Then your sociologist is creepy if there is no further context.
You are essentially devalueing your own argument with this.
The semantics in this case are irrelevant: you use pretentious language to hide away the notion that there simply isnt enough data to form a proper opinion.
PDP needs to be shutdown. The man is repulsive and evil and anyone who defends him is justifying the alt-right. Theres no excuse to watching PDP in 2018.
I agree with Nassor. Why is the WSJ obsessively watching him? They should just ignore him. Fucking journalists justifying the alt-right and literal Nazis.
I think this thread should be closed. The back and forth from our end should stop. We are approaching 2019. It's time imo even though I know wounds are still fresh, to move one.
The reality is that we have members here who are members there. Every time a Gaffer says "they are all a bunch of crazies" we our insulting our own members. Same as when someone posts a comment from over there insulting us as Nazi's. They are insulting Gaffers too.
We can't stop the Nazi and Alt Right insults. Even when one comes and says posts it here and we reply with "receipts please", it doesn't ever get proven but doesn't stop them from continuing to do it elsewhere. Yes it's a baseless insult. How cares.
NeoGAF isn't the alternative to any other site. We have always done our own thing in the past. We need to do that again.
That doesn't mean we should reject all criticism. But the crying over new fair moderation and standards is simply low effort and lacking in reality and brain function. Not allowing hate towards any group is a positive thing in NeoGAF. Don't argue with stupid... it only brings you down.
This site isn't for someone to come and complain about a ban else where. The community deserves better. Imo if that's all you are bringing to NeoGAF, you shouldn't be here. Not asking or seeking bans for those that do that. Just saying I don't think you should bother logging into NeoGAF.
We need to move on imo.
They said NeoGAF was dead and here we are undead af.
I always thought people are insulting the moderators with that statement, far more so than insulting everyone on a forum. Era isn't "only made up of crazy leftists" or whatever. It's that their opinions are the only ones allowed. There's loads of different opinions to be found there, I'm sure, but many are silenced and afraid to disagree. It was the same way on this forum a little over a year ago, and for a long while before that.
But I'm not about to generalize EVERYONE on a forum, or using a hashtag, or who identifies as a feminist, or whatever else.
As for shutting down this thread, I have mixed feelings about that. As was suggested about the politics forum elsewhere recently, one of the main advantages there is that it helps contain discussion that otherwise many people are happy to avoid. Kind of like the system wars section of GameSpot, back in the day. And if we do close this thread, do the mods ask people not to post about Era? I don't really even read this thread very often, much less post in it, but I can see the pros and cons of it.
I do not agree with their definition of the term sexual violence, but I do not know how that is creepy.
You are essentially devalueing your own argument with this.
The semantics in this case are irrelevant: you use pretentious language to hide away the notion that there simply isnt enough data to form a proper opinion.
We have the account of his friend, who was making the thread with the intention of complaining about the outcome for his friend. The assumption that he does not exaggerate negatively the behaviour of his friend is of course still an assumption, but very likely to be true. Moreover, my argument is of course based on the notion that he is telling the truth. If he was completely misrepresenting the behaviour of his friend and he was merely blinking, then, well, it was not sexual harassment, but I am talking what is being described here. The concrete individual is inconsequential for that discussion anyway, because we are talking whether the described scene is sexual harassment. It does not matter if in reality something completely different happened and then it is not sexual harassment anymore.
Regarding this "harassment" issue everyone was discussing, honestly I flat out wouldn't 100% believe the anecdote to begin with.
Especially considering where said anecdote was posted.
Seems almost like ban bait to me.
Poster starts a thread that obviously is a bit sketchy on the details and invites a discussion on sexual harassment on ResetEra?
That's looking for people to come in and say "this doesn't seem so bad".
User Banned: Trivializing sexual harassment. Account in Junior Phase.
The correct responses are "urg, men are trash" or "fuck him, I hope he gets fired".
Ive also asked you to do your own research. Did you?
You want better examples? Lets look at this recent one first. Within 10 posts one user deems it needed to snoop around in the post history of Tommy 7154. Totally called for, right? Lets look at the post that was referenced instead.
FWIW: This is about Jaffe's recent call out on ResetERA, which you can find here.
My my, a 1 week ban with the reason '' User Banned (1 week): Attacking other users; Trolling; History of severe infractions'' for this post:
The second part of his cite reacts to a user called Grimminski who said: ''Year Old Account 27 posts Ain't nobody going to listen to your bullshit PS: Jaffe's a cunt.'' who in return was responding to a post that said: ''Someone has to tell them. Maybe eventually it will sink in.''. Obviously this is totally called for and that post suffered no consequences whatsoever. (It isn't, in case you were wondering.) Tommy continues to this post:
Somehow the above comment by Tommy is ''Attacking other users; Trolling; History of severe infractions.'' But somehow the person he is responding to isn't guilty of this fact? You would think that it would be Grimminski that would be attacking other users, no?
Here is another user getting permabanned for what seems to be a reasonable posting. Community whining it is! (I post this link just as an additional source of info, not an extensive part of the argument)
But wait wait wait... Ofcourse this sole example would not be enough for you. Tommy might also be a nazi, so lets focus on two users in particular, Enzom21 and Excelsior. Since you don't seem to believe that some members are baiting others into a ban, perhaps i have to illustrate it, since the above example isn't about baiting but showing deviating and inconsistent moderating for harmless opinions. The following examples are to illustrate that baiting indeed happens and causes users to get banned (Let alone that people like Enzom and Excel report these users because of it). Ill limit it to two examples each (EDIT: Scrap that, Excel gets more) but extensively linked with context to establish the argument, as it would be undoable to link multiple examples and not give them the same kind of treatment (I have a life aswell, believe it or not)
Here is a thread page revolving around users Zackiechan and Dr Wily who get questioned by not only Enzom but also RedMercury, another one of those baiting folks and actually a prime provoker of this craft. Watch as how the two react when facts are presented. It goes too far to list every individual post here, i reckon you can read the thread page by yourself. Ofcourse, DrWily got banned since he fell for the bait. Read this VOAT link that sums it up far better than i ever could (And it saves me writing this out). <- If you needed a good example of baiting, this whole thing might be worth looking into.
Here is a police officer getting Permabanned for making a well sounded statement. To illustrate the bait, ill show you what post this user named Patrol was responding to from Enzom21. Enzom's post:
The above is a baiting question, in case you were wondering.
Patrol's answer:
User Banned (Permanent): History of defending and dismissing police brutality. Previous infraction for similar behaviour. Account in junior phase. Read the prior posts for more context, including some great contributions from fellow baiter DigitalOP. Relevant context here: Patrol is a police officer himself. This is a proper example of how baiting can lead to a ban, so i hope that just by purely using Enzom i have elaborated this point enough. Apparently this same Patrol got banned from OldGAF aswell, so makes you wonder, hm?
Bonus: this user tells Patrol: ''Fuck you you racist racist piece of shit! I'll gladly take my ban for telling you one more again fuck you racist piece of shit'' and does not get a ban or even a warning for attacking other members/inflammatory. Strange, isnt it?
Here is Zattmurdock getting banned for a week for ''Inflammatory comparison, accumulated infractions''. This post by Excelsiorlef suggests she hitted the report button (Without directly stating it so, obviously. If you are at this point in reading, Nobody: This is the part where you have to read inbetween the lines in order to understand why i am saying what i am saying in this thread.)
Here is a user disagreeing with Excelsiorlef that Brianna Wu isn't trans. Excelsior claims she isn't. This user disagrees, and eats a permban for ''Transphobic content'' because she makes a rather light comparison. Even so, do you think that's worth a perma?
If you want a graph showcasing the kind of baiting, here is one from 4 months ago showing the reply-actions to Excelsiorlef. Reply-actions happens when a moderator acts upon a poster replying to this user or Excel replies to this user (In this case Excelsiorlef). Now that you know this, the graph is in the spoiler below. Please be advised that this is from data from 4 months ago, and might have been worse since. (In case you want to try it out yourself, here is the link. Be warned, the site might load slowly as it computes the graph.) The blue i believe represents warnings, and the red bans, the thickness i believe represents the amount of times Excel replied to a user. In case you were wondering that there is a grand scheme pertaining that baiting is a illusion. It is now visually represented by the posts these users have made themselves, it is thus a statistical fact.
An (outdated) explanation of the system (Which has since expanded to include colours, but atleast the summarizes a general idea) is found here. (Disclaimer: I don't agree with the language used in the comment section over there.)
Bonus: You can also just look for yourself how amazing Excel is, with this link and this one. Warning: VOAT contains commentary i personally distance myself from and i would not use this language or support it.
Disclaimer: I do believe my Enzom examples are more established and understandable than my Excel examples, but in general i think both serve the point i want to bring across, namely that both users are terrible.
Now, kindly go right ahead and some own research before reaching conclusions that there is a grand scheme or anything.
Its because you didn't look at the context and just looked at that post directly. I am assuming that people can do that on their own. Unless you want me to provide all posts pertaining and correlating with these posts, but at that point, we have to question if autonomous fact finding is something to be expected here. What's more, you also twist your own words later on in texts. See also this sideways post.
Is it really not? Because you are the only user here on GAF that consistently places doubt on bans and recurringly also claim that ERA staff isn't flawless. Whilst i buy into the latter part, i don't buy the former. This consistent doubting of obvious misuse of staff perks is further enhanced by the fact you repeately have mentioned to see some of the mention staff as friends or people you interact with.
Thus, it is not strange that people want to connect the dots, no matter how you opposed you are at that. And, concurrently, i am starting to believe that notion aswell. You can't deny that such behavior comes across as strange and taking a defendist attitude at some of ERA's staff members, despite that you have also said some of their policies are not right either. Considering you are disagreeing with obvious, although not pitch perfect (admittely) examples and apparently unable to read the context behind them before reaching a conclusion, i really have to ask if it really isn't such a important issue in the first place. Because i believe it is.
And yet, you aren't opposed to playing Devil's Advocate against rather obvious cases. So if the moderation is problematic to you, instead of me and others having to list examples for your amusing, perhaps it is better that you come up with a list of examples of what you consider inconsistent moderation behavior? I am being serious here.
You don't find it strange that:
Excelsiorlef never gets banned for anything despite her questioning
Enzom21 near-always asks a question pertaining to racial issues (And also never gets banned for anything)
One user was banned off-site in a Discord for things that occurred on ERA (Can back this up but after all the linking i think i am good in establishing credulence)
The ban reasons are near-universal
Alimanassor has the worst takes of them all and still takes a spot on the membership list
Oh i could show you even more, but you have this entire thread, VOAT, The Bore and Kiwi to just figure that out. Which is why i said to do your own research. If the majority of the gaming hemisphere is wrong, then prove that. Because i find that theory hard to believe. Thus ill repeat what ive said earlier about this: (And please go ahead and read that post aswell since you didnt acknowledge it. EDIT: And this one.)
''.... You assumed negative intent on that example when there was none, even when i told you that there was nothing on this specific user that would justify calling it a drive-by post.
To that extent, go ahead and prove it wrong. Since you have your ERA connections, i am sure you can wiggle some tails there. Or don't, in which case you would have to accept the conclusion that it is very unlikely that half of the gaming hemisphere is wrong and thus subject to bias and a grand scheme of things.
You aren't more clever than anyone else here, and i like you purely for your alternative train of thought because without dissenting and opposing opinion you never get far. There is however a limit and that limit in this case is when you are opposing of something without even knowing what you are opposing for. Which is how one would arrive at the accusation of personal bias and grand scheme of things.
Im not so much against opposing view, but i am against ignoring telltale signs of a broken system. And if you are going to proclaim that the majority consensus is wrong, biased and its all just a grand scheme, then you better show why we are wrong, or provide evidence to the contrary, or understand that your perception might be a bit clouded.''
Who is to say that even better examples will be dismissed or softened because you don't look at the context in which it is said? I have to ask this because i don't have the confidence from your end that you actually follow the loose strings that are given. As i see it, you just see the end of the loose string and you don't show any interest into looking where that string originates from.
I believe this is the main reason a lot of GAFfers butt heads against you in words that are less advisory and more inflammatory - It is, to many, difficult to believe that one user could have such staunch opinions, but is unwilling to look at the origins, the circumstantial evidence, of where the criticism comes from. Half of the gaming sphere can't be wrong, and if they were, don't you think its far more logical to assume a smoking gun then to claim blindness over what you are (supposely) not seeing?
But if you wanted new evidence: Have a look above. So you don't have to keep an eye out. This post took me over 1.5 hours to write. If that isn't establishing credulence insanity, then i hope that by now my red neck is a bit covered by this.
PS: Ultimately, lets not forget hate speech is also a thing on ERA. This gets no penalty, calling politician Sarah Sanders a ''lying fat sack of shit''. Other perfectly sane comments made in that thread:
-Burn in hell. -a huge cunt.
-Go fuck yourself
-a lying cunt
-Just like we remember the Nazis as good obedient folk just following orders Burn in hell Sarah.
-feckless cunt
-sack of shit
-human garbage
-I'm sure Hitler hoped he would be remembered as a martyr and courageous leader right before the bullet tore through his brain.
SHS is pure dog shit swimming in a lake of dog shit.
-fat sack of shit -Disgusting, abetting pig will do just fine.
People can say what they want about this thread being shut down but I think posts like this are incredibly interesting.
It's a great analysis.
I think it goes a long way to explaining how posters end up with 27k posts and it isn't just "they don't have a life".
For all intents and purposes some of these people are working for ResetEra.
Kind of acting like a community police officer or a referee.
I wonder if they get paid or something and I wonder why they aren't just upgraded to moderators?
So 27k posts in 14 months is approx 1930 posts per month.
So around 63 posts per day.
441 posts per week.
If you are working say a 40 hour work week then it's only about 11 posts an hour.
That's not too bad.
If it's spread out then you could consider that they are working on flexi-time which is even better.
No pay and no benefits though? That's not good.
I mean, it's not too bad if you look at it in the context of full time work.
Probably works quite nicely into the victim narrative too. Working full time trying to defend the site from The Evildoers and getting no pay and no thanks.
Kind of like a really sad and pathetic Batman.
Also, while I am on a bit of a rant, how the fuck is ANY kind of progressive person a big fan of WWE? Surely, WWE ticks all of the boxes on the "problematic" checklist?
No more dinners with female colleagues. Don’t sit next to them on flights. Book hotel rooms on different floors. Avoid one-on-one meetings.
In fact, as a wealth adviser put it, just hiring a woman these days is “an unknown risk.” What if she took something he said the wrong way?
In summary, the pendulum has swing too far and has been weaponised. How do you deal with it? Don’t walk down a dark alley in the city if you don’t have to.
You don't find it creepy that a sociologist on your university had, and i quote, ''posters on every door claiming "this is no room for sexual violence, e.g.: (...) starring".''? Seems obsessive.
We have the account of his friend, who was making the thread with the intention of complaining about the outcome for his friend. The assumption that he does not exaggerate negatively the behaviour of his friend is of course still an assumption, but very likely to be true. Moreover, my argument is of course based on the notion that he is telling the truth. If he was completely misrepresenting the behaviour of his friend and he was merely blinking, then, well, it was not sexual harassment, but I am talking what is being described here. The concrete individual is inconsequential for that discussion anyway, because we are talking whether the described scene is sexual harassment. It does not matter if in reality something completely different happened and then it is not sexual harassment anymore.
Except that is exactly what should matter. You seem fixed on the idea that what happened (Which is an incomplete story) is ''Harassment'', when nor you or me know what exactly happened. All we have are what is presented and no, simply because so many variables remain its rather much to assume harrassment, because we don't know specifics.
Regarding this "harassment" issue everyone was discussing, honestly I flat out wouldn't 100% believe the anecdote to begin with.
Especially considering where said anecdote was posted.
Seems almost like ban bait to me.
Poster starts a thread that obviously is a bit sketchy on the details and invites a discussion on sexual harassment on ResetEra?
That's looking for people to come in and say "this doesn't seem so bad".
User Banned: Trivializing sexual harassment. Account in Junior Phase.
The correct responses are "urg, men are trash" or "fuck him, I hope he gets fired".
Also, while I am on a bit of a rant, how the fuck is ANY kind of progressive person a big fan of WWE? Surely, WWE ticks all of the boxes on the "problematic" checklist?
Don't expect them often though. Just because very irregularly i like to set a record straight does not mean everyone will, and certainly the majority of anti-GAFfers from ERA won't take notice anyway, nor should they be.
''Im telling people i am blunt and other should be too as a way to excuse myself from the fact that ''generic asshole'' is basically my middle name''
You don't find it creepy that a sociologist on your university had, and i quote, ''posters on every door claiming "this is no room for sexual violence, e.g.: (...) starring".''? Seems obsessive.
Except that is exactly what should matter. You seem fixed on the idea that what happened (Which is an incomplete story) is ''Harassment'', when nor you or me know what exactly happened. All we have are what is presented and no, simply because so many variables remain its rather much to assume harrassment, because we don't know specifics.
That's not how fact finding works.
I am entering every thread of that nature on ERA with a sense of doubt.
That's how far it has become: You can't even reasonably assume that the poster in spe made a geniune thread.
Don't expect them often though. Just because very irregularly i like to set a record straight does not mean everyone will, and certainly the majority of anti-GAFfers from ERA won't take notice anyway, nor should they be.
Oh yeah, you did.
A good tag is a joy forever.
Is it tagging everyone though? Because if it does then ill obviously stop using this tag, don't want to draw attention like that.
If you look at the last couple of pages (or hell, I guess all of them), you'll notice they're all Japanese characters that triggers them.
It really highlights how much the West has changed. Japan still has their balls in tack and design games the way they want to. But in the West, developers no longer have control over their art.
It's now about appealing to shareholders and SJWs/Feminists. Both who don't even buy games, but complain about them. What a tragedy.
It is a special tag that highlights any logged in user. I am not sure if it also triggers a notification, though. Considering the many replies, it seems it does, which is a dangerous prospect.
You don't find it creepy that a sociologist on your university had, and i quote, ''posters on every door claiming "this is no room for sexual violence, e.g.: (...) starring".''? Seems obsessive.
Except that is exactly what should matter. You seem fixed on the idea that what happened (Which is an incomplete story) is ''Harassment'', when nor you or me know what exactly happened. All we have are what is presented and no, simply because so many variables remain its rather much to assume harrassment, because we don't know specifics.
Then we are talking different things. The scenario described in the posting is sexual harassment. Independent of whether it describes a real event or a fictional one. Given the relation between the poster and the alleged culprit and the clear intention of complaining about his friend being mistreated, there is additionally no reason to doubt that the story is factual. I am not engaged in fact finding here though, because it is an anonymous story, there is no way to fact check anything here, so any discussion about that is fruitless per default.
Clarification: Youare talking different things. You think it is sexual harrassment and you aren't moving an inch from even a softened view. You think you are reasoning with logic here, but you are forfeiting common sense and reality in doing so.
Thus, you are being a logical deviant devoid from the realities that common sense permits one has. So, are you rejected Vulcan, or?
Independent of whether it describes a real event or a fictional one. Given the relation between the poster and the alleged culprit and the clear intention of complaining about his friend being mistreated, there is additionally no reason to doubt that the story is factual. I am not engaged in fact finding here though, because it is an anonymous story, there is no way to fact check anything here, so any discussion about that is fruitless per default.
Well to be honest the screen grab of the MacOS activity monitor is bonkers, 1. why the hell is he (I made a huge assumption there....) using Safari when its been known for years to be a RAM hog and prone to memory leak?
2. Even when that said, 2.8GB for 1 tab is boarder line criminal......ResetMiner
PDP needs to be shutdown. The man is repulsive and evil and anyone who defends him is justifying the alt-right. Theres no excuse to watching PDP in 2018.
Reset dubs this racist, but in real life, I bet these types of comments are very common.
It all depends on what your level of Political Correctness is, coupled with statistics.
Reset dubs this racist, but in real life, I bet these types of comments are very common.
It all depends on what your level of Political Correctness is, coupled with statistics.
Definition of racism:
"prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior. "
As long as someone is willing to back a claim with facts, I do not believe making certain generalizations to be wrong.
Definition of racism:
"prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior. "
As long as someone is willing to back a claim with facts, I do not believe making certain generalizations to be wrong.
Let me pull back from saying racist since people take that shit personally. Ima amend it by saying it's an ignorant as fuck statement.
How is this dude gonna tell me he knows that a 5 year old toddler is gonna be well behaved just because they're asian? Have you seen a 5 year old? They're monsters. Pretty much all of them, regardless of race.
And how is this 5 year old gonna automatically be good in school? Just because he's Asian? Lots of dumb asians out here. 5 years old is like preschool. Everyone is stupid at that age.
He's sterotyping. I didn't look at the thread where it came from, but did he back up his generalizations with facts about 5 year old asians? Unless he did, then even by your standards, he was wrong.
Ultimately, he was wrong at a minimum.
eta- i don't think he should permanently banned or anything, but a warning about generalizations would have sufficed.
Reset dubs this racist, but in real life, I bet these types of comments are very common.
It all depends on what your level of Political Correctness is, coupled with statistics.
It actually is racist really ignorant, as much as I often disagree with Era's views of what's racist what's not...My wife is of Asian origin and she would fucking murder me if I said something along these lines....
Let me pull back from saying racist since people take that shit personally. Ima amend it by saying it's an ignorant as fuck statement.
How is this dude gonna tell me he knows that a 5 year old toddler is gonna be well behaved just because they're asian? Have you seen a 5 year old? They're monsters. Pretty much all of them, regardless of race.
And how is this 5 year old gonna automatically be good in school? Just because he's Asian? Lots of dumb asians out here. 5 years old is like preschool. Everyone is stupid at that age.
He's sterotyping. I didn't look at the thread where it came from, but did he back up his generalizations with facts about 5 year old asians? Unless he did, then even by your standards, he was wrong.
Talking with people in real life, making observations based on the world around you, reading statistics and science articles.
Could he be racist? Maybe.
I'm just saying, I hear such commentary everyday. I don't believe people who speak in this manner are actually racist, but are just describing what they see or discussed with other people.
It is a special tag that highlights any logged in user. I am not sure if it also triggers a notification, though. Considering the many replies, it seems it does, which is a dangerous prospect.
I don't think it did, I wasn't notified at least. I noticed it while I was reading through the thread, I just decided not to comment on it since it confused the hell out of me.
Reset dubs this racist, but in real life, I bet these types of comments are very common.
It all depends on what your level of Political Correctness is, coupled with statistics.
