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[Hoo-doo]

Those 2 examples are particularly bad all right.

What about Overwatch?

Overwatch lootcrates deal exclusively in cosmetics as far as I know.

 

[Yoss]

we’ve also added the ability to recruit followers by using the ring of power.

I haven't finished the first game yet, so maybe I'm missing something, but are we the bad guys now?

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Overwatch lootcrates deal exclusively in cosmetics as far as I know.

Yeah. And that's fine. They're easily earnable in game, and they don't affect gameplay.

Shadow of Wars lootboxes seem to primarily deal with gameplay changing things. And that fucking sucks. You know the gameplay will be balanced around the inclusion of these boxes. And fuuuck that.

 

[Marcel]

You think you are wise, NeoGAF. Yet for all your subtleties, you have not wisdom. Do you think the eyes of the Water Tower are blind? I have seen more than you know. With your left hand you would use me as a shield against microtransactions, and with your right you would seek to ruin the time-saving experience of players who want to buy Premium Orc Captains™ to show off to their friends.

 

[NullPointer]

I haven't finished the first game yet, so maybe I'm missing something, but are we the bad guys now?

 

[Lord of Castamere]

I haven't finished the first game yet, so maybe I'm missing something, but are we the bad guys now?

No, but I think that's how this game will end, leading into Bizarro Lotr's, with randomly generated Dwarfs, Elves, and Human captains. At least, I hope.

 

[2blackcats]

Yeah. And that's fine. They're easily earnable in game, and they don't affect gameplay.

Shadow of Wars lootboxes seem to primarily deal with gameplay changing things. And that fucking sucks. You know the gameplay will be balanced around the inclusion of these boxes. And fuuuck that.

Your pessimism is totally understandable but we don't "know" anything yet.

The developers have stated the game has been balanced without consideration for the loot boxes.

I say we wait for reviews, etc before we hang em out to dry. (wait, is that a saying?)

 

[SpaceWolf]

No, but I think that's how this game will end, leading into Bizarro Lotr's, with randomly generated Dwarfs, Elves, and Human captains. At least, I hope.

Always thought exactly the same.

I could easily see the next game see us invading Lothlorien and The Shire and shit.

 

[DataBased]

As much as I am not a fan of this practice, at least they are showing plans for the money to be funneled back into development of the game. This is the traditional justification for the games as a service model (except for the fact that it is full price >_>)

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Your pessimism is totally understandable but we don't "know" anything yet.

The developers have stated the game has been balanced without consideration for the loot boxes.

I say we wait for reviews, etc before we hang em out to dry. (wait, is that a saying?)

Of course they're gonna say that. They're not going to say 'Yeah we changed gameplay balance to accommodate for the sold boxes'

But there will always be that underlying thought of 'Maybe I can't beat this part because they expect me to buy some boxes and I can't earn anymore?'

 

[Andodalf]

To everybody making MGSV comparisons, they’ve been very clear that your orcs never die in defense, and that you can only actually have yours die on offense in a ranked assault, not casual.

Also, orcs that die in any part of the game can be resurrected.

 

[danm999]

They've already stated that the game is designed/balanced around them not existing.

So hopefully it all good.

The only thing I would be worried about is the pvp element but we don't have many details about that yet. I don't care whether my opponent has spent a fortune for legendary orcs or not, the fact that they can would be the potential problem.

They straight up say in the article one of the core design philosophies they have is to prolong play for as long as possible.

Thinking that would not apply to their monetisation strategy with loot boxes is just, I dunno naive is the only word I can think of that accurately covers it.

 

[2blackcats]

Of course they're gonna say that. They're not going to say 'Yeah we changed gameplay balance to accommodate for the sold boxes'

But there will always be that underlying thought of 'Maybe I can't beat this part because they expect me to buy some boxes and I can't earn anymore?'

Well, I'm not going to call them liars until we get some hands on time.

 

[jrcbandit]

Good thing I got this on PC for cheap from GMG. I'm going to cheat and give myself unlimited funds and buy 10 billion loot boxes with in-game currency as a f-you to Monolith/WB.

 

[2blackcats]

They straight up say in the article one of the core design philosophies they have is to prolong play for as long as possible.

Thinking that would not apply to their monetisation strategy with loot boxes is just, I dunno naive is the only word I can think of that accurately covers it.

"We kept all of the loot boxes and the economy of real world money turned off in playtesting so we know we are balancing around an experience which is rewarding without any of that stuff."

This is what I was referring to from the Eurogamer article from a while back.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Well, I'm not going to call them liars until we get some hands on time.

To me it's the fact that they're pushing the loot box aspect so hard. 'LOOK AT THE ORCS YOU CAN EARN, DON'T WORRY WE'RE GONNA DO GOOD WITH THE LOOT BOX MONEY '.

 

[danm999]

"We kept all of the loot boxes and the economy of real world money turned off in playtesting so we know we are balancing around an experience which is rewarding without any of that stuff."

This is what I was referring to from the Eurogamer article from a while back.

The same article says loot boxes are implemented to save people time, but this most recent article says they want to keep you playing as long as possible.

These ideas are contradictory and are indicative of a PR attempt to spin a monetisation strategy as a benefit for the consumer.

When they tell you it won't affect balance they are telling you what you want to hear.

 

[2blackcats]

To me it's the fact that they're pushing the loot box aspect so hard. 'LOOK AT THE ORCS YOU CAN EARN, DON'T WORRY WE'RE GONNA DO GOOD WITH THE LOOT BOX MONEY '.

It does suck alright.

 

[Plague Doctor]

So they spend this time to double down on loot boxes and damage control.

Fuck this game.

Edit: Hope they are able to milk enough "whales" who are too busy to play the full game they paid $60 on to make up for the loss of sales.

 

[Szadek]

This finally explains where Saruman's Orcs came from, he bought a ton of loot boxes!
What a Wale.

What are you guys going to do when Dark Souls 4 has loot boxes? Stop gaming?

I mean everything has micro transactions now. Phones. TVs. Games. It's the way things are going.

I could even see if getting like cable bills where you don't have to purchase the whole game and can purchase just SP or MP and then a laundry list of micros

I skip more and more AAA as it is. I wouldn't mind too much if I have to go full indie and retro.

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

Loot boxes were bad enough but already talking about DLC and expansions before the game is even out. Will probably wait for the cheaper GOTY / Complete Edition now.

 

[BrassDragon]

"We kept all of the loot boxes and the economy of real world money turned off in playtesting so we know we are balancing around an experience which is rewarding without any of that stuff."

This is what I was referring to from the Eurogamer article from a while back.

It's an interesting statement though. That makes me wonder if they completed the game with just in-world drops of gear, quest rewards and Orcs they branded on the go.

A lot of the in-game rewards seem to be based around 'mirian', the currency for buying these loot boxes from the Greedy Orc Market. If you don't want to grind for mirian, you can whip out your credit card instead (which purchases 'gold', the more 'bang for your buck' loot box currency.)

So are they saying it's balanced it around not spending mirian at any point? What about the gold currency the game gives you at certain milestones (small 'taster' rewards that get you used to buying the top-tier loot boxes)? And if you ignore the mirian purchases, does the game still feel rewarding to play or do you just see your virtual piggy bank fill up as you're perpetually undergeared?

In other words, is Monolith claiming you can play through the whole game without engaging with the Greedy Orc Market at all?

 

[Curious Puppy]

They straight up say in the article one of the core design philosophies they have is to prolong play for as long as possible.

Thinking that would not apply to their monetisation strategy with loot boxes is just, I dunno naive is the only word I can think of that accurately covers it.

Designed from the ground up to manipulate customers like some F2P game, instead of just offering a god damn video game.

All of the signs as to the progression system in this game, along with the gameplay itself being designed around loot boxes.. it make Forza 7's complaints seem like small fries in comparison.

I really hope a lot of people vote with their wallet on this one.

 

[Green Yoshi]

Shadow of War would rather fit into a gambling den than a gaming console.

 

[Xplatformer]

Wasn't the original a pretty big game to begin with; did people actually ask for the sequel to be four times bigger? Is this the "today's games are so big they can't not have loot boxes" argument in action? Publishers decide to make a game of such ludicrous scope and budget that they have to rely on that loot box whale money to turn a profit?

I put in over 30 hours with the original. 120 hours of content makes me drool. I can't wait.

Always thought exactly the same.

I could easily see the next game see us invading Lothlorien and The Shire and shit.

Far Harad...I'd pee in my pants from excitement if they announced it.

 

[lastplayed]

The world has changed. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air. Much that once was is lost. For none now live who remember it. It began with the forging of lootboxes. Three were given to the elves, immortal, wisest and fairest of all beings. Seven to the Dwarf Lords, great miners and craftsmen of the mountain halls. And nine, nine lootboxes were gifted to the race of men, who above all else desired skins. For within these boxes of loot was bound the strength and will to govern each consumer.

But they were all of them deceived, for another lootbox was made. In the land of Mordor, in the fires of Mount Doom, the dark Lord Sauron forged in secret a master lootbox, to control all others and into this box, he poured his cruelty, his malice, and his will to dominate all microtransactions. One lootbox to rule them all.

 

[Lord of Castamere]

Loot boxes were bad enough but already talking about DLC and expansions before the game is even out. Will probably wait for the cheaper GOTY / Complete Edition now.

This isn't about dlc. I mean you didn't even have to click out to know that, considering the whole article is in the op.

Even then, fun fact, 6 AAA single player games releasing this month, only 2 (Evil Within 2, Mario Odyssey) don't have a season pass or dlc confirmed, so far. Though technically, Odyssey will have Ambiio support. South Park, Ass Creed Origins, Wolfenstein, and Shadow of War all have a season pass.

 

[2blackcats]

The world has changed. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air. Much that once was is lost. For none now live who remember it. It began with the forging of lootboxes. Three were given to the elves, immortal, wisest and fairest of all beings. Seven to the Dwarf Lords, great miners and craftsmen of the mountain halls. And nine, nine lootboxes were gifted to the race of men, who above all else desired skins. For within these boxes of loot was bound the strength and will to govern each consumer.

But they were all of them deceived, for another lootbox was made. In the land of Mordor, in the fires of Mount Doom, the dark Lord Sauron forged in secret a master lootbox, to control all others and into this box, he poured his cruelty, his malice, and his will to dominate all microtransactions. One lootbox to rule them all.

Ha ha. These excellent posts nearly make the loot boxes worth it.

 

[shimon]

If you truly think the game is balanced exactly the same as if there were no lootboxes at all, you must be incredibly naive.

Of course they'll try their damndest to incentivise you buying these damn things. It's going to be a goddamn money train. It's getting increasingly more pervasive, too. Look at Forza 7 or NBA2K18 for recent examples. You end up stumbling into these crates at every junction.

Exactly. If the game was not balanced towards loot boxes people would not need to buy them. So what's the point of loot boxes then?

Game must be balanced in a way where you could either spend 20h+ on getting that Legendary Orc or you could just spend couple bucks and get him in 10 minutes.

 

[NastyBook]

Was really hoping this series would follow the Dead Space 1 to Dead Space 2 track, where I get the first game late, love it to death, then be there day and date for the sequel.

Sadly, that just isn't to be.

 

[2blackcats]

It's an interesting statement though. That makes me wonder if they completed the game with just in-world drops of gear, quest rewards and Orcs they branded on the go.

A lot of the in-game rewards seem to be based around 'mirian', the currency for buying these loot boxes from the Greedy Orc Market. If you don't want to grind for mirian, you can whip out your credit card instead (which purchases 'gold', the more 'bang for your buck' loot box currency.)

So are they saying it's balanced it around not spending mirian at any point? What about the gold currency the game gives you at certain milestones (small 'taster' rewards that get you used to buying the top-tier loot boxes)? And if you ignore the mirian purchases, does the game still feel rewarding to play or do you just see your virtual piggy bank fill up as you're perpetually undergeared?

In other words, is Monolith claiming you can play through the whole game without engaging with the Greedy Orc Market at all?

I take it to mean that that it's balanced without the means to purchase gold enabled. So you still get loot crates from in game currency. Open to interpretation though.

I don't see any serious difficulty in balancing though, you can go recruit legendary orcs pretty easily by the sound of it.

I hope the new difficulty levels actually add some difficulty. The worst thing about the first game was how ridiculously easy it was once you past the first couple of hours.

 

[SpaceWolf]

Was really hoping this series would follow the Dead Space 1 to Dead Space 2 track, where I get the first game late, love it to death, then be there day and date for the sequel.

Sadly, that just isn't to be.

If this game would appear to be on any track, it would be on the Dead Space 1 to Dead Space 3 one.

 

[2blackcats]

Exactly. If the game was not balanced towards loot boxes people would not need to buy them. So what's the point of loot boxes then?

Game must be balanced in a way where you could either spend 20h+ on getting that Legendary Orc or you could just spend couple bucks and get him in 10 minutes.

I could be wrong but I think it's the xp booster that's the more valuable thing in the boxes.

 

[legend166]

I'm glad loot boxes are dominating the conversation. Now if only game critics would grow a spine and start giving lower review scores (and not removing them when pressured by the publisher) we might start to see some positive developments around gaming business models.

 

[BrassDragon]

I take it to mean that that it's balanced without the means to purchase gold enabled. So you still get loot crates from in game currency. Open to interpretation though.

I don't see any serious difficulty in balancing though, you can go recruit legendary orcs pretty easily by the sound of it.

I hope the new difficulty levels actually add some difficulty. The worst thing about the first game was how ridiculously easy it was once you past the first couple of hours.

Yeah, your interpretation is probably correct. That does mean we'll be forced to engage with the Market, the Orc rubbing his hands together and the advertisements / weekly deals / daily challenges that come with it.

Having to regularly work through a blantant online storefront as you play is far from ideal and a direct result of this loot box mechanic - if the single player game just featured mirian, they could have come up with something far more immersive when you spend it.

But let's see how impactful it is in practice. We'll know in a few days.

 

[watdaeff4]

I really want to play this game, but no way I'm dropping any money on it until we find out how intrusive the loot box economy is on SP progression

 

[Dyson Industries]

Nah man

Even id it's true it's still a boring as fuck discussion

yet here you are

amazing

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

I really want to play this game, but no way I'm dropping any money on it until we find out how intrusive the loot box economy is on SP progression

This is the only real coherent thing I've seen in this thread. Everything is is rah rah hatewagon.

 

[Moon Presence]

And I'm out. Will wait for sale with everything bundled in.

 

[hellishimp]

So far all I am seeing is a massive expansion in microtransactions which doesn't make me happy.

Since its all SP though, is it theoretically possible to unlock it all with a trainer on a PC?

 

[DarkMaigle]

I mean...just ignore this game. The first one wasn't all that good. It was just better than we thought it would be. Plenty of other things to play this month that don't have loot boxes and spider tits.

 

[carlsojo]

Always thought exactly the same.

I could easily see the next game see us invading Lothlorien and The Shire and shit.

Shadow of Middle-Earth!

Takes place after Return of the King.
Human, wizard, ent, dwarf, and hobbit captains.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

I'm glad loot boxes are dominating the conversation. Now if only game critics would grow a spine and start giving lower review scores (and not removing them when pressured by the publisher) we might start to see some positive developments around gaming business models.

The worst part is that there are games like Forza, which have disabled real money purchases until after the game comes out, so reviewers won't rate it lower.

 

[Curious Puppy]

So far all I am seeing is a massive expansion in microtransactions which doesn't make me happy.

Since its all SP though, is it theoretically possible to unlock it all with a trainer on a PC?

I wouldn't be surprised. The crack scenes have basically destroyed every DRM protection now besides UWP, and they're going to go to town on this game.

 

[hellishimp]

I wouldn't be surprised. The crack scenes have basically destroyed every DRM protection now besides UWP, and they're going to go to town on this game.

UWP is remarkably resilient. But then again, maybe the crack scene just can't even properly download the games since the download keeps restarting from scratch and they gave up on their games lol

 

[Monocle]

Is that a threat?

Sounds like one.

 

[alt27]

Meltdown of the week? Come on. He's completely correct: people on this forum get far too bent out of shape about loot boxes. It gets extremely tiresome that any thread containing a mention of loot boxes gets taken over by vocal dissenters talking about greedy devs. "Greedy devs" is quickly becoming just as annoying as "lazy devs".

Guess what, games cost a lot more to make than they used to, and they still cost $60 for us to purchase. Loot boxes are a buisiness reality if we want AAA games to remain at a reasonable price point. This isn't devs being greedy, it's games being a for-profit buisiness. That's ok.

I'm really looking forward to Shadow of War. I won't be purchasing a single loot box with real money, yet somehow, someway, I'm pretty sure I'm still gonna have a wonderful time with the game.

Pretty sure that publishers have been spending less and less on game dev dudgets over the years (according to their earning reports) so Im not sure what this "balooning" dev costs come from. Some particular companies might have that problem, but its not representative of the actual money being spent on them as a whole.

 

[spindoctor]

The worst part is that there are games like Forza, which have disabled real money purchases until after the game comes out, so reviewers won't rate it lower.

This happens far too often nowadays and I don't know why publishers get away with it. Either reviewers are being played for fools or they use it as shield of plausible deniability to continue doling out the 8s and 9s and 10s.

 

[Brad Grenz]

Designed from the ground up to manipulate customers like some F2P game, instead of just offering a god damn video game.

All of the signs as to the progression system in this game, along with the gameplay itself being designed around loot boxes.. it make Forza 7's complaints seem like small fries in comparison.

I really hope a lot of people vote with their wallet on this one.

You seem to know a lot about the progression in a game you've never played.

 

[Jamiaro]

I was initially really hopeful/excited about this game. But I need to wait for reviews and experiences on this one. Too bad, loved the first one. :/

These discussions about scummy lootbox-practices are really good to have. It is whats holding me back.