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[mortal]

People still seem to ignore the fact that he associates and has given a platform to some pretty vile people. Wether those videos were a joke or not is irrelevant to me because of that.

Damn, with that logic I guess that means every discussion panel, debate platform, interview segment, and radio show are forever irredeemable since these platforms have hosted individuals that some people in society consider "pretty vile."

 

[excelsiorlef]

It definitely was a slog.... Didn't need 20 minutes, didn't really address some of the biggest concerns... and you could tell he thinks the whole thing is a hit piece because he was flippant and looked bored, meaning he didn't actually consider or reflect on any of the criticisms folks had.


And a lot of it came down to it doesn't matter that I did this, or said that, or associate with this guy, or make SJW jokes... I am a liberal... and it was satire.

Nah man, shit doesn't work like that.

 

[TWrecks310]

Ok tell you what he makes some good point at the start mostly towards some (key some) of the imagery.... Though accusing Clinton and the mainstream left of propping up Richard Spencer by acknowledging what Pepe had become is nonsense, as was his general need to defend the meme.

His defense of he's not making fun of rappers just their fans is interesting though because all the rappers were black and when he mentions the article says he didn't do the same or white rockers he points to criticizing them on his other channel... but that's not the same channel. If he only made fun of fans of black rappers on his meme channel and not white rockers, the accusation of only focusing on rap on that meme channel is accurate.

The crux of his Sam Hyde portion is where it goes off the rails:

He basically defends it as It was a joke 1 and he focuses far too much time on the fact that the writer initialled interpreted nailing her as sexual violence (as did I). He spends most of the Sam Hyde portion letting us know that Hyde didn't joke about raping Dunham, just beating her into a pulp beyond recognition and mutilating her... He actually gets mad that the writer updated the article to remove the rape reference... But yeah

He just completely sidesteps his participation with Amazing Athiest and that anti-feminist video.. like he just goes AA isn't alt right so whatever....

He also basically whitewashes Sargon completely.. and his defense of supporting Sargon with #FreeSargon on twitter using everyone's favorite Free Speech principles, is that he said a bunch of left wing things on twitter so he can't be criticized for backing Sargon.

He admits to SJW shit but thinks none of it matters and isn't a big deal


He addresses some points but wipes a lot away under the guide of just joking .

Here's what I will say invoking alt-right specifically was a mistake, but Fantano did not defend himself from his associations with Hyde, Sargon or Amazing Athiest whatsoever, or his SJW jokes or any of that.

He basically doesn't once acknowledge that some of his "satire" is fucked up and admits he's quitting because hes not making money and doesn't want YouTube to profit off his labour or something.

So is he alt-right, probably not, and I personally never said he was. Is he an ally to social justice? No probably not, he's less alt-right and more Bill Maher...liberal but useless.

This is a good ass post

 

[Staccat0]

What? I'm talking about the reasons used before in this thread to excuse his channel.

Also, comparing me to your racist step dad? Kind of out of line. Really showing your ass here.

*shrug* I was trying to let you know.

Artists have and will continue to use racism as a tool against racists. There is a pretty strong tradition of it.

 

[Ivan 3414]

.

 

[Irnbru]

Damn, with that logic I guess that means every discussion panel, debate platform, interview segment, and radio show are forever irredeemable since these platforms have hosted individuals that some people in society consider "pretty vile."

I mean, if they are hosting them as friends or supporting them and not calling them on on their shitty or racist endeavors then yeah. They are. I wouldn't want my coin or time going to that. Sorry if being a racist makes you "pretty vile"?

 

[J.W. Stillwater]

Damn, with that logic I guess that means every discussion panel, debate platform, interview segment, and radio show are forever irredeemable since these platforms have hosted individuals that some people in society consider "pretty vile."

Do these discussion panels, debate platforms, interview segments, and radio shows typically involve the host laughing as their guests describe in graphic detail how they would like to murder a woman?

 

[TWrecks310]

Damn, with that logic I guess that means every discussion panel, debate platform, interview segment, and radio show are forever irredeemable since these platforms have hosted individuals that some people in society consider "pretty vile."

It's dumb when news networks bring people like Milo and Richard Spencer on too.

Also there's quite a difference between a relationship as friends and a professional interview.

 

[Famassu]

It was an offensive joke, but I'm not going to lie and say I haven't either laughed or made worse jokes in the past, most people I know have, and it's not the end of the world.

Nobody normal makes jokes about beating up a woman into a bloody pulp just because they are a feminist actor/writer who try to further the feminist cause in their work. What the fuck is wrong with you?

 

[excelsiorlef]

Damn, with that logic I guess that means every discussion panel, debate platform, interview segment, and radio show are forever irredeemable since these platforms have hosted individuals that some people in society consider "pretty vile."

They are when you defend them... with #FreeSargon, and Hyde was joking ,and Amazing Athiest isn't alt-right so I don't even have to acknowledge he's toxic. He didn't say shit to Sam Hyde other than are you usure you want to be on record with thi.s He didn't stop himm he didn't say that's misogynistic, he didn't confront him, he did the Bill Maher he sat there and chuckled.

And I want to point out his Sam Hyde portion of the video is where he fails the most, and it is the portion he calls the most important of the video.... Which means he knows that's the biggest issue, but his argument was basically: Hyde was joking and he didn't actually say rape.... That's his defense for what he calls the worst accusation and the most important part of the video.

 

[Skittles]

Ready to laugh my ass off at the non-apology/attack on journalist response video fantano will put out.

Lmfao, damn. I called this shit to a T. Not like it's hard though, these kind of people all behave the same way when someone calls them out on their bullshit

 

[Tomohawk]

Am i missing something, his i felt like his response video made a lot of gaf look dumb.

 

[ElectronicOldMen]

I'm genuinely pretty angry about this because it drags up a semi-legitimate, like, feeling of hurt from around when Fantano started trying to make money off the second channel with really bad 'anti-SJW' satire and was hanging around with Sargon and Sam Hyde and Thunderfoot and The Amazing Atheist. I genuinely was a fan until around that time, it really fucking sucked to have someone who I had personally credited with recontextualising how I thought about music and what it was I was looking for from music and from art generally to also be someone who thought it was good and OK to associate himself and widely agree with someone who thought that Elliot Rodger was in the right and did a bang-up job. Really pisses me off that people are still so desperately coming to his defense.

Whether the dude is or is not alt-right or a nazi or whatever, who fucking cares. He just has no fucking morals, and his actions or lack-of-actions hurt people and continue to hurt people.

 

[SyenceLabb]

You guys are taking self-righteousness to a whole new level. Not a good look. Anthony handed Fader an L in my opinion.

 

[Ozigizo]

*shrug* I was trying to let you know.

Artists have and will continue to use racism as a tool against racists. There is a pretty strong tradition of it.

I can't help but feel you've completely misconstrued my post. My post is pointed directly at him, not at the industry.

 

[Staccat0]

They are when you defend them... with #FreeSargon, and Hyde was joking an Amazing Athiest isn't alt-right so I don't even have to acknowledge he's toxic. He didn't say shit to Sam Hyde other than are you usure you want to be on record with thi.s He didn't stop himm he didn't say that's misgynistic, he didn't confront him, he did the Bill Maher he sat there and chuckled.

That was my take away as well. I’m not a fan of the dude, so for me this whole thing has been “whatever” (another edgelord racist on YouTube?) but that clip of the podcast was pretty piss poor.

Like, okay, maybe it’s awkward and you chicken out cuz you sorta suck and have no business with a podcast. Okay... but if you realized it was sexist and fucked-up and you were just chuckling awkwardly...

I dunno. I woulda either spiked the episode or put a pretty fucking hefty disclaimer at the start. Seems like the literal least he could do.

I can't help but feel you've completely misconstrued my post. My post is pointed directly at him, not at the industry.

Probably so. It felt like a perspective rule to anyone reading. I’m bad at this sometimes.

My bad, sincerely.

 

[excelsiorlef]

You guys are taking self-righteousness to a whole new level. Not a good look. Anthony handed Fader an L in my opinion.

Tell you what I demonstrated I was open minded, I gave him credit for properly addressing certain elements (some of the memes and imagery)

But tell me in your opinion how, without claiming he's a liberal and it's satire, he properly addressed Sam Hyde, Amazing Athiest, Sargon of Akkad and making shit SJW anti-feminist content.

 

[Ekai]

Obviously I agree with the video, even though he could have went after then harder/used many more examples, but none of the points he made are likely to sway anyones mind, as we're all working from different definitions of what constitutes being "alt-right" or hedging towards them.

I mean, if he really says the things others have quoted him as saying, he's said blatantly not true things. Like how the alt-right doesn't use memes, they do. They sure as fucking hell do.

Contrapoints had a good video on that and more in how to identify a fascist.

Fantano says a lot of bullshit that either points to him being alt-right or one to heavily sympathize with them and their disgusting as fuck views that they pretend to hide behind the veil of "for the lulz".

 

[Ozigizo]

Probably so. It felt like a persecutive rule to anyone reading. I’m bad at this sometimes.

My bad, sincerely.

It's cool, I should have been more specific.

 

[Alucrid]

You guys are taking self-righteousness to a whole new level. Not a good look. Anthony handed Fader an L in my opinion.

i'm not sure how much more self righteous you can get than by painting sargon of akkad as a sympathetic individual being harassed by the alt right to make yourself look better

 

[janoDX]

Am i missing something, his i felt like his response video made a lot of gaf look dumb.

Gaf will not admit it. Fantano defended himself and did it right.

 

[Staccat0]

Gaf will not admit it. Fantano defended himself and did it right.

I think most would admit there are parts of it that are pretty strong, but I dunno if he sold me on the worst parts.

“The most important part of the video” was AT BEST him giving a dipshit a platform and being too scared to shit it down.

 

[Famassu]

Gaf will not admit it. Fantano defended himself and did it right.

I haven't watched his apology but if what is described here is correct, no the fuck he didn't. You have to be ignorant & obtuse as fuck to think that way. Sounds like another non-apology apology that belittles & ignores many of the issues brought up with all the legitimate criticism.

But hey, continue caping for an alt-right/nazi enabler. He might not be a nazi himself but he sure as hell gives them visibility & doesn't call them out on their BS.

 

[excelsiorlef]

That was my take away as well. I'm not a fan of the dude, so for me this whole thing has been ”whatever" (another edgelord racist on YouTube?) but that clip of the podcast was pretty piss poor.

Like, okay, maybe it's awkward and you chicken out cuz you sorta suck and have no business with a podcast. Okay... but if you realized it was sexist and fucked-up and you were just chuckling awkwardly...

I dunno. I woulda either spiked the episode or put a pretty fucking hefty disclaimer at the start. Seems like the literal least he could do.

He did apparently say the views expressed in this podcast from Hyde are not my own.. but he demonstrated nothing in the video that he ever took Hyde to task directly for horrific misogyny and he almost flat out defends him in this video here saying he was joking and focusing on letting everyone know that he didn't say he'd rape Dunham, as if just removing that makes it fine.


I am going to say this, I think trying to just say he's alt right isn't worth the effort, because if he is or not doesn't really matter. Bill Maher isn't alt right but he certainly has no problem doing PR for them... but call him alt right and he can point to XYZ and make it all about that. That's what Fantano actually does here, he doesn't really focus on the criticisms in specific and reflect on the, he just claims he's not alt-right and so the criticism don't matter.... It's why I go back to again what I dub the Bill Maher Principle, you can be a liberal that's fine, but you're a useless one. You wanna be a liberal but whitewash alt-right, fine you can be liberal but you're fucking useless, and don't you ever consider yourself an ally to minorities.

 

[janoDX]

I haven't watched his apology

I don't need to read the rest. Go watch it.

 

[benicillin]

I am going to say this, I think trying to just say he's alt right isn't worth the effort, because if he is or not doesn't really matter. Bill Maher isn't alt right but he certainly has no problem doing PR for them... but call him alt right and he can point to XYZ and make it all about that. That's why Fantano actually does here, he doesn't really focus on the cricisms in specific and reflect on the,, he just claims he's not alt-right and so the criticism don't matter.... It's why I go back to again what I dub the Bill Maher Principle, you can be a liberal that's fine, but you're a useless one. You wanna be a liberal but whitewash alt-right, fine you can be liberal but you're fucking useless, and don't you ever consider yourself an ally to minorities.

I mean the past week alone has shown everybody that there are tons of people out there who hide behind being liberals while also engaging in email chains with people like Milo, so I don't really blame anyone for being skeptical when some dude gets caught with his hand in the altright cookie jar and then says it's all satire.

 

[kingocfs]

It’s not an apology, which is the problem.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I don't need to read the rest. Go watch it.

Same question put forward to you... why do you think he properly addressed Hyde, Sargon, Amazing Athiest, anti-feminist/SJW jokes?

 

[Staccat0]

He did apparently say the views expressed in this podcast from Hyde are not my own.. but he demonstrated nothing in the video that he ever took Hyde to task directly for horrific misogyny and he almost flat out defends him in this video here saying he was joking and focusing on letting everyone know that he didn't say he'd rape Dunham, as if just removing that makes it fine.


I am going to say this, I think trying to just say he's alt right isn't worth the effort, because if he is or not doesn't really matter. Bill Maher isn't alt right but he certainly has no problem doing PR for them... but call him alt right and he can point to XYZ and make it all about that. That's why Fantano actually does here, he doesn't really focus on the cricisms in specific and reflect on the,, he just claims he's not alt-right and so the criticism don't matter.... It's why I go back to again what I dub the Bill Maher Principle, you can be a liberal that's fine, but you're a useless one. You wanna be a liberal but whitewash alt-right, fine you can be liberal but you're fucking useless, and don't you ever consider yourself an ally to minorities.

Agreed.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I mean the past week alone has shown everybody that there are tons of people out there who hide behind being liberals while also engaging in email chains with people like Milo, so I don't really blame anyone for being skeptical when some dude gets caught with his hand in the altright cookie jar and then says it's all satire.

Oh I agree... but I just think ultimately it opens the door for him to not even address Amazing Athiest and what he did with him by saing AA isn't alt right so moving on... nevermind that Amazing Athiest is a horrific misogynist and anti-feminist.

 

[Ivan 3414]

Forgot to mention Sargon and Hyde, again.

Whoops.

That has nothing to do with my point in the post you quoted, but I'll share my opinion.

He gave them a platform on his podcast, which is a bad move, and he didn't denounce them on his podcast either. It's your prerogative if you want to condemn and boycott him based on that; I personally think those were poor decisions that should rightfully be called out.

However, it's has been clear, through his music reviews and his twitter, that he's a centrist at "worst", and pretty liberal at "best". That has been clear for years, and the Fader article was piss poor in making a solid connection between him and the alt-right. He's might have developed a fanbase on /mu/ but he's not an alt-right conduit.

 

[Rootbeer]

Watched the Fantano response. Dude is basically 99% liberal and NeoGAF is trying to kill him because he is not 100% liberal.

This site is becoming extreme.

When otherwise strong allies are put through stringent ideological purity tests and don't come out with a complete pass they are trash to some people. It's a problem a lot more prevalent on the left than on the right. It's eating us, and I hope people learn this sooner rather than later.

 

[ElectronicOldMen]

When otherwise strong allies are put through stringent ideological purity tests and don't come out with a complete pass they are trash to some people. It's a problem a lot more prevalent on the left than on the right. It's eating us, and I hope people learn this sooner rather than later.

If ideological purity tests = not being ok with people that think elliot rodger was great, sign me up for all the ideological purity tests you got. if fantano is what we're holding up as an 'otherwise strong ally' we're fucking doomed.

 

[Loudninja]

When otherwise strong allies are put through stringent ideological purity tests and don't come out with a complete pass they are trash to some people. It's a problem a lot more prevalent on the left than on the right. It's eating us, and I hope people learn this sooner rather than later.

I am so tired of these so call strong allies that continue to be anything but.

 

[TWrecks310]

When otherwise strong allies are put through stringent ideological purity tests and don't come out with a complete pass they are trash to some people. It's a problem a lot more prevalent on the left than on the right. It's eating us, and I hope people learn this sooner rather than later.

Read the fucking thread man

 

[nynt9]

That makes no sense. How can you be genuinely liberal and genuinely, knowingly a white supremacist? Those principals fundamentally contradict each other.

Both ideologies can be hosts to questionable human behavior, I'll give you that.

I'd say it's pretty easy. You know White supremacy isn't just pointy hoods and burning crosses, right? Many white feminists are often criticized for excusing black women. White liberals gentrify neighborhoods and take them away from POC. Many white liberals have a blind spot when it comes to POC issues. This still contributes to white supremacy.

When otherwise strong allies are put through stringent ideological purity tests and don't come out with a complete pass they are trash to some people. It's a problem a lot more prevalent on the left than on the right. It's eating us, and I hope people learn this sooner rather than later.

"strong allies" who associate with Sargon and Sam Hyde and make racist ass memes?

 

[Alucrid]

When otherwise strong allies are put through stringent ideological purity tests and don't come out with a complete pass they are trash to some people. It's a problem a lot more prevalent on the left than on the right. It's eating us, and I hope people learn this sooner rather than later.

you should drop into the buzzfeed thread with this take

 

[SyenceLabb]

Tell you what I demonstrated I was open minded, I gave him credit for properly addressing certain elements (some of the memes and imagery)

But tell me in your opinion how, without claiming he's a liberal and it's satire, he properly addressed Sam Hyde, Amazing Athiest, Sargon of Akkad and making shit SJW anti-feminist content.

First of all, The amazing atheist has been added to the alt-right bucket? Isn't this the bisexual guy best known for sticking a banana up his butt? What did he do to earn his admission? I'm not a fan of guilt by association/extension; at least if it's your sole source of an argument. And as far as Sargon goes, why do we need to issue a fatwa to every one whose ever made contact with him or gave him a platform? Joe Rogan gave him a platform; over 2 hours on a very popular podcast; does this make Joe an alt-right club member? I'm seeing more and more public figures that are center left on the spectrum that get the alt-right label. Something ain't right here, breh.

 

[mortal]

I mean, if they are hosting them as friends or supporting them and not calling them on on their shitty or racist endeavors then yeah. They are. I wouldn't want my coin or time going to that. Sorry if being a racist makes you "pretty vile"?

When did vile exclusively mean racist? People are considered vile for a variety of things.

Do these discussion panels, debate platforms, interview segments, and radio shows typically involve the host laughing as their guests describe in graphic detail how they would like to murder a woman?

He said in the video that the laughter was a nervous, awkward laugh, not a "you're sooo hilarious" laugh. If you rather not believe him, then that's your choice I guess.

It's dumb when news networks bring people like Milo and Richard Spencer on too.

Also there's quite a difference between a relationship as friends and a professional interview.

Why wouldn't they invite on? Even if their political views are unfavorable they still have the right to voice them like any other person, at least in the United States.

And ideally, the best way to contest unfavorable or ignorant ideology is by engaging it and refuting it with good and sound ideology.

So that's your brand of judgment? Guilty by association? If that's the case, that makes everyone who has a racist family member, also a racist due to the nature of their relationship.

To you, this wasn't a "professional" interview because Fanatno had already known Sam Hyde beforehand? It is an interview, plain and simple. He wasn't advocating or cosigning him when he made his remarks, he simply interviewed him.

 

[ElectronicOldMen]

Why wouldn't they invite on? Even if their political views are unfavorable they still have the right to voice them like any other person, at least in the United States.

And ideally, the best way to contest unfavorable or ignorant ideology is by engaging it and refuting it with good and sound ideology.

Yall what fucking planet have you been on for the last, like, 3 years where you still think this is how any of this works?

 

[excelsiorlef]

First of all, The amazing atheist has been added to the alt-right bucket? Isn't this the bisexual guy best known for sticking a banana up his butt? What did he do to earn his admission? I'm not a fan of guilt by association/extension; at least if it's your sole source of an argument. And as far as Sargon goes, why do we need to issue a fatwa to every one whose ever made contact with him or gave him a platform? Joe Rogan gave him a platform; over 2 hours on a very popular podcast; does this make Joe an alt-right club member? I'm seeing more and more public figures that are center left on the spectrum that get the alt-right label. Something ain't right here, breh.

Weird...

Almost like I have said he's not alt-right and that doesn't matter to my issues...

You've done exactly what he did, wave it away by just saying not alt-right.

Almost like I said the thing shouldn't have called him alt-right because it's largely not relevant to the criticisms and it gives him an easy out to just not actually have to take on the criticisms.

Not sure why you're using extremely exploitative language such as fatwa to describe my desire to see him address critcism of associating and white washing with known bigots.

Amazing Athiest is a well known and virulent misogynist, who had made a shit ton of anti-feminist vidoes that shit on women to which Fantano's defense of doing such a video with him was... not alt right moving on....

 

[faridmon]

Gaf will not admit it. Fantano defended himself and did it right.

Alt-rights are good at defending themselves.

Not that I am saying he is one, but one has to be obtuse or just plain agreeable if that video convinced said person

He even used whataboutism for fucking defence

 

[Ozigizo]

Stanning for amazing atheist. I think I'm done with this thread.

 

[Doctor Ironic]

So what’s Fantano’s defense for repeatedly being buddy-buddy with Sargon of Akkad?

 

[Gutek]

I stand by it. Why would you hang with and defend Akkad if you are a decent person?

 

[TWrecks310]

Why wouldn't they invite on? Even if their political views are unfavorable they still have the right to voice them like any other person, at least in the United States.

And ideally, the best way to contest unfavorable or ignorant ideology is by engaging it and refuting it with good and sound ideology.

So that's your brand of judgment? Guilty by association? If that's the case, that makes everyone who has a racist family member, also a racist due to the nature of their relationship.

To you, this wasn't a "professional" interview because Fanatno had already known Sam Hyde beforehand? It is an interview, plain and simple. He wasn't advocating or cosigning him when he made his remarks, he simply interviewed him.

By inviting Nazis and alt-right people on to your show to debate them, you are giving credence to their values. You insinuate that their values are worth debating, rather than stomping that shit into the ground. I'm not going to debate with a bunch of white men that think they are genetically superior to the rest of the world, it's just dumb.

There's also the issue of elevating these views for people to see in the first place, because people are dumb and will latch onto shitty ideas even if you explain how dumb they are.

There's a difference between having a racist family member and inviting racists onto your show or befriending them. Hell I know a lot of people that have straight up blacklisted friends and family from their lives that have come out as racist in the past year, including myself.

I'm referring to the Sargon podcast about professionalism, not the Sam Hyde one.

 

[excelsiorlef]

So what’s Fantano’s defense for repeatedly being buddy-buddy with Sargon of Akkad?

Free Speach

 

[Sorcerer Supreme]

good on fantano to show how trash the article is

 

[nynt9]

good on fantano to show how trash the article is

Too bad he's trash himself too

 

[Famassu]

When did vile exclusively mean racist? People are considered vile for a variety of things.




He said in the video that the laughter was a nervous, awkward laugh, not a "you're sooo hilarious" laugh. If you rather not believe him, then that's your choice I guess.


Why wouldn't they invite on? Even if their political views are unfavorable they still have the right to voice them like any other person, at least in the United States.

And ideally, the best way to contest unfavorable or ignorant ideology is by engaging it and refuting it with good and sound ideology.

So that's your brand of judgment? Guilty by association? If that's the case, that makes everyone who has a racist family member, also a racist due to the nature of their relationship.

To you, this wasn't a "professional" interview because Fanatno had already known Sam Hyde beforehand? It is an interview, plain and simple. He wasn't advocating or cosigning him when he made his remarks, he simply interviewed him.

Shit like "Gays aren't right in their heads" and "let's publicly out transgender people and shame them" and "I fantasize about violence towards prominent feminist figures" are not "political opinions" that warrant "let's hear them out" type discourse. These people are not discussing the ins and outs of universal healthcare or whether some tax should be 5 or 15%. They are lynching minorities, setting their zealots against innocent people just for speaking out on being treated horribly & attacking ideologies that only try to improve the stature & treatment of certain demographics.