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The Office: Golden Ticket, Gossip, and Scott's Tots

Teletraan1

Teletraan1

Banned
I thought that these episodes were great. I always felt that the point of the character is that he is a selfish asshole and you should be cringing at what he is saying or doing.
 
O

Ogodei

Member
I feel like the awfulness of Scott's Tots is mitigated by what Erin tells him on the drive back afterwards, that he did inspire those kids and make sure they were on track to graduate, and that there were a number of options those kids had to help them get through school. So he still made some good happen.

It doesn't justify what he did, but it's the kind of bittersweet sort of hopefulness you often get from a Greg Daniels show (like a lot of resolutions in King of the Hill where bad things happen but there's often a silver lining).
 
C

Ceres

Banned
On our last rewatch Meredith's wedding episode was the only one we had to skip.

Edit: I mean Phyllis's wedding 🤦
 
E

excelsiorlef

Member
siddx said:
Despite their attempts at softening him, I never saw Michael as anything but the villain of the show. An example of every corrupt, idiotic, incompetent, back stabbing, poisonous, delusional sack of shit that manages to float up to a position he doesn't belong in through chance, connection, or kissing the right ass. He is repulsive and I found myself genuinely angry quite often watching his complete buffoonery.
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Actually I think the one thing he didn't do was float into that position, he was their best salesman and they promoted him... problem is he couldn't manage.


U2NUMB said:
This is so true.. many moments where they flash his real talent and you are reminded exactly why he was promoted. Very good point. The more I watch this show the more I fall in love with it and I find it brilliant often.

They also use Creed the exact right amount... and he is perfect.
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The best thing about Creed... he's laying a fictional version of himself... the actor Creed Bratton was in the band The Grass Roots (incredible band) and that carries over into the show.... his backstory in the show is that he used to be a part of The Grass Roots and burned out.... Shits brilliant.
 
P

parrotbeak

Member
excelsiorlef said:
Actually I think the one thing he didn't do was float into that position, he was their best salesman and they promoted him... problem is he couldn't manage.
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Ya I saw Michael as an example of promotion until incompetence. I also think many of us have worked for bosses like him. What drew me to the show was working for a similar boss when the Office premiered, at least in that he was incompetent at management, had gotten there because of skills he no longer used as manager, and screwed up constantly because he so desperately wanted people to adore him.
 
T

TarpitCarnivore

Member
pigeon said:
The idea that anybody would like the non-Michael seasons of the show more is terrifying to me.

They literally replaced him with identical but less funny versions of himself.
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Andy coming on the show is the start of the slow decline, especially when he became boss and the whole Erin thing. That coupled with Jim & Pam becoming a family just really made the show rough to get through.

However, we did get Robert California
 
Lamel

Lamel

Banned
You know what's better than tuition? Intuition.

TarpitCarnivore said:
Two of the best episodes in the entire series precisely because of how awkward they are. They're Michael turned up to 11 and absolutely no way of saving it.
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Seriously. Dinner party fucking kills.
excelsiorlef said:
The thing that makes Micheal Scott's character work so well even though he's an awful manager is that throughout the series they will remind from time to time that the dude is a top notch salesman, one of the best... which is probably why he got promoted... and that's the problem, he's a great salesman but a horrible leader. This is reflected a lot in the real world, look at Wayne Gretzky, great player, terrible coach. That's what makes Scott so engaging, he's a horrible boss but you understand why he got the job.
Click to expand...
Yeah it's crazy, but he's a savant at sales. The client episode showed that beautifully when he crushes the sale at Chilis.

The Kree said:
2-4 are damn near flawless.
Click to expand...
Master class comedy, and with some of the best touching moments in all of TV.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
excelsiorlef said:
The thing that makes Micheal Scott's character work so well even though he's an awful manager is that throughout the series they will remind from time to time that the dude is a top notch salesman, one of the best... which is probably why he got promoted... and that's the problem, he's a great salesman but a horrible leader. This is reflected a lot in the real world, look at Wayne Gretzky, great player, terrible coach. That's what makes Scott so engaging, he's a horrible boss but you understand why he got the job.
Click to expand...

The best parts of the Office were the parts where they remembered to show that the people in the company are actually all quite competent in their own particular way.

One of my favorite Office episodes is Traveling Salesmen in the third season, for exactly this reason. It turns out that the personality foibles of Dwight, Phyllis, Stanley, etc., are actually the flip side of their well-honed strategies for actually doing their job and selling a lot of paper. It's one of the only times we actually get to see a lot of people in the show display their ability to succeed.

Similarly, this is why the Michael Scott Paper Company is by far the best storyline the show ever did. It's founded on a real and irreconcilable conflict (there's no way they can let Michael date the HR officer after what happened when he dated his boss, but at the same time you can understand Michael's anguish about it), it shakes up the status quo, a lot of characters get to grow (Pam's desire for more is nice here after she quit art school at the beginning of the season, but unfortunately they'll take it away again because the show hates Pam), and we finally, for the first and last time in the show, get to really see that Michael Scott is so good at selling paper you could easily imagine wanting to promote him to manage a bunch of other salesmen.
 
S

Syder

Member
Permanently A said:
I don't consider cringing myself out of existence a good experience

Stuff like Golden Ticket and Prison Mike is way more up my alley
Click to expand...
Come on, it's not that bad, and kind of the point of the show.

If you struggle with episodes like this I'm not sure if you'd handle the UK version.
 
E

excelsiorlef

Member
pigeon said:
The best parts of the Office were the parts where they remembered to show that the people in the company are actually all quite competent in their own particular way.

One of my favorite Office episodes is Traveling Salesmen in the third season, for exactly this reason. It turns out that the personality foibles of Dwight, Phyllis, Stanley, etc., are actually the flip side of their well-honed strategies for actually doing their job and selling a lot of paper. It's one of the only times we actually get to see a lot of people in the show display their ability to succeed.

Similarly, this is why the Michael Scott Paper Company is by far the best storyline the show ever did. It's founded on a real and irreconcilable conflict (there's no way they can let Michael date the HR officer after what happened when he dated his boss, but at the same time you can understand Michael's anguish about it), it shakes up the status quo, a lot of characters get to grow (Pam's desire for more is nice here after she quit art school at the beginning of the season, but unfortunately they'll take it away again because the show hates Pam), and we finally, for the first and last time in the show, get to really see that Michael Scott is so good at selling paper you could easily imagine wanting to promote him to manage a bunch of other salesmen.
Click to expand...

Totally agree, and that's what made The Office special... allowing them to have real competency rather than just being over the top characters to mock and laugh at. It grounded them.
 
P

PeakPointMatrix

Member
Ogodei said:
I feel like the awfulness of Scott's Tots is mitigated by what Erin tells him on the drive back afterwards, that he did inspire those kids and make sure they were on track to graduate, and that there were a number of options those kids had to help them get through school. So he still made some good happen.

It doesn't justify what he did, but it's the kind of bittersweet sort of hopefulness you often get from a Greg Daniels show (like a lot of resolutions in King of the Hill where bad things happen but there's often a silver lining).
Click to expand...
This is where I land with it. It's actually a really positive outcome.

TarpitCarnivore said:
I lose it every damn time Jan puts on the CD. Jan just absolutely slays that entire episode
Click to expand...
It's possibly some of the best comedy in a half hour format in existence.
 
F

fuzzylogic

Member
I rewatched The Office this year, and I skipped Scott's Tots. That episode makes me want to shrivel up and die. I was endlessly wringing my hands out of discomfort during most of the episode the first time I saw it. I think I may have seen it a second time at some point, but I always skip it, and it's the only episode I skip.

Something I'd forgotten until it popped in to my head recently is how unpleasant watching The Office was at first. I had completely forgotten what it felt like, but I had a flashback to it this year. It was difficult to watch The Office in general, when the show was new to me. Micheal's behavior and attitude were like nothing I'd ever experienced in a TV show before and it was deeply awkward and mildly revolting to watch; I wanted to punch Micheal and kept repeating, "stop, stop, stop, oh my god, stop, stop, stop" in my head.

I don't feel that way at all anymore, I'm completely inoculated against it and only feel very fleeting puffs of awkward emotional responses to the show now. The more gauche episodes still get to me a little, but it's amazing the difference between now and back then. Getting used to it, knowing about the characters' better sides, transferring the softened Michael Scott from his final season to the previous episodes etc. contributed to that. Scott's Tots gives me a taste of how the show in general used to feel to me. I didn't like The Office the first few times I watched it, it repelled me. It's now possibly my favorite show of all time.
 
T

ThLunarian

Member
TarpitCarnivore said:
Andy coming on the show is the start of the slow decline, especially when he became boss and the whole Erin thing. That coupled with Jim & Pam becoming a family just really made the show rough to get through.

However, we did get Robert California
Click to expand...

Robert California is a psychopath and a terrible character.

Every single time he appeared on screen I wished that Michael Scott would swoop in and destroy him.

Because you know that, despite all his considerable flaws, Michael Scott would have absolutely zero tolerance for Robert California and would fight to the death against him in the name of his people.
 
S

Syder

Member
pigeon said:
The best parts of the Office were the parts where they remembered to show that the people in the company are actually all quite competent in their own particular way.

One of my favorite Office episodes is Traveling Salesmen in the third season, for exactly this reason. It turns out that the personality foibles of Dwight, Phyllis, Stanley, etc., are actually the flip side of their well-honed strategies for actually doing their job and selling a lot of paper. It's one of the only times we actually get to see a lot of people in the show display their ability to succeed.
Click to expand...
Also, the episode where Jan and Michael take a client out to dinner and Michael keeps taking the conversation topic off of business; Jan perceives this to be part of Michael's juvenile behaviour rather than a sales technique but is later pleasantly surprised when the client openly offers his business.



...and then they hook up.
 
Pagusas

Pagusas

Elden Member
fuzzylogic said:
I rewatched The Office this year, and I skipped Scott's Tots. That episode makes me want to shrivel up and die. I was endlessly wringing my hands out of discomfort during most of the episode the first time I saw it. I think I may have seen it a second time at some point, but I always skip it, and it's the only episode I skip.

Something I'd forgotten until it popped in to my head recently is how unpleasant watching The Office was at first. I had completely forgotten what it felt like, but I had a flashback to it this year. It was difficult to watch The Office in general, when the show was new to me. Micheal's behavior and attitude were like nothing I'd ever experienced in a TV show before and it was deeply awkward and mildly revolting to watch; I wanted to punch Micheal and kept repeating, "stop, stop, stop, oh my god, stop, stop, stop" in my head.

I don't feel that way at all anymore, I'm completely inoculated against it and only feel very fleeting puffs of awkward emotional responses to the show now. The more gauche episodes still get to me a little, but it's amazing the difference between now and back then. Getting used to it, knowing about the characters' better sides, transferring the softened Michael Scott from his final season to the previous episodes etc. contributed to that. Scott's Tots gives me a taste of how the show in general used to feel to me. I didn't like The Office the first few times I watched it, it repelled me. It's now possibly my favorite show of all time.
Click to expand...

It repelled you yet you watched it multiple times over?
 
F

fuzzylogic

Member
Pagusas said:
It repelled you yet you watched it multiple times over?
Click to expand...

I did not mean I watched through the entire show's run multiple times before I liked it. I meant when it was on TV, I'd catch a few minutes or an episode here and there. It repelled me at first, but it grew on me, and then I liked it, and then I regularly watched it and caught up on old seasons, then over the years there were repeat viewings of some or all the seasons, and at some point along the way I became desensitized to Michael's awkwardness and sometimes awful behavior.
 
B

BladeoftheImmortal

Member
Got back into this after seeing the thread. I never made it past seas on 4 before.

I'm up to season 7 now. I really don't like what they did with Andy and Erin. They were good together and they just broke them up for no reason.

I do like that Darryl was added to the office because he's great. Also. How was Michael never fired????? I'd be fired in a damn minute if I ever did any of that shit.
 
R

Raylan Targaryen

Member
Gossip episode was always the hardest for me to watch. With something like Scott’s Tots at least he had good intentions, Gossip was just being a dick. Then even after Jim and Pam said their rumor was the true one, he still wouldn’t accept that and tried to get everyone to know Stan was having an affair.
 
U

Umbooki

Member
Now that I'm almost through Season 6 for the first time, I have to say that Angela's affair with Dwight might've been the most fucked situation thus far.

Andy is bustin his ass trying to set up a dream wedding for his fiance, but she's off in the warehouse sexing Dwight. To make things even worse, he was the last one to find out about it. If anyone else in the workplace went through that sort of thing, the entire office would've been in flames. Everyone was saved by the anger management classes and Andy's idea of being a gentleman/honorable man.
 
I

Iceman

Member
Dice// said:
Dinner Party I tend to skip; it's just kinda ugly to watch. Scott's Tots at least sticks to awkward.
Click to expand...

"That was a $200 dollar TV you just killed! Good luck paying me back with you zero dollars salary and benefits, babe!"

All the plasma TV-related stuff in Dinner Party kills me.

Scott's Tots on the other hand is too real. First time we see Michael's selfishly idiotic ambitions affect a bunch of innocent bystanders outside the office - people who (1) aren't paid to interact with him and (2) don't make the daily decision to stay in relationship with him despite seeing/experiencing his aggressive stupidity - who are children to boot, and children who are impressed upon us to already be operating at a disadvantage... children who we slow realize have become the victims of what is effectively a long con by our lovable moron, Michael. Add to the facts that Michael has known about - and has dreaded - this day coming for years and has just suppressed it's inevitability (thereby preventing anyone else from intervening, or cutting his and their losses) AND that this behavior/action seems completely plausible for Michael and this episode becomes the perfect storm of reprehensible.
 
MisterR

MisterR

Member
excelsiorlef said:
The thing that makes Micheal Scott's character work so well even though he's an awful manager is that throughout the series they will remind from time to time that the dude is a top notch salesman, one of the best... which is probably why he got promoted... and that's the problem, he's a great salesman but a horrible leader. This is reflected a lot in the real world, look at Wayne Gretzky, great player, terrible coach. That's what makes Scott so engaging, he's a horrible boss but you understand why he got the job.
Click to expand...

Yep, I love this part. They make it clear several times that he's a fantastic salesman. It's the Peter Principle in full effect.
 
Dice//

Dice//

Banned
Iceman said:
"That was a $200 dollar TV you just killed! Good luck paying me back with you zero dollars salary and benefits, babe!"

All the plasma TV-related stuff in Dinner Party kills me.

Scott's Tots on the other hand is too real. First time we see Michael's selfishly idiotic ambitions affect a bunch of innocent bystanders outside the office - people who (1) aren't paid to interact with him and (2) don't make the daily decision to stay in relationship with him despite seeing/experiencing his aggressive stupidity - who are children to boot, and children who are impressed upon us to already be operating at a disadvantage... children who we slow realize have become the victims of what is effectively a long con by our lovable moron, Michael. Add to the facts that Michael has known about - and has dreaded - this day coming for years and has just suppressed it's inevitability (thereby preventing anyone else from intervening, or cutting his and their losses) AND that this behavior/action seems completely plausible for Michael and this episode becomes the perfect storm of reprehensible.
Click to expand...

To each their own, but growing up in a house with marital dissatisfaction makes the dinner party 'ugly' for me. x)

Scott's Tots is awful and definitely one his worst. But it was weirdly one of those cases where I would have thought that situation was too good to be true to believe in the first place for a branch manager of a mid-size paper company. He shouldn't have made that promise, but at any point in the many years he should have 'updated' the kids he couldn't keep such a grand promise and I'm really surprised EVERYONE thought he was completely true on his word. The episode does have that silver lining that the kids at least all graduated (and they got those laptop batteries!!!!)..... ;( *sadwink
But yeah, as much as I like the episode, the believability sorta shatters it for me.
 
V

VanWinkle

Member
Office seasons 1-3 are my favorite comedy television ever. In them, Michael is immature and ignorant. But he's not an outright bad guy. It is shown many times that he is just immature and ignorant and desperately wants to be loved, but he's not a bad person. Examples include Health Care, Halloween, and Take Your Daughter to Work Day.

Season 4 I can enjoy a lot except for the late episodes, but I definitely think it was a turning point for the show into something less realistic and more cringy. In early Office, cringy was still really funny. Whether it's the situation, or the reactions, or something. There was a tinge of innocence to the cringe. But in later seasons, they forgot all about that and just made unfunny and mean cringe, like in Gossip and Scott's Tots (one of the worst episodes of The Office ever, IMO, along with Murder and The Surplus). The show turned into something unrealistic, unfunny, and caricature-based, and it is one of the saddest things. At least seasons 4-7 had some good and great episodes sprinkled throughout. Seasons 8 and 9 were truly irredeemable.
 
H

HAWDOKEN

Member
Reverend Funk said:
scotts tots made me an athiest
Click to expand...

This was legit funny. Kudos!

I liked the episode but I didn't love it like most of the others. The only character on the show that I can say I ever hated was Robert California. Terrible character and not funny at all. I agree with the poster that said Andy and Erin's relationship was the worst, because it was. I think one thing that hurt the Michael Scott -less seasons bad was how they kept rehashing gags that worked with Michael, but not with Andy as manager. I'm also in the camp that loves the dinner party episode. I still laugh whenever I watch it like it's my first time seeing it.

I would be really interested if they brought the show back, but had the old cast in management positions or recurring clients to a whole new cast. Maybe they could recycle the cast every five seasons or so by "changing" offices.
 
W

War Peaceman

You're a big guy.
VanWinkle said:
Office seasons 1-3 are my favorite comedy television ever. In them, Michael is immature and ignorant. But he's not an outright bad guy. It is shown many times that he is just immature and ignorant and desperately wants to be loved, but he's not a bad person. Examples include Health Care, Halloween, and Take Your Daughter to Work Day.
.
Click to expand...

I won't argue with you about the quality of the later seasons, but Michael became nicer as a person throughout. Or at least the rough edges are rounded out. He's a complete arsehole from the start. I think it is the second episode where he racially abuses Kelly.
 
K

Karu

Member
Prison Mike is prop Top 3 scenes. The second he starts screaming at Phillis, I loose it...

Dinner Party > Scott's Tots

The TV scene alone is unforgettable.
 
V

VanWinkle

Member
War Peaceman said:
I won't argue with you about the quality of the later seasons, but Michael became nicer as a person throughout. Or at least the rough edges are rounded out. He's a complete arsehole from the start. I think it is the second episode where he racially abuses Kelly.
Click to expand...

He became "nicer" but it was thrown off by the dumb retroactive respect of a lot of the office that he clearly never deserved (the second Dundies episode where they sing him that stupid song at the end, when he asked whatshername to marry him, all of the office contributing to his Threat Level Midnight movie, etc.). So those moments were COMPLETELY unearned to me and his added niceness just felt more fake to me as a result. In addition, the moments of cringe became worse and worse, so that may have contributed to my increasingly negative opinion of him as the show went on.

Regarding the racially abusing Kelly thing, Michael in early seasons had a very innocent form of ignorance. It doesn't excuse his behavior, but any time he got called out on it, he felt bad and didn't do that again. Like, I think he genuinely didn't realize he did something wrong/bad.
 
H

hampig

Member
I love Scott's Tots, the dinner episode, and even the last season.

I don't think any of these episodes betray Michaels character. He's a generally good natured guy who is unable to handle consequences and makes bad decisions, often because he puts fun or image before being genuine or good.
 
I

I H8 Memes

Member
Beginning to end Dinner Party is hilarious. Definitely my favorite episode.

You took me by the hand
And made me a man
That one night
You made everything alriiight
 
B

BoogieWoogie

Banned
The most cringeworthy scene for me, and I don't see it mentioned much, is when Michael tries to kiss the bar owner Donna, even trying it as she is leaving the office in front of everyone.
 
T

Timeaisis

Member
I think they fall in line what the writers established Michael to be since the very beginning: well meaning, but desperate to be liked by everyone.
 
O

OnPoint

Member
Dinner Party is amazing y'all are trippin

Scott's Tots is just Michael at his worst. But then I didn't really like the show much by that point. So I just chalked it up to poor writing in a show that went on too long.
 
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