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[Pai Pai Master]

Your wife doesn't know GAF, but this woman did, and apparently so did her friends, friends she knew were connected to gaf. Was this girl inept? A private Facebook post is an oxymoron. A private Facebook message to friends is still seen by hundreds of "friends" she has.

You're right, this woman and the millions of other women who took part in the #metoo campaign should have just stayed quiet. She must be "inept" for opening up about her experiences.

You people just now coming out of the woodwork to defend sexual assault are just pure disgusting filth.

 

[Neoweee]

Thanks. If that's true, what a weird thing to do, erasing your history.


It's been 3 hours. Comments about EL get banned way faster.

This thread seems to be completely without moderation... for now. Whoever is left is putting out the fires of the new-thread creation spam, and sifting through the main sticky thread to nuke dissenters. I'd be banned if it was just comments being about EL.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Oh please, she had sex with him afterwards, dude can't be that horrible if she was so upset she decides to have sex anyways. People do dumb shit, including evilore. What he did was absolutely stupid and creepy but from what I've read he apologized and left her alone. He didn't rape her or hold her against her will. Its dumb, he messed up (big time).

Let's be honest here though.. alot of this is just mob mentality... This guy didn't do anything to any of you and you're all acting like he killed your dog.

If she thought he should burn for what he did... She wouldn't have fucked him at another date.. I dunno if you understand how humans usually work, but if you can forgive someone to the point of being emotionally and physically intimate soon after... Maybe it's blown out of proportion

Then again.. I'm a nurse who worked with people who have actually been raped, hell my own wife was raped and even she thinks this is a bunch of Bullock's when I told her. (I'm not saying it's ok to be creepy or sexually harass/assault women or men by any means, I'm only saying this sounds more like a stupid mistake than a real calculated sexual predator)

This doesn't excuse evilore as I said what he did was still creepy as hell. And I'm sure she felt terrified she COULD become a rape victim... Which simply making someone feel this way is horrible in itself. Again though... She had sex with this horrible sexual predator afterwards... (I can't forgive the revenge porn though since I've been a threatened vitim of that by an ex wife). I guess I'm the type of hopes there is good in everyone and hopefully he learned his lesson.

I agree.

 

[Alienous]

Oh please, she had sex with him afterwards, dude can't be that horrible if she was so upset she decides to have sex anyways. People do dumb shit, including evilore. What he did was absolutely stupid and creepy but from what I've read he apologized and left her alone. He didn't rape her or hold her against her will. Its dumb, he messed up (big time).

Let's be honest here though.. alot of this is just mob mentality... This guy didn't do anything to any of you and you're all acting like he killed your dog.

If she thought he should burn for what he did... She wouldn't have fucked him at another date.. I dunno if you understand how humans usually work, but if you can forgive someone to the point of being emotionally and physically intimate soon after... Maybe it's blown out of proportion

Then again.. I'm a nurse who worked with people who have actually been raped, hell my own wife was raped and even she thinks this is a bunch of Bullock's when I told her. (I'm not saying it's ok to be creepy or sexually harass/assault women or men by any means, I'm only saying this sounds more like a stupid mistake than a real calculated sexual predator)

This doesn't excuse evilore as I said what he did was still creepy as hell. And I'm sure she felt terrified she COULD become a rape victim... Which simply making someone feel this way is horrible in itself. Again though... She had sex with this horrible sexual predator afterwards... (I can't forgive the revenge porn though since I've been a threatened vitim of that by an ex wife). I guess I'm the type of hopes there is good in everyone and hopefully he learned his lesson.

You could apply that logic to a lot of things, not least abusive relationships. There are people who get physically assaulted by their partners and still stay, and remain physically intimate, with them. It doesn't mean that, looking back later in life, they wouldn't categorise the abuse as among the worst things they've experienced, or that they wouldn't question the actions they took after that.

And "I'm only saying this sounds more like a stupid mistake than a real calculated sexual predator". That might be a fair assessment, but it doesn't negate the impact. I'm sure a lot of unappreciated dick pics are stupid mistakes, but that doesn't absolve an individual of the consequences or labelling they receive as a result of sending one.

This is based on the accusers side of the story, which Evilore contests. There isn't much of a counter-description of the events to go on.

 

[Syder]

If she thought he should burn for what he did... She wouldn't have fucked him at another date.. I dunno if you understand how humans usually work, but if you can forgive someone to the point of being emotionally and physically intimate soon after... Maybe it's blown out of proportion

lol you know nothing about sexual assault.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

She never stated that she was traumatized by the incident. She was simply recounting an experience she had with someone she trusted where she felt her agency as a woman and friend was violated. Which was what #metoo was all about, that yes there are horrible abusers out there but women have to deal with all sorts of other forms of harassment and sexism in their daily lives. She trusted someone to treat her like a friend and human being and instead she was treated as a sexual object when she was at her most vulnerable. She was taken advantage of.

The fact that they had consensual sex at a later date means absolutely fucking nothing regarding the experience where he violated her privacy and agency and made an assumption of consent while she was drunk. It can be acknowledged by both as a huge creepy mistake and they can move on from there, they are both adults. The issue is the pattern of behavior from past sexual misconduct and his response to the allegations which was clearly dishonest, sexist, biphobic and demeaning to people suffering from mental illness.

 

[Emperor_Uriel]

Ultimate lesson seems to be that excusing sexual assault and condemning people before they're proven guilty are both shitty things to do.

GAF's hyper vigilant, zero-tolerance attitude was a mistake. Situations like these require a level-headed approach. If you truly care about solving the epidemic of abuse, crucifying people willy-nilly can only hurt the cause.

 

[wazoo]

The fact that they had consensual sex at a later date means absolutely fucking nothing regarding the experience where he violated her privacy and agency and made an assumption of consent while she was drunk. It can be acknowledged by both as a huge creepy mistake and they can move on from there, they are both adults. The issue is the pattern of behavior from past sexual misconduct and his response to the allegations which was clearly dishonest, sexist, biphobic and demeaning to people suffering from mental illness.

The fact she needs to talk about it later on, now in fact, means that either she did not move along, or she is very naive (or worse) about the impact such revelation can have in the current time.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

The fact she needs to talk about it later on, now in fact, means that either she did not move along, or she is very naive (or worse) about the impact such revelation can have in the current time.

Are all the men and women who posted #metoo naive? When exactly are we supposed to stop talking about our experiences with sexual harassment/abuse?

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Her having been in a relationship with him changes things massively, no matter how hard people try to ignore this fact. It changes the question of motives, it makes you question the veracity of her account.

And let's be clear here - from what we know he performed a non-physical creepy act on her while heavily drunk, and that's according to her only as he flatly denies it. Hardly a reason for him to be burned at the stake, is it?

What they both don't deny is the important point that they were in a sexual relationship at one point. This is key.

 

[TissueBox]

GAF's hyper vigilant, zero-tolerance attitude was a mistake. Situations like these require a level-headed approach. If you truly care about solving the epidemic of abuse, crucifying people willy-nilly can only hurt the cause.

Maybe so, but this also came at the intersection of a lot of factors, like the current social climate, the existence of Tyler's previous conduct and moderation history, and the sudden way everything spiraled out of control and how roughly the internal dialogue was handled.

At the end of the day, this was probably inevitable. Ghosts of the past will return with the present as a weapon.

 

[Neoweee]

Ultimate lesson seems to be that excusing sexual assault and condemning people before they're proven guilty are both shitty things to do.

GAF's hyper vigilant, zero-tolerance attitude was a mistake. Situations like these require a level-headed approach. If you truly care about solving the epidemic of abuse, crucifying people willy-nilly can only hurt the cause.

My take: this wouldn't have taken down the forum if one or multiple things had happened previously...

1) He didn't burn the mod team hard with BS during the Amirox scandal.

2) He was more timely with his response.

3) His response to the mod team wasn't batshit insane.

4) He didn't already have a trail of shitty behavior towards women, including ass-gate or the revenge porn incident.

The hair trigger, pitchforks-first attitude of GAF was an accelerant, but not a cause and not an enabler. It probably helped things happen faster than they would have otherwise, though.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

One was sharing an experience on Facebook like millions of other men and women. And yes it got blown up beyond her intent when someone screencapped it and shared it with the wider internet.

One has a history of sexual misconduct and truth-dodging and half-denied the encounter and blamed it on mental illness and bisexuality.

Why is only her account up to such scrutiny?

If he owned up to it like an adult no one would be this pissed. If the allegations were not fully true and he responded to them in a reasonable manner, people would not be this pissed.

Instead he did what he always does when confronted with this kinda shit. He dodged and deflected and overreacted by burning his community and peers that trusted him.

 

[MeatGrinder]

The fact she needs to talk about it later on, now in fact, means that either she did not move along, or she is very naive (or worse) about the impact such revelation can have in the current time.

Or that she felt obliged to tell a story due to #metoo floating around everywhere.

 

[Dude Abides]

Her having been in a relationship with him changes things massively, no matter how hard people try to ignore this fact. It changes the question of motives, it makes you question the veracity of her account.

And let's be clear here - from what we know he performed a non-physical creepy act on her while heavily drunk, and that's according to her only as he flatly denies it. Hardly a reason for him to be burned at the stake, is it?

What they both don't deny is the important point that they were in a sexual relationship at one point. This is key.

"Her telling the truth that she did have sex with him later means she's probably lying."

 

[Tonedeff]

Her having been in a relationship with him changes things massively, no matter how hard people try to ignore this fact. It changes the question of motives, it makes you question the veracity of her account.

And let's be clear here - from what we know he performed a non-physical creepy act on her while heavily drunk, and that's according to her only as he flatly denies it. Hardly a reason for him to be burned at the stake, is it?

What they both don't deny is the important point that they were in a sexual relationship at one point. This is key.

So you would be of the opinion, hypothetically speaking, that later sex negates earlier rape?

 

[wazoo]

Are all the men and women who posted #metoo naive? When exactly are we supposed to stop talking about our experiences with sexual harassment/abuse?

I have plenty of empathy for the women that suffered and have to talk to move along. I just do not have enough information to situate THIS story with respect to that very important campaign.

 

[LordRaptor]

She never stated that she was traumatized by the incident.

Whatever actually happened between them, it clearly did traumatise her.

 

[FlutterPuffs]

Man, looks like this place is in total discord.

 

[Galang]

I was actually completely willing to hear his statement before I said anything, but the fact that he completely closed down the forums to cover his ass made that irrelevant. Everything after was just worse. From his actual statement to the closing down of off-topic ... He handled this in pretty much the worst way possible. No sympathy :/

 

[SuperDowns]

Whatever actually happened between them, it clearly did traumatise her.

It was definitely impactful enough to include in me too. This is their normal, that most males are privileged enough to not to have to deal with. And, adding insult to injury, can’t and won’t empathize with. It’s pathetic.

 

[adversarial]

One was sharing an experience on Facebook like millions of other men and women. And yes it got blown up beyond her intent when someone screencapped it and shared it with the wider internet.

doubtful

 

[Pai Pai Master]

doubtful

And if it was her intent? Should women just stay silent and not name their abusers if they choose to?

 

[krov87]

I was actually completely willing to hear his statement before I said anything, but the fact that he completely closed down the forums to cover his ass made that irrelevant. Everything after was just worse. From his actual statement to the closing down of off-topic ... He handled this in pretty much the worst way possible. No sympathy :/

He did not close the forums to cover his ass.
He closed the forums because they were out of control.
Im not denying that there were better options.

 

[rudger]

I was actually completely willing to hear his statement before I said anything, but the fact that he completely closed down the forums to cover his ass made that irrelevant. Everything after was just worse. From his actual statement to the closing down of off-topic ... He handled this in pretty much the worst way possible. No sympathy :/

Not that it really changes anything about his actions but off topic is back up

 

[Royce McCutcheon]

And if it was her intent? Should women just stay silent and not name their abusers if they choose to?

They should 100% name their accuser, this would have gone much better if the initial announcement came from her mouth and not "private"

 

[Pai Pai Master]

They should 100% name their accuser, this would have gone much better if the initial announcement came from her mouth and not "private"

No one should be telling people how they are supposed to open up about abuse. Theres no wrong way to do it. When I posted my #metoo I limited it to certain friends because I still don't want my family to know about my abuse. If she was posting with the intent of it reaching a limited audience then it's not her fault if someone else screencapped it and it went viral from there.

 

[Dude Abides]

They should 100% name their accuser, this would have gone much better if the initial announcement came from her mouth and not "private"

It wouldn't have mattered one bit.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

So you would be of the opinion, hypothetically speaking, that later sex negates earlier rape?

No, never did I insinuate what he did was right, and what you're doing is the problem here -escalating the discourse from creepy behaviour to serious and despicable acts like rape. Don't you think you are going over the top?

Do you not see the absurdity and irrationality of such a reaction when discussing the private lives of two former lovers, with one person's words against the others, taking into consideration this context and the actual act itself?

 

[Seyob]

They should 100% name their accuser, this would have gone much better if the initial announcement came from her mouth and not "private"

I dunno about that... opening the door to a defamation suit doesn't sound that appealing to me...

 

[samn]

No, never did I insinuate what he did was right, and what you're doing is the problem here -escalating the discourse from creepy behaviour to serious and despicable acts like rape. Don't you think you are going over the top?

Do you not see the absurdity and irrationality of such a reaction when discussing the private lives of two former lovers, with one person's words against the others, taking into consideration this context and the actual act itself?

you're bloviating over an analogy and completely missing the point

 

[3rdman]

You could apply that logic to a lot of things, not least abusive relationships. There are people who get physically assaulted by their partners and still stay, and remain physically intimate, with them. It doesn't mean that, looking back later in life, they wouldn't categorise the abuse as among the worst things they've experienced, or that they wouldn't question the actions they took after that.

And "I'm only saying this sounds more like a stupid mistake than a real calculated sexual predator". That might be a fair assessment, but it doesn't negate the impact. I'm sure a lot of unappreciated dick pics are stupid mistakes, but that doesn't absolve an individual of the consequences or labelling they receive as a result of sending one.

This is based on the accusers side of the story, which Evilore contests. There isn't much of a counter-description of the events to go on.

This is part of the problem that I've seen here...people are pushing the discussion beyond what actually DID happen. Again, what he did was kind of creepy but even though they were both drunk and in a rough state, nothing happened. He didn't escalate and she later STILL took him to bed.

Sometimes people are weird and make weird choices...it sounds like they both dealt with it at the time, things got weird and then things ended. Clearly she felt "violated" but he also clearly never laid a hand on her without permission.

By her own words, she didn't want this to go public and likely because she knew exactly how this would escalate...hell I, with absolutely no horse in this race, am terrified to point out any faults she may have had in all this because I too knows where that will lead to here. Just my thoughts...

 

[Bill R Boggess]

His own words attempting to justify his behavior regarding the “ass grabbing” incident are enough to demonstrate he’s got some serious issues with women and boundaries in general. His blather about how people – and women in particular – should expect physical contact, especially in social situations, was in particular a very vulgar and specious stream of logic.

I never make rash judgements but in cases like this, it almost always comes down to he said/she said and so it then becomes a matter of credibility. Tyler’s credibility is currently very shaky, especially given past allegations and incidents coupled with his fumbling and shameful behavior these past few days.

And yes, purging all political and social conversations/topics after advertising and promoting your site as a bastion of equality and a safe haven for minority voices is shameful and suggests that his progressivism was largely predicated on promoting his site rather than his actual, personal moral convictions.

I’ve been coming to this place for years but I only recently joined and needless to say, I’m sad to see this forum reduced to smoldering rubble within a few days. I haven’t yet decided if I’m staying but I fully respect and understand those who have opted to leave as well as those who are staying and hope to forge something anew out of this place.

What I’m really interested in however is the evidence Tyler claims he has that refutes his accuser’s claims. His comments suggest he has a legion of witnesses and evidence to prove his innocence and I’m genuinely curious to see how much of that comes to fruition.

 

[TheLaughingStock]

Maybe so, but this also came at the intersection of a lot of factors, like the current social climate, the existence of Tyler's previous conduct and moderation history, and the sudden way everything spiraled out of control and how roughly the internal dialogue was handled.

At the end of the day, this was probably inevitable. Ghosts of the past will return with the present as a weapon.

Excellent post.

 

[Bill R Boggess]

Stripping naked and going behind a woman who is clearly sick and vulnerable isn’t merely “creepy”, it’s predatory.

True, he didn’t act beyond the initial impulse but the fact that he felt empowered to do so without any form of provocation by her is, in and of itself, problematic.

 

[Klocker]

Stripping naked and going behind a woman who is clearly sick and vulnerable isn't merely ”creepy", it's predatory.

True, he didn't act beyond the initial impulse but the fact that he felt empowered to do so without any form of provocation by her is, in and of itself, problematic.

Why do people keep focusing on saying she was sick, and vulnerable.

She admitted she was drunk and then puked. (she was just explaining why she got n the shower in the first place)

Yea so maybe shower would sober her up, it's not like she was passed out and he the flu. .'drinking point of puking and then saying, yea that's better let me shower and sober up a bit is very common.

 

[Bill R Boggess]

Why do people keep focusing on saying she was sick, and vulnerable.

She admitted she was drunk and then puked. (she was just explaining why she got n the shower in the first place)

Yea so maybe shower would sober her up, it's not like she was passed out and he the flu. .'drinking point of puking and then saying, yea that's better let me shower and sober up a bit is very common.

Bit of a hair split, yes?

Being drunk and vomiting is being "sick".

And clearly, when that drunk, you are vulnerable.

Also, showering doesn't sober you up. Only time does that.

 

[Klocker]

Bit of a hair split, yes?

Being drunk and vomiting is being "sick".

And clearly, when that drunk, you are vulnerable.

Yes but let's just drop the "sick". I keep seeing it phrased iike she was in bed sick. her body rejected the alcohol briefly. They both had been drinking, was a choice on her part t be there and drink.

He did not touch her, he made a

Spoiler

stupid

move on her. SHE rebuffed, he got out and went away.

People are blowing the way out of proportion

 

[Bill R Boggess]

Yes but let's just drop the "sick". I keep seeing it phrased iike she was in bed sick. her body rejected the alcohol briefly. They both had been drinking, was a choice on her part t be there and drink.

He did not touch her, he made a

Spoiler

stupid

move on her. SHE rebuffed, he got out and went away.

People are blowing the way out of proportion

If that is indeed what he did, I don't think people are blowing it out of proportion in the least.

There's something very, very dangerous about the presumption that women exist largely to offer men sexual release and I personally have a serious problem with anyone who thinks that stripping down naked and coming up behind a woman - without her express invite or consent - is in any way acceptable.

She did nothing to invite the advance, which means he just assumed her naked form was a de facto invite.

And that is precisely the type of mentality we need to purge in this culture.

 

[Alienous]

This is part of the problem that I've seen here...people are pushing the discussion beyond what actually DID happen. Again, what he did was kind of creepy but even though they were both drunk and in a rough state, nothing happened. He didn't escalate and she later STILL took him to bed.

Sometimes people are weird and make weird choices...it sounds like they both dealt with it at the time, things got weird and then things ended. Clearly she felt "violated" but he also clearly never laid a hand on her without permission.

By her own words, she didn't want this to go public and likely because she knew exactly how this would escalate...hell I, with absolutely no horse in this race, am terrified to point out any faults she may have had in all this because I too knows where that will lead to here. Just my thoughts...

May I suggest that you read my post again - I wasn't implying that the accusations constituted physical assault, just giving a counter-example to the presumption of "Well if they were physically intimate afterwards it couldn't have been that bad". The extreme example was to illustrate that even in more severe circumstances that order of events can occur, and it doesn't inherently negate impact of what occurred before.

 

[justsomeguy]

Yeah poor mulimillionaire revenge porn spreading Evilore.

What's this about?

 

[Hermii]

I honestly dont care how it played out, even in the best case scenario his complete lack of regret or taking any sort of responsibility is what seals it.

 

[Fercho]

The allegations against EL in this case seem more malicious in nature by the other person than a sincere attempt of coming out and contribute with the #metoo movement, at least for me.

And as uncomfortable as it is, we need to have this kind of conversation too. Because in this world women can be abusive and malicious too, provoking a lot of consequences with their words and actions.

 

[samn]

The allegations against EL in this case seem more malicious in nature by the other person than a sincere attempt of coming out and contribute with the #metoo movement, at least for me.

And as uncomfortable as it is, we need to have this kind of conversation too. Because in this world women can be abusive and malicious too, provoking a lot of consequences with their words and actions.

yes, I mean gosh, they can even sink a celebrity's hopes of running for President!

 

[perfectchaos007]

The allegations against EL in this case seem more malicious in nature by the other person than a sincere attempt of coming out and contribute with the #metoo movement, at least for me.

And as uncomfortable as it is, we need to have this kind of conversation too. Because in this world women can be abusive and malicious too, provoking a lot of consequences with their words and actions.

She wasn't planning on releasing the name on Facebook until one of her friends said something like "Take the power back, expose him!" Then she said "Google Evilore" and the rest is history. It honestly didn't seem like she had intention of ousting him, and she has said as much in her statement to the press. I don't think she was being "malicious in nature" nor did she have a master plan of calling out Evilore.

 

[Bill R Boggess]

The allegations against EL in this case seem more malicious in nature by the other person than a sincere attempt of coming out and contribute with the #metoo movement, at least for me.

And as uncomfortable as it is, we need to have this kind of conversation too. Because in this world women can be abusive and malicious too, provoking a lot of consequences with their words and actions.

Funny, because we've been having the "crazy woman looking to smear the man" conversation for decades.

Also, had she wanted to out him and smear him maliciously, she could have just as easily done so in a much more public fashion.

 

[knicks]

The allegations against EL in this case seem more malicious in nature by the other person than a sincere attempt of coming out and contribute with the #metoo movement, at least for me.

And as uncomfortable as it is, we need to have this kind of conversation too. Because in this world women can be abusive and malicious too, provoking a lot of consequences with their words and actions.

Agreed, if what I've heard is the only thing out there.

 

[Ferrio]

Agreed, if what I've heard is the only thing out there.

Perhaps what I heard wasn't the full story, but if it was, I am really confused.

So this person was taking a shower and he went in there (they were drunk, still not an excuse), but she said no, he walked out and that was it? And his attitude from that point on during that trip wasn't the most terrific, but is this seriously the whole story? Holy shit, that's kind of insulting to the other people posting their #metoo stories, because that right there is nothing. I know people who posted and were actually raped and sexually assaulted. I don't see this as either.

Maybe I am missing part of the story.

It's more than just these allegations. It's past allegations, as well as his handling of the situation. The way it was handled was shortsighted, arrogant, and a disregard for the community that actually lines his pocket. I'm not going to outline all the boneheaded decisions again, but I'll link what I've said before http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=252767659&highlight=#post252767659 .

This is also without mentioning the amirox stuff or past accusations. It all adds up, and I just can't in good faith support this forum anymore and neither can others. He's handling the forum like he did 14 years ago when he was still young, I was hoping he had matured a bit in his handling of these situations.

 

[Alienous]

The allegations against EL in this case seem more malicious in nature by the other person than a sincere attempt of coming out and contribute with the #metoo movement, at least for me.

And as uncomfortable as it is, we need to have this kind of conversation too. Because in this world women can be abusive and malicious too, provoking a lot of consequences with their words and actions.

I don't think the allegations being malicious are as important as whether or not they're truthful, and that isn't the same discussion. If you decide to tell the truth out of some malicious motive it isn't nearly as problematic as lying. So I don't think the motivation matters much, unless you're implying it could have driven her to lie.

 

[brad-t]

Agreed, if what I've heard is the only thing out there.

Perhaps what I heard wasn't the full story, but if it was, I am really confused.

So this person was taking a shower and he went in there naked (they were drunk, still not an excuse), but she said no, he walked out and that was it? And his attitude from that point on during that trip wasn't the most terrific, but is this seriously the whole story? Holy shit, that's kind of insulting to the other people posting their #metoo stories, because that right there is nothing. I know people who posted and were actually raped and sexually assaulted. I don't see this as either.

Maybe I am missing part of the story.

This is comically transparent concern-trolling, and not only just because you're inside of a thread dedicated to an article that explains this story in gruesome detail.