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[Panajev2001a]

I don’t think much of the PS4 success can be handed to the PS3.

It does speak to Sony’s pure grit, but I don’t think anyone at Sony will ever call the PS3 a success.

I think that PS4 would have failed to capitalise on their opportunity as well as they did if they did not show they cared about their consumers and tried to prove the worth of their console, which IMHO they did as I have tons of titles that show it off well (and in the last 2 years or so many third parties started taking it as lead console and their quality took a nice jump).
No matter if a new generation is coming up or not or if it has already launched, you see SIE not pulling any punches and releasing AAA and AA software for existing HW... it is one differentiating factor for PS home consoles over the last 25 years.

It did serve the corporate imposed mandate of helping to win the Blu-Ray war and it massively reduced the losses the project was taking and the turnaround itself was a success, but compared to PS2’s domination sure it underwhelmed. Still people can look at it fondly for many reasons and can still feel like a success, people like the Xbox One and Spencer MS turnaround and there they went from a draw / slight victory to being massively outsold... still there is positive in it all.

Most of the money was already allocated and spent by the time it was developed, manufactured in high volumes, and shipped for its launch... you could divide the timeline in PS3 pre launch and PS3 post launch money wise and the strategy Sony took to cater for players’ needs and save it.

 

[McCheese]

Title is misleading, Sony hasn't even locked down a clock speed on the CPU or GPU yet. Microsoft has made it clear they don't want to be caught short again, but as both parties are also using very similar chipsets, it's less about "special sauce" and more about how much they are willing to charge for the console and when.

Both Sony and Microsoft are very much tied down to AMD's product cycle, and so they'll likely have roughly the same spec in terms of CPU and GPU. Sony might be launching 6-8 months later, but that isn't enough time for them to jump in on the next product cycle.

So there are basically two options.

- Either be the more powerful console by being the most expensive.
- Be the most powerful console at the expense of other functionality.

For the latter there are a load of options available, such as dropping the disk drive, a smaller SSD drive or a hybrid-drive, reducing the number of ports, heck - even shipping without a controller and using the current gen controller again. But I feel Sony is actually being smart here by focusing on load-time improvements etc over pure graphical grunt, and Microsoft would be making a mistake not to follow suit.

Now to be fair to Microsoft, they promised to have the most powerful console with the 360 (which also released first) and in retrospect, I think most would agree they achieved it.

Either way it's fucking great to see Sony and Microsoft going at it again for making a powerhouse console, as an old fart with disposable income I want some insane £600 beast that dims the street lights when I turn it on.

 

[ethomaz]

I don’t think much of the PS4 success can be handed to the PS3.

It does speak to Sony’s pure grit, but I don’t think anyone at Sony will ever call the PS3 a success.

Here we disagree again.

Part of PS4 sucess and trust were due the strong, solid and constant release of key critical success from mid to late of PS3 generation.

Gamers trust before PS4 release that Sony delivery won’t disappoint them just like they did with PS4 until near PS4 launch.

Same is happening this gen PS4.

So yes PS3 did help PS4 success and trust... that was why even Sony was surprised that near half of PS4 sales come from 360 owners in the first years... it was the build trust created by PS3 in gamers mind.

 

[Panajev2001a]

No 86 million v 85 million thats not dominating. I'm just pointing out Ps3 did not sell 100 million. People should remember tomorrow isn't promised.
Don't want get to involved in your console war.

Wish we had the final exact number, but no it was not dominating... launching. Year later to cover the gap they had they did outsell the Xbox 360 globally on a month by month basis... anyways...

“Tomorrow is not promised”... nobody was saying it was for PS5, but it did not read like that.
You started the console war with the kind of “drunk on PS4 like they got drunk with PS2” comment... “wink wink... PS5 like PS3... nudge nudge” .

 

[Bogroll]

Wish we had the final exact number, but no it was not dominating... launching. Year later to cover the gap they had they did outsell the Xbox 360 globally on a month by month basis... anyways...

“Tomorrow is not promised”... nobody was saying it was for PS5, but it did not read like that.
You started the console war with the kind of “drunk on PS4 like they got drunk with PS2” comment... “wink wink... PS5 like PS3... nudge nudge” .

No i was just stating a fact PS3 did not sell 100 million and that it's not guaranteed the Ps5 will even tho i wouldn't bet against it. The underlined part of it is all the voices in your head, not mine, absolutely not mine just using facts.

 

[KlickKlack]

What a shock. People who leak MS details claim their system will be more powerful than Sony's one day after Sony failed to give details on clock speed, GPU and ram.

no one is telling:
"more powerful"
they said "more advanced" ... thats a big difference.... more advanced can be: 2 USB ports more than ps5

 

[Panajev2001a]

No i was just stating a fact PS3 did not sell 100 million and that it's not guaranteed the Ps5 will even tho i wouldn't bet against it. The underlined part of it is all the voices in your head, not mine, absolutely not mine just using facts.

This is what I originally replied to...

[...] remember the Ps3 and how the Ps2 dominated sales.

Sure, past success is not a guarantee, but it borders on the obvious. Past success and how that evolves can help predict with a modicum of accuracy the potential... mishandled at launch as it may have been the PS brand was still strong enough thanks to its precious performance and the PS3 had potential and could be pivoted in a great console and its sales proved it.

 

[Mista]

One thing is certain, regardless of the next Xbox is 10mhz faster or 30tf faster...

They need to come in at the same or cheaper price. Nobody will give two shiny shits if it’s more expensive.

The X launched with the same price tag as the Pro. With the X being no doubt way better than the Pro. So, you think they’ll go next-gen with lets say $600-$700 console? For me I don’t think so. MS are in no place to take chances! The risk and reward period is long gone

 

[Panajev2001a]

The X launched with the same price tag as the Pro. With the X being no doubt way better than the Pro. So, you think they’ll go next-gen with lets say $600-$700 console? For me I don’t think so. MS are in no place to take chances! The risk and reward period is long gone

The X launched at $499 and the Pro launched at $399...

 

[Evilms]

It's feel like Orbis/Durango chapter II.

 

[Imtjnotu]

The X launched with the same price tag as the Pro. With the X being no doubt way better than the Pro. So, you think they’ll go next-gen with lets say $600-$700 console? For me I don’t think so. MS are in no place to take chances! The risk and reward period is long gone

Bro. Check your facts

 

[Gavin Stevens]

Yeah, I was going to say, the X was far more costly than the Pro, and while the X is a way better machine... That doesn't matter to the general public. Its a mid cycle upgrade that nobody really cares about other than the hardcore.

But a brand new system?

Lets just be serious here, and I'm an MS fan over Sony before anybody says anything else. MS need to show the world that they have games, they have the balls to carry them through, and they are a better system/service. So they NEED to compete in a lot of ways. Games take time to make, which is why it makes me laugh when people moan about how MS are buying all these companies but not showing results... No shit. They are buying companies for next gen development. Don't forget when it comes to first party games, Sony are light years ahead in this area. You wont find anything this gen, hell I'm tempted to even say NEXT gen also, that will look as good as a first party Sony title. They just know what they are doing.
But what MS need to do, is get those 360 fans back in the room. They need people to look at both machines, compare the spec and compare the feature list, and have that person side with them. Sadly, a lot of people got burnt by MS last gen with a shoddy "entertainment" system, and they wont ever come back... That's just how it is.

But going into E3? They need to show a system on par or exceeding the Sony system, they need to show games games games, they need to show they listened to the issues with the OS, they need to show that the price is the same or fuck it, LESS, than the Sony system. They need to go in all guns blazing, or they will be dead last yet again.

And I'm saying this as an xbox fan over the PS4.

 

[mejin]

The X launched with the same price tag as the Pro. With the X being no doubt way better than the Pro. So, you think they’ll go next-gen with lets say $600-$700 console? For me I don’t think so. MS are in no place to take chances! The risk and reward period is long gone

well, you are not completely wrong. X started to sell a little better when retailers pushed promos on it for $399 all over the year.

 

[Bogroll]

This is what I originally replied to...

And what's wrong with my pointing out of someone saying Ps5 is guaranteed to sell at least a 100 million and me replying " remember the Ps3 and how the Ps2 dominated sales" and basically saying don't take things for granted but i wouldn't bet against it what CJY said. You interpreted it as this

You started the console war with the kind of “drunk on PS4 like they got drunk with PS2” comment... “wink wink... PS5 like PS3... nudge nudge” .

 

[Mista]

Bro. Check your facts

It’s okay to correct me if I’m wrong

 

[Three]

Steady on sunshine, i wouldn't bet against it but remember the Ps3 and how the Ps2 dominated sales.

And yet the PS3 while being called a 'disaster' weaker and being expensive sold about the same as the 360 at near 90Million

 

[Mista]

The X launched at $499 and the Pro launched at $399...

Ah, looks like I’m wrong then. Still, a $100 for that difference is worth it. At least to me

 

[Bogroll]

And yet the PS3 while being called a 'disaster' weaker and being expensive sold about the same as the 360 at near 90Million

Yes i agree. Twas a disaster for Sony.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Ah, looks like I’m wrong then. Still, a $100 for that difference is worth it. At least to me

Sure, it is a cool looking design, it has the best implementation of BC of the Xbox One line, it has enough raw horsepower and RAM to allow better brute forced upgrade patches, and was competently designed. It is a kick ass console.

What it does not do is shame / destroy / show PS4 Pro is a cheap weak upgrade by comparison: X launched a year later at $100 more meaning that if we did not have the performance difference we see there would be a lot of explaining to do . It is not punching above its weight IMHO.

 

[Three]

Yes i agree. Twas a disaster for Sony.

So why fo you believe that the PS5 which there are no signs of being a disaster selling 100 Million is somehow unfathomable?

 

[Panajev2001a]

Yes i agree. Twas a disaster for Sony.

It could have been, but it was not IMHO... the same way Xbox One is not a complete failure (both compared to the previous console they replaced).

 

[Gavin Stevens]

People call the xbox one a disaster, because its not selling PS4 numbers, yet fail to see the xbox one is selling... Pretty damn good. For its lifetime sales compared to previous generations, its fine. Its just the PS4 is a unstoppable train and is performing way ahead of what anybody thought.

But the xbox one's crappy ram situation, coupled with a show that was all "TV TV TV TV LOOK AT ALL THIS SHIT YOU DONT WANT!" is a perfect copy of the sony PS3 E3 that was out of touch with its fanbase. This next generation, its going to be VERY interesting to see just how aggressive these companies can be. But MS need to see they have to take a bit of a knock on console price, otherwise they will repeat the same shit all over again. Nobody cares if your machine is more powerful, not when the weaker one plays better games for cheaper. But a more powerful machine at the same price or cheaper... Then you get people debating their choice.

 

[mejin]

People call the xbox one a disaster, because its not selling PS4 numbers, yet fail to see the xbox one is selling... Pretty damn good. For its lifetime sales compared to previous generations, its fine. Its just the PS4 is a unstoppable train and is performing way ahead of what anybody thought.

selling really good? brand is so much damaged outside US and UK. It is already behind 360.

Switch is the one with great sales and will probably surpass X1 this year.

 

[Bogroll]

So why fo you believe that the PS5 which there are no signs of being a disaster selling 100 Million is somehow unfathomable?

What are you on about ?

 

[Smiles and Cries]

I'm pretty sure MS will do everything they can to have an edge over Sony, but PS5 is not the only thing they have to worry about since they also want to push Xcloud. Edging Sony is easy compared to what Google is hoping to pull off.

 

[Mista]

Sure, it is a cool looking design, it has the best implementation of BC of the Xbox One line, it has enough raw horsepower and RAM to allow better brute forced upgrade patches, and was competently designed. It is a kick ass console.

What it does not do is shame / destroy / show PS4 Pro is a cheap weak upgrade by comparison: X launched a year later at $100 more meaning that if we did not have the performance difference we see there would be a lot of explaining to do . It is not punching above its weight IMHO.

Why does it have to shame/destroy in the first place? I got a Pro because I enjoy PS exclusives but if we’re comparing hardware? The Pro is nothing next to the X

 

[JohnSpartanLee]

More details have been leaked: Xbox will get Blast Processing!

Can't reveal the source yet.

 

[Bogroll]

It could have been, but it was not IMHO... the same way Xbox One is not a complete failure (both compared to the previous console they replaced).

That's a fair point as both have learnt lessons from their mistakes, but i can't see Xbox coming close as in Console sales next gen as the direction they seem to be going with games on Switch and PC.

 

[Elenchus]

The ugly slow loud ps4 pro is hardly something to be proud of.

Xbox engineering has overtaken Sony.

Crazy. I was thinking the exact same thing. The 1X is not only more powerful than Pro but is also smaller, quieter, and cooler.

Many try to minimize that by saying 1X came out later. But the timing only explains the power. The rest is just Cerny being outclassed. From an engineering perspective the Pro loses on every single aspect.

There were those here on GAF who were certain the 1X would overheat when they saw the size and heard the power brick would still be internal. Now we are very likely to see PS5 copy many aspects of the 1X cooling method.

So I just don’t think MS is really that impressed with Mark “no it’s really 8.4 TFs” Cerny. Panay and the Surface boys pretty much exposed him.

 

[TimFL]

The rumor that MS will have 2 consoles probably give credit to this one also. But in the end it doesn't matter if the base XB2 is weaker than the PS5.

I also don't really care about hardware, I know that both consoles will aim to be the most powerful one so we're bound to have good offering. I'd wager that the defining thing that makes or breaks the next gen consoles will be software and services (e.g. PS Now vs xCloud / Game Pass, Plus vs Gold, backwards compatibility, first party games: the one with the better offering wins that gen).

 

[ANIMAL1975]

How would any of those insiders know the Xbox Next is way "more advanced" though? Mark Cerny didn't give any hard spec numbers.

Well maybe they can tell the future on their crystal balls

The non-existent specs for the next Xbox are more advanced than the unknown specs for the PS5 according to unknown Xbox fanboy on the web? That's thread worth OP?

/thread

Who is he talking about or is it tales from his ass?
Didn't read it all yet but the statement is correct about what MS said and where, you'd have to be mighty confident (unsure if they still are though lol).

They lost me with trust Xbox insiders. Ok maybe they have ms inside information,... but then you need the goods from the other side to claim the "most advance of the both" singy.

 

[Elios83]

Xbox insiders sharing the news with perfect timing obviously as instructed to do to counter PS5 news.
I wonder where such confidence comes from given that Sony has not announced perfermance details and many of those are subject to change (see the last minute RAM upgrade in the PS4).
Also with a console with the specs of the PS5 being more likely to cost 499$ rather than 399$ at launch the real question is what Anaconda is and how they're going to position it.
If Microsoft is moving away from hardware as the platform and they just want to have on the market an option which represents their flasghip product and it is the most powerful no matter the price than it's certainly possible that they're making something more powerful than PS5.
But at the same price and releasing at the same time I have serious doubts Microsoft is going to pull it off.

 

[Hayriko]

Anaconda

 

[Clear]

Crazy. I was thinking the exact same thing. The 1X is not only more powerful than Pro but is also smaller, quieter, and cooler.

Many try to minimize that by saying 1X came out later. But the timing only explains the power. The rest is just Cerny being outclassed. From an engineering perspective the Pro loses on every single aspect.

X came out a year later at a 25% higher SRP than Pro. That's a very substantial price-point disparity, not "magic".

 

[Handy Fake]

Anaconda

Don't want none unless it got buns, hun.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Why does it have to shame/destroy in the first place? I got a Pro because I enjoy PS exclusives but if we’re comparing hardware? The Pro is nothing next to the X

Heh, it does not have to shame or destroy, but again it is not “nothing” compared to the X. It is console that came out a year earlier and for a much cheaper price: value per dollar of either is pretty much the same to me. For the time it came out, the price they asked for it, and the features it has (including VR enhancements).

 

[ResilientBanana]

"we gave the SOC 6 teraflops"
"320 GB/s memory bandwidth"
"8 CPU Cores" (okay that was vague)
clear picture of 12 GB GDDR5 on render
"World's most powerful console"

Clear detailed specs in the most crucial areas of that generation of consoles. The full memory spec was revealed in that video. The GPU power was revealed in that video.

At E3 2016 we had actual numbers for Scorpio of two key components.

A few days ago Sony gave us this.

Removed from Xbox LeakAnnounced PS5 Spec


0 numbers from key components from PS5 reveal.

It's probably an attempt to be secretive so that they can buff numbers once Xbox unveils their console. This also might be why they don't have an E3 presence this year so they don't look foolish. The sly thing Microsoft could do is only announce their Lockhart console and keep Anaconda in the shadows until release window. This would force Sony to announce their specs. But clearly I could be way off in my assumption.

 

[Klayzer]

Here we disagree again.

Part of PS4 sucess and trust were due the strong, solid and constant release of key critical success from mid to late of PS3 generation.

Gamers trust before PS4 release that Sony delivery won’t discount them just like they did with PS4 until near PS4 launch.

Same is happening this gen PS4.

So yes PS3 did help PS4 success and trust... that was why even Sony was surprised that near half of PS4 sales come from 360 owners in the first years... it was the build trust created by PS3 in gamers mind.

I lean more to your opinion that the trust factor of delivering games throughout the entire gen was a big factor for a lot of gamers to choose Sony, but that XB1 reveal I think was the biggest factor why the 360 crowd jumped ship.

 

[Mista]

Heh, it does not have to shame or destroy, but again it is not “nothing” compared to the X. It is console that came out a year earlier and for a much cheaper price: value per dollar of either is pretty much the same to me. For the time it came out, the price they asked for it, and the features it has (including VR enhancements).

I gotta agree there even though I’m not interested in the VR at all but since we’re talking value then you’re absolutely right mate

 

[bitbydeath]

It's probably an attempt to be secretive so that they can buff numbers once Xbox unveils their console. This also might be why they don't have an E3 presence this year so they don't look foolish. The sly thing Microsoft could do is only announce their Lockhart console and keep Anaconda in the shadows until release window. This would force Sony to announce their specs. But clearly I could be way off in my assumption.

If rumours are to be believed the spec announcement should arrive at PSX.

 

[Panda1]

so far ps5's ssd is far more advanced than any nexbox rumor

and what is stopping MS using the exact same technology since it won't be proprietary for Sony?

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

All of this console warring over speculation from biased "insiders" who want attention.

 

[Ar¢tos]

I'm sorry, but the only insider I trust is misterxmedia. Until he says how many hidden dgpus the next Xbox has I won't believe anything!

 

[Darius87]

More details have been leaked: Xbox will get Blast Processing!

Can't reveal the source yet.

and it will become more avanced water cooler then before!

now climate change is inevitable.

thank you xbox.

 

[mckmas8808]

See X vs. Pro.
More GPU cores, higher clocks, more RAM, more features, who knows.

The X came out a year later than the PRO. So are you saying MS will release the Xbox Next in 2021?

 

[Gamernyc78]

I hope Microsoft shows off some really cool exclusives this E3 so I could ditch Sony and BS censorship next gen.

The same way I ditched Xbox over the rrod fiasco and the info tht they knowingly sold faulty hardware to beat Sony to launch.

MS has always created powerful consoles, and their online service will no doubt be better and smoother as well. Powerful hardware and software combined makes for a powerful synergy that sony can't seem to match. MS only real downside is getting more exclusives.

Yeah because online was even an issue or conversation piece at all this generation (this isn't the 90s) Sony has matched its online offering with hardly any disruptions or issues this gen so the difference in online if any is negligible.

Powerful synergy? Where do ppl come up with this shit? Lol power means nothing if Sony's first party ips still outshine and look better than most console games on any console ala Horizon Zero Dawn, God of War, etc.

Xbox issues are more than just getting more exclusives. It's about getting more quality exclusives. Beyond that it's about trying to take over markets they just can't seem too in other countries and continents ala E. U. Sony has a big differentiator in VR (although sales aren't through the roof this gen u never know) what differentiates Xbox? Online doesn't for most, bc? not tht many ppl use it and ps5 will have it. streaming? Sony has been doing tht for years. Exclusives? Sony's exclusives are more abundant and generally of a higher caliber. Power? We don't know what power difference will be and who will wield it and even then price plays a big part so thts isn't an advantage.

It would be dope if this competition pushes a commercial, affordable hololens type peripheral for Xbox. I'd be interested.

 

[chinoXL]

MSFT had to drop a line...can't let Sony snatch all the next gen pre-hype...i highly doubt either will be drastically more powerful than the other. i think it will come down to who has the better secret sauce baked in

 

[Afro Republican]

selling really good? brand is so much damaged outside US and UK. It is already behind 360.

Switch is the one with great sales and will probably surpass X1 this year.

Us, UK, West Africa, Mexico. CANADA, Brazil, Russia.

I don't get how the Xbox is "damaged" in countries it never did well in with the 360. The 360 numbers in Europe and Asia were only slightly better because of the year head start than hit a wall after the second year which is why Ps3 was able to easily pass the 360 in Europe and Asia, since Ms didn't follow up. Instead focusing on Japan for 3 years when the market there was already contracting.

Also some countries got a one year Kinect boost, one of the two years the 360 outsold the Ps3 worldwide.

 

[SonGoku]

I remember back in 2012/2011 all insiders and press were so sure MS would deliver the more powerful console.
Its all speculation and wishful thinking at this point

That being said if one consoles comes a year apart from the other, i hope its much more powerful no matter the brand.

 

[HarryKS]

Oh, he gets his sources from MisterXMedia.