Dude Abides
Banned
This deviant slattern, waiting two years to issue her malicious slander. Is there no end to this distaff deviousness?
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Waypoint: Inside the Sexual Misconduct Allegations Rocking NeoGAF's Last 48 Hours
- Thread starter Dineren
- Start date
I don't think she is laying, i do think she shared the story under the #metoo light as a misguided attemp to contribute and talk ill of somebody (an ex lover no less) privately ( which by itself its extremely shitty) and she tells his nickname provoking this shitstorm.
And for the shower story, while extremely cringy, is not sexual assault or molestation.
The Amir0x stuff is so disturbing. That is just awful.
I just really hate how EL has handled this situation. Just in terms of how he speaks about her, if nothing else. Rather than owning up to the fact that she, at the very least, experienced their interactions differently than he recalls, he attacks her mental stability and basically suggests "she's out to get him" without there being a particularly compelling reason to believe that is the case. Not to mention all of the heavy-handed tactics to quash discussion of these issues.
That added with evidence of prior actions suggesting something more akin to a pattern of predatory behavior with regard to women is disconcerting.
I'm just so disappointed in all of this.
That added with evidence of prior actions suggesting something more akin to a pattern of predatory behavior with regard to women is disconcerting.
I'm just so disappointed in all of this.
MonkeyKing
Member
I think they should follow their conscience. If that means naming and shaming, so be it.
But...own up to it.
Anecdotal, but I shared the gist of the story with a couple of coworkers, people I regularly have discussions of social issues with. I was surprised at their conclusion that Leupp probably did act maliciously by naming Malka. She has no obligation whatsoever to protect him, but she didn't have to put his name out there either.
It's possible that she truly didn't consider the consequences of naming Malka ( and again, she was not obligated to consider those consequences first). It's naïve to the point of skepticism, but possible.
It's also possible that she had a pretty good idea of what would happen by calling him out. Looking at the results, it was a glorious bit of payback. His little community has been fractured and potentially shattered beyond repair. If she indeed wanted to injure him, then mission accomplished.
NONE of this excuses Malka's actions. Don't take this as an attempt to minimize his responsibility. It's just not out of the question to believe that she has acted with intent and malice ( and I honestly would be fine with that). Just own it. If you stand there with a pack of matches, talking about "Gee I didn't mean to start this fire that happened to burn down the house of a motherfucker I don't like" then a little skepticism is warranted.
maybe you should read more #metoo stories. there aren't only rape and assault stories.
and him accepting the "No" doesn't change the initial situation.
If there are rape and assault allegations than I have nothing else to say. 100% unacceptable. Jail worthy. All I heard was the shower story.
AllIsOneIsNone
Banned
I haven't said much about this, and I don't really plan to....with that said, the extreme and absolute reactions that I've seen tell me one thing: I hope a lot of people here never get selected for jury duty.
Dude Abides
Banned
What's extremely shitty about telling your friends about a bad experience you had with your ex?
Did you read the article in the OP? Reducing the whole story to just this one detail is an oversimplification. EL's history of sexually aggressiveness and reactionary attitude, combined with his justifications for his harassment and the impact he's allowed it to have on Gaf are just as much part of the outrage as the harassment itself.
Also, someone bringing their naked body into the shower with your naked body, without consent and indeed without saying anything at all, with the obvious intent of engaging in sexual activity definitely qualifies as sexual harassment. It doesn't matter whether it was an embarrassing mistake or misjudgement. I'm very wary of anyone who wants to make this a conversation of the semantics of harassment or misconduct vs. "assault."
I meant you should read more #metoo stories.
there are a lot more like this one.
and again, yes, she said "no" and he left, doesn't change the fact, he went into the shower with her.
still an uncomfortable situation for her, that clearly affected her in some way when it did happen.
The problem I've had thus far in gauging the veracity of the accusation is that an alternative description of events hasn't been provided.
On the one hand there's the statement of "An allegation of sexual misconduct has been made against me by an ex. It's not true, the individual making the accusation isn't credible, the story doesn't reconcile logically with the facts, and there's plenty of evidence and witnesses to corroborate that", and on the other the incident is described as "totally harmonious and consensual."
It's hard to tell where the accusation is said to diverge from reality. The mutual truths between both sides of the story are also hard to determine.
On the one hand there's the statement of "An allegation of sexual misconduct has been made against me by an ex. It's not true, the individual making the accusation isn't credible, the story doesn't reconcile logically with the facts, and there's plenty of evidence and witnesses to corroborate that", and on the other the incident is described as "totally harmonious and consensual."
It's hard to tell where the accusation is said to diverge from reality. The mutual truths between both sides of the story are also hard to determine.
Exactly my point, a bad experience with an ex. But it is reasonable to paint the same experience as sexual assault?
Many have cited prior history as being a big deal in this case, but perhaps it's worth looking inwards to see why you feel comfortable deciding what is sexual assault for others. Maybe there's a reason why this actually blew up? It's not really up to us to decide. Subjectivity is actually a big part of what constitutes sexual assault. That's what makes those cases so hard, and that's what makes it even harder to see EviLore calling this girl out as being a bi psychopath. It's not the kind of discretion a situation like this warrants.
EDIT: Going in for a kiss is also extremely different form invading someone's privacy, and exposing themselves while the other party is already exposed and in an extremely vulnerable state. Anyone's felt vulnerable in the shower, even if it's broad daylight and we're at our own home. There's a lot of noise, and it's easy to feel that someone could sneak in. I couldn't imagine the feeling of someone deciding they can see me naked, and show me themselves naked, and at the same time do that at a time when I'm pretty vulnerable in the shower. Imagine being drunk and throwing up on top of that.
Also, legally, it's never a mitigating fact that you're drunk when doing something you shouldn't be doing.
It's the thousands of people that have reacted to this that have categorized this. If I disagreed with everyone else, I'd ask myself why that was. What you're saying trivializes things women across the world experience every day. The entire point of #MeToo is to lower the threshold for speaking up. I don't get why you would fight that.
The Amir0x thing absolutely floored me. I'm more surprised people weren't more upset about that than this story to be honest. It seems like a good chunk of the users also KNEW about it which makes all the sermonizing and demonizing even stranger.
Bill R Boggess
Member
Somebody leaning in for a kiss is a bit different than somebody stripping naked and getting into a shower with a woman who is drunk and throwing up, especially when there was no reason at the time for him to expect that she was looking for any type of physical interaction.
Also, let's dispense with the "Drunk Defense". People who are assholes are generally magnified accordingly by booze. It doesn't make them drastically different human beings.
Dude Abides
Banned
What's exactly your point, that it's not shitty to tell your friends about it? Because that's the opposite of what you said.
It's not sexual assault but she didn't say it was. People on the internet calling it that are incorrect but internet does what internet do.
Why does it make it strange to you?
People have had enough it it. They've voted with their feet, or they've stayed a while and spoken their mind.
EL tried to shut down/delete all conversation about this and the Amir0x shit before the "maintenance". Most users didn't know the half of it.
Bill R Boggess
Member
Yeah, I've been coming here for years and never knew about it until this scandal broke.
Relationships constitute the most fertile ground for mental and physical abuse and often go unreported
Believe me I do not disagree with the premise of your thought in any way
I am saying that this is an overreaction to a less than acceptable action on his part. This is somehow being magnified to hold up as the standard of anti-woman behavior.
we were not there, this is not like Weinstein where there are scores of women corroborating multiple ACTUAL sexual bargaining, pressure, assault, attacks, harassment etc.
this is being upheld as a line of unacceptability because it is personal to US as a group but it in no way reflects the general and repeated abuse of woman for mens release that is way more prevalent and physical, every day in other sectors.
This sounds like a personal moment that went badly. he did not impose himself on her physically, it sounds as if he completely was oblivious to the signs and reading social cues . She admits that later she slept with him (had sex) so it was not as traumatic an event as some are playing it out here to be. It sounds more like regret on her part for putting herself in that situation while having a boyfriend and we have no idea what conversation had happened between them leading to that point. He obviously misread the situation but to paint him as a predator when she clearly admits that he backed away and did not lay a hand on her shows that he is not the monster many here are painting him as.
I am not defending him nor the behaviors toward women that are abhorrent. I think he did something stupid but some of the comments I have read the past few days read more like knee jerk overreaction and have been unfair and disgusting in general. Appears to be a backlash against the site in general, him as a person and the things that you and I both find repugnant. the marginalization of women to sexual objects for men.
I agree that it's weird, I do. I am not sure if it was you who said to me earlier, "who are you to classify what sexual assault is?"
I have been sexually assaulted before and I don't need to share those stories.
she didn't afaik.
others did. but I don't know who excactly. this thread calls it misconduct.
Call it sexual harassment then. The meetoo hashtag includes those.
This is what I'm still shocked over. I didn't know of it until recently so I went and looked up all his history. I never cared for that pompous prick with his holy attitude to begin with but man that is some crazy stuff and the way that whole situation played and was handled was really bad.
SkylineRKR
Member
This is what I find most disturbing as well, but
True, I didn't know this stuff about Amir0x at all. Did a good job shutting down. I knew he was weird, and a loose cannon as a mod, but this heinous shit I didn't know. Fuck him.
Bill R Boggess
Member
Agreed, clearly this wasn't assault.
What he did was vulgar and presumptuous but if he backed off, it's not assault.
Also, it's good to hear the perspective of a woman on this issue.
And I'm truly sorry for what you've suffered. (I have no idea if condolences from an online stranger mean much.)
Some people call it a sexual assault because they are unsure what exactly to call it, really it would probably fall under Sexual Misconduct; a misdemeanour in the states.
EDIT: I should also note that I don't know that much about this guy. I see a lot of references to prior behavior and this has just added enormous fuel to the fire. I only know of this incident.
at one Point, we need to talk about this in a seperate thread.
for now I will say that Pedophilia is an illness/ psychiatric disorder.
Check back about ten pages for Images with other incidents. This whole shitshow is not just about this one incident.
Exactly! The situation clearly wasn't that big of a deal if they continued to hang out and even had consentual sex after it happened. Neogaf always seemed to love those torches and pitchforks conversations, and it just grew to a boil. And you know what? Fuck those people self-banning themselves and are part of that pile-on / "let's not even look at the facts" atmosphere. For some reason, some people who had accounts here loved to be offended and outraged because they feel it gives them power, or a voice, when really they're annoying and potentially hypocritical. I'm glad those people with that attitude are self-banning because they made the board way too PC and a drag.
I think NeoGaf will survive and actually be a better place because of this. Some of the mods who over-reacted to *almost nothing* and quit probably weren't fit for duty.
PS: Evilore, I'll mod if it's a paid gig.
Bill R Boggess
Member
I honestly didn't know much either until all this happened. The ass grabbing incident is actually worse in some regards because his explanation/justification was just...gross.
Bill R Boggess
Member
I've been around these boards long enough to know this isn't even remotely true.
What this place has lost in the last few days cannot be reclaimed.
Especially if Reset Era takes off.
The ass grabbing, the revenge porn, and covering up for Amirox are all worse, IMO, and his fucking terrible & insane response was needlessly shitty. This was his second/third/fourth chance, and he blew it spectacularly
Bill R Boggess
Member
Agreed.
My favorite part of his "explanation" regarding the ass grab was when he actually referred back to the basement-dwelling nerd meme.
Like, seriously? You went there as somebody who helms one of the largest videogame forums on the net?
Just so fucking bizarre...
Grabbing incident back then seems worse to me, too.
No, i'm not trying to trivialize nor (god forbids) "fight" it. I just think that these particular allegations were made incorrectly under the #metoo tag in an incorrect fashion without knowing the consequences. May be malicious , may be not, but if i'm right, then that is not only irresponsible but actually trivializes the #metoo movement for people that lived through horrible experiences. Time will tell i guess.
Things sometimes can get awkward among CONSENSUAL romantic/sexual partners in the privacy of their bedrooms in pre, during and after the relationship and making retroactive allegations out of context of these situations may be a signal of an attempt to harm somebody just because. This do not includes situations when actual abuse happened.
Buy hey, if this subject matter is too taboo to be discussed even among people like us with similar leanings and beliefs then i will leave the thread and will return to be "toxic" and to "dogpile" all the MAGA , gamer-gate assholes trying to take over NEOGAF thanks to the (and i fully agree with you) very irresponsible actions taken by EL about the whole situation. Just, i hope that neither you nor any member of the forum (regardless of sex) will ever be in a similar situation where you are (incorrectly) accused of an ill-intentioned allegation.
koji kabuto
Member
I still love this place and i don't care about the whole thing, Always thought the MeToo thing gonna go out of control and innocent people will get accused of things they didn't do.
I have been browsing Neogaf for years and will continue doing so.
I have been browsing Neogaf for years and will continue doing so.
Dude Abides
Banned
The #metoo thing isn't just for rapes and physical assaults though. People were posting it about any time they felt taken advantage of.
Unless she was lying, she didn't do anything inappropriate. It's not her job to consider the "consequences" of telling a story (again, assuming it is true) of when a guy acted inappropriately. All she did was say "here's this thing that happened to me" on her facebook page. You're acting like it was some devious plot to destroy gaming and you have no basis for that assumption.
LOL.
Michellaughing.gif
Not everything in life is games or gaming dude. We are talking real life problems with real life consequences for everyone involved in stuff like this, not only in this forum with these particular individuals.
How exactly did he cover up for Amirox?
Dude Abides
Banned
I was making fun of how dramatic you're being. She shared a story on her Facebook page about a personal experience. She wasn't obliged to stay quiet (again, if she's telling the truth) to satisfy some arbitrary standard of propriety that hand-wringing third parties like yourself want to impose.
metalslimer
Member
Even without this latest incident, there is a history that can't be ignored
ecosse_011172
Junior Member
Seems as if the site owner could have saved a lot of the damage to the site if he has ever shown some humility and decency. However, as demonstrated before, he has a massive fucking ego and his arrogance knows no bounds.
The Wise Old Man
Member
My thoughts exactly. I hate the fact that we now live in a world where people undergo trial by social media. Thats just as gross to me as these allegations. My quick points here:
1) Unless somebody proves to me that something happened then Im not going to condemn them.
2) its a credit to NEOGafs integrity that this thread is still up and running.
2) NEWSFLASH: the CEOs of the major companies that own and control pretty much all the shit that you eat, wear, watch, and drive as a consumer are all immoral sociopaths. Those fuckers have likely done shit that would turn your face white with sheer terror at the depravity at what humans are capable of. And yet we still buy all our shit from them. So dont use unverified allegations as a platform for you to say oh look at me, Im a wonderful and unique butterfly whose time has finally come to take a stand! because its all narcissistic bullshit and you damned well know it.
Did you know that piece of living shit Amirox scammed a bunch of good-faith people who donated money to him? Of course, management knew about it and there were zero motherfucking consequences for that (the little fucker continued being a regular user here). How does that fly under the radar of the site owner?
If you didn't know about this, I wouldn't blame you, as threads were nuked from the forum and people couldn't complain about it, as they risked getting banned.
Tranqueris
Banned
1. Cool? How's she gonna prove that all these years later? Also Evilore says he has tons of evidence and witnesses to prove his innocence, yet 48 hours later, it's nowhere to be found.
2. Yes, NeoGaf deserves credit for the couple of threads they've allowed for this stuff, even though they basically shut down half the site to shut people up.
3. Yeah I'm not even gonna deal with all this whataboutism garbage. So your argument is that people should stop criticizing one asshole because there are tons of other assholes out there? Fuck that.
You know, when I heard about all this stuff, I didn't want it to be true because I could just hear the gamergate scumbags who hate this site, salivating at taking him and the site down but watching people on here bend over backwards trying to find ways to defend him is equally disgusting.
"I mean sure he got naked and tried to get it on with her while she was puking her guts out but like.. is being naked legally a crime tho? I dunno guys I just don't know. Also sexual harassment doesn't count unless it breaks a law, thems the rules. "
Well yeah, i agree with you in that part, no one should stay quiet due to fear of consequences in sharing experiences that where distressing for them in any kind of way (sexual or otherwise) and they should come forward .
Nevertheless , again, i don't think this shower situation fits in that and painting it as sexual misconduct is incorrect and (maybe) malicious under the #metoo , that's an opinion , not an imposition.
I'm actually really curious, how you would personally handle being in a similar situation?
As in, one of your Ex's (assuming, you have ex's) tells "privately" one awfully , awkward and cringy story about one stupid thing you did in the past, before your relationship with her started and where you stupidly misread all the signs in that stage of your relationship and you "went for it"?
Keep in mind that it can be any type of allegation. From insinuations to a failed attempt of a kiss to stupidly and drunkenly thinking you were invited to a shower when you were not and left. then she includes your name under the #metoo tag provoking a huge shitstorm for you, loosing your job, loosing your friends, income, and then you become the devil publicly.
What would you do, how you will handle it? (better than EL i'm sure) but you will be surprised? hurt? angry? Confused? what steps you will take?
And this question is open to anyone who wants to answer it too. Just keep in mind the scenario in giving.