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[Autoignition]

At least eight people died Friday morning in gunfire at Santa Fe High school, law enforcement officials confirmed, while at least 12 others were injured, according to area hospitals.

Police arrested a suspect and detained a second person, Harris County Sheriff Ed Gonzalez said via Twitter.

https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Shots-fired-at-Santa-Fe-High-School-12925050.php

This has to stop. Thoughts and prayers are not enough. Twenty-fucking-two shootings, and it's only the middle of May.

The Second Amendment calls for a "well-regulated" militia. Why aren't our armed citizens more regulated?

 

[RubxQub]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...texas-active-victims-police-gun-a8357846.html

This source is saying that there were potentially two shooters:

A suspect was in custody, and a second one was detained, according to Harris County Sheriff Ed Gonzalez. Both were believed to be students at the school.

At this point I feel like it's copy-cat season. Everyone hears about these school shootings and then somehow uses those shootings as justification for more shootings. It's going to get to the point where literally it can't be stopped without dramatic changes in some capacity.

I'm not even talking about gun laws here. Like regardless of gun laws (which would likely have some impact at a mimimum), schools are going to have to actually be locked down and secured. There's a ton of guns out there already. People are going to demand some way to secure their kids in greater and greater numbers.

I don't know what the answer is...but the way our country works, gun laws will be pushed by the D's and school security will be pushed by the R's and more or less nothing will get done until is literally an epidemic. Like a daily occurrence. Apparently this frequency isn't enough for anyone to do anything about it.

 

[infinitys_7th]

That's horrible. Last I heard there were only eight causalties, but that only got worse.

https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Shots-fired-at-Santa-Fe-High-School-12925050.php

This has to stop. Thoughts and prayers are not enough. Twenty-fucking-two shootings, and it's only the middle of May.

The Second Amendment calls for a "well-regulated" militia. Why aren't our armed citizens more regulated?

It's not really different than any other year. You are just seeing more coverage because the media is focusing on it.

Most of those school shootings are also not Columbine-esque like this.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...texas-active-victims-police-gun-a8357846.html

This source is saying that there were potentially two shooters:


At this point I feel like it's copy-cat season. Everyone hears about these school shootings and then somehow uses those shootings as justification for more shootings. It's going to get to the point where literally it can't be stopped without dramatic changes in some capacity.

I'm not even talking about gun laws here. Like regardless of gun laws (which would likely have some impact at a mimimum), schools are going to have to actually be locked down and secured. There's a ton of guns out there already. People are going to demand some way to secure their kids in greater and greater numbers.

I don't know what the answer is...but the way our country works, gun laws will be pushed by the D's and school security will be pushed by the R's and more or less nothing will get done until is literally an epidemic. Like a daily occurrence. Apparently this frequency isn't enough for anyone to do anything about it.

I think there is a large issue with media reporting giving impetus to copy-cats. These events are over-reported in the US media on a time per death basis, and because of that over-reporting people who are mentally ill or have a terroristic attitude towards violence see a way to get attention.

When you look at it as a signal-input problem, guns have stayed constant while media coverage has increased dramatically parallel to the increase in these shootings.

 

[Autoignition]

That's horrible. Last I heard there were only eight causalties, but that only got worse.

It's not really different than any other year. You are just seeing more coverage because the media is focusing on it.

Most of those school shootings are also not Columbine-esque like this.

More media coverage is a good thing, though. The more attention this gets, the more likely things are to change.

It's so frustrating because there are things we can do to try to mitigate this.

+ Mandatory background checks
+ Close gun show/online loop holes
+ Mandatory training classes

Just off the top of my head. Like, there are things we can do that don't involve banning or taking weapons away. Why aren't we doing them?

 

[TTOOLL]

Sick culture that will not stop anytime soon...

It's complicated because the more exposition these people get the more you spread their ideas and encourage more deranged people to do the same.

 

[TrainedRage]

Armed guards IN schools. I guarantee you will see a reduction on soft targets like schools.

 

[Autoignition]

Armed guards IN schools. I guarantee you will see a reduction on soft targets like schools.

Parkland had an armed guard. That didn't help at all.

 

[infinitys_7th]

More media coverage is a good thing, though. The more attention this gets, the more likely things are to change.

It's so frustrating because there are things we can do to try to mitigate this.

+ Mandatory background checks
+ Close gun show/online loop holes
+ Mandatory training classes

Just off the top of my head. Like, there are things we can do that don't involve banning or taking weapons away. Why aren't we doing them?

I agree with background checks, but Point #2 and Point #3 have little to do with these sorts of mass shootings. Even Vegas would have been unlikely to have been stopped by background checks, as the shooter had the money to get whatever he wanted.

I edited my earlier post so as not to double post, but I see that over-reporting as a negative. It gives people seeking attention through violence a guaranteed path to get there.

 

[Autoignition]

I agree with background checks, but Point #2 and Point #3 have little to do with these sorts of mass shootings. Even Vegas would have been unlikely to have been stopped by background checks, as the shooter had the money to get whatever he wanted.

I edited my earlier post so as not to double post, but I see that over-reporting as a negative. It gives people seeking attention through violence a guaranteed path to get there.

Well yeah, but the Vegas shooting wasn't a school shooting. I'm talking specifically about school shootings.

These kids get their guns for these shootings from their parents, right? So, we need to regulate the parents' ability to buy weapons if they shouldn't have them, and once they do have them, they need to be better educated about safety and storage.

 

[TrainedRage]

Parkland had an armed guard. That didn't help at all.

They had a liaison officer. That's not the same as armed guards IN the schools. But yes that's just one possible solution.

 

[JDB]

They had a liaison officer. That's not the same as armed guards IN the schools. But yes that's just one possible solution.

What do you feel should be done to stop these things from happening in general? Ignoring for a moment the actual effectiveness of having armed guards to stop shootings, there obviously can't always be guards everywhere to stop mass shootings. It's not really getting to the root of the problem, right?

 

[NickFire]

More media coverage is a good thing, though. The more attention this gets, the more likely things are to change.

It's so frustrating because there are things we can do to try to mitigate this.

+ Mandatory background checks
+ Close gun show/online loop holes
+ Mandatory training classes

Just off the top of my head. Like, there are things we can do that don't involve banning or taking weapons away. Why aren't we doing them?

We aren't doing them because our damn politicians are only focused on either staying in power or keeping the opposition out of power. While I fully agree with all three proposals, and also could not care less if we banned assault rifles, large capacity magazines, etc. (all things I will never own), I think we have only 3 possible ways to actually solve this shit.

1) Congressional term limits;
2) R party learns to tell the NRA no; or
3) D party says no to all identity platform politics / calls for high taxes to regain the support of the R moderates.

 

[Turbo Killer]

Sick culture that will not stop anytime soon...

It's complicated because the more exposition these people get the more you spread their ideas and encourage more deranged people to do the same.

Exactly, we are a sick fucking country. How are other civilized countries able to survive with no guns and we can’t fucking do it?

 

[GrizzleBoy]

Exactly, we are a sick fucking country. How are other civilized countries able to survive with no guns and we can’t fucking do it?

Weaving the worship of instruments of biological destruction into the very fabric of your identity will do that to a nation.

 

[RubxQub]

What do you feel should be done to stop these things from happening in general? Ignoring for a moment the actual effectiveness of having armed guards to stop shootings, there obviously can't always be guards everywhere to stop mass shootings. It's not really getting to the root of the problem, right?

I mean...armed guards everywhere is a win for everyone right?!

More jobs! More guns! More safety!

 

[Turbo Killer]

I mean...armed guards everywhere is a win for everyone right?!

More jobs! More guns! More safety!

Exactly it shouldn’t be only hospitals getting all the jobs now, share the wealth.

 

[TrainedRage]

What do you feel should be done to stop these things from happening in general? Ignoring for a moment the actual effectiveness of having armed guards to stop shootings, there obviously can't always be guards everywhere to stop mass shootings. It's not really getting to the root of the problem, right?

You are correct, however I think there is no single root of the problem. It's an accumulation of the culture, mental health, gun availability and soft targets.

I think you see what happens at banks and at jewelry stores right? They have an armed security service and that mostly keeps people from going in and shooting everyone then stealing money.

We should treat schools the same. It would be a positive deterrent.

 

[IISANDERII]

https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Shots-fired-at-Santa-Fe-High-School-12925050.php

This has to stop. Thoughts and prayers are not enough. Twenty-fucking-two shootings, and it's only the middle of May.

The Second Amendment calls for a "well-regulated" militia. Why aren't our armed citizens more regulated?

Because the NRA wants to sell more firearms and with increased fear more people will buy.

Also, the government wants to save money and with more+more kids being homeschooled, they'll save money on education.

 

[infinitys_7th]

You are correct, however I think there is no single root of the problem. It's an accumulation of the culture, mental health, gun availability and soft targets.

I think you see what happens at banks and at jewelry stores right? They have an armed security service and that mostly keeps people from going in and shooting everyone then stealing money.

We should treat schools the same. It would be a positive deterrent.

People talk about it requiring an exorbitant amount of manpower, but how much manpower is wasted by US law enforcement on speed traps?

Let counties send their cops to schools instead of having them sit all day off the road waiting for someone going 10-over to drive by (actually, a lot of those traps have two cops - one with the radar, and one to intercept at the next exit). Same manpower.

 

[Autoignition]

You are correct, however I think there is no single root of the problem. It's an accumulation of the culture, mental health, gun availability and soft targets.

I think you see what happens at banks and at jewelry stores right? They have an armed security service and that mostly keeps people from going in and shooting everyone then stealing money.

We should treat schools the same. It would be a positive deterrent.

What if I flipped this and proposed a higher budget going towards public schools? If we want to lean on mental health, then perhaps the solution is an on-site fully anonymous program headed by a team of psychiatrists as opposed to just a "guidance counselor." Bullying is a gigantic factor in a lot of school shootings. What if we took care of the victims a little better?

Instead of introducing more force into the equation, what if we fought back with care?

 

[infinitys_7th]

What if I flipped this and proposed a higher budget going towards public schools? If we want to lean on mental health, then perhaps the solution is an on-site fully anonymous program headed by a team of psychiatrists as opposed to just a "guidance counselor." Bullying is a gigantic factor in a lot of school shootings. What if we took care of the victims a little better?

Instead of introducing more force into the equation, what if we fought back with care?

I'd agree with that. But, at the same time, children are the only people compelled by law to be in a soft target for 8 hours a day. I feel like the government has a duty to provide security.

 

[zumphry]

You are correct, however I think there is no single root of the problem. It's an accumulation of the culture, mental health, gun availability and soft targets.

I think you see what happens at banks and at jewelry stores right? They have an armed security service and that mostly keeps people from going in and shooting everyone then stealing money.

We should treat schools the same. It would be a positive deterrent.

I don't know about you, but my high school was about 5-6 times bigger than the biggest banks I know in my city, with over 4000 kids...Not exactly a place where you can see everything happening at all times..

 

[Snoopycat]

You know when we had our first school shooting in Dunblane. The Government stood up and said, nah we're not having this shit. So what they did was introduce an immediate ban on handguns and clamp down on gun ownership. You can own a shotgun but your going to need a licence. To get that licence your going to get a background check, a police interview and home check and you need to install a gun safe. I was amazed the US Government didn't do the same thing after Columbine. When kids are getting shot up it's time to put the guns away man.

 

[Autoignition]

You know when we had our first school shooting in Dunblane. The Government stood up and said, nah we're not having this shit. So what they did was introduce an immediate ban on handguns and clamp down on gun ownership. You can own a shotgun but your going to need a licence. To get that licence your going to get a background check, a police interview and home check and you need to install a gun safe. I was amazed the US Government didn't do the same thing after Columbine. When kids are getting shot up it's time to put the guns away man.

I mean. I would support that, but American gun culture 2strong. This is very much a pick your battles sort of thing.

Maybe one day we'll get there, but we're nowhere close right now. Change comes to America incrementally.

 

[Moneal]

You know when we had our first school shooting in Dunblane. The Government stood up and said, nah we're not having this shit. So what they did was introduce an immediate ban on handguns and clamp down on gun ownership. You can own a shotgun but your going to need a licence. To get that licence your going to get a background check, a police interview and home check and you need to install a gun safe. I was amazed the US Government didn't do the same thing after Columbine. When kids are getting shot up it's time to put the guns away man.

The US doesn't want to become a country where a joke can get you fined or jail time.

 

[BANGS]

You know when we had our first school shooting in Dunblane. The Government stood up and said, nah we're not having this shit. So what they did was introduce an immediate ban on handguns and clamp down on gun ownership. You can own a shotgun but your going to need a licence. To get that licence your going to get a background check, a police interview and home check and you need to install a gun safe. I was amazed the US Government didn't do the same thing after Columbine. When kids are getting shot up it's time to put the guns away man.

Our government is way too corrupt for our citizens to give up their guns. And if the government actually came for our guns, that would be seen as a declaration of war. We let our disgusting goverment get away with way too much as it is while armed, who know what they'd do after they disarm us...

 

[RubxQub]

The US doesn't want to become a country where a joke can get you fined or jail time.

I mean...I'd personally not want that.

But looking at how things have been playing out, we're a nation of sensitive little children. It's only a matter of time before things just continually progress to the point where we all kill each other or some authoritarian rule changes how we all need to behave to live here.

My model is just to generally not participate in the conversation or even really stay informed on things. It's much calmer and saner in my little bubble existence than it is seeing how weird it can be outside. I don't have the energy to really push for any kind of meaningful change. I know that's defeatist or shallow, but to really change things is going to take so much work.

America can't be cured through some slow and steady process like recycling, where you hope everyone does something better and things just get better. We need Captain Recycle to show up and kill everyone who doesn't recycle to get things back on track.

This analogy was brought to you by Boredom™

 

[Musky_Cheese]

I know it seems like a simple solution, just ban things and problem solved. But in the USA it doesn’t work that way.

Drugs, prostitution, alcohol, tobacco all have bans and/or restrictions that doesn’t stop possession or use.

And none of those listed are guaranteed rights like ownership of a firearm is.

 

[Autoignition]

Our government is way too corrupt for our citizens to give up their guns. And if the government actually came for our guns, that would be seen as a declaration of war. We let our disgusting goverment get away with way too much as it is while armed, who know what they'd do after they disarm us...

Your guns won't save you from the government -- not while the US government is in control of the largest and most advanced military in the entire world. The army has drones that can come in through the window and kill you in your sleep. They can follow you to the ends of the earth.

If we ever took up arms against the federal government, we would all die so damn fast they wouldn't even be able to call it a war. It'd just be a straight massacre.

 

[BANGS]

Your guns won't save you from the government

They've been doing a good enough job for the last 300 years...

 

[Moneal]

Your guns won't save you from the government -- not while the US government is in control of the largest and most advanced military in the entire world. The army has drones that can come in through the window and kill you in your sleep. They can follow you to the ends of the earth.

If we ever took up arms against the federal government, we would all die so damn fast they wouldn't even be able to call it a war. It'd just be a straight massacre.

The military isn't full of government hardliners. Its made up of citizens. Many of which would join the citizenry.

 

[Autoignition]

They've been doing a good enough job for the last 300 years...

? We've only had one civil war so far, and the American government won that one, too.

The military isn't full of government hardliners. Its made up of citizens. Many of which would join the citizenry.

I'm not being sarcastic/trying to take the piss when I say that this would be an awesome premise for a novel.

 

[infinitys_7th]

Your guns won't save you from the government -- not while the US government is in control of the largest and most advanced military in the entire world. The army has drones that can come in through the window and kill you in your sleep. They can follow you to the ends of the earth.

If we ever took up arms against the federal government, we would all die so damn fast they wouldn't even be able to call it a war. It'd just be a straight massacre.

A bunch of Afghani and Iraqi hillbillies still cause problems for the military. We also lost Vietnam.

The US military is not all it is made out to be.

 

[BANGS]

? We've only had one civil war so far, and the American government won that one, too.

With guns. It's called a deterent. The government wants to rule us, not murder us. They can't rule us so long as we have guns. They can't murder us because then they'd have nobody to rule. How can a goverment run without taxpayers to support them? It's pretty simple stuff dude...

 

[Dibils2k]

time for see through bags in texas

 

[F0rneus]

May the victims rest in peace.

 

[rokkerkory]

RIP victims. Please don't turn this thread into political BS.

 

[TrainedRage]

What if I flipped this and proposed a higher budget going towards public schools? If we want to lean on mental health, then perhaps the solution is an on-site fully anonymous program headed by a team of psychiatrists as opposed to just a "guidance counselor." Bullying is a gigantic factor in a lot of school shootings. What if we took care of the victims a little better?

Instead of introducing more force into the equation, what if we fought back with care?

I would say that any extra funding for public schools would be very much welcomed. There are guidance councilors, school psychologists as well as Deans.

The problem is that kids rarely use these resources unless directed to by teachers or administrative workers. It is very rare that a kid will independently go to seek help due to mental health or care.

So I would say sure your point is more than valid, but why not both?

Add in metal detectors that when triggered, automatically lock the doors into the school.

So a set of doors, metal detector, another door that then goes into the school. The addition of one or two armed police or security guards.

And extra resources dedicated to mental healthcare, or student support. Also more parental involvement and after school resources.

 

[dropkick!]

It seems like some people here do not know that there was a school shooting in the US just a couple days ago. Its a really bad... wait.

http://time.com/5279180/dixon-high-school-shooting-student/

The shooter got neutralized quick by an armed resource officer... and it wasn't news.

Oh well

 

[TrainedRage]

It seems like some people here do not know that there was a school shooting in the US just a couple days ago. Its a really bad... wait.

http://time.com/5279180/dixon-high-school-shooting-student/

The shooter got neutralized quick by an armed resource officer... and it wasn't news.

Oh well

Yeah, I heard about that. Won't get coverage because... Reasons. But it was exactly the point I was trying to make.

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

How about this as an idea for the media. Don't do endless pieces on the killer, their life and their motivations. When you do that you're telling unhinged and desperate people that they just have to commit a massacre to get the attention they crave. Leave all that analysis up to experts who are actually in a position to do something other than sell ads.

 

[highrider]

Armed guards IN schools. I guarantee you will see a reduction on soft targets like schools.

On paper it’s a sound idea, but as a combat veteran, I don’t think people understand the adrenaline levels when bullets start zipping around. You aren’t particularly useful until you’ve grown more accustomed to it.

 

[IISANDERII]

The US doesn't want to become a country where a joke can get you fined or jail time.

The US already far more oppressive than that though

 

[zumphry]

The US already far more oppressive than that though

source?

 

[TrainedRage]

On paper it’s a sound idea, but as a combat veteran, I don’t think people understand the adrenaline levels when bullets start zipping around. You aren’t particularly useful until you’ve grown more accustomed to it.

I can understand your point. What if the school guards are armed military vets?
I see it more as a deterrent rather than having them there just to shoot kids who whip out a gun. Like if kids knew some Iraq vet with a XDm was walking the halls they may go, "well damn, maybe I shouldn't target this school."

Just an idea, I'm willing to hear any other ideas or opinions. We need to figure out how to fix this without getting people all fired up about guns being taken away.

 

[dropkick!]

On paper it’s a sound idea, but as a combat veteran, I don’t think people understand the adrenaline levels when bullets start zipping around. You aren’t particularly useful until you’ve grown more accustomed to it.

This is why gun owners train their ass off. Many take multiple classes involving multiple tactical scenarios to a point of many being much better trained than many active police officers. Many do competitive 3 Gun where both accuracy, speed and stamina are involved. And they do it because THEY LOVE IT.

Many people, both civs, vets, and off duty police officers are willing, but they aren't given the chance. I mean, freaking gun free zones don't even allow armed security! What's up with that?

 

[TransientJetlag]

What they really need to do is issue guns to all the students, and train them in firearm safety. School shooters would be way less inclined to pull this shit if theyre constantly surrounded by good guys with guns.

 

[Snoopycat]

The US doesn't want to become a country where a joke can get you fined or jail time.

Could you provide an example where an armed American successfully defended himself from police who were going to take him to prison for telling a joke.

 

[BANGS]

On paper it’s a sound idea, but as a combat veteran, I don’t think people understand the adrenaline levels when bullets start zipping around. You aren’t particularly useful until you’ve grown more accustomed to it.

I'm sure they'll be fine so long as the get the same amount of training Hollywood actors get...

Could you provide an example where an armed American successfully defended himself from police who were going to take him to prison for telling a joke.

Not sure if serious...

 

[Moneal]

Could you provide an example where an armed American successfully defended himself from police who were going to take him to prison for telling a joke.

I would need an example of police trying to take an American taken to prison for telling a joke first.