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[Self_Destructive]

Is that what I said?

Yes.

See how it works? It doesn't matter if the game is of better quality, you need the PS5 to play it.
Hence, there's incentive to buy one.

Ok... so then you're admitting that the last gen version of that XSX game... didn't hold the XSX version back... Which is my entire point.

Buy whatever console you want man lmao... I dont give a shit. My argument is that games ALSO releasing with last gen versions doesn't mean that the next gen versions will have to be compromised.. That's all.

 

[GHG]

Would Nintendo have sold more Switches than they did at launch had Breath of the Wild not released on WiiU?

Think a bit about that.

The Switch is an entirely different beast and you know it.

The difference between the Wii U and the Switch is not just "the same games but higher resolutions and framerates".

 

[Psykodad]

Yes.

You were asking me what if it wasn't better than what MS was offering

What if Sony's game doesn't look drastically better than what MS has at launch?

What are you expecting?

 

[OneShotThrill]

You gotta love this console warring. But the spin some of you put on things is the best part!

 

[Psykodad]

Ok... so then you're admitting that the last gen version of that XSX game... didn't hold the XSX version back... Which is my entire point.

No, because that's a different discussion.

 

[Self_Destructive]

The Switch is an entirely different beast and you know it.

The difference between the Wii U and the Switch is not just "the same games but higher resolutions and framerates".

Sooo?

Nintendo couldn't make enough of them. Not selling BOTW on WiiU would have done nothing for the Switch version. That's a fact... regardless of the Nintendo factor or not. lmao

 

[lock2k]

Yea! With PS4 you got Knack, Resogun, and Playroom!!

Better than nothing

 

[Panajev2001a]

Would Nintendo have sold more Switches than they did at launch had Breath of the Wild not released on WiiU?

Think a bit about that.

Ok, good this brings to another funny point, and for Nintendo fans to make up their mind, either software on Wii U sells quite a bit and all the Wii U ports are a bad idea or they sold like crap, porting them all to Switch is awesomely pro consumer, and thus BotW on Wii U did not really help much if at all .

 

[Panajev2001a]

Sooo?

Nintendo couldn't make enough of them. Not selling BOTW on WiiU would have done nothing for the Switch version. That's a fact... regardless of the Nintendo factor or not. lmao

Almost as if the game had been designed for Wii U and then quickly ported to Switch .

 

[Self_Destructive]

No, because that's a different discussion.

Well, that's what I've been discussing... so if you're replying to me, then you should be on the same page as me.

You were asking me what if it wasn't better than what MS was offering

Well yea.. because it being demonstrably better or not would prove what I'm saying. That it wouldn't inherently be holding back XSX games from being "next gen" enough...

If Sony's PS5 games they release at launch aren't demonstrably better than what MS has at launch game design-wise... then my point stands. If at launch I see a PS5 game that couldn't be reworked into a functioning PS4 title... design-wise... then I'll 100% admit I was wrong.

But I strongly feel that won't be the case. So this hyperbole that the old gen consoles are holding MS back at launch is exactly that.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Exclusives are being overlooked because of Gamepass.

 

[Self_Destructive]

Almost as if the game had been designed for Wii U and then quickly ported to Switch .

Indeed. But think of how much more Switches they would have sold if they didn't release it on WiiU!!!!!!!

 

[Psykodad]

Well, that's what I've been discussing... so if you're replying to me, then you should be on the same page as me.



Well yea.. because it being demonstrably better or not would prove what I'm saying. That it wouldn't inherently be holding back XSX games from being "next gen" enough...

If Sony's PS5 games they release at launch aren't demonstrably better than what MS has at launch game design-wise... then my point stands. If at launch I see a PS5 game that couldn't be reworked into a functioning PS4 title... design-wise... then I'll 100% admit I was wrong.

But I strongly feel that won't be the case. So this hyperbole that the old gen consoles are holding MS back at launch is exactly that.

I suppose, but I haven't been talking about that at all. At least, that wasn' tmy focus.

I was discussing how dumb of a strategy it is to not release exclusives and how it creates bad PR, which MS can't really afford atm.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Pathetic Xbox fans defending the XSX not having any exclusives for 2 years! Apparently its because MS is our friend and consumer friendly, not because they want to nickle and dime us out of as much potential cash as possible lmao.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

I suppose, but I haven't been talking about that at all.

I was discussing how dumb of a strategy it is to not release exclusives and how it creates bad PR, which MS can't really afford atm.

It doesn't create bad PR, you create bad PR by misinforming the populous at large with ignorance.

Pathetic Xbox fans defending the XSX not having any exclusives for 2 years! Apparently its because MS is our friend and consumer friendly, not because they want to nickle and dime us out of as much potential cash as possible lmao.

Them doing this is the opposite of nickel and diming people.

How did you type this out and think it actually made sense?

 

[Psykodad]

It doesn't create bad PR, you create bad PR by misinforming the populous at large with ignorance.

Did you check youtube since the news?
I'm not spreading anything outside of commenting on a couple of threads on gaf.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Indeed. But think of how much more Switches they would have sold if they didn't release it on WiiU!!!!!!!

I’d rather think how even better the game could have been if it had been Switch exclusive (treating this release, more of the result of a sunk cost fallacy than anything, as anything resembling good Wii U support from Nintendo post launch is a bit weird heh) .

 

[DynamiteCop!]

Did you check youtube since the news?
I'm not spreading anything outside of commenting on a couple of threads on gaf.

You means all of you.

 

[VertigoOA]

I can’t be too optimistic about launch year. PS4 launch year SUCKED. I’ve been there from day one but it was really rough.

 

[Psykodad]

You means all of you.

All of me?

 

[DynamiteCop!]

I can’t be too optimistic about launch year. PS4 launch year SUCKED. I’ve been there from day one but it was really rough.

Launch years are sparsely great no matter where you hang your hat.

All of me?

I'm guessing you weren't the top of your class.

 

[Self_Destructive]

I suppose, but I haven't been talking about that at all. At least, that was my focus.

I was discussing how dumb of a strategy it is to not release exclusives and how it creates bad PR, which MS can't really afford atm.

Well... it remains to be seen. There's never been a generational transition like this upcoming one. Things are a lot different now with BC and the mid gen refreshes.

Yes... new games not available on any other platform will sell that platform... but given the strategies of each company... they both make sense. Sony needs/wants PS5's to get out there fast. Exclusive games facilitate that. MS has XO, Series X, and PC. They're trying to hit every price range and offer services on top of that which entice people to purchase whichever hardware makes sense for them.

It ultimately IS about the games. But in MS' case, they might be better off selling their initial Series X games to as wide of a market as possible. The Series X/PC exclusives which truly push the power will come... and people can purchase XSX knowing that their old library of Xbox games will work, as well as all the games to look forward to in the future.

I'm not saying either is right or wrong. But Halo at launch has a huge opportunity because regardless of being on other platforms, that game WILL sell Series X consoles... and if it turns out to be an actual great Halo... it could really start the gen off right for them.

We'll have to see how it all plays out.. but all I'm saying is that I don't buy into the fear mongering that games won't take advantage of the new console because there's last gen versions of them. Pricing, features, services, and games will ultimately decide how well they continue to sell after launch.

 

[Ellery]

Nice. Great to hear it.

Xbox can do what they want and the way they want it and apparently there are some people that welcome that approach praising it as consumer friendly, but I prefer my generation to look like the 499$ I am going to spend on it.
It is also probably one of the reasons why Playstation is going to outsell Xbox again in 2020 (like Jason Schreier predicted in his 2020 gaming prediction). In europe the PS5 is probably going to dominate 5:1 again over Xbox easily.
I wonder how they are going to deal with multiplayer games that have crossplay. Are they going to limit the amount of players, destruction, map size, interactable environment, etc all on the lowest common denominator? (Xbox One) So you have new games in early 2021 and they are looking great on next generation hardware and you play multiplayer with your 5 Xbox One 1.3 TFLOPs buddies but two have to sit out because the old hardware only allows for 4 player maps on the Xbox One?

(Not that I am going to expect amazing 95+ Metacritic games on release day of the PS5 though and eventually Xbox will makes exclusives for Scarlett aswell. Lets just hope they are going to do better this time around than with the One)

 

[Self_Destructive]

I’d rather think how even better the game could have been if it had been Switch exclusive (treating this release, more of the result of a sunk cost fallacy than anything, as anything resembling good Wii U support from Nintendo post launch is a bit weird heh) .

I wouldn't rather think of that at all. I mean... the game released on Switch and it was a new Zelda title at launch. That's enough to sell the launch consoles.

It will be the same with Halo. If MS make a great Halo game and it does well critically... that sets them on the right path. They just have to continue to execute after that.

 

[VertigoOA]

Launch years are sparsely great no matter where you hang your hat.

Which is why I hope PS5 does feature enhancements to ps4 builds of games. This year looks like it will be solid for the PS4 but I will sort of discount them anticipating investing my gaming hours into next gen. I don’t buy games day one. Too much of a backlog but if I can confidently play ff7 or ghosts of tsushima on Ps5 .... sounds good

 

[Hobbygaming]

Could this be a reason why noob insiders like Klee thought PS5 was more powerful?
He must have got a peek/mistaken about PS5 exclusive games vs X1SX cross-gen games.

No, he has said that he has the spec sheets, it wasnt about what he saw from both consoles

 

[Psykodad]

Well... it remains to be seen. There's never been a generational transition like this upcoming one. Things are a lot different now with BC and the mid gen refreshes.

Yes... new games not available on any other platform will sell that platform... but given the strategies of each company... they both make sense. Sony needs/wants PS5's to get out there fast. Exclusive games facilitate that. MS has XO, Series X, and PC. They're trying to hit every price range and offer services on top of that which entice people to purchase whichever hardware makes sense for them.

It ultimately IS about the games. But in MS' case, they might be better off selling their initial Series X games to as wide of a market as possible. The Series X/PC exclusives which truly push the power will come... and people can purchase XSX knowing that their old library of Xbox games will work, as well as all the games to look forward to in the future.

I'm not saying either is right or wrong. But Halo at launch has a huge opportunity because regardless of being on other platforms, that game WILL sell Series X consoles... and if it turns out to be an actual great Halo... it could really start the gen off right for them.

We'll have to see how it all plays out.. but all I'm saying is that I don't buy into the fear mongering that games won't take advantage of the new console because there's last gen versions of them. Pricing, features, services, and games will ultimately decide how well they continue to sell after launch.

I get MS' strategy, but to sell hardware it's really stupid.

Obviously, that isn't their main focus.

Keep in mind, I'm one of those that thinks MS will quit releasing consoles after next-gen and fully focus on streaming and 3rd party publishing.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

I get MS' strategy, but to sell hardware it's really stupid.

Obviously, that isn't their main focus.

Keep in mind, I'm one of those that thinks MS will quit releasing consoles after next-gen and fully focus on streaming and 3rd party publishing.

Is it though? Why would someone with a GTX 1060 buy an RTX 2080? Are they stupid? They could still play the same games with both, why bother?

You already know the answer so why infer stupidity where there is none?

 

[Panajev2001a]

I wouldn't rather think of that at all. I mean... the game released on Switch and it was a new Zelda title at launch. That's enough to sell the launch consoles.

It will be the same with Halo. If MS make a great Halo game and it does well critically... that sets them on the right path. They just have to continue to execute after that.

Sorry, but when I fork a few hundred quid on new HW I expect first party games to also make a good case for that. That must be one of the top priorities. BotW was essentially done for Wii U then held back not to mess with Switch’s launch that needed some system selling launch software and then allowed to release on Wii U too.

I do not dispute MS could make a great Halo, but that everything has a cost and not even MS has infinite pockets/budget to spend on Halo. The more HW configs you support the more complexity you tackle and thus cost increases or one of the two ends of the spectrum is shortchanged.

 

[Raziel]

Want to hear what my mind comes up with? Games that are fundamentally identical to what we have and are releasing currently in design but will look considerably better.

Shocking revelation, I know. It's almost as if we've had multiple console generations before to build this empirically based foundation of transitional generation design ethos.

It seems like this is your first new console generation, if next gen games built exclusively for next gen consoles is a radical concept for you ?

 

[Panajev2001a]

There's never been a generational transition like this upcoming one. Things are a lot different now with BC and the mid gen refreshes.

What? Xbox One (until the end of the generation) and PS4 (excluding remasters) was the only generation without BC. PS1 to PSP and PS2, then to PS3 and PS Vita, same for Nintendo really (look at their handhelds for example)...

Very strong BC, tons of titles supported not just a bunch, was the norm until the Xbox One and the PS4 which were the odd ones out.

 

[CameFromNearFuture]

Regardless of the games quality, everyone wants to see the consoles potential and the leap in technology It can provide. So even If a game tuns out to be a Crap game that looks more like a tech demo like Ryse, Its still good for many to have the First hand experience of seeing a New level um graphics fidelity and imersion.

But theres nothing stopping from a launch title to actually being good. So people desperatly trying to Twist reality in favor of MS are being the real fanboys. PS4 owners are getting great support with games like TLOUS PART II, Tssushima etc, at the same time, ps5 getting ps5 only games from Sony (dont expect this tô vê the case with third party Studios) that Will really show the consoles potential like KZ SF did is Very good also. A New console marks a New era and a new standard.

On the other hand, MS keeps giving reasons to not upgrade to Xbox series X

 

[DynamiteCop!]

It seems like this is your first new console generation, if next gen games built exclusively for next gen consoles is a radical concept for you ?

What it seems like is people such as yourself like to exaggerate early generation differences. The reality is going into this generation most if not all games were designed in a manner which could have been mechanically accomplished with the PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360.

The way the games actually play and function changed very little from that generation to this one. Over the course of this generation they evolved a bit more but that took a lot of time and the differentiation is not very pronounced on the whole. Are you suddenly expecting that things are going to be uprooted and different going into next-gen? What's the basis for that? Why are we not seeing roots of that taking place currently? A new generation mind you which will be using the most architecturally similar hardware of any console generation ever.

I hate to break it to you but by and large early generation games are going to basically be the culmination of what you see today and some advanced rendering technology.

 

[GHG]

Sooo?

Nintendo couldn't make enough of them. Not selling BOTW on WiiU would have done nothing for the Switch version. That's a fact... regardless of the Nintendo factor or not. lmao

A few things:

• Breath of the Wild was originally announced as a Wii U title, they had somewhat of an obligation to release it on that platform
• The Switch version outsold the Wii U version by about 8:1 - https://www.destructoid.com/breath-...ne-as-the-top-selling-zelda-game-500474.phtml
• It wasn't a case of same game but shiny new graphics. The switch opened up a completely new way of playing the game that wasn't possible on the Wii U thanks to the hybrid nature of the new console.

Look at the attach rate of the game on the switch for goodness sake, the vast majority of people bought the game for the new platform, not the old one. It could have been exclusive to the Switch and barely anyone would have batted an eyelid. It was heavily marketed for the Switch, not the Wii U. All parties wanted to move on from the failure of the Wii U as soon as possible. They even stopped selling the Wii U before the game even came out. To put it simply, it's an invalid comparison to the situation Microsoft are creating for themselves and developers going into next gen.

There's a difference between saying "already announced titles will come out for the platforms they were announced for plus any potential new platforms in the future" and "all new games, including unannounced ones will also come to the old platforms".

When Nintendo released BOTW on both the Switch and Wii U I didn't hear any of you screaming about how "pro-consumer" Nintendo were. Nor did I hear about how "anti consumer" it was that Microsoft were releasing Xbox One exclusives and weren't also putting them on the Xbox 360. Funny that.

 

[squarealex]

"Sony will have PS5 only titles at launch"

Arrogant SONY is BACK!

 

[DynamiteCop!]

Regardless of the games quality, everyone wants to see the consoles potential and the leap in technology It can provide. So even If a game tuns out to be a Crap game that looks more like a tech demo like Ryse, Its still good for many to have the First hand experience of seeing a New level um graphics fidelity and imersion.

But theres nothing stopping from a launch title to actually being good. So people desperatly trying to Twist reality in favor of MS are being the real fanboys. PS4 owners are getting great support with games like TLOUS PART II, Tssushima etc, at the same time, ps5 getting ps5 only games from Sony (dont expect this tô vê the case with third party Studios) that Will really show the consoles potential like KZ SF did is Very good also. A New console marks a New era and a new standard.

On the other hand, MS keeps giving reasons to not upgrade to Xbox series X

Man, you don't have a clue what you're talking about. What is leading you to believe that because a game is also on Xbox One that the build on Series X won't be a defining benchmark of the next-generation?

Where do you people come from?

 

[Self_Destructive]

I get MS' strategy, but to sell hardware it's really stupid.

Obviously, that isn't their main focus.

Keep in mind, I'm one of those that thinks MS will quit releasing consoles after next-gen and fully focus on streaming and 3rd party publishing.

But I'm telling you that initially that hardware is going to sell regardless....

 

[Self_Destructive]

There's a difference between saying "already announced titles will come out for the platforms they were announced for plus any potential new platforms in the future" and "all new games, including unannounced ones will also come to the old platforms".

When Nintendo released BOTW on both the Switch and Wii U I didn't hear any of you screaming about how "pro-consumer" Nintendo were. Nor did I hear about how "anti consumer" it was that Microsoft were releasing Xbox One exclusives and weren't also putting them on the Xbox 360. Funny that.

There will be new games exclusive to Series X not on XO... It's not like there wont be any.. 3rd parties will handle it and MS will release them when they're done development...

Nintendo was living off WiiU rereleases for the first year... let's get fucking real..

And you're not hearing me do either of the sort right now either.... Not sure what you're getting at with regards to me.

 

[Raziel]

What it seems like is people such as yourself like to exaggerate early generation differences. The reality is going into this generation most if not all games were designed in a manner which could have been mechanically accomplished with the PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360.

The way the games actually play and function changed very little from that generation to this one. Over the course of this generation they evolved a bit more but that took a lot of time and the differentiation is not very pronounced on the whole. Are you suddenly expecting that things are going to be uprooted and different going into next-gen? What's the basis for that? Why are we not seeing roots of that taking place currently? A new generation mind you which will be using the most architecturally similar hardware of any console generation ever.

I hate to break it to you but by and large early generation games are going to basically be the culmination of what you see today and some advanced rendering technology.

The best looking next gen only games look better than the best looking cross gen games. This was the case even very early on in the gen.

I hate to break that to you.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

The best looking next gen only games look better than the best looking cross gen games. This was the case even very early on in the gen.

I hate to break that to you.

It's like I'm typing to the blind.

Smart one, try to stay with me here and read this again.

What it seems like is people such as yourself like to exaggerate early generation differences. The reality is going into this generation most if not all games were designed in a manner which could have been mechanically accomplished with the PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360.

The way the games actually play and function changed very little from that generation to this one. Over the course of this generation they evolved a bit more but that took a lot of time and the differentiation is not very pronounced on the whole. Are you suddenly expecting that things are going to be uprooted and different going into next-gen? What's the basis for that? Why are we not seeing roots of that taking place currently? A new generation mind you which will be using the most architecturally similar hardware of any console generation ever.

I hate to break it to you but by and large early generation games are going to basically be the culmination of what you see today and some advanced rendering technology.

 

[chemical boy]

1 PS5 - 0 Xbox SX

 

[Ryu Kaiba]

I can’t be too optimistic about launch year. PS4 launch year SUCKED. I’ve been there from day one but it was really rough.

PS4 Launch year doesn't matter anymore. Sony's found there footing and have been dropping at least 2 Big games a year and I think that's where they want to be and what they will continue.

 

[Raziel]

It's like I'm typing to the blind.

Smart one, try to stay with me here and read this again.

Read this again:

The best looking next gen only games look better than the best looking cross gen games. This was the case even very early on in the gen.

I hate to break that to you.

 

[CameFromNearFuture]

Man, you don't have a clue what you're talking about. What is leading you to believe that because a game is also on Xbox One that the build on Series X won't be a defining benchmark of the next-generation?

Where do you people come from?

Dont act like You can lecture me, my friend.

What Im stating is the obvious that IS shown during evey generation transition, and no matter much bs You can put in wall of texts, the objective reality that can be witness with our own eyes speak more volume.

It is clear that with this whole "ecosystem" thing, MS wants to build a similar scenario that IS seen on PC market with different rigs.

Heres the reality: compare Infamous 2, wich was release almost at the of PS3 life cycle, with Infamous Second Son. The leap between these These two games, put in side by side, is way more than the same game on low and ultra quality. The latter cant simply be rrplicate on PS3, It would look like a whole different game for the worse.

And what about the SSD ? Developers have been talking about How It cant help to build bigger and more complex worlds. Só when the levar designer Guy have great ambition on that aspect, How this Will be possible having to limit its vision tô fit into predecessores hardwares that lack SSD as a base for development ?

 

[Psykodad]

But I'm telling you that initially that hardware is going to sell regardless....

It always does, so that's a given.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

Read this again:

Well that's debatable, what games? What are the metrics for comparison? What are you comparing? What engines? What framerate targets?

It's not cut and dry, and you completely glossed over everything I said so it's a mystery as to why I'm even entertaining your post.

 

[TheStruggler]

The people claiming and saying "well what about the WIIU"

Nintendo and everyone else admittdd that the WIIU was a colossal failure with a game that was originally promised of said failure of a console. They owed it to the fans to still release it on the WIIU however everyone was clamouring for the Switch because the WIIU was terrible

 

[Elios83]

Cross gen games should die as soon as possible.
Do people even remember how disappointing the PS4/XB1 gen was during the first and half year when it was all about cross gen and remasters and the actual next gen games were in development?
Buying a 500$ new console to play old gen games with better graphics all available on a console that I already own is something that honestly takes all the hype away. At that point it's better to wait for price drops or the now inevitable mid gen consoles.
That is why Microsoft's strategy will have a huge negative impact on their hardware sales with no exclusives and no games built from the ground up for a specific platform. They know it, they have already stated that they don't care because they feel their business is elsewhere but it's still disappointing.
We will be forced to deal with prettified old gen stuff from third parties games already....that's a pity but it's unavoidable since those companies ultimately care about their bottom line and not about a platform, but for a platform holder it shouldn't be like that. They should push the new platform.
Even in third parties games we have seen during last gen the huge difference in a single year when they stopped supporting PS3/360.
Just look at the difference between AC Black Flag and AC Unity (which was probably even too ambitious for PS4/XB1). Unity was on an other planet and Black Flag was fully scaled up on PS4/XB1 from the last gen versions.
I'm really glad that Sony will push PS5 with true exclusives and I'm really looking forward to see what the hardware can do with titles like Horizon 2 and Spiderman 2.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Cant believe the situation at Xbox has got so desperate, fans are defending their new console having no exclusives at launch or within the first two years.

 

[ruvikx]

Cross gen games should die as soon as possible.
Do people even remember how disappointing the PS4/XB1 gen was during the first and half year when it was all about cross gen and remasters and the actual next gen games were in development?

I enjoyed the first 2/3 years on the ps4. Stuff like Battlefield 4, Destiny, Bloodborne, Assassin's Creed, Alien Isolation, Tomb Raider, Witcher 3 etc. + all the good deals on the ps store made for a great console (i.e. many of which were cross gen titles). It's once the ps4 pro was released when things started going to shit, with unoptimized games with disgusting framerate the new norm (has anyone ever explained why Assassin's Creed Origins looks & runs far better on the base ps4 than Odyssey does?).

Cant believe the situation at Xbox has got so desperate, fans are defending their new console having no exclusives at launch or within the first two years.

"desperate"? I get the best looking console versions of multiplatform titles on the One X. I have no doubt the Series X is also going to be a monster on which Halo Infinite (for example) will look amazing compared to the One & X versions. The only thing desperate here is the annoying console warrior trash tier comments from people who hug their plastic box whilst shitting all over another just because it has a different brand name on it. In this instance it's the "xbox is shit, muh sony exclusives rule!" dementedness.