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Jason Schreier from Kotaku reiterates that devs do not like Lockhart, "significantly less RAM"

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
You don't need a $300 box to stream stuff. In fact, people who spend $300 on a box are not going to want to stream stuff. Something like Project xCloud would stream on a million devices people already own, including their Xbox Ones. So I don't think this Lockhart business has anything to do with streaming.

They do have a vision. You nail it in step 3. They want Xbox to be a service. They've said it over and over, the whole company is transitioning to services. To do that, they need people on the platform and subscribed to GamePass. Locking out "next gen" only to people who can afford a $500 box gets in the way of selling GamePass, despite the fact that everyone here is willing to pay for a $500 box. It makes a lot of sense for MS to offer a wide range of hardware at varying price levels, and also giving access with high-end PC boxes that beat everything.

The key is GamePass, not hardware specs and definitely not exclusives. Hardcore gamers comparing specs or spec rumors are looking at this the wrong way, just like the Xbox shills who got mad when MS announced everything was going to PC same day. Even if PS5 games look better, or the hardware is more powerful, is that going to be a big driver versus $10 a month for 100 games?

The problem with this point is that there's NO WAY Microsoft will profit using this as their main method to continuing the Xbox brand. No chance in hell. $10 a month just isn't enough to support this thing. The price will have to eventually go up to $20-$25 a month (if you really want more of the latest games and good 1st party game support).
 
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NickFire

Member
this doesnt make any sense at all. not even remotely. like, wtf are you talking about? lol you are delusional af what did you smoke, bruh?
What are you on then? Potentially more exclusives makes perfect sense if one eco-system requires a game to run on hardware that cannot support the game.
 

Sophist

Member
Sony may target 4K while Microsoft may target 2K which requires significantly less RAM than 4K. One company do sell television while the other doesn't. Never forget that.
 

vpance

Member
This guy loves to pull stuff up his ass. Didnt he also say that devs dont possess dev kit ?

No dev kit meaning no actual hardware with Xbox silicon in it, and devs have been working on regular Windows PCs over the last year. Explains the all the devs being confused with MS silence rumors.
 

diffusionx

Gold Member
The problem with this point is that there's NO WAY Microsoft will profit using this as their main method to continuing the Xbox brand. No chance in hell. $10 a month just isn't enough to support this thing. The price will have to eventually go up to $20-$25 a month (if you really want more of the latest games and good 1st party game support).

Well, I agree with you. I don't see how the numbers make any sense either. But it's clearly what they are pursuing. we might be missing something, or it might be smoke and mirrors.
 
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Shrap

Member
Man, these codenames are cringe generators. Lockhart, Scarlett and worst of all... Anaconda. Blergh.

On topic - Devs don't like Jason Schreier as he has "significantly less testosterone". I wouldn't trust him or any other "journalist" at the moment throwing around all these conflicting rumours.
 

Bernkastel

Ask me about my fanboy energy!
No dev kit meaning no actual hardware with Xbox silicon in it, and devs have been working on regular Windows PCs over the last year. Explains the all the devs being confused with MS silence rumors.
1. They said they started shipping Dev kits during X019
2. Phil tweeted that he is already using Scarlet as his main console.
 

pr0cs

Member
Don't believe it for a second, it makes absolutely no sense to confuse their customers.
They tried and failed badly with the 360 gimp version, they're not going to try that again on a worse level.
If they do they deserve to lose more marketshare this Gen too
 
I don't think anyone has anything to worry about. I believe there's a reason why Microsoft has only revealed Scarlet to the public and not lockhart, they probably wanted to see reactions first before deciding to scrap it or not.

They put in hard work to turn Xbox around, they cannot screw up this E3 or the likely announcement conference before E3.
 

vpance

Member
1. They said they started shipping Dev kits during X019
2. Phil tweeted that he is already using Scarlet as his main console.

Probably just shipped them to a few select first party devs so he could proudly state that fact in the interview. What Phil plays with at home as of 2 days ago doesn't mean much in the context of that rumor.
 
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mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Don't believe it for a second, it makes absolutely no sense to confuse their customers.
They tried and failed badly with the 360 gimp version, they're not going to try that again on a worse level.
If they do they deserve to lose more marketshare this Gen too

These rumors have been around since last year. Check out this GAF thread one year ago.

"According to our sources, there are two consoles currently being prepped, aiming for a 2020 holiday debut — a cheaper "S"-style console, to succeed the Xbox One S, and a more beastly "X"-style console, to succeed the Xbox One X. The codename for the "S 2" seems to be "Lockhart," and the codename for the "X 2" seems to be "Anaconda," which may also be serving as a dev kit."

"We've been reporting on Microsoft's efforts surrounding Windows Core OSfor a while now, and it does appear that there's a gaming angle to the puzzle. We've heard from multiple places that the next-gen Xbox consoles will be fully compatible with everything on your current Xbox One consoles, including your OG Xbox and Xbox 360 library via backward compatibility. We've also heard that Microsoft is working on a new delivery method for games dubbed "Game Core," as part of Windows Core OS, which the Scarlett family will support when it's ready. It extends the work Redmond has been doing on UWP.
Game Core should make it easier for developers to build games that function not only on Xbox "Scarlett" consoles but also Windows 10 PCs, further reducing the amount of work studios need to do to get games running across both platforms. We'll hopefully hear more about Game Core either at GDC in early 2019, or a bit later at Microsoft's Build conference"

"We've heard that Microsoft has been working with accessory vendors like Razer and others to ensure that Xbox gaming on mobile is as streamlined an experience as possible, with a range of new accessories, and maybe even devices, that will take advantage of the mobile possibilities that Project xCloud will bring."


Plus Brad Sams talk about it a year ago
 

pr0cs

Member
These rumors have been around since last year.
Yeah that's not new but a gimped version doesn't make any sense unless it's purely a cloud only version that is very inexpensive to directly compete against Stadia (not even convinced there is an audience there to even compete for)
 

Pimpbaa

Member
I really hope this is all bullshit. That much of a lowest common denominator (the lower amount of ram) will hinder next gen consoles as a whole.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Yeah that's not new but a gimped version doesn't make any sense unless it's purely a cloud only version that is very inexpensive to directly compete against Stadia (not even convinced there is an audience there to even compete for)

If this is the case, why even make it slightly more powerful than the PS4 Pro? If it's just a jump box to compete against Stadia, MS should make the box with ARM processors and have it only cost $50.
 

bitbydeath

Member
Maybe they’re not confident in the selling price of Scarlett so Lockhart is the cheaper alternative.

The tech they’re packing (and MS has never been good at pricing) we could be looking at $599
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Maybe they’re not confident in the selling price of Scarlett so Lockhart is the cheaper alternative.

The tech they’re packing (and MS has never been good at pricing) we could be looking at $599

How much does the Xbox One: SAD edition cost?
 
LMAO just last week they said PS5 is on par with 2070 super. Now it's better than 2080? I bet PS5 will be more powerful than 2080ti after Christmas.
 
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FranXico

Member
If this is the case, why even make it slightly more powerful than the PS4 Pro? If it's just a jump box to compete against Stadia, MS should make the box with ARM processors and have it only cost $50.
Who says they aren't going to also sell an xCloud dongle for the TV? Why not?
 

pr0cs

Member
But the 360 did very well, the 'tard pack didn't hurt its sales.
It was a dud from the start, they discovered it early along. I have no belief that they'll try that track again. The core model barely lasted a year, updated to the arcade model which also didn't sell well either
 

CeeJay

Member
Not enough people understand how possible this is. We may get to a point where 3rd party games are on PS5 and PC only.



Did you miss the part where Lockhart has way less RAM too?
Nope, lower spec graphics require less memory. Consoles have unified memory.

For example Lockhart could have 16gb, 8 for GPU, 8 for CPU. Anaconda could have 24gb, 16 for GPU and 8 for CPU. At those specs Lockhart could be considered significantly lower mem than Anaconda while still reserving the same amount for CPU and OS etc. and having the same memory for the GPU as a current high end PC card.
 
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Lupin3

Targeting terrorists with a D-Pad
Saw it on a resetra forum.

chloe-moretz-absolutely-disgusting.jpg
 
Consoles are restricted in power/consumption, right?

How much power/consumption does a disc drive take? I would imagine a fair bit.

How much more gubbings, like RAm, CPU+GPU cores could you get in exchange for one disc drive?

Can you see where i'm going with this?
 

TBiddy

Member
Wait, so the narrative by some here on Gaf is now that 3rd parties will skip Xbox because of Lockhart? Seriously?
 

Dabaus

Banned
I don't think anyone has anything to worry about. I believe there's a reason why Microsoft has only revealed Scarlet to the public and not lockhart, they probably wanted to see reactions first before deciding to scrap it or not.

They put in hard work to turn Xbox around, they cannot screw up this E3 or the likely announcement conference before E3.
We need full context here:
-Since at least the summer xbox hardware revenue has been down 50 percent, then the following quarter was down another 10-15 percent, thats a 60-65 percent drop in hardware revenue. Meanwhile i beleive the xbox division was down 33 percent in revenue overall, and this was post gears 5 launch.

-Speaking of gears 5, it was a shadow of its former self sales wise and all we got was "But gamespass spin." I believe gears 5 quickly fell out of the top 10 currently being played xbox one games 2 weeks after launch.

-Thats the sort of year MS had. I didnt even mention the let down that was their E3.

Oh, and Revenues were still DOWN 33 percent DESPITE PUTTING MOST OF THEIR FIRST PARTY ON PC

Im of the opinion that this is a completely reactionary decision with little to no consideration of what the real world ramifications will be. I genuinely believe this is a reaction the PS5 being more powerful than the Anaconda. I think they know theyve lost the power narrative are afraid of all the bad publicity that would come with it if they lost that title, so theyve resurrected lockheart to divert attention away from that. Fist they denied the existence, cancelled it, resurrected, and devs dont have it hands on, as well as the scarlett. If MS delays the launch i wouldnt be surprised. This whole thing sounds like a mess and the more we learn about Lockheart (60 percent weaker gpu, weaker cpu, and less RAM) the more of a mess it sounds like.

 
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TBiddy

Member
Fist they denied the existence, cancelled it, resurrected, and devs dont have it hands on, as well as the scarlett. If MS delays the launch i wouldnt be surprised. This whole thing sounds like a mess and the more we learn about Lockheart (60 percent weaker gpu, weaker cpu, and less RAM) the more of a mess it sounds like.

Microsoft has never talked about Lockhart. That's about all we know. The rest is guesswork. We haven't "learned" anything. Microsoft hasn't "denied", "cancelled" or "resurrected" it.

As you write, there's plenty to be critical about, so why the need to make up stuff?
 

TBiddy

Member
Not me I think it would be the smart thing for MS to do because they need a larger user base from the start .

I agree. If executed well, it could bolster their position. Then again, I have little faith in Microsofts ability to clearly communicate anything. No matter how good their product is, they just can't seem to sell it.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
This is false. It makes no logical or business sense.
makes perfect business sense. they are not going to be able to beat Sony on performance at the same price. Rumors suggest PS5 is more powerful.

So what do you do when you cant compete on the same level? You launch a console far less powerful for $200 cheaper. casuals wont care about power. See Nintendo selling 800k in a single weekend. they marketed x1s as a 4k console and many fell for it. they will market the 4tflops lockhart as a next gen console and many will fall for it.

its a pretty clever idea. it wont backfire with gamers because gamers will never buy that shitbox. and your soccer moms and 2nd graders wont be out there on forums and twitter complaining about poorly ported games.

they get to steal the casual market away from sony a few years before sony can even get down to that price and sell their gamepass subs.
 
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Psykodad

Banned
Not me I think it would be the smart thing for MS to do because they need a larger user base from the start .
Do they get a larger user base though?

Providing 2 different version, presumably with great difference in power, at launch will limit the production of both versions quite a bit, I assume.
There'll definitely be confusion because of the differences and then you'd have to assume that Lockhart demand will be as high as Scarletts.

Meanwhile, Sony can just focus on solely PS5 and deliver an actual next-gen console compared to Lockhart, with better availability.

In a worst-case scenario, MS is shooting themselves in the foot in quite a fashionable way.
 

Bernkastel

Ask me about my fanboy energy!
Even Phil doesn't want that piece of shit Lockhart.
You know Lockhart is also Scarlet. Infact Microsoft never talked about Lockhart and Anaconda themselves, they only said 'Project Scarlet'. Everything else is a rumour, that the likes of Kotaku are spinning for clicks.
 
makes perfect business sense. they are not going to be able to beat Sony on performance at the same price. Rumors suggest PS5 is more powerful.

So what do you do when you cant compete on the same level? You launch a console far less powerful for $200 cheaper. casuals wont care about power. See Nintendo selling 800k in a single weekend. they marketed x1s as a 4k console and many fell for it. they will market the 4tflops lockhart as a next gen console and many will fall for it.

its a pretty clever idea. it wont backfire with gamers because gamers will never buy that shitbox. and your soccer moms and 2nd graders wont be out there on forums and twitter complaining about poorly ported games.

they get to steal the casual market away from sony a few years before sony can even get down to that price and sell their gamepass subs.

Which would make sense if they weren't launching a powerful, relatively more expensive console alongside it.
 

Bernkastel

Ask me about my fanboy energy!
Probably just shipped them to a few select first party devs so he could proudly state that fact in the interview. What Phil plays with at home as of 2 days ago doesn't mean much in the context of that rumor.
You would make a good insider/journalist.
 
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