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[pawel86ck]

Its difficult to find alot of developer's opinions now, but another one I ran across on the PS2, Xbox, and GC. He supposedly worked on all three, which is something we don't hear much out of it at all. It's usually some exclusive developer which equals PR to me.
Anyway, if you don't like his assessment it can be fake news but if you do, it can be gospel. Either way he seems pretty respected on the forum. I provided a link below.



He goes on....




In a nutshell, he felt all the consoles were good in their own way, but the Gamecube was over engineered and wouldn't call it more powerful than the ps2 overall. Its interesting that he talks about the polygon count being lower, but I assume this is textured polygons or lit polygons, because the cube could do alot of simple polygons.

Very interesting info on the Gamecube hardware. In that is was an "overreaction" to the N64's limitations. Gamecube's focus on segmented memory being over-engineered makes sense I guess. Look at the prevailing method now with PS4 and XB1, mostly, a large pool of memory with little segmentation, unlike PS3, Gamecube, etc.

He states that the Xbox had a ton of overhead and was underutilized compared to PC games there was a bottleneck but if you spent the time on it, the games could look really good, and I think that's what we've seen in some cases. But it makes me think how much better games could look if they were really pushed.

On the console multiplatform side, I found it interesting speaking about those. The ps2 was the lead platform usually, and all they would do for the Xbox version was higher resolution textures and "call it done." Basically, the Xbox multiplatform advantages we see today could have been greater if optimized. So in both cases, console or PC multiplatforms, the Xbox wasn't really optimized often.


PS2 - Solid, but a pain in the ass.
GC - Good, but over-engineered
Xbox - Great, underutilized


It's just a forum post, but interesting nonetheless

Was GC more or less powerful than PS2? *spawn

I have had a hunch or gut feeling Wii U wouldn't be even as powerful as PS360 practically all along. Usually I would state I believed it would be ~30% more powerful, but I always had that hunch. My hunches are often right and later I wish I'd listened to them. So yes, I believe the report. My...

forum.beyond3d.com

Interesting discussion. People on beyond3d forum suggest GC was really comparable to PS2, and they even consider"factor 5" 20 millon polygons claim a fairy tale (they estimare real numbers around 10 million polygons).

Technical spcifications aside I really think GC games like Metroid Prime 2 or Metal Gear Solid Twin Snakes looks like games that could run on PS2. But I still think GC was more capable compared to PS2, rogue leader used bump mapping, self shadows and cube maps water reflections, and I havent seen so many effects at once on any PS2 game. Rogue Leader looks more like game made with xbox in mind rather than PS2.

 

[Romulus]

Interesting discussion. People on beyond3d forum suggest GC was really comparable to PS2, and they even consider"factor 5" 20 millon polygons claim a fairy tale and they estimare real numbers around 10 million polygons.

Technical spcifications aside to me GC games like Metroid Prime 2 or Metal Gear Solid Twin Snakes really looks like games that could run on PS2. But I still think GC was more capable compared to PS2, rogue leader used bump mapping, self shadows and cube maps water reflections, and I havent seen so many effects at once on PS2.

Yep, Gamecube's top tier games were more impressive to me, but PS2 was a beast in its own right. Actually, the 6th gen was just stacked with great machines. It's really fascinating to see the different strategies. I would have loved to see more out of the Dreamcast.

Xbox just had this unusual combination of raw brute force and really cutting edge techniques with shaders, normal mapping, etc. I would have liked to see it supported another 2-3 years to see what they could have done.

 

[polybius80]

Interesting discussion. People on beyond3d forum suggest GC was really comparable to PS2, and they even consider"factor 5" 20 millon polygons claim a fairy tale (they estimare real numbers around 10 million polygons).

Technical spcifications aside I really think GC games like Metroid Prime 2 or Metal Gear Solid Twin Snakes looks like games that could run on PS2. But I still think GC was more capable compared to PS2, rogue leader used bump mapping, self shadows and cube maps water reflections, and I havent seen so many effects at once on any PS2 game. Rogue Leader looks more like game made with xbox in mind rather than PS2.

also hitman blood money uses normal maps and tons of characters on screen like murder of crows level

 

[Chairman Tickles]

So we've reached the point in this discussion where the Ps2 is now magically equivalent or even more powerful than the gamecube?



Resident Evil 4 is living breathing proof of how much of a downgrade graphics undertake when they shift from GC to PS2. And it's not like it was a quick and dirty rushed port.

These threads never fail to entertain at the very least.

The Ps2 was more comparable to the dreamcast, released a year earlier.

 

[Romulus]

So we've reached the point in this discussion where the Ps2 is now magically equivalent or even more powerful than the gamecube?



Resident Evil 4 is living breathing proof of how much of a downgrade graphics undertake when they shift from GC to PS2. And it's not like it was a quick and dirty rushed port.

These threads never fail to entertain at the very least.

The Ps2 was more comparable to the dreamcast, released a year earlier.

Using an example of an engine designed from the ground up to work on GC, and declaring the ps2 port as a living breathing example is a stretch. It was still a port, ports are sometimes worse on superior machines. Not saying ps2 was equal or superior to GC, just saying. Back then, the heavily custom architecture made things uncertain, unreliable especially in ps2's case, which was by far the most difficult machine to code for, perhaps one of the worst of modern times.

One of the most touted numbers about RE4 on Gamecube was Leon's character model that feature 10k polygons, well, there are games on ps2 that have reached this number, so that's not impossible.

My guess is the designed RE4 to work around the GameCube's unique memory allocation, which was a complete nightmare for the ps2 version and there wasn't room to do much, but still not worth rebuilding from scratch to fully utilize ps2. What was worth the effort was that PS2's massive userbase, and 95% wouldn't know or care about the differences. Ship it.

Again, not saying the ps2 is more capable, but I'm almost certain a really different looking version could have been made if the time and money for a custom PS2 version was spent.

 

[Esppiral]

But the same can be applied the other way around, 99 of games were designed with the ps2 in mind and were just copi pasted to other consoles, for example MGS2, and that one is used to justify the superiority of ps2 over Xbox.....

It doesn't matter if the ps2 can render characters with more polys than Leon, there are more objects on screen, other games on ps2 may have characters with more polys but the environments are simpler.

I mean the character from Sport Jam I posted a few posts back is done with more polys than many ps3/360 game characters ( for example Alan Wake is lower poly that that) and that means nothing.

Re4 was downgraded to fit with the ps2 limitations, period.

I can't believe people is arguing that....

 

[pawel86ck]

also hitman blood money uses normal maps and tons of characters on screen like murder of crows level

Hitman looks very impressive, normal maps, dynamic shadows and something like 50-100 characters on the screen. If PS2 could render all these effects at once maybe even it could run Rogue Leader after all. I thought PS2 wasnt capable of such visuals. It looks like that developer quoted by Romulus was right after all and PS2 GC were indeed as capable but the problem was it was much harder to code for PS2, so developers could get better results on GC easier. And BTW. If my memory is correct burnout 2 on PS2 also use bump mapping and runs at 60fps, it was my first game on PS2 and I was very impressed back then.

 

[Romulus]

But the same can be applied the other way around, 99 of games were designed with the ps2 in mind and were just copi pasted to other consoles, for example MGS2, and that one is used to justify the superiority of ps2 over Xbox.....

It doesn't matter if the ps2 can render characters with more polys than Leon, there are more objects on screen, other games on ps2 may have characters with more polys but the environments are simpler.

I mean the character from Sport Jam I posted a few posts back is done with more polys than many ps3/360 game characters ( for example Alan Wake is lower poly that that) and that means nothing.

Re4 was downgraded to fit with the ps2 limitations, period.

I can't believe people is arguing that....

I think you're ignoring my complete objectivity here. I never said either way.

There's no definitive benchmark for PS2 versus Gamecube in polygon counts. And, ports are ports. It's possible Gamecube can render more polygons onscreen. I just know that ports aren't always representative of capabilities. In the same way MSG2 means absolutely nothing in terms of what the Xbox could do, how is the Re4 port some perfect example of what PS2 can do?

Re4 was downgraded to fit with the ps2 limitations, period.

Sure but there's a difference between limitations when porting an engine and building from the ground up. Ports typically look better on the lead platform anyway and porting over to a notorously unfriendly dev machine like Ps2? That's two huge strikes. Still doesn't mean a custom-built ps2 RE4 from the ground up would match Gamecube, but it's my belief after reading this thread that it would have come alot closer.

In terms of Leon's figure of 10k, I didn't start that debate, and I never said that's all that mattered in terms of render load, I absolutely understand that the entire screen is what's important. The Leon figure was touted by media outlets and forum-goers as a benchmark.
But even then, can we say without a shadow of a doubt that no game on ps2 can match RE4 polys onscreen? I mean that's basically the argument most were making. Not me.


And I think that developer's words have some merit, and I think while his comments are very revealing about his knowledge on the said platforms, it is bizarre to pick one thing out as untrue because it doesn't fit a narrative or perceived belief. I mean, how many developers have talked about working on all three consoles? A handful? I guess he could be lying or mistaken, but if he is a dev that worked on all 3, who else knows more than him? No one in this thread for sure. Not me.

Also, who is arguing exactly? I'm not. It's just discussion.

 

[JordanN]

So we've reached the point in this discussion where the Ps2 is now magically equivalent or even more powerful than the gamecube?



Resident Evil 4 is living breathing proof of how much of a downgrade graphics undertake when they shift from GC to PS2. And it's not like it was a quick and dirty rushed port.

These threads never fail to entertain at the very least.

The Ps2 was more comparable to the dreamcast, released a year earlier.

I don't think the PS2 was more powerful, but I don't think Gamecube was that far ahead of it either.

Once again, we saw 5+ years of what the Wii could do, and despite it being an overclocked Gamecube, most games still looked very last gen or "PS2 like".

If the Wii had used a similar GPU that was in the OG Xbox or even the one in the 3DS, then MAYBE those claims wouldn't have happended.

You can even check out Neogaf's original thread for Wii screenshots and a lot of people kept comparing the graphics with PS2

Wii Screen Shot Thread (56k no)

I think Excite Truck is going to be the Suprise Hit. Just you watch, word of mouth on that one. Yeah, I just love it. This game is so furious... And it was the best racing game at E3, wasn't it ? Gran Turismo was behind.

www.neogaf.com

Not at all trying to troll here, I think Zelda looks really awesome, this is just an observation...

I think the PS2 game looks about on par with Zelda in these very comparable pics.
In-game, Zelda definitely looks better than FF12 though.

Why are there PS2 pics in a Wii thread. GTFO.

i can't believe most of you peeps here are swallowing theses crappy graphics...it soo pathic they cant't even reach XBOX 1 quality graphics.

Now compare the reactions some people had with the 3DS. People thought it was visually closer to the HD twins.

Nintendo 3DS Game Footage Video Reel

Mario Kart looks great and exactly what people should expect from the system. People are fucking mental.

www.neogaf.com

People who think Mario Kart looks bad probably don't even play Mario Kart. It looks like Mario Kart would on a next gen system. I dig it.

Resident Evil looks fucking amazing. Hell, we'd be more likely to see a port of RE5 on 3DS before we would ever see it on Wii based on these movies.

Ridge Racer looks like crap, but it's based on the iPhone version.

Monkey Ball returning puts a smile on my face

Capcom is going to stomp everyone early on. It pays to have a capable engine apparently. Thank's for MT Framwork. If they license that thing for the 3DS they will make a mint.

They are almost there....

 

[Romulus]

Hitman looks very impressive, normal maps, dynamic shadows and something like 50-100 characters on the screen. If PS2 could render all these effects at once maybe even it could run Rogue Leader after all. I thought PS2 wasnt capable of such visuals. It looks like that developer quoted by Romulus was right after all and PS2 GC were indeed as capable but the problem was it was much harder to code for PS2, so developers could get better results on GC easier. And BTW. If my memory is correct burnout 2 on PS2 also use bump mapping and runs at 60fps, it was my first game on PS2 and I was very impressed back then.

The Matrix and Hitman are pulling off some cool tricks, but awfully soft and jaggy in those vids, sort of diminishes the effect of the normal map, but still impressive. I forgot about Hitman, I watched a video a long time ago about how they pulled off all those NPCSs. Amazing for the time.

 

[Poop!]

I had all three systems at the time but ended up buying all my games for the Xbox since it ran in 480p/720p and didn't need a memory card so I never had to worry about running out of space.

Cube and PS2 were for exclusives only.

 

[Dane]

also hitman blood money uses normal maps and tons of characters on screen like murder of crows level

Blood Money on PS2 was damn impressive, i've expected that it would be chopped up to eleven, god how I was wrong, its the same game with almost intact graphics. Of course it was actually a project born for the sixth generation that got a 360 version, but it had the most detailed visuals i've seen on the console, even the reload animations had the weapons magazine to be detached and inserted a new one.

So we've reached the point in this discussion where the Ps2 is now magically equivalent or even more powerful than the gamecube?



Resident Evil 4 is living breathing proof of how much of a downgrade graphics undertake when they shift from GC to PS2. And it's not like it was a quick and dirty rushed port.

These threads never fail to entertain at the very least.

The Ps2 was more comparable to the dreamcast, released a year earlier.

RE4 was the game with the best graphics hands down on GC, the thing was that developers almost never used its full potential, compared to the Xbox were many games just had a resolution bump and a better framerate, althrough some had actually a vast amount of upgrade such as the Ubisoft titles, the Gamecube was the opposite, it either ran equal or worse than the PS2 version overall, NFS Most Wanted and Splinter Cell Double Agent are examples, they lack the extra effects and have worse textures.

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

Well it could be alot of the shortfalls on ps2 were because of its tools and design, not power. It's one of the biggest pains the ass of all time development wise. Maybe re4 is a good example but I would guess there are exclusive games on ps2 with more polygons. Jak 3 etc.

The game engine used for Jak was, for scripting anyway, used in PS3s The Last of Us. The engine was so impressive Sony was going to let other devs use it, but to their dismay it sad written by NDs MIT guy and no one else really understood it. At least not without any real documentation.

 

[Romulus]

I'm about three hours into Riddick, this is really incredible how well it holds up today. If the resolution was locked at 720p and I had never played it before, I would be convinced it could be a 360/PS3 game. I got to a point where the framerate tanked and nothing was going on, but it recovered quickly. Its very smooth overall and despite its advanced tech, it runs better than most fps of that era. That huge fps drop was only one occasion though and maybe it was streaming data idk. I remember reading a Eurogamer article stating how it looked impossibly good on the Xbox.

 

[Doczu]

I'm about three hours into Riddick, this is really incredible how well it holds up today. If the resolution was locked at 720p and I had never played it before, I would be convinced it could be a 360/PS3 game. I got to a point where the framerate tanked and nothing was going on, but it recovered quickly. Its very smooth overall and despite its advanced tech, it runs better than most fps of that era. That huge fps drop was only one occasion though and maybe it was streaming data idk. I remember reading a Eurogamer article stating how it looked impossibly good on the Xbox.

Riddick is one of the best movie tie-ins. It's in the top with games like Punisher, IMO.
The great graphics are backed with good gameplay. It wasn't a run of the mill cash grab.

 

[Romulus]

Riddick is one of the best movie tie-ins. It's in the top with games like Punisher, IMO.
The great graphics are backed with good gameplay. It wasn't a run of the mill cash grab.

That's the other thing that is surprising me is how good the game actually is on top of the visuals.

 

[Tesseract]

blood money was the first next gen game to blow me away, stellar normals for the era

 

[Doczu]

All the Chaos Theory praise in this thread. What about Double Agent? IMO the 6th gen was better console version. The visuals may not have been on the same level as Chaos Theory, but it still looked miles better than the PS2 or GC version

 

[Esppiral]

Coming from CT, DA felt like a downgrade, it is a great game anyway.

 

[nkarafo]

Once again, we saw 5+ years of what the Wii could do, and despite it being an overclocked Gamecube, most games still looked very last gen or "PS2 like".

Gonna disagree on that one. The best looking Wii titles are a pretty obvious jump over PS2.

Games like Metroid Prime 3 and Silent Hill: Shattered Memories (with it's vastly inferior PS2 port) make the case.

I would even argue the Wii was at the same level as the XBOX, if not better.

 

[V4skunk]

You actually are still blocked but I looked at the ignored content.

It's frustrating to me because I actually am neutral in this comparison, and from the very beginning never said the cube was better at everything ; you can check.

And nope, i said there was more than one room in memory, the other guy said it has one room at a time. We both moved on as it seemed to be a misunderstanding in communication.

But most of you are starting from "no way Xbox is the best I'll show him" instead of hmm maybe cube has advantages, maybe not, but let's check.

I have invested too much in this thread, that's for sure. I'll take a break.

Same here, I have provided the facts that GC is a polygon pushing beast! Links to 15 year old forum console wars with developer quotes. Numerous videos in 60fps.
It is hilarious.
GC has the edge in geometry, raw polygon pushing power. While xbox had a state of the art gpu and a full directx library of advanced special effects.

 

[JordanN]

Gonna disagree on that one. The best looking Wii titles are a pretty obvious jump over PS2.

Games like Metroid Prime 3 and Silent Hill: Shattered Memories (with it's vastly inferior PS2 port) make the case.

I would even argue the Wii was at the same level as the XBOX, if not better.

Ok, but I said your average Wii game did not look much better than PS2.

This was all from the first year alone and they all looked identical to what the PS2 could do.

The best looking game at Wii's launch wasn't even an exclusive. It was a Gamecube port.

That's how bad the Wii was.

 

[V4skunk]

PS2 could outperform xbox hardware in geometry haha, sure multiplatforms proves that. Man you live in a fantasy world but at least I know you are here just to troll.

Since when have multiplats been a measure of a consoles power? Lol just lol.
Edit: Check my post history to my links to the 2004-5 arstechnica console war. Read the entire threads.
Rogue Leader 21 million polygons a second in real time, in game.
You idiots do not have a clue.

 

[nkarafo]

That's how bad the Wii was.

I tend to compare best looking games VS best looking games when i want to see which console is the most capable. So i ignore the average looking games.

Silent Hill: Shattered Memories (the best looking Wii title IMO) is just ridiculous. The level of detail is very high, there is a huge amount of geometry in the environments (bigger than anything i have seen on PS2 and GG, posibly the XBOX as well) with fully 3D modeled details on every tiny object a room should have, textures can be high res enough to read anything you want from the various signs, and posters themselves by zooming on them instead of pressing the action button to bring a separate text, it has all kinds of impressive visual effects like how the ice looks, some of the best mirror effects ever and how everything casts real time shadows, including the snow particle effects (that last part is simply amazing and something i haven't seen in other games ever since).

I would say this particular game is above what the XBOX can do.

 

[Alexios]

Gonna disagree on that one. The best looking Wii titles are a pretty obvious jump over PS2.

Games like Metroid Prime 3 and Silent Hill: Shattered Memories (with it's vastly inferior PS2 port) make the case.

I would even argue the Wii was at the same level as the XBOX, if not better.

It's obvious with games from the same series too. Monster Hunter Tri looks way superior to 2 in every way while both used all the same performance tricks (self contained areas and what not). Monster/character polycounts, area details, textures, animations, effects, everything was ramped up.


Just posted the review as something showing various scenes, it's hardly the best represetnation of the game or anything close to that. And of course nothing touches the Galaxy games, a wonderful rendering pipeline matched with impeccable artistic quality.

 

[Dane]

Lil trivia, NFS Carbon had two ironic versions in terms of the quality expected, the Wii used the 6th gen version and it had the best textures, the PS3 version was a launch title and yet, it was the best version even compared to the PC, the effects were better and it ran at 720p 60 FPS.

 

[nkarafo]

SH: Shattered Memories - Wii

Sample of the level of detail/geometry/lighting:

In this gif you can get a glimpse of the snow particles interracting with the flashlight, being lit up and casting real time shadows. I can't find a better gif unfortunately.

It's the craziest effect i saw during that gen.

Can't find a pic of the way mirrors look. Can someone help?


It got a PS2 and PSP port and obviously got butchered in the process.

 

[Vorg]

Since when have multiplats been a measure of a consoles power? Lol just lol.
Edit: Check my post history to my links to the 2004-5 arstechnica console war. Read the entire threads.
Rogue Leader 21 million polygons a second in real time, in game.
You idiots do not have a clue.

You should probably dial it down a notch. You're getting way too worked up, bud.

 

[pawel86ck]

Since when have multiplats been a measure of a consoles power? Lol just lol.

IMO Splinter Cell games shows exactly the difference between Xbox and other consoles. Xbox version had way superior shadows thanks to shadow buffers tech build into xbox GPU and because they couldnt emulate these detiled shadows with good results they have use much inferior shadows on GC and PS2. Xbox had shaders and they have use it on many textures to add realism and depth and they were force to make compromises on GC and PS2 versions. Finally thanks to HDD and more RAM on xbox they could build much bigger and more detailed levels.

Same here, I have provided the facts that GC is a polygon pushing beast! Links to 15 year old forum console wars with developer quotes.

That one from 2002? You should know the best looking xbox games werent even out yet. On the other hand Romulus have linked thread from 2012 where one develoer who worked on all 3 consoles has said GC wasnt a polygon pushing beast like you try to suggest, in fact according to him it was the opposite because GC could do max 10 million polygons in real gaming scenario. Later on people even suggested "factor 5" 20 million polygon claims was a marketing fairy tale.

I'm about three hours into Riddick, this is really incredible how well it holds up today. If the resolution was locked at 720p and I had never played it before, I would be convinced it could be a 360/PS3 game. I got to a point where the framerate tanked and nothing was going on, but it recovered quickly. Its very smooth overall and despite its advanced tech, it runs better than most fps of that era. That huge fps drop was only one occasion though and maybe it was streaming data idk. I remember reading a Eurogamer article stating how it looked impossibly good on the Xbox.

On CRT or small 720p LCD Riddick looks great at 480p, but at larger screen you have to sit far from the screen to really enjoy picture quality.

Xbox version runs at dynamic 480p, but there is PC version however, so you can run Riddick in 720p and higher resolutions.

More screenshots in the spoiler

Spoiler: more screenshots

Splinter Cell 3 at 720p

But some games like for example Far Cry 1 looks like a totally different game on PC, unfortunately not every xbox game was ported to PC

 

[Romulus]

Same here, I have provided the facts that GC is a polygon pushing beast! Links to 15 year old forum console wars with developer quotes. Numerous videos in 60fps.
It is hilarious.
GC has the edge in geometry, raw polygon pushing power. While xbox had a state of the art gpu and a full directx library of advanced special effects.

No wonder this claim with Rogue Squadron has been picked apart for years, I never actually read it until now. Not only is this an estimate, its an estimate for an incomplete game from an exclusive developer(which have been known to lie)

LucasArts/Factor 5: If we would start counting the polygons now the game wouldn't be done, but we estimate most scenes at 12-15 million polygons per second. The version being shown in Europe is quite a performance increase in the Hoth level compared to previous showings

All these years I thought it was somewhat more concrete than that.



Later on, they also said it was 20 million, then said it was only using on 50% of the gamecube's power?

Then why is it dropping frames on during explosions? This game is not locked 60fps, and the areas tested are very simple compared to later in the game for example. In that short clip of 5min, I saw two dips to 50fps in simple scenes.

Rogue Leader Chat Transcript - IGN

Yesterday LucasArts held an internet chat for its website members with the two primary forces behind Star Wars Rogue Leader: Rogue Squadron 2. President of Factor 5 and Director of Rogue Leader, Julian Eggebrecht, joined in with LucastArts Rogue Leader Producer, Brett Tosti, to talk answer fans'...

www.ign.com

Bottomline, factor 5 is all over the place with these claims. 12-15 million, then 20 million, then 50% of Gamecube's power. lol, makes no sense at all. Might all well be a 100 million, no one can prove otherwise.

 

[Alexios]

Then why is it dropping frames on during explosions? This game is not locked 60fps, and the areas tested are very simple compared to later in the game for example. In that short clip of 5min, I saw two dips to 50fps in simple scenes.

Death star surface/trench is far from the simplest terrain with all that polygonal detail on it. Natural terrain heightmaps are simpler. Also did you see how many ships, enemy and friendly, fly around and dogfight? And all the laser fire (much of it lighting stuff up)?

My GTX1080 drops frames in the Devil May Cry 5 title screen when the logo first shows up and other such instances. Must be shit. Lol.

Dips happen in 95% of "locked 60" games, it's hardly worth a mention.

 

[Chozofication_]

SH: Shattered Memories - Wii

Sample of the level of detail/geometry/lighting:

In this gif you can get a glimpse of the snow particles interracting with the flashlight, being lit up and casting real time shadows. I can't find a better gif unfortunately.

It's the craziest effect i saw during that gen.

Can't find a pic of the way mirrors look. Can someone help?


It got a PS2 and PSP port and obviously got butchered in the process.

Wii is 100% the more capable machine vs. Xbox. Hardware features aside, their chips are comparable in what they can do per clock cycle.

However memory wise - it's 88mbs, of 6.4gb/s +2.6gb/s (gddr3 plus 1tsram) plus edram (17gb/s plus framebuffer tricks) vs a single pool of 64 at 6.4gb/s.

Coupled with a 243mhz front side bus for Wii, vs xbox's 133mhz.

Silent hill also runs at 60fps

 

[Romulus]

Death star surface/trench is far from the simplest terrain with all that polygonal detail on it. Natural terrain heightmaps are simpler. Also did you see how many ships, enemy and friendly, fly around and dogfight? And all the laser fire (much of it lighting stuff up)?

My GTX1080 drops frames in the Devil May Cry 5 title screen when the logo first shows up and other such instances. Must be shit. Lol.

Dips happen in 95% of "locked 60" games, it's hardly worth a mention.

The Death Star looks very plain other than the detailed towers. Simple, low res polygons everywhere. Later in the game its far more chaotic.

Why does your GTX1080 have anything to do with an optimized console exclusive? PC's aren't optimized in the same way because of varying hardware. You could have a PC from the year 2030 and still drop frames.

I understand dips happen, and your 95% claim is likely an underestimate, that has absolutely nothing to do with my point.

 

[Chozofication_]

I've heard you want more of them wireframes

Try to find a game on Gamecube that pushes this amount of polys on screen,

Hint: you won't.

For one thing there's no numbers there, but they look detailed.

I have a 2gb Celeron laptop so I can't post re4, rogue squadron or star fox wireframe shots for comparison. Care to do so?

 

[Chozofication_]

So we've reached the point in this discussion where the Ps2 is now magically equivalent or even more powerful than the gamecube?



Resident Evil 4 is living breathing proof of how much of a downgrade graphics undertake when they shift from GC to PS2. And it's not like it was a quick and dirty rushed port.

These threads never fail to entertain at the very least.

The Ps2 was more comparable to the dreamcast, released a year earlier.

It is quite sad.

 

[nkarafo]

Silent hill also runs at 60fps

True, but only when the flashlight is OFF

 

[Chozofication_]

True, but only when the flashlight is OFF

Hmm i actually own a copy and played it a few months ago, it definitely hits 60 with the flashlight.

Might be double buffered though, I'll check it later.

 

[Chozofication_]

Skyward sword is actually really impressive. Galaxy 2, prime 3, monster Hunter tri (monster Hunter 3 ultimate on wii u has less polys due to it being 3ds port) donkey kong country returns... Wii games brought the visual goods that's for sure.

My only nitpick with Wii is that they didn't add more eDRAM for the framebuffer ; with 1mb more the image quality would no longer have dithering and it would help bring more effects too.

Yes it could've been more powerful overall in the HD era it came to, but given that cube, Xbox and even ps2 and dreamcast games can still look great it wasnt that big a deal.

 

[Esppiral]

Wait people saying the ps2 is in the same league in terms of power as the Wii? Ok, time to pack it up

 

[JordanN]

Wait people saying the ps2 is in the same league in terms of power as the Wii? Ok, time to pack it up

I never said that.
I said on average, the games looked barely better than PS2.

And we have proof of that. Check out when the Wii was popular on Neogaf, and people were saying the games looked PS2 quality and not next gen.

Wii Screen Shot Thread (56k no)

I think Excite Truck is going to be the Suprise Hit. Just you watch, word of mouth on that one. Yeah, I just love it. This game is so furious... And it was the best racing game at E3, wasn't it ? Gran Turismo was behind.

www.neogaf.com

It shouldn't be a surprise that overclocking 1999 hardware was only going to give you results that was comparable to other early 2000 systems.

Now look at something like 3DS, where the GPU may have not been more powerful than what was in Wii, but it was updated 5-6 years later to do things the Wii would have struggled natively with.

You did not see character models that were this detailed on the Wii, and this was a 3DS launch title.

 

[Alexios]

I never said that.
I said on average, the games looked barely better than PS2.

And we have proof of that. Check out when the Wii was popular on Neogaf, and people were saying the games looked PS2 quality and not next gen.

Wii Screen Shot Thread (56k no)

I think Excite Truck is going to be the Suprise Hit. Just you watch, word of mouth on that one. Yeah, I just love it. This game is so furious... And it was the best racing game at E3, wasn't it ? Gran Turismo was behind.

www.neogaf.com

It shouldn't be a surprise that overclocking 1999 hardware was only going to give you results that was comparable to other early 2000 systems.

Now look at something like 3DS, where the GPU may have not been more powerful than what was in Wii, but it was updated 5-6 years after to do things the Wii would have struggled natively with.

You did not see character models that were this detailed on the Wii, and this was a 3DS launch title.

You link to a post discussing a cube game though, not Wii. And Wii was never popular on GAF or any media/forums outside Nintendo fan circles. Besides, what do I care what "people" thought looks like PS2? It's clearly way beyond that.

Metroid Prime 3 as mentioned shows that well enough but there are plenty other games like Red Steel 2. Or pretty much any exclusive. Or ports like the COD titles which might look pretty rough but at least they managed to port them.

 

[JordanN]

You link to a post discussing a cube game though, not Wii. And Wii was never popular on GAF or any media/forums outside Nintendo fan circles. Besides, what do I care what "people" thought looks like PS2? It's clearly way beyond that.

Twilight Princess was ported to the Wii dude. It was a launch title even.

And lol at the last part of your post. I remember the internet during 2006 ~ 2012. Wii fanboys where everywhere. The system sold 100 million units, why wouldn't they exist?

 

[Alexios]

You really need that spelled out? Seriously? Honestly? The fuck? Here goes then, I know it was ported to Wii. It was still a gamecube game. How does it show anything about the Wii's power compared to the PS2 when it's a cube game port?

 

[JordanN]

You really need that spelled out? Seriously? I know it was ported to Wii. It was still a gamecube game. How does it show anything about the Wii's power compared to the PS2 when it's a cube game port?

Because the Wii was only 50% more powerful than Gamecube which itself was only slightly stronger than PS2.

Even if it did get a game that was built from the ground up, it wasn't going to blow it away (which it didn't. Skyward Sword came later and was only a tiny notch above what Gamecube could have done).

 

[Romulus]

There's some fascinating ports out there between the ps2, Wii, and even Xbox.





Of course, ports aren't always indictive to power. What a nightmare having to port to all those machines though, can you imagine?

 

[nkarafo]

I never said that.
I said on average, the games looked barely better than PS2.

And we have proof of that. Check out when the Wii was popular on Neogaf, and people were saying the games looked PS2 quality and not next gen.

Wii Screen Shot Thread (56k no)

I think Excite Truck is going to be the Suprise Hit. Just you watch, word of mouth on that one. Yeah, I just love it. This game is so furious... And it was the best racing game at E3, wasn't it ? Gran Turismo was behind.

www.neogaf.com

It shouldn't be a surprise that overclocking 1999 hardware was only going to give you results that was comparable to other early 2000 systems.

Now look at something like 3DS, where the GPU may have not been more powerful than what was in Wii, but it was updated 5-6 years later to do things the Wii would have struggled natively with.

You did not see character models that were this detailed on the Wii, and this was a 3DS launch title.

That's a 1vs1 fighting game.

These tend to have higher detailed characters compared to other genres, at least they used to.

 

[Alexios]

I don't think anyone in his right mind can say the PS2 can handle games like Galaxy & 2, Prime 3, the Darkside Chronicles, the rough looking Modern Warfare and onwards Call of Duty ports, Sonic Colors, Monster Hunter Tri, Red Steel 2, Shattered Memories, Dead Space Extraction, Xenoblade and tons more without severe cuts. If you just want to argue semantics like what counts to you personally as "another league" or whatever while still admitting it's in fact far better, since you say it's quite a bit more powerful than the GC you also say was already more powerful than the PS2, whatever.

 

[Chozofication_]

Street fighter on 3ds drops frames and looks like shit JordanN go back to politics

 

[nkarafo]

Even if it did get a game that was built from the ground up, it wasn't going to blow it away (which it didn't. Skyward Sword came later and was only a tiny notch above what Gamecube could have done).

I get my Silent Hill example didn't impress you.

 

[Romulus]

Do most people consider Wii 7th gen or 6th?