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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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I honestly believe it is 12 in Navi but damn that Phil Spencer and his do the math its 2x more powerful statement bugs the crap out of me.

Unless he honestly thinks its hard for us to realize 12 actually is 2 X 6.

Until proven otherwise, I'm just viewing his "do the math" statements as just vague marketing nonsense. Kind of like Sony calling it the "next generation Playstation" before finally confirming the PS5 name later on.

It's nonsense, but companies love to skirt around questions that aren't in their current marketing campaign.
 

Brudda26

Member
Until proven otherwise, I'm just viewing his "do the math" statements as just vague marketing nonsense. Kind of like Sony calling it the "next generation Playstation" before finally confirming the PS5 name later on.

It's nonsense, but companies love to skirt around questions that aren't in their current marketing campaign.
There is also a PR guy off camera most of the time holding their family hostage so they dont say anything they shouldn't 😂
 

Proelite

Member
I think they are that close yes and would not shock me in the least if PS5 ended up more powerful.

Nothing recently has changed my mind though on XsX having a power advantage, not yet anyhow.

As far as the numbers you quoted I have heard those numbers are super close I still have one little crazy birdie telling me to have reservations on the actual numbers being single digits when its said and done.

And he may very well have been hit in the head too many times but I trust him.

If only there was a poll here at the start of this thread to see where people voted on what numbers they think they might be.

You referring to T thuway ?
 

TLZ

Banned
He loves acting like a complete prat...
Now I'm really hoping the reveal is the 5th so it backfires on his ass.
I bet you he's a liar. How's it a mere coincidence he picks that exact phrase 2 days after OsirisBlack OsirisBlack did? Yes he did say "nite" and not "night", but he knows exactly what he's doing, and he still coupled it with a PS5 reveal.

What a bullshitter.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Yea “after 4 months of doing the calculation we came to conclusion that it’s twice the gpu power of x1x”
To be fair 12 being double 6 is extremely hard and needs careful calculation 😂

tenor.gif


He is the king of ambiguity.
 

R600

Banned
I always thought 9-10TF was absolute max, until MS showed PC tower style SKU and then, well, then they are no longer shooting for console form factor and ~200W so that went out of the window.

Having 56CU Navi GPU inside would make it 12TF by default then because there is very little logic in going so big and then clocking it way below efficiency point. That would be worse idea then 36/2.0GHz.
 
I don't think if it would be an issue if SeX is still more powerful than PS5. However, if SeX is 10 and PS5 is 12 then that would be an issue lol.

Except hard data that's been leaked seems to indicate the exact opposite. Either way, this wouldn't really be an issue if we had more concrete info on both ends. But myself personally, I'm still waiting on a GPU testing data leak (any) that aren't Oberon or Ariel to get me convinced PS5 is using something besides those chips on the GPU side.

The fact no such leak has really come out, and we're this close to the February event, has me casting doubt on that front. But that's just my opinion.
 
I honestly believe it is 12 in Navi but damn that Phil Spencer and his do the math its 2x more powerful statement bugs the crap out of me.

Unless he honestly thinks its hard for us to realize 12 actually is 2 X 6.

I've been speculating since the reveal of those PR multipliers that they intended to mean actual real world performance.

It's clear that RDNA is some 25 to 40% faster than GCN, and the XB1X GPU was GCN. So 2x XB1X real world performance could very easily be <10TF (RDNA).

It's just, if you openly say that in some corners of the internet, you'll get dog-piled.
 
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Except hard data that's been leaked seems to indicate the exact opposite. Either way, this wouldn't really be an issue if we had more concrete info on both ends. But myself personally, I'm still waiting on a GPU testing data leak (any) that aren't Oberon or Ariel to get me convinced PS5 is using something besides those chips on the GPU side.

The fact no such leak has really come out, and we're this close to the February event, has me casting doubt on that front. But that's just my opinion.
Not every chip has to leak though and we have never seen Oberon E1 for that matter
 
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I've been speculating since the reveal of those PR multipliers that they intended to mean actual real world performance.

It's clear that RDNA is some 25 to 40% faster than GCN, and the XB1X GPU was GCN. So 2x XB1X real world performance could very easily be <10TF (RDNA).

It's just, if you openly say that in some corners of the internet, you'll get dog-piled.
There can be other reasons why he doesn’t want to say 12 :

1-12 next to 4 will make 4 look very weak so they decided to not talk about numbers and give multipliers since they don’t want Lockhart to be perceived weak

2- they know Sony is around 13 and they don’t want to say 12 .(which seems very unlikely )

so itdoesn’t have to be him trying to deceive us but rather him avoiding saying the number due to above mentioned reasons
 
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I've been speculating since the reveal of those PR multipliers that they intended to mean actual real world performance.

It's clear that RDNA is some 25 to 40% faster than GCN, and the XB1X GPU was GCN. So 2x XB1X real world performance could very easily be <10TF (RDNA).

It's just, if you openly say that in some corners of the internet, you'll get dog-piled.

But they've been kind of playing into that power narrative for building goodwill for next-gen and many places have been reporting 12TF Navi. That no one at MS has come out to dismiss this, given the messaging of transparency they seem to be going for these days, would be very damaging to them if they weren't at least very near that stated number.

The time to retract/renege on those claims passed by mid-December, but I don't think they're so stupid as to ride on that type of perception in a power narrative knowing they'd be well off-base from that. All the same, there's a big possibility Sony are not talking those type of performance metrics precisely because they wouldn't want to build up an impression that they could possibly falter on delivering on and thus betraying goodwill in the process.
 
I've been speculating since the reveal of those PR multipliers that they intended to mean actual real world performance.

It's clear that RDNA is some 25 to 40% faster than GCN, and the XB1X GPU was GCN. So 2x XB1X real world performance could very easily be <10TF (RDNA).

It's just, if you openly say that in some corners of the internet, you'll get dog-piled.

I am more or less in this boat too. The wording in the 2x jump could be interpreted two ways, and I'm leaning towards it being a 2x jump in real world performance from the GPU. Meaning of course, that the jump is less than 2x in the raw TFLOP figure.

That said, we have had numerous 'insiders' telling us it's 12tf NAVI, both consoles are super powerful etc. I'm happy if I'm wrong, but I think expectations are a little high based on what has actually been revealed from MS/Sony.
 

chilichote

Member
I'm not surprised, if both ending below or around 10 TF.

I don't think, that Sony or MS bring consoles to the mass market with power draw above 250 watts from the wall.

Or, both going the two SKU approach - series S/X and PS5/Pro.
 
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I am more or less in this boat too. The wording in the 2x jump could be interpreted two ways, and I'm leaning towards it being a 2x jump in real world performance from the GPU. Meaning of course, that the jump is less than 2x in the raw TFLOP figure.

That said, we have had numerous 'insiders' telling us it's 12tf NAVI, both consoles are super powerful etc. I'm happy if I'm wrong, but I think expectations are a little high based on what has actually been revealed from MS/Sony.

At least on hard data that's been provided out there (photo evidence, expert analysis and GPU testing benchmarks), the only way XSX would hit below 10TF Navi on a 56CU core would be if the clocks are set below 1400MHz...which in that case, why even go for a tower design? A more traditional system design would be more than adequate. Either that, or they've disabled something like 12CUs which...why go for a die over 400mm2 in the first place?

It just wouldn't logically make sense in either case. Now, based on those same hard data points, it's possible PS5 could be around or shy of 10TF Navi; either they turn on more of the disabled CUs and be very careful with the high clocks, or they keep 36 active and push those clocks as high as humanly possible with some super-eloquent cooling. Both are risky and potentially unrealistic scenarios, but again, Ariel and Oberon are the only PS5-related chips we've seen consistent benchmarking tests and information on. If there's another PS5 GPU chip around, I would sure love at least some proof of its existence in even a partial benchmark; heck we've even gotten more proof of possible Lockhart GPU testing than this hypothetical PS5 GPU chip.

I just like going with logic and observable data, especially if there's a pattern to that data. Which is why I'm more willing to entertain the Oberon/Ariel benchmark tests than rumors that, interesting as they are, don't have any substantiated data backing them, especially this late into the process for the new consoles. But maybe something of that effect will come around between now and whenever the PS5 event is, in which case I'm gonna look forward to that (well, I'm looking forward to the even regardless, but you get the point).
 
At least on hard data that's been provided out there (photo evidence, expert analysis and GPU testing benchmarks), the only way XSX would hit below 10TF Navi on a 56CU core would be if the clocks are set below 1400MHz...which in that case, why even go for a tower design? A more traditional system design would be more than adequate. Either that, or they've disabled something like 12CUs which...why go for a die over 400mm2 in the first place?

It just wouldn't logically make sense in either case. Now, based on those same hard data points, it's possible PS5 could be around or shy of 10TF Navi; either they turn on more of the disabled CUs and be very careful with the high clocks, or they keep 36 active and push those clocks as high as humanly possible with some super-eloquent cooling. Both are risky and potentially unrealistic scenarios, but again, Ariel and Oberon are the only PS5-related chips we've seen consistent benchmarking tests and information on. If there's another PS5 GPU chip around, I would sure love at least some proof of its existence in even a partial benchmark; heck we've even gotten more proof of possible Lockhart GPU testing than this hypothetical PS5 GPU chip.

I just like going with logic and observable data, especially if there's a pattern to that data. Which is why I'm more willing to entertain the Oberon/Ariel benchmark tests than rumors that, interesting as they are, don't have any substantiated data backing them, especially this late into the process for the new consoles. But maybe something of that effect will come around between now and whenever the PS5 event is, in which case I'm gonna look forward to that (well, I'm looking forward to the even regardless, but you get the point).
Don’t worry man . It is 12 Navi tf . Orherwise Phil would correct windows central and digital foundry when they mentioned 12 Navi tf .
It’s just for marketing purpose to not make Lockhart sound so weak (12vs 4)
 

Ellery

Member
Sony and MS please hurry up with revealing the specifications.

Going to be a fun time with all the bookmarks I have saved from this thread of insiders and people swearing it is atleast XX TFLOPS :messenger_face_screaming:
 
Just need to remind you things that i said before for the last time\
GPU: PS5>SeX ~10%
RayTracing Accelerators: PS5>X1 (PS5's RT works by using acceleration structures and algorithms much like nVidia's RTX cores)
CPU: Sex>PS5 ~ 6%
Memory: PS5>Sex for the size and bandwidth
SSD: PS5>Sex ~ Over twice as fast (this is the biggest and most noticable difference)
Fan noise (Dev-Kit): Sex>PS5 (not as egregious 1x vs. Pro).

BTW it's up to you believe me or not, but things gonna be clear very soon and you will find out who knows and who knows shit.

Bonus?
Remedy and Housemarque have been in Sony's WWS family for a while now!

Techland belongs to MS now!
 
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Just need to remind you things that i said before for the last time\
GPU: PS5>SeX ~10%
RayTracing Accelerators: PS5>X1 (PS5's RT works by using acceleration structures and algorithms much like nVidia's RTX cores)
CPU: Sex>PS5 ~ 6%
Memory: PS5>Sex for the size and bandwidth
SSD: PS5>Sex ~ Over twice as fast (this is the biggest and most noticable difference)
Fan noise (Dev-Kit): Sex>PS5 (not as egregious 1x vs. Pro).

BTW it's up to you believe me or not, but things gonna be clear very soon and you will find out who knows and who knows shit.

Bonus?
Remedy and Housemarque have been in Sony's WWS family for a while now!

Techland belongs to MS now!

With the best will in the world, I can't imagine that Microsoft, after the last generation, can be technically overtaken again in all points.

Maybe the SSD is faster ok; but graphics card, memory, raytracing ??

that just seems unrealistic to me
 

semicool

Banned
Just need to remind you things that i said before for the last time\
GPU: PS5>SeX ~10%
RayTracing Accelerators: PS5>X1 (PS5's RT works by using acceleration structures and algorithms much like nVidia's RTX cores)
CPU: Sex>PS5 ~ 6%
Memory: PS5>Sex for the size and bandwidth
SSD: PS5>Sex ~ Over twice as fast (this is the biggest and most noticable difference)
Fan noise (Dev-Kit): Sex>PS5 (not as egregious 1x vs. Pro).

BTW it's up to you believe me or not, but things gonna be clear very soon and you will find out who knows and who knows shit.

Bonus?
Remedy and Housemarque have been in Sony's WWS family for a while now!

Techland belongs to MS now!
I don't believe hardly any of that, your relative specs. Write that down.
 
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With the best will in the world, I can't imagine that Microsoft, after the last generation, can be technically overtaken again in all points.

Maybe the SSD is faster ok; but graphics card, memory, raytracing ??

that just seems unrealistic to me
From Audio to Visual, From Gamepad to Console design, PS5 will definitely be more ADVANCED!

I don't believe hardly any of that. Write that down.
ok
 
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01011001

Banned
Just need to remind you things that i said before for the last time\
GPU: PS5>SeX ~10%
RayTracing Accelerators: PS5>X1 (PS5's RT works by using acceleration structures and algorithms much like nVidia's RTX cores)
CPU: Sex>PS5 ~ 6%
Memory: PS5>Sex for the size and bandwidth
SSD: PS5>Sex ~ Over twice as fast (this is the biggest and most noticable difference)
Fan noise (Dev-Kit): Sex>PS5 (not as egregious 1x vs. Pro).

BTW it's up to you believe me or not, but things gonna be clear very soon and you will find out who knows and who knows shit.

Bonus?
Remedy and Housemarque have been in Sony's WWS family for a while now!

Techland belongs to MS now!

everyone unverified that posts insider info should immediately be banned imo.

this is just annoying to be honest.
even the "trusted" leakers don't agree, so it doesn't help when anyone can just jump on here posting vague shit to stirr things up.
 

vivftp

Member
Just need to remind you things that i said before for the last time\
GPU: PS5>SeX ~10%
RayTracing Accelerators: PS5>X1 (PS5's RT works by using acceleration structures and algorithms much like nVidia's RTX cores)
CPU: Sex>PS5 ~ 6%
Memory: PS5>Sex for the size and bandwidth
SSD: PS5>Sex ~ Over twice as fast (this is the biggest and most noticable difference)
Fan noise (Dev-Kit): Sex>PS5 (not as egregious 1x vs. Pro).

BTW it's up to you believe me or not, but things gonna be clear very soon and you will find out who knows and who knows shit.

Bonus?
Remedy and Housemarque have been in Sony's WWS family for a while now!

Techland belongs to MS now!

Nifty, thanks.

... now tell us everything you know about Sony acquiring Zenimax or some of their studios :)

EDIT.
Wait, isn't Remedy a public company? If they were Sony's then we would've definitely known about that, wouldn't we?
 
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demigod

Member
Just need to remind you things that i said before for the last time\
GPU: PS5>SeX ~10%
RayTracing Accelerators: PS5>X1 (PS5's RT works by using acceleration structures and algorithms much like nVidia's RTX cores)
CPU: Sex>PS5 ~ 6%
Memory: PS5>Sex for the size and bandwidth
SSD: PS5>Sex ~ Over twice as fast (this is the biggest and most noticable difference)
Fan noise (Dev-Kit): Sex>PS5 (not as egregious 1x vs. Pro).

BTW it's up to you believe me or not, but things gonna be clear very soon and you will find out who knows and who knows shit.

Bonus?
Remedy and Housemarque have been in Sony's WWS family for a while now!

Techland belongs to MS now!

I'm curious but how is Remedy been in Sony's WWS family for a while if its a publicly traded company?

Also what RT is MS using since people are saying it'll both be the same from AMD.
 

Gavin Stevens

Formerly 'o'dium'
Even if I did believe that hog wash (how can you have a dev kit but know the final fan noise or console design 🤣) 6% and 10% may as well be on par, lol.

One things for sure, the controller is definitely better on the PS5. But we may not have seen the SX ones final form.

As for the audio... as somebody who has been working with 3d game audio an utter shit ton these last few years, all I will say is... 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
 

01011001

Banned
I'm curious but how is Remedy been in Sony's WWS family for a while if its a publicly traded company?

Also what RT is MS using since people are saying it'll both be the same from AMD.

the remedy part makes absolutely zero sense I agree but Remedy is not publicly traded
 
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