Helen Keller the Musical
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Does Trump deserve the Nobel Prize if NK de-nuclearizes?
- Thread starter pramod
- Start date
You don;t have to like the guy at all but he is fixing a ton of things that past presidents have failed to. He is also getting China to make concessions on trade. Pretty amazing despite all the attacks from the media (who bury positive news and focus on unproven scandal) Despise him all you want but if he keeps getting results you should vote for him for reelection whether you like him or not.
StrikeNinja24
Banned
It's possible that Kim sees a revolt happening soon.
They don't tend to end well for dictators.
cryptoadam
Banned
I bet if it was Obama in office he would be doing everything in his power to undermine Moon and his negotiations, and probably taking Un's side.
I will give Moon the credit for the heavy lifting, but nothing is going to happen in the Korea's without USA backing. SK needs US support for whatever position they are taking in the negotiations, without it they would fail.
And Trump will never get a Nobel Price because the comitte would comited suicide before voting for him. But IMO we have reached the Trump will cure cancer and people will still shit on him phase. He may be an illegally elected xenophobic blowhard but he is getting things done. He moved the embassy, he bullied Un, he bombed Syria after they crossed the red line. Basically all the lefts favourite dictators/terrorist are seeing now that you can't get away with the same crap you were doing for the past 8 years.
I will give Moon the credit for the heavy lifting, but nothing is going to happen in the Korea's without USA backing. SK needs US support for whatever position they are taking in the negotiations, without it they would fail.
And Trump will never get a Nobel Price because the comitte would comited suicide before voting for him. But IMO we have reached the Trump will cure cancer and people will still shit on him phase. He may be an illegally elected xenophobic blowhard but he is getting things done. He moved the embassy, he bullied Un, he bombed Syria after they crossed the red line. Basically all the lefts favourite dictators/terrorist are seeing now that you can't get away with the same crap you were doing for the past 8 years.
TheLaughingStock
Member
He has handled it quite well given he's new to all of this. The administration's rhetoric, sanctions and back channel comms probably had a notable impact that lead us to where we are today.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...lose-testing-site-state-media-says/ar-AAw7Nll
You can pretend that all of this was going to happen anyway or Moon is solely responsible for each new development but it's pure delusion.
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dolabla
Member
North Korea to suspend nuclear tests and close down nuke site: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ile-tests-and-close-nuke-test-site/538073002/
North Korean leader Kim Jong Un announced he will suspend nuclear and long-range missile tests and plans to close a nuclear test site.
The Korean Central News Agency, which is North Korea's state media agency, made the announcement as the nation's reclusive leader is in ongoing peace talks with South Korean President Moon Jae-in. Kim is also in negotiations to meet with President Trump.
"As the weaponisation of nuclear weapons has been verified, it is not necessary for us to conduct any more nuclear tests," Kim said at a meeting of the Worker's Party of Korea, adding "the northern nuclear test site has completed its mission."
The Korean Central News Agency said the nation would freeze its nuclear tests and long-range missiles, specifically intercontinental ballistic missiles on April 21.
The agency added, "the North will shut down a nuclear test site in the country's northern side to prove the vow to suspend nuclear test."
After the announcement, President Trump posted on Twitter that the move was "very good news."
"North Korea has agreed to suspend all Nuclear Tests and close up a major test site," he said. "This is very good news for North Korea and the World - big progress! Look forward to our Summit."
North Korean leader Kim Jong Un announced he will suspend nuclear and long-range missile tests and plans to close a nuclear test site.
The Korean Central News Agency, which is North Korea's state media agency, made the announcement as the nation's reclusive leader is in ongoing peace talks with South Korean President Moon Jae-in. Kim is also in negotiations to meet with President Trump.
"As the weaponisation of nuclear weapons has been verified, it is not necessary for us to conduct any more nuclear tests," Kim said at a meeting of the Worker's Party of Korea, adding "the northern nuclear test site has completed its mission."
The Korean Central News Agency said the nation would freeze its nuclear tests and long-range missiles, specifically intercontinental ballistic missiles on April 21.
The agency added, "the North will shut down a nuclear test site in the country's northern side to prove the vow to suspend nuclear test."
After the announcement, President Trump posted on Twitter that the move was "very good news."
"North Korea has agreed to suspend all Nuclear Tests and close up a major test site," he said. "This is very good news for North Korea and the World - big progress! Look forward to our Summit."
Airola
Member
Here are the rules in case a good thing happens:
1) Trump cannot in any way or form be responsible for it.
2) The good thing would've happened anyway.
3) It's actually thanks to Obama.
4) It's not actually that big of a deal anyway.
Here are the rules in case a bad thing happens.
1) Trump is always responsible.
2) The bad thing wouldn't have happened without Trump.
3) Obama had absolutely nothing to do with it.
4) The bad thing is actually even far worse than we can imagine.
Listening to NPR this morning and the talking heads were trying to blame Trump for southwest exploding engine.
I mean, really?
Reall? NPR is usually much better then that.
Vicetrailia
Member
I didn't look into it, but it probably had to do with regulations. Still Southwests fault though.
It was one of those side shots that had me furrow my brow. I cannot remember the exact wording but it was akin to the administration delayed/stopped regulation that could have prevented this. I've learned over the years what words actually mean something other then what they say. Administration these days(from NPR,CNN,MSNBC,e.t.c)means Trump. Liberals/left these days(from FOX,RUSH,e.t.c.)means Clinton,Feinstein,Pelosi,Walters,Hollywood actors.
I listen to NPR on my way out, and listen to rush on my way back in so I get two opposing viewpoints almost everyday and it remarkable hearing about the same story and how each network slaps on their own bias.
Its amazing and I always tell people not to just watch/listen to something you agree with everyday. Its not healthy and you'd be surprised how often you end up agreeing with a stance you would not have heard of unless you stepped out of your echo chamber.
This topic of N. Korea has really brought out the worst in the democratic party for sure. Its embarrassing and their recent rhetoric on all things GOP and immigration has me moving further away then ever and I've voted more Democratic over the years then Republican.
W
Whataborman
Unconfirmed Member
I can't help but think that if someone else was President, we'd be seeing wall to wall, non-stop reporting about the happenings in Korea right now. I mean, we're looking at an event that could rival the removal of the Berlin wall and it doesn't seem like it's getting the press that it deserves.
Absolutely. The national media would be going nuts right now if this was happening and Clinton was president.(or if it happened under Obama)It would still be a more even keel if Jeb Bush was president.
I really don't think some people realize how big of a deal this is if, IF this pans out.
Comparing it to the Berlin wall is very apt as this could be a mive that opens N. Korea up to the world and after that who knows?
I think this is bad advice actually.
I think the biggest problem that we’re having right now is the ability to cherry pick what we want to believe it’s true from multiple sources. What ends up happening is the most charismatic argument wins regardless of its accuracy. I see it all the time here.
I try to get my information from people and sources with a long history of accurate reporting.
Vicetrailia
Member
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...test-site-collapse-may-be-out-of-action-china
They have always had problems there, but on another note it seems like the country is starving.
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http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-43914208
I can't create threads so this news needs to go somewhere.
Huge news, and a huge meeting. First time since the 50's that N. Koreas leader has stepped foot in the south.
Also pics of our new SOS meeting Un.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/26/photos-mike-pompeo-meeting-with-north-korea-leader-kim-jong-un.html
Its actually starting to happen.
I can't create threads so this news needs to go somewhere.
Huge news, and a huge meeting. First time since the 50's that N. Koreas leader has stepped foot in the south.
Also pics of our new SOS meeting Un.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/26/photos-mike-pompeo-meeting-with-north-korea-leader-kim-jong-un.html
Its actually starting to happen.
TrainedRage
Banned
It really seems like it is happening. I keep seeing, mostly on reddit and liberal slanted boards with comment sections, claim after claim that NK does this every so often and is playing Trump. But I for one do not remember ever them appearing this close, and KJU seems sincere that he has decided its time to join the world stage. And why wouldn't he? Despite his atrocities he could still end up as the most important person in NK history if this helps them modernize and join the world stage as a partner instead of adversary.
StrikeNinja24
Banned
Then watch Trump screw himself by pulling out of the Iran deal.
W
Whataborman
Unconfirmed Member
I’d argue that we never should have entered into the Iran deal to begin with and that the US needs to pull out of it.
TheShadowLord
Member
split the nobel prize into two and give it the south korean prime minister(figuratively speaking). Haven't been following it really, but it seems like the talking mostly happened between the two Korean leaders so I think Moon deserves a fair amount of recognition
pramod
Banned
Either give it to all 3 of them, or just to Trump. Giving it just to Moon isn't going to look well politically from NK's standpoint.
TheShadowLord
Member
Disagree. Unlike Trump and Moon ,Kim and his family committed humanity crimes against the north korean people who had lived under a dictatorship for so long while some were forced into camps
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Vicetrailia
Member
It stopped a nuclear arms race in the region. It is very important.
nephilimdj
Member
Depends really, South Africa idolises De Kirk, and he had power for a few years before the elections (and still did a lot of evil stuff). Kim length of power is very similar.
Kim killed his pro China uncle, then flew to China and now this. Most likely a lot more going on then we know
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DasPenguin
Member
Yeah...no. All the newspapers (at least where I'm from) were writing about Kim's empty threats six months ago. "Oh we have this and this weapon, beware." He's a young dictator trying desperately to hang on to his title. Only way that works is by show of force. But eventually North Koreans have to eat, so here come the negotiatons. Any president should get credit but mostly for being in office. This is the course of action that would've played out anyway. But Trump is the president, so he deserves credit.
But comparing this to Berlin wall is silly. You know North Korea has done this before, right? South Korean president won the Nobel Peace Prize for these exact same negotiations in 2000. That time they created a joint industrial park, promised peace and let families that the border had split reunite.
In the end North Korea is a nuclear power, and if the dictator wants to keep his position, it's more than likely the empty threats come back in time. And then we start again.
buizel
Banned
Theres some good interviews with NK escapees on YouTube which give a good insight into how people think and feel in NK.
Also theres a good Vice documentary from many years back, but a more eye-opening one would be 'Under the Sun' on Netflix, with basically no narration the film is all hidden video recorded secretly in North Korea, they smuggled the illegal video on small SD cards back from NK - it shows what happens before/after each staged event (in this case 'staged event' meaning basically anything foreigners see in North Korea that DOESN'T look like a dystopian nightmare). North Korea agreed to make this documentary as to show foreigners a 'typical' high school girl as it follows her through her education (in reality ofc it's non of that, it's all scripted, and the kid probably eats grass).
You want to piss on what was intended to be a symbol of peace? I can't fathom being giddy that these talks hit the current roadblock.
Yes. Where can I get it?
Is this it?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/20-Coin-Ro...ral-1-oz-Copper-USA-Made-Rounds-/112267644573
It looks like its already yellow so if your intent was to piss on it, it wouldn't be stained by golden showers.
Obligatory:
I disapprove of where you piss, but I'd defend to the death your right to piss on it.
rokkerkory
Member
Phoenix RISING
Banned
Well this thread aged well.
Uggg I dont want to be giddy over this, but this literally made me laugh out loud.
This is precisely why Trump is such a fucking dirt bag. What person in their right mind would be saying that they deserve a Nobel prize or even mentioning a Nobel prize before everything is done.
Be prepared for an epic string of failures identical to this. Take some time out to read this interview with Ronin Farrow. It’s illuminating.
Uggg I dont want to be giddy over this, but this literally made me laugh out loud.
This is precisely why Trump is such a fucking dirt bag. What person in their right mind would be saying that they deserve a Nobel prize or even mentioning a Nobel prize before everything is done.
Be prepared for an epic string of failures identical to this. Take some time out to read this interview with Ronin Farrow. It’s illuminating.
Papa
Banned
I think the summit will happen at some point. It was never going to be easy with North Korea and with their recent angry posturing, the June summit had to be cancelled. It’s like dealing with a spoiled child: they stamp their feet and go red in the face so you just ignore them until they calm down. The fact that the hostages were released shows me that North Korea was at least somewhat serious about it.
RokkanStoned
Member
First of all, you didn't link the interview, second of all, using an interview with Ronin Farrow is quite a weird thing. The fact that he used for history is a telltale sign that this is a pretty unilluminating interview. Nothing in that quote is at least very illuminating.
Here’s the problem with Obama, and it’s exactly what Hilary said, he believed in the good of mankind. He believed he would work with Putin and that the US was too strong and cohesive and good to be influenced. The last string of Presidents have had an issue listening to experts.
Bush was determined to make a statement on American military strength at the cost of listening to those knew a ME war would be hard fought. Obama was determined on making a statement on American benevolence not listening to experts saying that there are just some people that can’t be reasoned with (I’d argue he learned that lesson late in his second term), and Trump. Trump is learning the the presidency isn’t absolute and it’s coming at the cost of the basis our government and institutions.
nephilimdj
Member
Issue for US military now is its gonna happen without USA. Next 12 months, China and South Korea will work together. While CIA and FBI do everything in there power to sabotage it
Sorry for not including the link. He’s worked at the state department recently and is one of a long line of people saying that it’s been absolutely decimated because the Trump administration doesn’t understand the importance of diplomacy.
It’s a transcript of a spoken interview. “for history” is perfectly understandable in the context of what he’s taking about.
Are you saying it’s not illuminating because it’s well-known that the Trump administration Is filled with idiots? Because I might agree with you there.
North Korea is getting really good at leading Trump around by the nose.
RokkanStoned
Member
No, it's not. As a historian I always take an issue with use of history in politics. It's almost always a sign of ignorance, especially the "disregard for history" bit. We have a term in Norway that's called "historieløs" which accounts for about the same and it's something that's really controversial in the history field, more so as it falls within the problems of historia est magistra vitae and disregard for historicism and a big blow to an individual's ownership in history or as historical beings.
It's just a bad thing done as a rhetorical appeal. He's more or less just stating his opinions in a lot of the cases, based upon his belief in history. Which is fine, I guess, but it's not something you should put weight to.
Perhaps I'm alone in this but it never EVER crossed my mind that it would happen. This whole ordeal (presidency) should be treated like the farce that it is.