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A senior localization producer at Sega of America admits to changing a scene in Judgment to educate the Western male Gamers on politics.

lock2k

Banned
People are reacting to him while dumping the game, not him alone.

That's what being an asshole causes... people to boycott the product. We are fed up of putting up with shit like this. They don't respect the product, they don't respect the fanbase. As a translator and localizer myself, I feel pissed off with a professional like him. He is doing a disservice to gaming.
 

Closer

Member
That's what being an asshole causes... people to boycott the product. We are fed up of putting up with shit like this. They don't respect the product, they don't respect the fanbase. As a translator and localizer myself, I feel pissed off with a professional like him. He is doing a disservice to gaming.

It's not like the whole game revolves around that scene alone, so I think to be that outraged, you need to be a really special snowflake.
 
It's not like the whole game revolves around that scene alone, so I think to be that outraged, you need to be a really special snowflake.

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zeorhymer

Member
It's not like the whole game revolves around that scene alone, so I think to be that outraged, you need to be a really special snowflake.
This is what they do, too:

They start with trivial things like this and then act all amazed that people are upset about it (see: the little mermaid thread here and the pages upon pages of “lol wow a bunch of GROWN MEN upset over a MAKE BELIEVE FISH CARTOON FOR BABIES”) and browbeat everyone into just shutting up and going along with it. Then next time they push it a little further, then a bit more.
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
It seems a direct translation of what I posted is not the right direction I should have taken. Do you guys want the localized posts instead?
I mean, the happy go lucky middle panel is totally what most people here look like, pretty much campaigning for the guy's head on a pitchfork (with the whole call for a boycott based on that one person being an extension of this) because "fuck she's hot" (loudly while staring) was changed to "smile for me"! Riiiiight. I thought the first panel was gonna be about the people who make a mountain out of the flat field this barely-change is, talking about how such small changes are just the beginning and if they suck it up we're all doomed and all. Whatever his intent and inspiration to change one line to an equivalent, the actual change is a whole lot of nothing and it doesn't come across as either pandering or educational but hey, it was brought to our attention this guy felt moved about one of the struggles of the modern woman so he should be eliminated from our games :messenger_grinning_sweat:
 
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Pallas

Member
I wonder how the developers feel about them changing the context of that?

They really shouldn’t have changed it, it does no harm and show anything horribly offensive.
 

zenspider

Member
It is. It's unwanted attention. The evolutionary reasons behind it do not matter.

They absolutely do if you want to understand and ultimately change behavior and social norms.

For one, "victims" can take a breath and realize that it is not necessarily about them.
Second, men who engage in this behavior can also take a breath and realize that what they are actually doing has more to do with male bonding, and can decide if they'd rather find a way to express that without involving a third-party.
Third, if you want to tell someone something is bad, but don't understand what it's function is, why should they listen to you?
 

oagboghi2

Member
This I agree.



This is someone butthurt.
"OMG guys, why do you care about things I don't care about. Stop having the wrong opinion." :pie_eyeroll:

I mean, the happy go lucky middle panel is totally what most people here look like, pretty much campaigning for the guy's head on a pitchfork (with the whole call for a boycott based on that one person being an extension of this) because "fuck she's hot" (loudly while staring) was changed to "smile for me"! Riiiiight. I thought the first panel was gonna be about the people who make a mountain out of the flat field this barely-change is, talking about how such small changes are just the beginning and if they suck it up we're all doomed and all. Whatever his intent and inspiration to change one line to an equivalent, the actual change is a whole lot of nothing and it doesn't come across as either pandering or educational but hey, it was brought to our attention this guy felt moved about one of the struggles of the modern woman so he should be eliminated from our games :messenger_grinning_sweat:
How about they just translate what is in the game? Why are you pretending like that isn't an option.

i9f he can't do his job, than he should do something else
 
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Lastyou1

Banned
Catcalling di per sé is an offensive, slang-ish word that any official person attached to a professional studio of any kind would better avoid, especially the PR department.


With that be said, I don't know who this guy is and who he believes to be. But for sure I don't need to be educated about anything from him and it's not up to him educate anyone else on politics.

I guess I will skip for the first time a YAKUZA game.
 

bitbydeath

Gold Member
Funny thing is, cat calling is not "bad". It's complex behavior.
According to evolutionary biologists, it likely has more to do with male bonding and in-group signalling than any legitimate sexual strategy.

I agree to a point. The term is so broad they basically state don’t talk or interact with others in public. Obviously the sexual harassment side is bad but talking or even beeping your horn was just added by uglies/fatties that are jealous of not receiving the same level of compliments.
 
So exactly the antithesis of what obsidian is doing for Outer Worlds.

Watch now how twitter applauds this wokeness to educate. Games like this will be avoided by me like the plauge, maybe the game is good, maybe the message is good, but going about it this way guarantees I'm not going to play it
This is coming from the game with the twisted Trio. Professor Panties, ASS CATCHEM and one other. Japan pls stay WACKY
 

zenspider

Member
I agree to a point. The term is so broad they basically state don’t talk or interact with others in public. Obviously the sexual harassment side is bad but talking or even beeping your horn was just added by uglies/fatties that are jealous of not receiving the same level of compliments.

In effect, I'd err on the side of 'don't', but I'd be lying if I said when I've been with groups of dudes travelling that we didn't talk crazy amounts of shit in the van and hoot and holler and oogle in public, and we had one 'proto-woke" dude and we blasted him too. I had 'deeper' discussions about that kind of behavior at times too, but I digress...
Maybe we got caught out sometimes, and maybe we made people feel uncomfortable or vulnerable.
I think it's a trade-off. I don't want to make anyone unduly uncomfortable, but I also want to goof off with my friends - especially travel companions.

I think you're right though: the battle is for behavior in the public space. Maybe it's the old punk rocker in me, but fuck the public. To paraphrase Peep Show: these are the people that listen to Coldplay and voted for the Nazis.
Conceding that battleground to people who want to feel unaffected by interactions with other people shouldn't be able to win those fights so handily with one-sided reasoning and zero understanding or compassion for the realities. We are only beginning to see the unforseen consequences of public male emasculation over the last few decades. Somehow things were worse before, but yet there were more gentility in public.

The public cannot be a "safe space" for authoritarian cowards just as much as it can't be a wild west amoral free-for-all. Sometimes people hurt your feelings or make you feel bad and you got to realize maybe it wasn't about you at all - they're not extras in your movie.

...geez, I must be in a mood!
/rant
 
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renzolama

Member
This is fucking retarded. Does anyone living in the real word really think asking someone to smile is that bad? I've seen nutjobs liken it to sexual assault...which is just frankly ludicrous. The guy responsible should be reprimanded for that; it's his job to localize, not change the meaning or message of scenes in order to inject his retarded politics into the game.

I agree that the guy responsible is going outside the bounds of his job and should be held accountable, but yes telling some random stranger on the street that they should acknowledge your unasked for input and smile and/or thank you is fucking obnoxious and passive aggressive. Those guys are creepy douchebags regardless of the issue of the localization idiot. That being said, the vast majority of the video otherwise is pretty harmless flirtation.
 
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It's not like the whole game revolves around that scene alone, so I think to be that outraged, you need to be a really special snowflake.
If a person is not doing his job, he should called out as such and not be rewarded for it.

Doesn’t matter if it’s just one scene. He did not do his job. Period.
 

Jon Neu

Banned
I mean, the happy go lucky middle panel is totally what most people here look like, pretty much campaigning for the guy's head on a pitchfork (with the whole call for a boycott based on that one person being an extension of this) because "fuck she's hot" (loudly while staring) was changed to "smile for me"! Riiiiight. I thought the first panel was gonna be about the people who make a mountain out of the flat field this barely-change is, talking about how such small changes are just the beginning and if they suck it up we're all doomed and all. Whatever his intent and inspiration to change one line to an equivalent, the actual change is a whole lot of nothing and it doesn't come across as either pandering or educational but hey, it was brought to our attention this guy felt moved about one of the struggles of the modern woman so he should be eliminated from our games :messenger_grinning_sweat:

Not only did he changed the original work of someone else to fulfill his narcissism and his political agenda, but also is happy to tell the world that he changed that to educate gamers and males.

He is a virtue signalling grandstanding asshole that deserves every criticism for appropriating other people's work and trying to use it to further his political beliefs and his ego.

We don't fucking care if he felt "moved" about the "struggles of the modern woman". It's not his game, don't change it to furhter your personal and political agenda, asshole.
 

Paracelsus

Member
If you read the text of the interview but you don't read the name of the person, he sounds like a woman. Also, that catcalling video sure was packed full with gamers.
 
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gela94

Member
Maybe I'm stupid and need education(please game translators make me smaaart!!) but how is that change education when before it portrayed reality better? But what a guy so full of himself that HE thinks he needs to educate men.. unbelievable. This kind of things should get you fired!
 
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ExpandKong

Banned
Maybe I'm supid and need education(please game translators make me smaaart!!) but how is that change education when before it portrayed reality better? But what a guy so full of himself that HE thinks he needs to educate men.. unbelievable. This kind of things should get you fired!

But he’s woke and we’re a joke.
 
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Kazza

Member
That whole New York cat-calling video was bullshit. They had to do some hilarious back-tracking when it was pointed out that it was all non-white guys doing the cat-calling. They later claimed that there were plenty of white guys doing it too, but that they just never managed to record it on camera :pie_eyeroll:

That said, there's some Era-level outrage fanning going on in this thread: people calling on the translator to be fired, boycotting the game, saying they are done with Sega....And all because they changed "Fuck, she's hot!" to "Smile for me" (not to mention the fact that you have the choice for the more direct translation from the Japanese, which keeps it as "Fuck, she's hot"

Come on, we're better than this.

Wokalization?

Ok, that was good :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
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The concept isn't wrong, but it's not the localization producer job to educate people. It's bad that people feel entitled to change other people's work to follow their idea of good and bad.
Can we justify hiding the representation of the bad things of reality?

Also, I'm the only one that thinks that "smile for me" is creepy as hell? Ahah
 

Saruhashi

Banned


The thing that immediately strikes me about the video is that you would be fucking wrecked if you spent 10 hours walking at that pace, in those clothes, over that kind of surface.

Unless you are routinely going on such walks you would be looking at chaffing, blisters (seriously your feet would be fucked) and the obvious ones like exhaustion, dehydration and whatnot. The "10 hours of silently walking" things is bullshit. In the night-time shots, which I assume are towards the end of 10 hours, she doesn't look like someone who has probably just walked about 40 to 50 miles (basically 1.5 to 2 marathons). If they have the same camera person for the whole time too? Nah, I'm calling bullshit.

If it is legit though then all that for "100+ incidents of street harassment"? Stupid.
In effect all they have shown is that street harassment does indeed happen.
You could have just done that with a 3 hour walk surely (since they claim they are averaging 10 instances per hour they'd be able to capture the 30ish instances shown on the video in 3 hours).

The request for donations at the end? Hmmm... I wonder do non-profits pay their staff or would they be volunteers only? Seems like a good way to invent a job that then pays you a salary. Donate to my non-profit. I will pay myself a salary with the donations though.

I think at least we can agree that catcalling and harassment are bad things? I think we can agree that they exist? These guys really need donations to raise awareness? I'm guessing they made a few hundred thousand dollars from this video and I'm also guessing some of that was used to pay themselves salaries.

New York City has a population of around 8.6 million people. How many people would she realistically encounter on a 10 hour walk? Couple of hundred thousand? Yet only 100 of those actually went out of their way to say something to this lady?

So the very premise of this localization choice is fundamentally rooted in bullshit.

How can something be truly educational when the lesson being taught stems from what is basically a lie?
That's not "education". That's propaganda.

Fucksakes.

The story behind this game is interesting at least.

Game got pulled in Japan in March because one of the actors involved was caught for possession of cocaine. It will be relaunched, with that actor scrubbed, next week.

Now the western version has been changed so it can be more "educational" to western gamers.

Amazing.

How is the "lesson" supposed to work exactly?

"In a weird way, I saw something of an educational experiencehere, because our player base is primarily male — and I do kinda hope that being thrust into the first-person perspective of a woman being catcalled felt a little gross. I hope there’s some level of sympathy for Saori, and on the larger scale, empathy for women who deal with it on a regular basis"

I wonder actually if this is accurate for how videogames actually work from the players perspective.

Like, in the game it feels like it's played for laughs, even with the change. Haha, we've put you into a hot woman's perspective and look dudes are saying how hot you are. OK. Then with the change it's just the same but a dude is asking you to smile.

Isn't it very common for NPCs to say antagonizing or provoking things to the main character?

Me: What a nice day, just minding my own business, out for a lovely stroll, might go up to Bleak Falls Barrow later.
Guard: Cause trouble in Whiterun, and I'll haul you into the Dragonsreach dungeon myself.
Me: Woah, steady on mate. FFS, walking while Breton, amirite you guys?

Me sometime later: *huffs own fart* It's amazing how the experience with the Whiterun guard really educated me, a straight white male, on what people who don't look like me go through on a daily basis. It felt a little gross and now I have a level of empathy on a larger scale.

Me: Let me just drive my axe through this Orcs skull before I burn that Khajiit alive and ressurect that dead Argonian to fight for me. Yay! It's fun to kill and enslave! I've learned fuck all.

It's so fascinating to me that you have all of these games where violence is a key gameplay component, sometimes just mindless and indiscriminate violence, but also they are attempting to moralize on issues that have less real-world impact than actual violence.

Game: Now don't be catcalling women, you little shits.
Player: Got it. I feel all empathetic and shit.
Game: Right, now just go ahead and beat the shit out of those dudes.
Player: Fuck YEA- wait... should I really... it seems excessive.
Game: DO IT! Pick up a bicycle and beat the hell out of that guy NOW!
Player: Can't I like... defuse the situation or something? I don't want to just smash a dude's face in if I can avoid it.
Game: What is this!? Empathy!? Shut your mouth, you little cunt, and do some ultra-violence.

Serious mixed messages from the gaming industry.
 

Closer

Member
If a person is not doing his job, he should called out as such and not be rewarded for it.

Doesn’t matter if it’s just one scene. He did not do his job. Period.

Actually, he did his job, he localized the game. We just don't approve what he did in that scene and that's different.
 
Please don't let this person/team near any Atlus stuff.

Actually, with the little Japanese I do know, I've noticed that the subs in Persona Q2 certainly aren't one to one translations, but it's usually to clarify, condense or expand where there isn't a clean exact translation, never to change the content.

ATLUS is the new SEGA of America so....we are shit out of luck.

Hoping this is a one time thing.
 

ISubZBR

Member
These guys on this video dont look like gamers.

It's Just like The Sega guy trying hit a head while looking a tail. Dont make sense.

These progressive soyboy guys thinks like marxism. Every Man is guilty because some guys do Cat calling in this video. So, every Man need tô be educated.

This is so dumb like thinks The violence in Gta is responsible for violence in Real world.


Btw, this girl is ugly and some guys dont say anything offensive. Some guys was really creepy, but this is the world. We have all Kind of people. Some are weird, some are pervert, some are creepy... The point is: the only guilty for you be creepy is yourself.
 
Doesn't he know that this video was a setup? And well, the only times I have been with people who did "cat calls" they were not "westerners", they were certainly not born in Canada.

Also, a strange thing to notice about the subject, girls who move from places where guys do that kind of thing think guys don't find them attractive at first, they do feel unappreciated (at least this was what my very lefty European females friends told me on multiple occasions).

Obviously some cases really go too far and fall into harassment, some guys are just not tactful, etc. So this is definitely a problem in many situations, you really can make a girl feel threatened quite easily, and this is not good.
 

ruvikx

Banned
There's a very good reason "why" teaching as a profession requires actual diplomas/qualifications (even though standards have dropped catastrophically in recent times). I can't agree with encroachment by pretentious elements in the entertainment/media/advertizing industry who imagine themselves qualified as moralizing educators. Many (no specific names) probably wouldn't want their own lives/decisions/behaviour scrutinized because we'd automatically dismiss their right to preach morality. But it's so easy to shove a political stance into a piece of media & say "I'm educating people".

Personally speaking I want to know who is educating me & what their agenda is/backing is/history is/qualification is before I pay any attention whatsoever.
 
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