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[VulcanRaven]

There's one crucial choice in Assassin's Creed Odyssey that needs addressing: the option of either gender for your protagonist. Historically, the series has primarily focused on male assassins, with playable female characters relegated to specific sections or spin-off titles like AC III companion Liberation.

Back in 2014, the publisher courted controversy when an AC Unity developer described the lack of playable women in its co-op mode as a "reality of game development" - despite the fact that female characters were available in past Assassin's Creed multiplayer modes.

Having the option to play as Kassandra throughout the game - described by Ubisoft as Odyssey's canonical hero despite male counterpart Alexios dominating the marketing and merchandise - is a welcome change, but feels like something that should have occurred much earlier in the series.

Fortunately, Phillips is confident Odyssey marks a turning point in this regard - at least when it comes to the series' Quebec-developed titles.

"I think it would be a mistake to limit our players, limit our fanbase from as many people as possible," he says. "I don't know why we would go back. We should continue pushing in this direction, bring in more players, more fans to enjoy this experience and make it their own experience."

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...yssey-is-changing-the-face-of-assassins-creed

I'm not sure if I like this. I like how you can create a character or change gender in some games but I don't want that in Assassin's Creed. I like to have one great main character(or two like in Syndicate). I think the story can be better when its written for one character. I wonder how different the story will be when you play as Kassandra or Alexios? I hope there will be Assassin's Creed game with a woman main character only. I know there is Liberation but that wasn't a big game for consoles.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

That’s fine with me. There are instances were two genders can bring different perspectives to the game. I care more about an enjoyable experience over historical accuracy.

 

[TGO]

That's Cool as long as it don't weaken the characters by just being a gender avatar
Although I believe Syndicate did it best

 

[Punished Miku]

I don't care really. Seems fine.

I wonder if all the characters will end up being as memorable as a singular protagonist like Ezio. RPGs have multiple protagonists though and its fine if they have memorable and distinct designs.

 

[jshackles]

That's Cool as long as it don't weaken the characters by just being a gender avatar
Although I believe Syndicate did it best

Syndicate was definitely the best - you got to choose between Jake or Evie and level them up independently. They were both actually characters in the story and interacted with each other.

This game seems a bit more shallow in that the characters basically seem interchangeable and don't interact with each other. I'd love to be wrong about that though.

 

[ruvikx]

Identity politics in storytelling & art is a mistake. It'll quickly devolve into demands to have everyone represented, no matter their race, creed (pardon the pun), religion or gender(s). It's a dead-end because you cannot cater to the whims of 7 billion people on planet earth.

 

[Damien Crowley]

Identity politics in storytelling & art is a mistake. It'll quickly devolve into demands to have everyone represented, no matter their race, creed (pardon the pun), religion or gender(s). It's a dead-end because you cannot cater to the whims of 7 billion people on planet earth.

You must be fun at parties...

 

[ruvikx]

You must be fun at parties...

What sort of "parties" feature in-depth conversations about gender representation in Assassin Creed video games? Sounds like a fucking boring party, mate.

 

[JimmyRustler]

See Ubisoft reverse their stance fast if Odysee bombs...

That sais, I have no issue per se with it. But I do think that this also means no AC will have strong main characters again going forward.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

While I am not a fan of forced diversity, I think the women characters in Origins and (hopefully) Odyssey have been well written and well developed. Wonderful characters.

 

[Iggzy]

Transgender midget assasin in next game please

 

[FranXico]

Ok, cool. Options are nice.

 

[Damien Crowley]

What sort of "parties" feature in-depth conversations about gender representation in Assassin Creed video games? Sounds like a fucking boring party, mate.

Mostly those, where "...is a mistake" is not an acceptable answer. And believe me that, I attended fun and roaring parties where themes like "video games and representation" WERE talking themes.

 

[Newly Vacant]

If the player character is just a vehicle for the player, I don't see how this is a bad thing. Options are always great.

 

[Roni]

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...yssey-is-changing-the-face-of-assassins-creed

I'm not sure if I like this. I like how you can create a character or change gender in some games but I don't want that in Assassin's Creed. I like to have one great main character(or two like in Syndicate). I think the story can be better when its written for one character. I wonder how different the story will be when you play as Kassandra or Alexios? I hope there will be Assassin's Creed game with a woman main character only. I know there is Liberation but that wasn't a big game for consoles.

This is borderline pushing it. No matter which side you're on in this argument, this is the sweet spot.

You can play the guy/gal if you want and everyone can play with what they want.

This news can only be celebrated.

 

[Whitecrow]

Well, as long as there are no issues with story and lore...

But I preffer a defined main character, male or female, but defined, and the lore and story built around him/her.

 

[Caldain]

I love this option. I veered away from the AC franchise but Ancient Egypt pulled me back and with them focusing more on RPG elements, I think I'm here to stay. Bioware lost me as a fan and a consumer and Ubisoft seems to be picking up the slack.

 

[LukeSkywater]

Not good enough, i demand a remaster of the Ezio trilogy where you can play as a gender fluid transformer Ezio, with all the dialogue replaced to reflect the proper pronouns based on the players whims at the moment. Give me that Ubisoft or fuck off.

 

[RedVIper]

This is borderline pushing it. No matter which side you're on in this argument, this is the sweet spot.

You can play the guy/gal if you want and everyone can play with what they want.

This news can only be celebrated.

There are definitly stories which would suffer from having to be suited for a male or female character, I don't care which one they pick but I'd prefer if they choose one and go with it.

 

[BANGS]

There are instances were two genders can bring different perspectives to the game.

"Hmmmm... how am I going to climb this wall with my penis/boobs in the way!"

 

[Doom85]

Identity politics in storytelling & art is a mistake. It'll quickly devolve into demands to have everyone represented, no matter their race, creed (pardon the pun), religion or gender(s). It's a dead-end because you cannot cater to the whims of 7 billion people on planet earth.

They're simply talking about gender options. So now we can't even have a game add the option to allow a character to be like HALF THE WORLD'S POPULATION without people immediately decrying it? Good lord.

Also, what sort of logic is this? So rather than making more people happy but also accepting one can't possibly make every single person in the world happy, we should instead go backwards and make even less people happy? That's like someone opening a new restaurant and only offering Coke to drink. Then an employee suggests they at least add Pepsi to the menu if not also Dr. Pepper, Mt. Dew, Sprite, and a few others, and the manager goes, "well, but what do we do when people start asking for Big Red, 7Up, Mr. Pibb, A&W, Sunkist, Barq's, Fanta, etc.? No, clearly we should stick to only making Coke drinkers happy simply because we can't possible carry every single drink that a potential customer could want," and the employee just stares at the manager trying not to openly facepalm in front of him.

 

[Nydus]

Yes! I love playing as a girl. I just hope we get no bikini armour it was the reason I rolled a male in MHW on pc after playing a girl on PS4...

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

No offense to folks who like these games, but the series is about diving into genetic memories for the sake of defending the human race against an antediluvian "Illuminati" society that is trying to enslave us all.

Seems cool that you can at least pick a male or female character. It shouldn't affect the story in any meaningful way.

Odyssey does look pretty interesting. It's the first AC game to pique my curiosity since AC2.

 

[ruvikx]

They're simply talking about gender options. So now we can't even have a game add the option to allow a character to be like HALF THE WORLD'S POPULATION without people immediately decrying it? Good lord.

Also, what sort of logic is this?

Your analogy is null & void because this is storytelling, not mass production of a consumable. Ancient Greece is a perfect example of a situation in which the whole world most certainly cannot be represented - even via multiple character choices.

Can a Chinaman be a Spartan? No. That's one billion right there who're automatically jettisoned from the "I need representation" train. That's why it's a mistake because it makes zero sense & cannot work. Stories need as much focus as possible. Even role player games which do give total gender & racial choice fail to give professional & religious choice (can someone role play as a paraplegic Muslim librarian in Mass Effect? Methinks not).

Identity is Pandora's box & a never-ending pit of nothingness in which everyone could theoretically demand their own avatar - down to the most minuscule details - in games. It'll never work.

 

[LukeSkywater]

(can someone role play as a paraplegic Muslim librarian in Mass Effect?)

I want this game now

 

[Zewp]

Identity politics in storytelling & art is a mistake. It'll quickly devolve into demands to have everyone represented, no matter their race, creed (pardon the pun), religion or gender(s). It's a dead-end because you cannot cater to the whims of 7 billion people on planet earth.

A gender choice, something which has existed in games for decades, is now identity politics?

Character generators in games like Mass Effect must render you completely catatonic.

 

[Doom85]

Your analogy is null & void because this is storytelling, not mass production of a consumable. Ancient Greece is a perfect example of a situation in which the whole world most certainly cannot be represented - even via multiple character choices.

Can a Chinaman be a Spartan? No. That's one billion right there who're automatically jettisoned from the "I need representation" train. That's why it's a mistake because it makes zero sense & cannot work. Stories need as much focus as possible. Even role player games which do give total gender & racial choice fail to give professional & religious choice (can someone role play as a paraplegic Muslim librarian in Mass Effect? Methinks not).

Identity is Pandora's box & a never-ending pit of nothingness in which everyone could theoretically demand their own avatar - down to the most minuscule details - in games. It'll never work.

What are you even talking about? Do you believe that WOMEN didn't exist in ancient Greece? I'll help you out here, they did. Maybe there's a few historians out there who would argue otherwise, but I'm pretty sure the vast majority agree that women were present in that area back then.

And before you play "but muh accuracy! Women wouldn't be fighting back then!" card, oh yeah, Assassin's Creed, TOTALLY a series that follows historical events accurately. I must have forgotten that the American Revolution and ancient Egypt and so on had white-robed assassins parkouring all over the place. Really wish our history teachers would cover that element more.

And really, the only person complaining about this is you. I see more people like you complaining about these options you don't even have to use if you don't want to as opposed to these hypothetical people who want a Chinese playable character in ancient Greece. Just saying, the only one complaining right now is YOU.

 

[Zewp]

Your analogy is null & void because this is storytelling, not mass production of a consumable. Ancient Greece is a perfect example of a situation in which the whole world most certainly cannot be represented - even via multiple character choices.

Can a Chinaman be a Spartan? No. That's one billion right there who're automatically jettisoned from the "I need representation" train. That's why it's a mistake because it makes zero sense & cannot work. Stories need as much focus as possible. Even role player games which do give total gender & racial choice fail to give professional & religious choice (can someone role play as a paraplegic Muslim librarian in Mass Effect? Methinks not).

Identity is Pandora's box & a never-ending pit of nothingness in which everyone could theoretically demand their own avatar - down to the most minuscule details - in games. It'll never work.

We're not talking about ethnicity or religion or anything of the sort. It's literally a gender choice. Something so standard in the gaming industry that it's basically taken for granted that it will be available in most western RPGs.

Why are you starting a 'slippery slope' argument for something that has been available for decades? I know anti-SJWs are generally massive drama queens, but come on. Stop chasing up ghosts.

 

[DeepEnigma]

No offense to folks who like these games, but the series is about diving into genetic memories for the sake of defending the human race against an antediluvian "Illuminati" society that is trying to enslave us all.

Seems cool that you can at least pick a male or female character. It shouldn't affect the story in any meaningful way.

Odyssey does look pretty interesting. It's the first AC game to pique my curiosity since AC2.

Same here, it's the first one that piqued my interest as well. I haven't played an Assassin's Creed game really since the first one, and then Black Flag for free at PS4 launch that I finally started about a year ago but that felt like a repetitive slog, but this setting and the all-in on RPG mechanics definitely has my interest.

I just hope there are some great loot drops to compliment the direction of the game.

 

[ruvikx]

We're not talking about ethnicity or religion or anything of the sort. It's literally a gender choice. Something so standard in the gaming industry that it's basically taken for granted that it will be available in most western RPGs.

Why are you starting a 'slippery slope' argument for something that has been available for decades? I know anti-SJWs are generally massive drama queens, but come on. Stop chasing up ghosts.

Assassin's Creed is a literal historical setting which places its protagonist in eras which had rules. By forcing gender choice into future projects, they'd be either cutting-back on potential characters which could only be a particular gender at that time (whether male or female), or throwing the 'realism' of their world out the window.

 

[Boss Mog]

Honestly I'd rather they have a set character: sex or race doesn't matter but I definitely get more into a game if the main character is well defined. The main characters in gaming that are most memorable to me are not the ones I created, that's for sure. I hope there'll at least be a default character like in the ME trilogy where I could just be DefShep cause he was the guy in all the trailers, so to me he was Shepard.

Of course later on Bioware tried virtue signaling by saying the default female Shepard was the canon one. Just like Ubi is doing with Odyssey saying the female is canon, yet the cover has the guy on it. It's like they're trying to play both sides. Like we'll have the guy in the trailers and on the cover but we'll say the girl is the "real" character in our fake game world. If the girl is the real character then just make her the character and be done with it. Stop trying to pander to everyone because there's plenty of people that will never be satisfied no matter how "diverse" your game is or how many choices you give them. Just make the game and characters you want to make, that's what art is. It's not about pandering.

 

[Zewp]

Assassin's Creed is a literal historical setting which places its protagonist in eras which had rules. By forcing gender choice into future projects, they'd be either cutting-back on potential characters which could only be a particular gender at that time (whether male or female), or throwing the 'realism' of their world out the window.

Yeah, because the Assassin's Order have always been about following societal rules and the games aren't filled with female assassins.

You're being ridiculous, dude. Next time people moan and groan because media outlets say things like "gamers just hate women and don't want them in their games", they can have a look at your hysterical posts in this thread.

 

[Thiagosc777]

They claim they are making this game more like an RPG, meaning grinding for gear and microtransactions for "player choice" (i.e., not having to grind for 50 hours). Any game that is microtransaction focused will offer gender choice, simply because it is a way of selling more customization items.

I am going to give this game a try, but it if it is shit I will just ignore the series in the future.

 

[Zewp]

Honestly I'd rather they have a set character: sex or race doesn't matter but I definitely get more into a game if the main character is well defined. The main characters in gaming that are most memorable to me are not the ones I created, that's for sure. I hope there'll at least be a default character like in the ME trilogy where I could just be DefShep cause he was the guy in all the trailers, so to me he was Shepard.

Why does it matter what gender they are, though? In Mass Effect male Shep and female Shep played practically identically, barring a few romance options that changed.

Having gender options doesn't mean a game automatically has a less well-defined main character.

 

[Doom85]

Assassin's Creed is a literal historical setting which places its protagonist in eras which had rules. By forcing gender choice into future projects, they'd be either cutting-back on potential characters which could only be a particular gender at that time (whether male or female), or throwing the 'realism' of their world out the window.

Or, you know, they could easily offer different dialogue options and cutscenes depending on which gender you choose? I mean, I'm pretty sure that's possible. Last time I checked, Mass Effect 1 came out back in 2007, and you had specific dialogues with Ashley if you were male Shephard and specific dialogues with Kaidan if you were female Shephard. I mean, I would hope Ubisoft is capable of going further with something done ELEVEN years ago (and ME 1 is just off the top of my head, I'm sure there were other games that did this even earlier).

Also, wow, you actually consider the AC games to be telling realistic historical stories. I....err.....okay.

 

[Ozrimandias]

Why?...the option of choose the gender of the protagonist its functional to the story?
It doesnt matter to me if its a woman or a man the protagonist, if it works and its functional to the story...

 

[Thiagosc777]

but this setting and the all-in on RPG mechanics definitely has my interest.

I just hope there are some great loot drops to compliment the direction of the game.

They will have microtransactions for "better loot" or "exp boost", or else enjoying killing the same 3 enemies for 50 hours in order to unlock something cool. Very RPG, much grind.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Your analogy is null & void because this is storytelling, not mass production of a consumable. Ancient Greece is a perfect example of a situation in which the whole world most certainly cannot be represented - even via multiple character choices.

Can a Chinaman be a Spartan? No.

But an Irish sailor can be a samurai demon-hunter in Nioh. I don't think there's an objective rule as to who can or can't be in what roles in a game.

The issue arises if customers want a historical experience, and/or if the developers claim to be offering a historical experience. Then it has nothing to do with the representation and everything to do with the inconsistent logic. When these developers bark at their critics, it is only natural to think there's an agenda behind it all.

But that doesn't mean that any inclusion of a gender selector is a part of the overall "goal" of... whatever nefarious goal is being served here.

 

[DeepEnigma]

They will have microtransactions for "better loot" or "exp boost", or else enjoying killing the same 3 enemies for 50 hours in order to unlock something cool. Very RPG, much grind.

Damn, you're probably right.

 

[Gahadmor12]

Assassin's Creed is a literal historical setting which places its protagonist in eras which had rules. By forcing gender choice into future projects, they'd be either cutting-back on potential characters which could only be a particular gender at that time (whether male or female), or throwing the 'realism' of their world out the window.

Because nothing says realism like assassins jumping on people from 100 feet high, heroes fighting giant snake gods or finding a Final Fantasy sword in a temple in the middle of the Egyptian desert.
And what about the historical accuracy of going back in time through the mind of people that have been dead for 2000 years using a futuristic sarcophagus?

AC uses a historical backdrop, but breaks a ton of rules already. At least be honest and admit that historical accuracy only matters to you if it involves gender issues.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Same here, it's the first one that piqued my interest as well. I haven't played an Assassin's Creed game really since the first one, and then Black Flag for free at PS4 launch that I finally started about a year ago but that felt like a repetitive slog, but this setting and the all-in on RPG mechanics definitely has my interest.

I just hope there are some great loot drops to compliment the direction of the game.

The fact that they're building the game with an Exploration Mode is pretty cool, and they've paired it with some pretty nuanced HUD options.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...ns-creed-odysseys-botw-style-exploration-mode

https://gearnuke.com/assassins-creed-odyssey-fully-customizable-hud/

It won't be a launch title but I'm also not totally ignoring it, which is far more than I can say about Ubisoft's previous AC efforts since AC2.

 

[DeepEnigma]

The fact that they're building the game with an Exploration Mode is pretty cool, and they've paired it with some pretty nuanced HUD options.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...ns-creed-odysseys-botw-style-exploration-mode

https://gearnuke.com/assassins-creed-odyssey-fully-customizable-hud/

It won't be a launch title but I'm also not totally ignoring it, which is far more than I can say about Ubisoft's previous AC efforts since AC2.

Completely agreed. I will be too entrenched in RDR2 this holiday, but it will be on my future radar.

 

[ruvikx]

Because nothing says realism like assassins jumping on people from 100 feet high, heroes fighting giant snake gods or finding a Final Fantasy sword in a temple in the middle of the Egyptian desert.
And what about the historical accuracy of going back in time through the mind of people that have been dead for 2000 years using a futuristic sarcophagus?
.

Yet the same company invests millions of dollars in recreating the most realistic cathedrals, mosques & cities (along with the populations & their clothing) based upon mountains of research vis-à-vis the era in question. Yet no, f-it, realism is not something Assassin's Creed is interested in. So let's have everyone & their momma in the character creator.

Okay.

 

[Vawn]

Only two choices for gender??? WTF????

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Completely agreed. I will be too entrenched in RDR2 this holiday, but it will be on my future radar.

Yeah. I have to hold off on both games, sadly, but it's nice that they're finally innovating the open-world genre. I feel like BotW kicked everyone in the pants and made them realize these games have to be fun and engaging. Map size is meaningless nowadays.

Yet the same company invests millions of dollars in recreating the most realistic cathedrals, mosques & cities (along with the populations & their clothing) based upon mountains of research vis-à-vis the era in question. Yet no, f-it, realism is not something Assassin's Creed is interested in. So let's have everyone & their momma in the character creator.

Okay.

I'd like a lucid explanation as to why gender selection is a bad thing in a videogame.

I understand when devs push things to their limits to "make a statement" (like crippled female front-line soldiers in BF5 reveal trailer) but I don't see how this particular inclusion goes against history or the history of the franchise. Was AC:Liberation a figment of my imagination? Female heroes are present in the series both in the "ancient" timeline and in the "modern" timeline.

Amazon warriors were a Greek myth. Spartan women were taught to fight. If any setting should include a female here, this would probably fit the most, historically speaking.

 

[Fbh]

They said they wanted to make the games more like RPG's and the way they are doing dialog and character interaction reflects that.

Makes sense to be able to chose your gender as in most other RPG's like this.

Normally I'd be sad since I personally prefer more defined characters. But AC hasn't really had an interesting main character since Ezio so it's not like we are losing much

 

[LukeSkywater]

Only two choices for gender??? WTF????

Like srsly. Where me transgender Dragon woman.

https://broadly.vice.com/en_us/article/kz5bxa/eva-tiamat-medusa-dragon-lady-transgender

 

[Xiaoki]

Assassin's Creed is a literal historical setting which places its protagonist in eras which had rules. By forcing gender choice into future projects, they'd be either cutting-back on potential characters which could only be a particular gender at that time (whether male or female), or throwing the 'realism' of their world out the window.

Except it isnt anymore.

AC has gotten more and more fantasy and in Odyssey you play as a child of Zeus and fight mythical creatures like the Minotaur and Medusa.

 

[Doom85]

Yet the same company invests millions of dollars in recreating the most realistic cathedrals, mosques & cities (along with the populations & their clothing) based upon mountains of research vis-à-vis the era in question. Yet no, f-it, realism is not something Assassin's Creed is interested in. So let's have everyone & their momma in the character creator.

Okay.

You're tip-toe-ing around the point. The series is literally called ASSASSIN'S Creed. These guys did not exist in actual history. It's not following history to a tee. Just because they try to make the buildings and clothing accurate doesn't mean that automatically makes what's happening in the story realistic. So you taking issue with a woman having an active fighting role in ancient Greece but excusing the countless other major historical inaccuracies throughout the series' stories is a double standard in my book.

 

[Gahadmor12]

If these guys rage that much for the choice of playing a woman, I can't wait to see their faces when they learn that bisexuality and homosexuality was mainstream in ancient Greece and that their macho male hero will probably have some homoerotic romance choices at some point in the game, you know, for historical accuracy sake.