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[texhnolyze]

How can people in this thread say they've honestly never heard 'kek' to mean lol?

Even in real life, people literally say "that was top kek"

People who haven't even played Warcraft or Starwhatever

It's a god among meme phrases. Normal people say it.

I heard "that was top kek" a lot but never knew the meaning.

 

[Audioboxer]

I heard "that was top kek" a lot but never knew the meaning.

kek as known originated in WoW for the horde saying lol.

Topkek is apparently a brand of cake that ignited the interest of the internet due to kek being established as meaning lol.

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/topkek

Kek in Turkish means cake.

So the horde was saying both lol and cake, and then as the internet loves memes topkek, meaning topcake, also means toplol.

Hide your kids, the world of the internet awaits.

 

[The ๖ۜBronx]

I mean, would you have applied this thinking to the swastika, considering it was just a religious icon?

I see this raised a lot and I feel it's ignoring quite a large part of what the alt-right have exhibited recently. First Pepe, then Kek, then the 👌 hand sign. They're taking things that are extremely common, at first in the areas surrounding where the alt-right online first festered, and now more toward things of general use as they become emboldened in real life. They're appropriating them and associating them with hate in an effort to take an existing platform, co-opt it and shame people from using it. This also has the added benefit – to them – of falling back on the "Are you actually being serious? It's just a meme/saying/hand-sign" until it's notoriety is enough that it's become news-worthy and they've 'claimed' another element of society for themselves.

In the other thread we actually had people suggesting that we should stop using 👌 and that if we continued to, in the knowledge that it's become popular for the alt-right to signal 'white power', that we were directly part of the problem. To me this is nothing short of ridiculous, and plays exactly into the entire reason the alt-right are shifting from symbol to symbol so quickly in the first place. Handing them these things on a silver platter and shaming people trying to retain their original use does nothing but give them more things to rally around.

 

[JDB]

makes ya think

 

[danthefan]

Wow, everyone's taking that "2015" at face value, are they.

I am yes, why wouldn't I?

I mean, would you have applied this thinking to the swastika, considering it was just a religious icon?

It still is just a religious symbol in many parts of the world, I saw it all over the place in Thailand.

I'm not really sure it ever had much of a meaning in the West other than as a hate symbol though, I could be wrong though.

 

[Risible]

Everyone keeps focusing on the word kek, but IMO that's not the damning thing. We get it, kek has been around a long time.

The design itself is the more troubling aspect. You're telling me some designer came up with that super similar design, backwards k, lines, on a green field, that has VERY strong artistic/thematic ties to the Kekistan flag a year before the flag came into existence and it's just sheer serenidipty?

I'm not sure I buy it, especially in our current political climate.

 

[Anarion07]

makes ya think

I hope this is sarcasm?

If not, try to google "zeus fist".

 

[GlamFM]

makes ya think

Oh come on....

 

[Audioboxer]

makes ya think

Why not add SS bolts?

https://www.adl.org/education/references/hate-symbols/ss-bolts

Bungie using a lightning bolt too!

(yes I know your post is sarcasm, just thought I'd throw in the lightning bolt ties for further laughs ~ Remember Bungies armour design used 4 lines, so only using 1 lightning bolt might be a ruse)

edit: Swords as well, uh oh!

 

[JDB]

Why not add SS bolts?

https://www.adl.org/education/references/hate-symbols/ss-bolts

Bungie using a lightning bolt too!

Good catch. We gotta get to the bottom of this.

 

[danthefan]

Whoa whoa whoa there.

Is Harry Potter a secret fascist??

 

[Atomski]

makes ya think

weird I always took the square fist as a sign of the black panthers. Guess it has been used a lot though.

 

[Audioboxer]

weird I always took the square fist as a sign of the black panthers. Guess it has been used a lot though.

It has, just like lightning bolts have (and swords which I added above). That's part of the cheapjoke.gif.

Arrows and straight lines have been used a lot too!

Everyone keeps focusing on the word kek, but IMO that's not the damning thing. We get it, kek has been around a long time.

The design itself is the more troubling aspect. You're telling me some designer came up with that super similar design, backwards k, lines, on a green field, that has VERY strong artistic/thematic ties to the Kekistan flag a year before the flag came into existence and it's just sheer serenidipty?

I'm not sure I buy it, especially in our current political climate.

Unless the designer has a time machine, yes?

To quote the relevant passage again, Bungie already explained some might think it looks like kek, but kek back then wouldn't offend anyone. Unless you're for the alliance.

Although the design wasn't emulative of the meme in question, the armor piece was eventually flagged by another team responsible for reviewing content for cultural, geographical, and other sensitive issues. Unfortunately, that review was conducted to explore whether or not we were comfortable with the connection to the original, innocuous ”kek" internet meme. The more contemporary, vile derivation that has been repurposed by hate groups was not surfaced through this process, and therefore, the armor was approved for ship.

 

[Montresor]

Goddamn does it feel good to be right:



Even nailed the chevron designs frequently seen throughout the Destiny verse. But nah, had to put up with stuff like:









(God this one feel so fucking good, just because I nailed that Chevron design hunch)









My name is Dylan Sexbang, and this is my wall of shame. Also my wall of shitty quoting

I read Bungie's responses in the OP and thought to myself "Why are they going so far out of their way to defend themselves and apologize so profusely - this can't possibly be a big deal. Some symbol in the game coincidentally resembles a racist meme symbol. Okay, not a big deal. It was a coincidence. Remove the symbol and move on".

Once I saw your wall of quoted posts I guess I understood. When people react so irrationally and impetuously to something so unbelievably innocuous, Bungie is basically forced to offer the most apologetic response possible for something they otherwise would never be obligated to response to.

I can't believe so many people on GAF were calling for the artist to be fired. Fucking disgusting. Imagine being that artist and fearing for your job and wondering if you're going to be able to pay your mortgage or put food on the table next week, because some fucking zealots automatically assume you're racist when some art you drew in 2015 in the future coincidentally became co-opted by a racist group. There aren't enough words to describe how ridiculous that is.

 

[Aaron]

I can understand their missing it in review, but there is no fucking way the original artist didn't know what he/she was doing

99.9% of neogaf had no idea this was a thing. Is it really that hard to believe someone else wouldn't know it was a thing? They have a group designed to review for this kind of thing, and even they missed it. Bungie can't help it if the alt-right has been busy claiming every meme and symbol under the sun. Pretty soon they won't even be able to use certain colors.

 

[Yearsoflurking]

I'm not falling for this, until bungie admits this was intentional i will not be buying another product from them

 

[Jawmuncher]

I'm not falling for this, until bungie admits this was intentional i will not be buying another product from them

What do you want them to say? "We knew exactly what this was and put it in the game to support white supremacy?" Like even if it was intentional it was intentional on the artists level and not bungie as a whole.

The fact they took it out so quickly and apologized I think speaks pretty loudly. They easily could've ignored it or said something like "we don't see it or don't have the resources to do anything with it". Maybe at that point I could see it as intentional.

 

[Alo0oy]

Steve Bannon's financial group was very active in World of Warcraft, the meme originating from WoW is irrelevant if part of his following co-opted it.

I don't know why the meme is so important to some people, is it really worth fighting over? Especially when it represents the ugliest side of society right now?

 

[danthefan]

I'm not falling for this, until bungie admits this was intentional i will not be buying another product from them

So you refuse to believe anything other than it was intentional?

 

[FinalAres]

It was obviously not intentional.

The similarities are definitely enough to mean it needs changing, but the differences are vast enough that it clearly was an accident.

 

[The ๖ۜBronx]

You're telling me some designer came up with that super similar design, backwards k, lines, on a green field, that has VERY strong artistic/thematic ties to the Kekistan flag a year before the flag came into existence and it's just sheer serenidipty?

If a designer wanted to reference 'kek', then yes. Give any designer those letters to create some mark or symbol with and they will invariably mirror it as it's a palindrome and try the 'E' without its vertical bar. It's not that hard to comprehend considering the phrase itself comes from gaming and is mainly prevalent within gaming culture.

 

[Risible]

It has, just like lightning bolts have (and swords which I added above). That's part of the cheapjoke.gif.

Arrows and straight lines have been used a lot too!



Unless the designer has a time machine, yes?

To quote the relevant passage again, Bungie already explained some might think it looks like kek, but kek back then wouldn't offend anyone. Unless you're for the alliance.

You're doing exactly what I was talking about. I understand kek was innocous, that's not the point. I'm saying from a design standpoint it's far too similar to the Kekistan flag irrespective of the underlying word.

 

[Risible]

If a designer wanted to reference 'kek', then yes. Give any designer those letters to create some mark or symbol with and they will invariably mirror it as it's a palindrome and try the 'E' without its vertical bar. It's not that hard to comprehend considering the phrase itself comes from gaming and is mainly prevalent within gaming culture.

Perhaps. Given what's been going on in the gaming community, though, I'm far less inclined to give anyone the benefit of the doubt. It's one hell of a coincidence.

 

[Gold_Loot]

Few things I learned. The "kekistan" meme, and way too many people start their sentences with "I mean"

I mean, really!

 

[Audioboxer]

You're doing exactly what I was talking about. I understand kek was innocous, that's not the point. I'm saying from a design standpoint it's far too similar to the Kekistan flag irrespective of the underlying word.

Which came about in 2017. So Bungie has removed what was a harmless accidental association from 2015 because of the current political climate. Human beings do not have time machines. Q&A test teams do not have time machines. Bungie said as much and I'll quote it for the 3rd time

Although the design wasn't emulative of the meme in question, the armor piece was eventually flagged by another team responsible for reviewing content for cultural, geographical, and other sensitive issues. Unfortunately, that review was conducted to explore whether or not we were comfortable with the connection to the original, innocuous ”kek" internet meme. The more contemporary, vile derivation that has been repurposed by hate groups was not surfaced through this process, and therefore, the armor was approved for ship.

Up next time to petition Blizzard to remove kek from WoW if the Orcs still say it. Even if they did, which is fair enough and on them to decide its removal, you cannot blame 2004 Blizzard for kek because of a 2017 Kekistan flag. That applies to Bungie as well. They removed the armour graphic because of 2017, but it was originally conceptualised in 2015 when Kekistan did not exist.

 

[MartyStu]

Bungie artist was a time travelling white supremacist that travelled to the future to get inspiration for his design confirmed.


Good grief don't the pitchfork carriers ever just get TIRED of being so offended all the time??

I agree that after the statement, people should take a more measured approach to this.

THAT SAID: This sentence here is unbelievably silly and harmful in its implication.

 

[Sylas]

Gamedev Gaf correct me if I'm wrong but aren't armor assets one of the first things locked? I don't even know when the kekistan flag came about but it seems like the armor would've been completed before that really happened. Plus, that armor set is meant to reference under-armor to a degree and green/black/grey is often used for sportswear. Hell, Monster drinks are branded the way they are for that reason.

 

[ReplacementPelican]

How can people in this thread say they've honestly never heard 'kek' to mean lol?

Even in real life, people literally say "that was top kek"

People who haven't even played Warcraft or Starwhatever

It's a god among meme phrases. Normal people say it.

I had literally never heard it. Especially people 'in real life.'

-edit- for some clarity, I've probably seen people type it but its never impacted or been significant enough for me to remember it.

 

[MartyStu]

How can people in this thread say they've honestly never heard 'kek' to mean lol?

Even in real life, people literally say "that was top kek"

People who haven't even played Warcraft or Starwhatever

It's a god among meme phrases. Normal people say it.

Never heard it. Never heard anyone say it.

This kerfuffle is the first time I am hearing of the meme or its ties to white supremacy.

I imagine people like are being bothered less by this entire event than people familiar with its co-option before this event.

 

[KormaChameleon]

It was obviously not intentional.

The similarities are definitely enough to mean it needs changing, but the differences are vast enough that it clearly was an accident.

Of course it wasn't intentional. Just some people need to get a grip.

While I can't stand racism itself but I also can't stand it when individuals go out to look for something and make it a racial matter. I think it's just as racist as in my opinion.

 

[Grimm Fandango]

It's still unclear to me, is that armor in the default color scheme or has there been a shader-thing applied to it to make it similar?

 

[Alo0oy]

Of course it wasn't intentional. Just some people need to get a grip.

While I can't stand racism itself but I also can't stand it when individuals go out to look for something and make it a racial matter. I think it's just as racist as in my opinion.

Oh my god, someone bring out the bingo board.

 

[Hesh]

How did we miss this content in development?
Although the design wasn't emulative of the meme in question, the armor piece was eventually flagged by another team responsible for reviewing content for cultural, geographical, and other sensitive issues. Unfortunately, that review was conducted to explore whether or not we were comfortable with the connection to the original, innocuous ”kek" internet meme. The more contemporary, vile derivation that has been repurposed by hate groups was not surfaced through this process, and therefore, the armor was approved for ship.

So their Legal QA team saw this, flagged it, and it still passed review? That's pretty damning. I've seen Legal bug writeups, they're very diligent on finding the original source and explaining how it could present a problem. They wouldn't just say "kek" was how "lol" was translated for the Horde in WoW and it became a meme, they would note how the design on the armor is the exact same as the "KEK" on the Kekistan flag and would detail where the flag comes from and what it means. As such, I don't really buy this being an innocuous mistake, but rather someone thought this would be funny or be something they could show friends and be like "I got Kekistan into Destiny!" and here we are.

 

[Audioboxer]

So their Legal QA team saw this, flagged it, and it still passed review? That's pretty damning. I've seen Legal bug writeups, they're very diligent on finding the original source and explaining how it could present a problem. They wouldn't just say "kek" was how "lol" was translated for the Horde in WoW and it became a meme, they would note how the design on the armor is the exact same as the "KEK" on the Kekistan flag and would detail where the flag comes from and what it means. As such, I don't really buy this being an innocuous mistake, but rather someone thought this would be funny or be something they could show friends and be like "I got Kekistan into Destiny!" and here we are.

Did you read the whole quote? Kek in 2015 was a Wow meme. Why would any legal team actually worry about that? Blizzard do not own the legal rights to the world kek. As I pointed out earlier it literally means cake in Turkish. Lots of games will pass through Q&A with mild cultural pop references. Some unintentional, others are done or purpose for easter eggs. Bungie said this armour wasn't even done intentionally or as an easter egg, even the original creation was coincidental.

If the Kekistan flag did not exist no one would care about this. At worst 4chan would just laugh at it.

^ Life is Strange. Using kek when it meant what it did to Bungie.

 

[Harlequin]

I can think of arguments for and against this redesign so I don't really care either way. The pro arguments are quite obvious: people might think the resemblance is intentional, people might feel uncomfortable using that piece of armour for fear of others thinking they're wearing it to signal some sort of political viewpoint, changing it probably doesn't take a whole lot of effort, etc. On the other hand, this is a pretty obscure and unknown symbol/meme and by doing this it kind of feels like Bungie is giving it more legitimacy than it maybe deserves. So yeah, it's fine by me that they've changed it, it would've also been fine by me if they hadn't.

 

[Seiniyta]

Some people will never buy the explanations given to them. And it's fine to be skeptical about what corporations say. But it's also a really scary aspect of the internet, especially when it was a honest mistake. I'm happy the name of the person that created it didn't get revealed otherwise his/her life would be a living hell for a long time online. Imagine being branded a supremacist because of a coincidence. Even if the name is cleared, many people won't even look at that and just remember the name and association. That's pretty terrifying.

 

[Oare]

OMG.
SONY. AM. FASCISM!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Jacksinthe]

Good on Bungie.

I can see how this is a serious issue despite being a coincidence. I use 4 chevrons in the shape of a flower for my business logo and I'll be changing the logo this weekend. I made it in 2014 but still. Not that I want to let supremacists appropriate a fucking chevron but again, I understand the seriousness of it's use. I feel my design can be manipulated and spun in a negative way even moreso now as I've bumped the flower over in the new logo. And looking at it now, one half of the flower shows making a "K". No clue Kek was anything other than a WoW thing.

Then I did this in 2015 to show support for gay marriage: https://twitter.com/AbsintheGames/status/614599640302907392?s=15

I got shit for it from the usual anti crowd but gave no fucks. Still, this can be spun easily so I'm going to have to re-logo this weekend. I hate making logos. Again, too close for comfort and I understand how similarities can affect people so I'll just change it.

 

[jesu]

Of course it wasn't intentional. Just some people need to get a grip.

While I can't stand racism itself but I also can't stand it when individuals go out to look for something and make it a racial matter. I think it's just as racist as in my opinion.

Against which race is it racist?

 

[Brandon F]

How can people in this thread say they've honestly never heard 'kek' to mean lol?

Even in real life, people literally say "that was top kek"

People who haven't even played Warcraft or Starwhatever

It's a god among meme phrases. Normal people say it.

Glad it was apparently just a coincidence

The general public doesn't pepper their speech with internet meme phrases and I have never, ever heard a human say kek out loud

My response exactly. I'm also thankful to not surround myself with people that vocalize meme's I suppose.

 

[jaxpunk]

makes ya think

Yes, it makes me think how people manage to spin racism into everything lately. It's quite a skill some have developed.

 

[Hesh]

Did you read the whole quote? Kek in 2015 was a Wow meme. Why would any legal team actually worry about that? Blizzard do not own the legal rights to the world kek. As I pointed out earlier it literally means cake in Turkish. Lots of games will pass through Q&A with mild cultural pop references. Some unintentional, others are done or purpose for easter eggs. Bungie said this armour wasn't even done intentionally or as an easter egg, even the original creation was coincidental.

If the Kekistan flag did not exist no one would care about this. At worst 4chan would just laugh at it.

That doesn't add up, though. How did someone in 2015 copy the exact same "KEK" design from the flag if it didn't exist back then? Now I'm thinking Bungie might be flubbing the date when the original Legal QA writeup was made.

 

[Harlequin]

That doesn't add up, though. How did someone in 2015 copy the exact same "KEK" design from the flag if it didn't exist back then? Now I'm thinking Bungie might be flubbing the date when the original Legal QA writeup was made.

You're being sarcastic... right?

 

[Shifty]

Quite possibly the best, most comprehensive response to the issue that they could have given. Good job Bungie.

People are still going to give them shit about it though.

 

[keltickennedy]

I had to look online because I had no idea what it was mistakenly representing and what the fuss was about. Good to see they were quick to address it.

 

[Bartholomuse]

This whole thing has been such a wild ride, it reminds me of something...

Bungie must be so confused lol

 

[Trup1aya]

makes ya think

What if it's a black power fist?

 

[BTHR Zero X]

OMG.
SONY. AM. FASCISM!!!!!!!!!!

Ok this actually made me giggle.


But yeah I was attacked in the other thread for saying they were similarities but they were not the same, some people just want to see racism where every they can I guess.

 

[Audioboxer]

That doesn't add up, though. How did someone in 2015 copy the exact same "KEK" design from the flag if it didn't exist back then? Now I'm thinking Bungie might be flubbing the date when the original Legal QA writeup was made.

It's lines and arrows and it isn't exactly the same. What about the poster in here joking about how have Bungie ended up with a white power first, Nazi lightning bolts and swords? (sorry, I contributed to that... joke)

I feel like we'll be taking the above crazy pills soon. We have a whole company, represented by it's CEO, devs, publisher, design team, coders and social media staff who've investigated and given this answer. But no, it's some sort of white supremacy cover up. Is this the reverse of ethics in journalism? We're going to do a hunt that clearly everything is lies and conspiracy and Bungie just need to have staff fired/get harassed into admitting white supremacy guilt?

Time to ask press sneak fuck to infiltrate Bungie and get a rogue coder who will clearly show the armour design dates stamp says July 2017 and Bungie are complicit in hiding, aiding and condoning white supremacy. Biggest gaming controversy busted!

Seriously? If we don't want 4chan and the trolls to further keep laughing at us getting this one wrong, do not start spreading widespread conspiracy theories and logic that would need a time machine.

 

[Hesh]

You're being sarcastic... right?

Hmm? How so? The font of the "KEK" in the game is stylized exactly as it appears on the flag, something that didn't exist back in 2015 when Bungie says the armor piece was originally conceived and flagged for review by Legal. How did this armor piece predate the flag with the exact same "KEK" on it?