamers who frequent message boards or regular internet nerds say kek. And even then it's a stretch. I played WoW at launch for a few years and I knew kek meant lol but I had ZERO idea it took on some cult racist status.

 

[cubicle47b]

The history of the gauntlet design is almost certainly in source control. If Bungie were lying about when it was created it to protect a white supremacist employee someone within the company would expose them and it would devastate their brand.

 

[Audioboxer]

The word GAF is used to describe the threads where this occur, as it's easier than naming names, where the majority have the same train chooing along the tracks. There are a lot of people so it's not a brush of everyone under the same umbrella as there are a lot of different view points.

The explanation for everything and the timeline makes sense. QA found it to resemble KEK from WoW and let it slide, as it is harmless. But here we are..

Who's your main, Irony man.

I know, but people usually understandably get their feathers ruffled if they think you're trying to say the site is collective.

I can empathise a bit with the way a mind works if it convinces itself this is 100% white supremacy, and how can anyone argue otherwise?! White supremacy is bad, therefore anyone not thinking like me must be complicit? Of course, that will get you hot and bothered. I had one or two posters casually infer because I wasn't sharing the popular opinion in that topic I had ulterior motives. That's when it starts to get a bit annoying on a message board, as not only are individuals proclaiming they have a crystal ball to know 100% how a scenario played out that has some blanks (not to mention Bungie saying right away, not intended and apologising), they also claim to know 100% what your intentions are and who you are as a person. It can get a bit fucky at times, and it's why in some instances in life, you do need more information or you do need to prepare yourself to accept an outcome that isn't the outcome you are 100% convinced is the case. When we're talking about people being tarred for life and losing a job over a piece of armour in a videogame, yeah, you might well get people "both siding" it when there isn't much public information. Just look what has happened here. It was a coincidence coupled with the armour being approved well before the 2017 kek flag/co-opting, yet there is a topic on this board Bungie (or Bungie employees) probably did read calling them everything under the sun and demanding they lose their jobs.

I honestly think due to the size of GAF and industry people who read it, it played a part in Bungie further explaining things. I wouldn't like to have been an employee of Bungie reading that other topic, even if I understood the initial upset.

Audioboxer continuing to be the voice of sense on GAF

I was making some assumptions as well! I did just look at the whole thing, Bungie's initial response and ask myself what's likely here? Both situations could have been true, and that was really what I tried to point out in a topic with a vocal majority saying it was 100% intentional. It's not a competition, but as I said when people are vocally and aggressively calling for heads to roll there may well be a counter-argument made for let's get more information/investigate first before firing as quickly as humanly possible. Serving knee-jerk emotions and opinion isn't always the correct way to handle something, even if there are many examples of what something appears to be is how it is.

 

[Thornton Reed]

After the other very long thread with lots of people calling for someone/some people's job without any sort of due process (and saying 100% NOT a coincidence) it should give some thinking for many. When the internet mobilizes it can get things done, but the internet can make mistakes.



So a design from 2015 that was a coincidence to resemble kek. As kek meant lol from World of Warcraft then it was just a coincidental cultural reference at best.

Either now people are happy it's patched out and with the lengthy explanation, or you continue to piss your energy into the wind. As many invested all their beliefs and effort into this I foresee many will continue to do the later. It's entirely possible to fight white supremacy where it exists, rather than going down some conspiracy theory path just because you might have gotten this one wrong.

As what is up next is doubling down and saying not only do Bungie have white supremacist employees, but the company itself and its CEO is now defending and purposefully harbouring white supremacists. I mean, cmon people, there comes a point after multiple degrees of separation within an unfortunate design decision where you are "looking for Jesus in a piece of toast".

Audioboxer continuing to be the voice of sense on GAF

 

[Axass]

I should have been more clear in my original post. My apologies. I'm not saying they're at fault. I'm just uncomfortable with people saying it's no biggie when stuff like this is pretty serious. It was clearly an accident, they explained themselves, and made good. But I still think the whole ordeal is serious.

You have a pretty weird idea of what serious means.

It's not like the symbol unintentionally being there for a bunch of days helped white supremacists turn people to their cause or gave them some sort of recognition.

Serious is Charlottesville, voting a misogynist, racist dumbfuck as president of the USA, people killing each other for stupid reasons, not some obscure hate symbol being unintentionally evoked with similar shapes on some super rare item in a video game.

 

[Kinyou]

Wow, everyone's taking that "2015" at face value, are they.

Does bungie have to show you the original files? That they gave such an in-depth response is already unprecedented

The history of the gauntlet design is almost certainly in source control. If Bungie were lying about when it was created it to protect a white supremacist employee someone within the company would expose them and it would devastate their brand.

Exactly. I'll take the likelihood of a coincidence over a company conspiracy

 

[Spiritwalker]

Top kek is indeed very common, and I imagine most people/kids have no idea what it really means. I certainly didn't until this thread. To me it's just "lol" basically.

And yes I play WoW.

 

[Bluehound]

Kek has always been, FOR MANY YEARS, at least to me, a sound for laughing. Even in many video games (starting from 90's, maybe even 80's) there have been enemies who laugh in style of "Kekekekekek" (forgot which ones, but I am 100 % sure there have been). Should those games be banned from existence?

Just because some surpremacists or other narrow-minded people "conveniently" steal some uncommon words, gesture or picture for their own use (which has essentially meant something absolutely different previously), it doesn't have to be assosicated with anything negatively for most people. Why do they take some kind of fictitious made-up country meme in 4chan seriously in the first place?

Bungie has done nothing wrong if their piece of equipment imagery hasn't been created to promote any sort of negativity. Why should people, who haven't done anything wrong, apologize?

 

[Enter The 36 Chambers]

Including misanthropic, hateful iconography is a "biggie," intentional or not. The apology does not erase this fact, however much it redresses the issue.

No its not.

I had no.idea what the reference even was before the "controversy".

 

[hodgy100]

I've never heard kek used in any other context than from the mouths of misogynists and white supremacists. How have you heard it used?

it literally originates from World of warcraft where the two factions speak different languages and the word "lol" would appear as "kek" to an opposing faction.

 

[guggnichso]

Well, regarding the colour and the symbols, they also might have been inspired by german military insignia:

 

[RionaaM]

After the other very long thread with lots of people calling for someone/some people's job without any sort of due process (and saying 100% NOT a coincidence) it should give some thinking for many. When the internet mobilizes it can get things done, but the internet can make mistakes.

Of course. Still, bear in mind that we are just random people with an internet connection, no decision-making power and no knowledge of all the facts who are posting on a discussion forum, which is why we don't have a say in Bungie's payroll. We can only react to what we can see, and for me it seemed like it was intentional. With Bungie's explanation I have learned I was wrong.

That said, I do agree that the internet provides ample opportunity to engage in hateful practices such as harassment and stalking, as demonstrated during Gamergate, and it's our responsibility to not tolerate that kind of crap. This can and should be a lesson not to react too quickly before learning the facts, indeed.

 

[FlutterPuffs]

No

Yes, yes they do.

Especially if you're in the creative industry.

 

[Sesuadra]

How can people in this thread say they've honestly never heard 'kek' to mean lol?

Even in real life, people literally say "that was top kek"

People who haven't even played Warcraft or Starwhatever

It's a god among meme phrases. Normal people say it.

what country are you from? In germany I've never heard anyone use it, and I live in one of the biggest student cities and studied here for 6 years.

 

[Ramirez]

How can people in this thread say they've honestly never heard 'kek' to mean lol?

Even in real life, people literally say "that was top kek"

People who haven't even played Warcraft or Starwhatever

It's a god among meme phrases. Normal people say it.

I played WoW for like 6 years back in the day and had completely forgot lol translated to kek for opposite factions. "Normal" people most certainly don't walk around saying kek or probably even know what it means, lol.

 

[JDB]

What world do people live in where they hear people say kek?

 

[ScaryShark]

What world do people live in where they hear people say kek?

Apparently the 'creative industry'.

 

[Thorgal]

The real question is, when is PornHub going to issue an apology and remove all their cuckold videos? Thousands of videos of Nazi propaganda, and apparently this website gets millions of views per day!

But seriously, the design kind of resembles the letters KEK. I mean, what the fuck, this is where we're at now. Corporations have to bend over backwards explaining a nonsense issue because we're giving credence to a bunch of 12-year-olds on 4Chan.

I can't wait for 4Chan to think up the next alt-right meme, so we can start cleansing that from society too. "Is that a Pepsi you're drinking? Don't you know that symbol represents white supremacy!" Fucking hell.

pretty much .

Whats next ? are we gonna throw out the peace sign out too when they use a racist slur with it ?

or the Aids Symbol ?

where will it stop ?

 

[Lexad]

To be fair I had no idea it was racist symbolism either so I definitely believe that excuse.

I honestly would have looked at that, said cool, and approved it too. I liked the look of it, shame what is represents.

 

[Audioboxer]

Of course. Still, bear in mind that we are just random people with an internet connection, no decision-making power and no knowledge of all the facts who are posting on a discussion forum, which is why we don't have a say in Bungie's payroll. We can only react to what we can see, and for me it seemed like it was intentional. With Bungie's explanation I have learned I was wrong.

That said, I do agree that the internet provides ample opportunity to engage in hateful practices such as harassment and stalking, as demonstrated during Gamergate, and it's our responsibility to not tolerate that kind of crap. This can and should be a lesson not to react too quickly before learning the facts, indeed.

I know, but anyone debating with a bit of the "both sides" in that topic was even met with hostility. Other than the one or two trolls that topic attracted, those like myself and others weren't saying anything radical nor were we condoning white supremacy. When you bring up hate mobs in gaming, it's worth remembering because others hate, don't end up mirroring their behaviour by being hateful yourself. As I said if you were an employee at Bungie reading that topic you could cut the hate in the air with a bread knife. Hating white supremacy is one thing, a noble cause, but in this individual instance with little information known going full on hating Bungie and demanding someone gets fired was jumping the gun just a little. Even if more people were being a little 50/50 and saying fire if probable cause, but so many posts in that topic were just "fire some piece of shit right now or else I'll never buy a Bungie game again, Bungie has Nazi designer(s)". Hence why I think Bungie has gone and done further investigating and released a PR statement which goes above and beyond "sorry, we don't condone hate, not-intended and we're patching". That was their original release, but a long topic on GAF wanting someone fired and no doubt the mainstream gaming press running headlines inferring Bungie and hate, it tipped them to a further statement. Thankfully it did to put this to bed.

Right from the start they did try and explain it wasn't intentional, and even although the iconography/graphics used were similar, they were not literally 100% the same like some people tried to argue. I even got flak for trying to point that out. It wasn't like an accidental swastika where the design is actually a swastika or very close to one. This logo on the arms, chest piece and legs had just enough degrees of separation to at least entertain the concept of "accidental". As Bungie said there wasn't even a desire to mimic the kek meme back in 2015. The whole design from the start was coincidental.

Although the design wasn't emulative of the meme in question, the armor piece was eventually flagged by another team responsible for reviewing content for cultural, geographical, and other sensitive issues. Unfortunately, that review was conducted to explore whether or not we were comfortable with the connection to the original, innocuous ”kek" internet meme. The more contemporary, vile derivation that has been repurposed by hate groups was not surfaced through this process, and therefore, the armor was approved for ship.

Even on GAF people know videogames can be in development for literally years. Destiny 2 was never just going to be knocked out in 6 months. I get people speculating something was "slipped in" late in development, but mine and others arguments in that topic was to try and get those 100% sure, even to drop to 99% sure, 1% sceptical. A majority would not even budge to that.

pretty much .

Whats next ? are we gonna throw out the peace sign out too when they use a racist slur with it ?

or the Aids Symbol ?

where will it stop ?

Sure, some things in life are universal to the 7+ billion population. No, the okay hand sign and drinking milk cannot be successfully co-opted. That is ludicrous. Kekistan originally seemed to be created as a fictional meme and transformed into something the white supremacists use. The word kek itself, due to its origins, meh, you can probably make an argument for who cares if some still use it. Just say lol though... Kekistan and the flag? There is nothing good of even trying nor caring for it to be used by anyone other than the assholes.

If someone tries to say you can't post emoji symbols or be seen with a picture of milk, sure, tell them that is a bit daft. If someone tries to say lets reclaim Kekistan, nah, that's not even in the same ballpark as other things trolls/supremacists try to co-opt to wind up the left/liberals.

 

[Auctopus]

How did we miss this content in development?
Unfortunately, that review was conducted to explore whether or not we were comfortable with the connection to the original, innocuous “kek” internet meme. The more contemporary, vile derivation that has been repurposed by hate groups was not surfaced through this process, and therefore, the armor was approved for ship.

Interesting that people were suggesting this exact thing in the last thread and were shouted down by people insistent that it was due to inherent racism/white supremacy within Bungie.

 

[Lexad]

For those that have been the victim to hate it means a lot. Trivializing it is very painful to those who suffered and recognized the symbol. This to me is very ignorant in that just because it didn't affect me its ok. This one phrase is very painful to hear.

The explanation and apology bungie was good. I just don't like how some people are trivializing it is all

I don't think anyone is trivializing it, just explaining that it wasn't something they were aware of and are believe that someone from Bungie (who live next to Seattle, an incredibly progressive city) didn't actually intend to create harm in such a manner. I wasn't aware of it, and I am glad Bungie took the right actions to remove it.

 

[PrimeBeef]

Even if he made it in good faith?

Considering he made it a year before the flag, no one should be outraged. This is all a coincidence. Bungie did the right thing by removing it, but all this outrage shoumd cease since it is known now that this item precedes the flag.

 

[Ouija Luigi]

Of course. Still, bear in mind that we are just random people with an internet connection, no decision-making power and no knowledge of all the facts who are posting on a discussion forum, which is why we don't have a say in Bungie's payroll. We can only react to what we can see, and for me it seemed like it was intentional. With Bungie's explanation I have learned I was wrong.

That said, I do agree that the internet provides ample opportunity to engage in hateful practices such as harassment and stalking, as demonstrated during Gamergate, and it's our responsibility to not tolerate that kind of crap. This can and should be a lesson not to react too quickly before learning the facts, indeed.

Well said. Of course these are such hot button issues that emotions flare up easily, and that is precisely why I think it's important to stop and think before you react. These are actual people we are talking about after all, so leave the pitchforks and torches and check the facts first. Publicly claiming someone a white supremacist neonazi is a serious accusation that has actual real world repercussions. And unfortunately, if someone is found innocent after such allegations, a significant harm might have already occurred.

Edit: I would like to add that of course actual racist intentions should be called out and dealt with, there is no question about that. But in this case, the intent was questionable and ended up being nonexistent.

 

[Widge]

pretty much .

Whats next ? are we gonna throw out the peace sign out too when they use a racist slur with it ?

or the Aids Symbol ?

where will it stop ?

I mean, would you have applied this thinking to the swastika, considering it was just a religious icon?

You can't apply blanket rules to everything and you shouldn't. And there is absolutely no reason why things cannot be discussed.

It is undeniable that the iconography of kek has been co-opted far away from its original roots in this instance.