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Why do some women criticize sexualized character designs?

Are you fine with sexualized character designs?


  • Total voters
    253

RedVIper

Banned
No. Not "done." You came bouncing in here telling me you had a bunch of results showing the complete opposite of what I'd said. Show me those results where women say they don't mind being treated as sex objects for men

Where the hell are you going with those posts dude we can't even see you anymore.
The question never was "do women mind being treated as sex objects", the question is do women mind sexualized game characters, it the answer seems to be overwhelming no.
 

danielberg

Neophyte
Honestly If there is something wrong with showing hot women or hot men in media then i dont want to be right and people that want to take that away because they are insecure or because of political reasons or because they have the personality of bullies and join in sjw crap because you can attack others are just born at the wrong time and can just piss off.
If they dont like it they dont have to watch or play it and their own made up rules of morality should not count for anyone else but themselves.
 
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Snoopycat

Banned
D


I'm not debating the authors of those, errr, articles. I'm debating the ardent you. Define sexualization. Show it amounts to what you said it amounted. Show it is morally reprehensible. Show most women oppose to it.

Surely you can sum up your position and supporting evidence, or are you confined to linking?

Lol. Could you back pedal any harder?

You wanted me to show you evidence. I've given you links which provide plenty of evidence and support for my position that most women don't want to be reduced to wank fodder for lonely twats. It's all there in those articles. I'm not providing you fucking cliff notes. If you can't be bothered to read them thatv's your problem pal.
 

Snoopycat

Banned
Where the hell are you going with those posts dude we can't even see you anymore.
The question never was "do women mind being treated as sex objects", the question is do women mind sexualized game characters, it the answer seems to be overwhelming no.

Jesus Christ. You don't even understand the basic premise of the topic. What are you doing in this thread if you don't even understand what it's about. I don't know whether it's depressing or laughable. Both I guess. Fuck's sake man. There's a TLDR right there in the op.

"TLDR: I (and the other women) feel like the game developers are so desperate, that they actually want to make sexualized designs of the women. It's like they want the dudes to feel pleasure with other women, whenever it be intentional or not, and it's getting tiring and annoying to let the women be simply called objects, thus making the actions sexist. They are not objects, they are peoples, and they want to be treated as such. "
 

Nivrap

Neo Member
"TLDR: I (and the other women) feel like the game developers are so desperate, that they actually want to make sexualized designs of the women. It's like they want the dudes to feel pleasure with other women, whenever it be intentional or not, and it's getting tiring and annoying to let the women be simply called objects, thus making the actions sexist. They are not objects, they are peoples, and they want to be treated as such. "

Here's the thing. Neither we nor the devs are treating women like objects, regardless of what your assumptions about our thoughts are. We like attractive PEOPLE. I can't speak for other people, but I'm not pansexual, objects don't turn me on, only people. So when I see an attractive woman in a video game, I don't see an object, I see an attractive person.
 

RedVIper

Banned
Jesus Christ. You don't even understand the basic premise of the topic. What are you doing in this thread if you don't even understand what it's about. I don't know whether it's depressing or laughable. Both I guess. Fuck's sake man. There's a TLDR right there in the op.

"TLDR: I (and the other women) feel like the game developers are so desperate, that they actually want to make sexualized designs of the women. It's like they want the dudes to feel pleasure with other women, whenever it be intentional or not, and it's getting tiring and annoying to let the women be simply called objects, thus making the actions sexist. They are not objects, they are peoples, and they want to be treated as such. "

I asked you before and I'll ask again, but keep that condescending tone to yourself.

"Snoopy do you have the same issue with over sexualized male characters in games? Because those are just as abundant. "

Quoting myself since you seem to have ignored it, if the reason these sexualized designs of women exist is because male game developers are desperate then why are male characters sexualized as well?
Maybe people just like designing attractive characters, there's no opression, no one is treating woman as objects (These aren't woman these are video game characters btw), video game characters happen to be hot for the same reasons actors happen to be hot, people like looking at pretty people.
 
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Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
Here's the thing. Neither we nor the devs are treating women like objects, regardless of what your assumptions about our thoughts are. We like attractive PEOPLE. I can't speak for other people, but I'm not pansexual, objects don't turn me on, only people. So when I see an attractive woman in a video game, I don't see an object, I see an attractive person.
apparently liking attractive person has become a sin these days.
 

CatCouch

Member
Lol. Could you back pedal any harder?

You wanted me to show you evidence. I've given you links which provide plenty of evidence and support for my position that most women don't want to be reduced to wank fodder for lonely twats. It's all there in those articles. I'm not providing you fucking cliff notes. If you can't be bothered to read them thatv's your problem pal.
C'mon, don't be like this. This kind of tone causes me to lose all respect for your posts. I know this kind of posting is common on all sides but it's just so insulting it's frustrating. I love sexual art, I create it! It's not wrong, it's not hate, it's not saying women are not people and the people who like it are not "twats".

This is all getting too close to an argument I had back in 2012 (on 1up .com) where I was told all art is objectification because drawing a picture of a woman makes her an object to leer at. The paper a drawing is on is an object so whatever was drawn on it was an object. I somewhat assume the person was a troll but I can't tell anymore. Poe's law.
 

CatCouch

Member
Oh, give me a break. As if lonely women don't fantasize over romanticized versions of men.

It's perfectly normal.
Exactly! There's a song I like that's exactly about this!



Love how well this song fits this topic! Sad that I may be the only person who knows about this song...
 

Snoopycat

Banned
I asked you before and I'll ask again, but keep that condescending tone to yourself.

"Snoopy do you have the same issue with over sexualized male characters in games? Because those are just as abundant. "

Quoting myself since you seem to have ignored it, if the reason these sexualized designs of women exist is because male game developers are desperate then why are male characters sexualized as well?
Maybe people just like designing attractive characters, there's no opression, no one is treating woman as objects (These aren't woman these are video game characters btw), video game characters happen to be hot for the same reasons actors happen to be hot, people like looking at pretty people.

If you want to make a thread about male sexualization in video games go ahead. This thread is about women being reduced to sexual objects.
 

Dr. Claus

Vincit qui se vincit
If you want to make a thread about male sexualization in video games go ahead. This thread is about women being reduced to sexual objects.

You should answer the question. It pertains to the topic at hand, as you well know. Stop hand waving it off.
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
If you want to make a thread about male sexualization in video games go ahead. This thread is about women being reduced to sexual objects.
How character design like 2B and Bayonetta reducing woman in to sexual objects?
 

Snoopycat

Banned
C'mon, don't be like this. This kind of tone causes me to lose all respect for your posts. I know this kind of posting is common on all sides but it's just so insulting it's frustrating. I love sexual art, I create it! It's not wrong, it's not hate, it's not saying women are not people and the people who like it are not "twats".

This is all getting too close to an argument I had back in 2012 (on 1up .com) where I was told all art is objectification because drawing a picture of a woman makes her an object to leer at. The paper a drawing is on is an object so whatever was drawn on it was an object. I somewhat assume the person was a troll but I can't tell anymore. Poe's law.

Nah. Your no getting out that easy. This is you -


"In order for that to be accepted as truthful, you'd have to show:

1. Sexualization is tantamount to reducing women "to objects for lonely twats to wank over".
Please show that's the case.

2. Most women oppose sexualization.
Please show that's the case.

I can hardly wait."

See right there, you "could hardly wait."

Well pal, I gave you a handful of links with the evidence you could "hardly wait" for. What did ye do? That's right you started squirming and back peddling and asking for cliff notes and coming out with a lot of pish. Most folk when confronted with the evidence they'd just asked for would have said, aye fair enough and moved on. Instead you decided to double down on your pish and throw out a strawman as you squirmed your way out.

I've never said there is anything wrong with the depiction of nudity or sex in art. It's how that nudity or sexuality is presented that matters.
 

CatCouch

Member
Nah. Your no getting out that easy. This is you -


"In order for that to be accepted as truthful, you'd have to show:

1. Sexualization is tantamount to reducing women "to objects for lonely twats to wank over".
Please show that's the case.

2. Most women oppose sexualization.
Please show that's the case.

I can hardly wait."

See right there, you "could hardly wait."

Well pal, I gave you a handful of links with the evidence you could "hardly wait" for. What did ye do? That's right you started squirming and back peddling and asking for cliff notes and coming out with a lot of pish. Most folk when confronted with the evidence they'd just asked for would have said, aye fair enough and moved on. Instead you decided to double down on your pish and throw out a strawman as you squirmed your way out.

I've never said there is anything wrong with the depiction of nudity or sex in art. It's how that nudity or sexuality is presented that matters.
I have no idea what you're talking about. I only responded to you once over the "twat" comment. I think you're confusing me for another poster because that's literally not me.
 

Snoopycat

Banned
You apparently think having sexy design in video games reducing woman in to sexual objects. We have sexy design both male and female in video games for longest time.

No I don't think that. This is the problem with people like yourself who don't understand that there are very basic differences between art and exploitation. This is why you post nonsense like the above because you don't know what your going on about. You are basically a cow looking at the moon. You know it's there but you don't know what the fuck it is.
 

danielberg

Neophyte
You apparently think having sexy design in video games reducing woman in to sexual objects. We have sexy design both male and female in video games for longest time.
you have him confused with the person he is arguing with happened to me too lol
 

Snoopycat

Banned
I have no idea what you're talking about. I only responded to you once over the "twat" comment. I think you're confusing me for another poster because that's literally not me.

Aye. It was probably aimed at somebody else. Fuck knows. It's hard too see over the pile.
 

Nivrap

Neo Member
No I don't think that. This is the problem with people like yourself who don't understand that there are very basic differences between art and exploitation. This is why you post nonsense like the above because you don't know what your going on about. You are basically a cow looking at the moon. You know it's there but you don't know what the fuck it is.

But who gets to arbitrarily decide where the cutoff point between art and exploitation is? Not a single individual, certainly, and as we've got no sources to imply that anything close to most women see video game characters as objectification, I'd say the jury's out. The impression I get is that everyone has their own idea of where art ends and exploitation begins, and some people's scales are just pushed all the way to the exploitation side. They see exploitation stalking in the bushes, hiding under the bed.
 

Durask

Member
In order for that to be accepted as truthful, you'd have to show:

1. Sexualization is tantamount to reducing women "to objects for lonely twats to wank over".
Please show that's the case.

By the way, about lonely twats wanking

Should lonely twats be forbidden from wanking? Or should they only wank to specially approved porn?
Looks like instead of religion telling us that masturbation is sinful we have pseudo-religion telling us that masturbation is sinful.
 

OverIt

Member
No. Not "done." You came bouncing in here telling me you had a bunch of results showing the complete opposite of what I'd said. Show me those results where women say they don't mind being treated as sex objects for men

You mean in those words or similar? Most women who sexualize themselves or enjoy other women being sexualized dont generally say it out loud. Women enjoy the benefits of being seen as attractive when they are young, men enjoy the benefits fo being seen as experienced when they are older. It didnt start at video games, it started many millennia ago. It is just only an issue when the ones who they dont want to attract are attracted.
 
Lol. Could you back pedal any harder?

You wanted me to show you evidence. I've given you links which provide plenty of evidence and support for my position that most women don't want to be reduced to wank fodder for lonely twats. It's all there in those articles. I'm not providing you fucking cliff notes. If you can't be bothered to read them thatv's your problem pal.

Let me take a wild guess here, you are also a dude not a woman right? i see a lot of dudes here telling me what women want and what women feel.
 

Dr. Claus

Vincit qui se vincit
Let me take a wild guess here, you are also a dude not a woman right? i see a lot of dudes here telling me what women want and what women feel.

Well, he *is* a man. Obviously he knows women better than women know themselves! White Knights gotta White Knight.
 

CatCouch

Member
I'd like to see some opinions on what games people think cross the line into exploitative or are damaging to the levels some of the links on here suggest?

Reading through some of the links above leads me to believe we're not even close to being on the same page. Body image issues, advertising, rape, sex trafficking and sexy game art are not easily lump-able together. I see a lot of the discussions about women and body image had to do with advertising and fashion. A game with sexy art aimed at men isn't really the same thing. There's way too many different things going on here to just label games as a problem.

I see a lot of loose use of terms like sexualized. It seems to mean anything from porn all the way down to just attractive women. I feel like way too many people are chiming in with very different definitions of these words and then others pick the most damaging or harsh definition to casually connect to a far less damaging thing like video games. I have a hard time seeing sexy women in games being tied to sex trafficking.

I'm sure I have an incomplete view of the whole picture, but I'm also sure not many at all have a complete picture.

I also noticed that there is quite the debate in the comment section of this link:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/...buse/201203/the-sexualization-women-and-girls

That's worth a read. Some of the other articles have interesting comments, too. The Ms. Magazine one has women calling other women "slutty and cheap" at the bottom. I feel quite a few people are taking their personal preferences/values and imposing them on others, male or female, mistaking their views as unquestionable truths.
 
Well, he *is* a man. Obviously he knows women better than women know themselves! White Knights gotta White Knight.

Of course he is a male feminist "ally" i dont know why i had any doubt that we finally found a real woman who hate these sexy designs and hear what she think about this subject but no, its just another random dude rescuing women and defending their honor in his spare time on gaming forums lol.

I just find it really weird when i see an 18 pages discussion about how women feel about sexy designs between 20 dudes with no women involved in this discussion.
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
You will actually find lots of woman who like sexy designs thats why you will see lot of female fans cosplay as characters like 2B.
 
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S

SLoWMoTIoN

Unconfirmed Member
mythra-censor-2.png

...
 

Athena~

Banned
No. Not "done." You came bouncing in here telling me you had a bunch of results showing the complete opposite of what I'd said. Show me those results where women say they don't mind being treated as sex objects for men

Did you actually Google her though? Or you think all women think the same way as you do? Kim has tons of photos in her public social media accounts for the world(men and women) to see. They are public and aren't blocking the men to view them.

This was what I found with a quick search of Kim Kardashian:

https://www.bustle.com/articles/942...ut-objectifying-herself-in-selfies-she-should

According to the Associated Press, the Keeping Up With the Kardashians star was asked if she felt that she was objectifying herself with the countless number of selfies that she shares on social media — and she was quite candid (kandid? I promise I'll stop) in her response.
"Yes. I don't think it's a bad thing," she responded honestly. "I think there's power in that and I think I have the control to put out what I want so even if I'm objectifying myself, I feel good about it."


https://www.cosmopolitan.com/uk/ent...9/kim-kardashian-objectification-women-media/

When it comes to some of her sexier photo shoots, Kim says it is the media that twist them into being something they're not. "I think it's a matter of opinion. Sometimes the media exploit me but I don't care, as long as I'm happy and I like the photographer then I don't care."

So yeah as I said more power to her. She feels good and is in control of what she wants to show and doesn't care or mind what other people treat her as.

Just like a strong woman would do.

"TLDR: I (and the other women) feel like the game developers are so desperate, that they actually want to make sexualized designs of the women. It's like they want the dudes to feel pleasure with other women, whenever it be intentional or not, and it's getting tiring and annoying to let the women be simply called objects, thus making the actions sexist. They are not objects, they are peoples, and they want to be treated as such. "

Please don't speak for other women. They can create an account and post here.

Besides, if you can not see the differences between a game character and a real person, then I don't know what to tell you. For example, if you see Ivy and Taki in Soul Calibur then you get upset and say "They are not objects, they are peoples, and they want to be treated as such" then the problem is not the sexualized game characters. How you know Ivy and Taki wants to be treated and how they can be treated as real people are beyond me.

Unless you think Ivy and Taki represent the women in the real world? Seriously? How many men get upset when they see Joel(a cold, cruel asshole), Kratos(raging maniac), and Nathan(lying to his wife asshole)? Do they represent the men in the real world and make men look bad?
 

Whitecrow

Banned
I know a lot of women I'd like to bang in real life and I do not treat them as objects.

Can we be grown enough to distinguish 'sexually good looking' and 'be treaten like an object'.
As far as I know, sexualized women in videogames can speak, help you, give you hints, save your life, have some usefull dialogue... whatever the devs decided them to make, just as any other character, man or woman, sexualized or not.
 

petran79

Banned
Problem is a lot of mentioned games and examples, especially on console releases, would belong to the equivalent of pulp magazines and comics.
Why waste so many resources analyzing this "filth"....
Do people go to the video store or book store complaining about obscene stuff nowadays?
Intellectual level hit rock bottom....
 

lukilladog

Member

Easily dismissible, you are not supposed to pick sources that carry direct interests, even the apa task force report is biased from the start and writen by a bunch of women dedicated to that. It´s like asking christians for evidence of god lol. But it should be so easy to demonstrate how sexualization causes so much rape and suicides if you compare to muslim countries where they "fixed" that a long time ago lol.
 
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Gavin Stevens

Formerly 'o'dium'
I’m fine with it when it’s done right and nice. Sadly, that means any Japanese developer, yes I’m singling them out, will get it wrong. I’m ok with a low cut top and some ripped clothes in some rather sexy poses but not belts covering double Es on 11 year old girls. Which is pretty much every Japanese game. Ever.

Anyway, ignore me, I just remembered boobs. And boobs are always fun. Whose chicken is this?
 

danielberg

Neophyte
I’m fine with it when it’s done right and nice. Sadly, that means any Japanese developer, yes I’m singling them out, will get it wrong. I’m ok with a low cut top and some ripped clothes in some rather sexy poses but not belts covering double Es on 11 year old girls. Which is pretty much every Japanese game. Ever.

Anyway, ignore me, I just remembered boobs. And boobs are always fun. Whose chicken is this?
There is a obvious bias against anime and japanese developers from sony for example, the fact that you get censored when you make two anime women with big tits kiss each other but western games dont get censored when two children in a realistic artstyle kiss each other like in the last of us is... to say the least kinda bullshit, it truly smells of dumb feminists hating on anime because it makes them feel "weird" and shows unrealistic characters that is all the reason they need. Or does anyone truly think the next big wrpg with sex scenes will get censored in the future or a strip club in the next gta game? Of course not.
 
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danielberg

Neophyte
Children should be censored in all places for kissing. That’s... that’s just not a world I want to see.
I agree but you wont get censored for sex scenes in the witcher or a strip club in gta but you will get censored if you do it in a anime style meaning its completely arbitrary and in the hands of dumb people.
But ok i am just pissed at sony going the sjw route for no discernible reason
 

Enygger_Tzu

Banned
I’m fine with it when it’s done right and nice. Sadly, that means any Japanese developer, yes I’m singling them out, will get it wrong. I’m ok with a low cut top and some ripped clothes in some rather sexy poses but not belts covering double Es on 11 year old girls. Which is pretty much every Japanese game. Ever.

I thought you are/were a game developer or at least worked in game development.
 

Gavin Stevens

Formerly 'o'dium'
What does that have to do with anything? It’s common knowledge that Japanese are very, very lax when it comes to this sort of thing, to the point where it’s comical. It’s usually expected in even the most simple of games. Over there, this sort of sexualisation sells big, and there’s a big focus to keep pushing it.

It’s not even close to being the same in a western studio, notnhbleas you’re emulating the Japanese look. A strip club in gta is a good example, because a strip club exists in a real world, it’s portrayed as such, with obviously over 18 looking mature women. Japanese games however usually don’t just go further, they go way too far, with most of them containing what looks like short, squeaky voiced pre-pubescent girls, with huge mammoth tots that bounce around when they do much as blink. It’s a totally different thing. Ones a realistic portrayal of a woman in a sexual style with an age appropriate guide line, the other is... just weird, man...

Now of course not all Japanese developers do this. But most do. Even games grounded in realism like MGS5, if you can call it that, have an over the top near naked woman who doesn’t have to be near naked, but hey, it’s what Japanese gamers want. Cid in FFXV is a good example, she’s not over the top here, but let’s get her huge tits bouncing in an open top and focus the camera on them and her arse every time she’s in shot.

It’s twl totally different ways of doing it. It’s apples and oranges.
 
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Enygger_Tzu

Banned
What does that have to do with anything? It’s common knowledge that Japanese are very, very lax when it comes to this sort of this, to the point where it’s comical.

Because that is a so ignorant statement only someone who knows about game development from Kotaku and Screier would make, not someone who had worked in vg development.

Most Japanese characters, even those that are meant for ludicrous fanservice are not underage, and almost all are from 16 year old and above, legal in some European countries (thanks neo-liberals!)

Either way, that is not a position one should voice of his co-workers, even of the different country ones because it recreates and promotes the above-mentioned ignorance that is circulating the vg industry.
 

Fuz

Banned
Most Japanese characters, even those that are meant for ludicrous fanservice are not underage, and almost all are from 16 year old and above, legal in some European countries (thanks neo-liberals!)
Yeeeeeeah... making the character look 12 and saying "IT'S ACTUALLY A MOON CAT GODDESS A MILLION YEARS OLD" doesn't really fix the problem for me.
 

Gavin Stevens

Formerly 'o'dium'
It’s not exactly a thing that people shy away from. It’s common knowledge amongst everybody. You can say they are of legal age all you like, or a 600 year old witch, or a 100 year old demon who drank some magical potion... None of that matters when they make her look like an 12 year old school girl.

Look, Japan is a very old school type development environment. They make good shit. But let’s not beat around the under age bush here, they are also one of the most perverted places when it comes to making things overly sexual.

This isn’t a taboo subject or something people don’t think or say... it’s common knowledge. They love a certain look and feel to their games. But that look doesn’t gel with the rest of the world. Works the same the other way around either, they don’t want dude bro shooters like we do.
 

Enygger_Tzu

Banned
Yeeeeeeah... making the character look 12 and saying "IT'S ACTUALLY A MOON CAT GODDESS A MILLION YEARS OLD" doesn't really fix the problem for me.

Making the character 14 and engaging in a lesbian kiss with another 14 year old character does it, however?

(The Last of Us: Left behind)
 

Enygger_Tzu

Banned
It’s not exactly a thing that people shy away from. It’s common knowledge amongst everybody. You can say they are of legal age all you like, or a 600 year old witch, or a 100 year old demon who drank some magical potion... None of that matters when they make her look like an 12 year old school girl.

Look, Japan is a very old school type development environment. They make good shit. But let’s not beat around the under age bush here, they are also one of the most perverted places when it comes to making things overly sexual.

This isn’t a taboo subject or something people don’t think or say... it’s common knowledge. They love a certain look and feel to their games. But that look doesn’t gel with the rest of the world. Works the same the other way around either, they don’t want dude bro shooters like we do.

Well, I seem to notice that your ignorance hits astronomical levels, does your "game development" career is tied with Kotaku, IGN or Polygon? Because I am sure only then you would claim to work in the vg industry and still hold those views.

So, about the bolded, it's common knowledge to whom exactly? To what exactly?
And it does not gel with who exactly? Or are you speaking for the rest of us?
 
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