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[R600]

So you think a bunch of unknown quantities that you confirms it's XSX lol.

There is only one link, and thats the Render back ends in BC mode. The rest is your assumtion, which could well be as wrong as your assumption about ps5 considering it's old data.

We don't know how many CUs, ROPs, or bus width the retail series X is going to come with. Also VRS and RT prove nothing either both console will have these.

Again. Re read original question and stop taking this so emotionally.

Github tells us how many CUs there are in Arden. It also tells us bus width (matches E3 video reveal - 320bit), ROP count and that in fact it does have VRS/RT.

It also tells us there are two BC modes for Arden, GEN1 (XBX) and GEN0 (Xbone). Sparkman only has one (GEN0), which makes sense, I doubt that one will emulate XBX.

In addition to this, both Arden and Sparkman blocks (literally different parts of GPU tests) are "owned" by same AMD team members (in comparison to say...Oberon).

Now, you not believing Arden is XSX is completely different issue, and the one I am not going to entertain answering.

 

[Shmunter]

But both Osiris and Heisenberg have conflicting info lol, how can you trust both when they have opposite specs?

 

[DJ12]

Again. Re read original question and stop taking this so emotionally.

Github tells us how many CUs there are in Arden. It also tells us bus width (matches E3 video reveal - 320bit), ROP count and that in fact it does have VRS/RT.

It also tells us there are two BC modes for Arden, GEN1 (XBX) and GEN0 (Xbone). Sparkman only has one (GEN0), which makes sense, I doubt that one will emulate XBX.

In addition to this, both Arden and Sparkman blocks (literally different parts of GPU tests) are "owned" by same AMD team members (in comparison to say...Oberon).

Now, you not believing Arden is XSX is completely different issue, and the one I am not going to entertain answering.

I'm not emotional at all. Buts seriously the only link is the BC modes, just like that's the only link to the ps5 info.

Stop making stuff up to suit your narrative.

Anyway I think it's you that needs to read the post again. He didn't say what does it tell us about Arden 6 months ago, he said what links it to xsx.

Cus unknown, rops unknown. Bus width, unknown. A 2 second clip of something on ms's test bench is not confirmation of anything.

The only real link is the BC modes.

 

[LED Guy?]

@HeisenbergFX4 just to recap you got two set of conflicting info.

1- ps5 10 tf
Xsx 10.5 tf

2-ps5 11.3 tf
Xsx 12.1 tf

correct ?

which source u trust more based on history ?? Source 1 or 2?

I think he states that both are 12 TF consoles, with most of his trusted sources saying that to him, but there’s one source who’s saying that they’ll be 9 to 9.5 TF to him but that source is the least one that he trusts.

So take that what you will...I think both consoles will be 12 TF or over it, there are too many statements from insiders and journalists saying the same thing.

 

[xool]

The only real link is the BC modes.

This is true I suppose - but the logical conclusion from that is ?

idk what else I am supposed to think - maybe that this is an early design they gave up on, or an elaborate hoax ?

 

[R600]

I'm not emotional at all. Buts seriously the only link is the BC modes, just like that's the only link to the ps5 info.

Stop making stuff up to suit your narrative.

Anyway I think it's you that needs to read the post again. He didn't say what does it tell us about Arden 6 months ago, he said what links it to xsx.

Cus unknown, rops unknown. Bus width, unknown. A 2 second clip of something on ms's test bench is not confirmation of anything.

The only real link is the BC modes.

Yea, apart from same bus width as shown in Scarlett reveal, XBX and XBone BC modes, already rumored Anaconda codename back in January last year, nothing.

Same for Oberon, besides the BC1 and BC2 bus widths, clock speeds, CU count, actual commit mentioning "SIE", same OPN and PCI ID as Flute absolutely nothing. No wonder you are on my ignore list.

In the end they pulled data from Github and twitter for nothing, as all those chips have nothing to do with next gen consoles.

 

[R600]

This is true I suppose - but the logical conclusion from that is ?

idk what else I am supposed to think - maybe that this is an early design they gave up on, or an elaborate hoax ?

Its not just that.

Its also the fact that Arden has been rumored to be Xbox next gen APU back in January. Then there is Sparkman, which is part of same "family" with same BC mode (but no XBX mode), and we heard about it first from leaked documents on Github.

Then there is 320bit bus width, exactly the same as in Scarlett reveal leak, as well as VRS/RT supporting hardware etc.

Same as with Oberon, but I guess these 3 SOCs are for some other console manufacturer then MS and Sony.

Perhaps Oberon A0 having same OPN number (Oberon_100-000000004-20_4_GPUID_ThermTripLimit_Feb-10) AND PCI ID (13F9) as Flute benchmark is still not enough for some.

Repo also had AMDs ASIC guy CV, and emails from his colleagues all working in AMD.
Then there is this gem from Linkedin...

Baseless Next Generation Rumors with no Technical Merits [post E3 2019, pre GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

Just food for thought... Die sizes : PS2 - 519mm2 ↓ PS3 - 493mm2 ↓ PS4 - 348mm2 ↓ Pro - 320mm2 ↓ PS5 - ???mm2 ? I'm assuming the PS2 and PS3 values are arrived at by adding the areas of the CPU and graphics chips together. While it is true that there is increasing pressure to keep die...

forum.beyond3d.com

 

[Falc67]

Heisy! Dude!... Best leak of the month!


Are you an insider too?


Because their sources could have different devkits. I remember a leak, don't know if it was reddit or 4chan, claiming that only 3rd party close to Sony already has Prospero, but only 1st party devs got the 2nd prototype code name Verona, to prevent leaks. That could be all bullshit, but it actually makes sense...

But why are they basing it off dev kits and not target specs? Don’t the developers receive final target specs along with the dev kits?

 

[LED Guy?]

Still don’t mean he is a fake. Probably just trolled yall since everyone keeps pushing for information. We wont know whos a fake til reveal

I hope that this is the case, which is a small possibility, the only thing he can do now is contact one of the moderators in NeoGAF and he may have trusted sources but I don't think he'd have any because of what he did.

 

[DaGwaphics]

There is no problem with being conservative with firmware and clocks of the dev kits, so long as future revisions are always moving forward and not back. There are obvious benefits to waiting until plastic is getting boxed all around to get the final kits out.

 

[Okami Haundo]

I followed this thread all weekend and feel like I’m losing my sanity. I’ll see you folks when we have some real news.

 

[Brudda26]

Its not just that.

Its also the fact that Arden has been rumored to be Xbox next gen APU back in January. Then there is Sparkman, which is part of same "family" with same BC mode (but no XBX mode), and we heard about it first from leaked documents on Github.

Then there is 320bit bus width, exactly the same as in Scarlett reveal leak, as well as VRS/RT supporting hardware etc.

Same as with Oberon, but I guess these 3 SOCs are for some other console manufacturer then MS and Sony.

Perhaps Oberon A0 having same OPN number (Oberon_100-000000004-20_4_GPUID_ThermTripLimit_Feb-10) AND PCI ID (13F9) as Flute benchmark is still not enough for some.

Repo also had AMDs ASIC guy CV, and emails from his colleagues all working in AMD.
Then there is this gem from Linkedin...

What's the attachment at the bottom it's not loading

 

[R600]

What's the attachment at the bottom it's not loading

Its linkedin of one AMD employee confirming he worked on custom SOCs codenamed Oberon, Arden and Sparkman.

Baseless Next Generation Rumors with no Technical Merits [post E3 2019, pre GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

Just food for thought... Die sizes : PS2 - 519mm2 ↓ PS3 - 493mm2 ↓ PS4 - 348mm2 ↓ Pro - 320mm2 ↓ PS5 - ???mm2 ? I'm assuming the PS2 and PS3 values are arrived at by adding the areas of the CPU and graphics chips together. While it is true that there is increasing pressure to keep die...

forum.beyond3d.com

 

[nikolino840]

I'm Happy if the series X Is Just a 1 TF more then One X...

Isn't the games the most important thing?

How many years needs devs to create the perfect game using all the 12TF?

 

[pawel86ck]

They r so many fake insiders that it killed the fun of reading fake leaks even

Agree. You know what? I have to thank SCFC, because he made me realize I'm spending too much time here trying to read new and exciting news when in reality we are either getting played by fake insiders or talk about literally the same thing all over again (like for example GCN vs RDNA FLOPS talk, etc.). I can spend my time in much more productive way than that.

One thing for sure, next gen consoles will be between 8-12TF and in reality I will be happy with either of those. I can finally agree with VFXVeteran, because we will get something between 1080-1080ti anyway in the end, so trying to argue about 20-30% difference will not change much when real games are concerned.

I will return here when Sony will officaly talk about PS5 specification and till then take care guys .

 

[Gavin Stevens]

sadly it’s also worth pointing out that just because you’re a developer or an insider, it doesn’t mean you can’t also be a fanboy of one system, and so you cant always trust every last word they say. I follow a few, and one constantly talks about how angry he is to be working on Xbox games AT ALL because he’s a Sony fan, but oddly, the things he mentions about leaks and stuff, it always seems to favour PlayStation.

So you can’t really trust anything at all until you get hard, “final” specs.

But even then, my word, expect spin, big time. I’ve already seen it with MS and it’s very annoyingly worded “fastest, most powerful” bollocks. Does that mean faster most powerful console? Or fastest most powerful Xbox? Sony are the masters of spin, too. So until I see stuff on a proper tear down, I don’t care that much. Even then, the proof is in the pudding.

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

I'm Happy if the series X Is Just a 1 TF more then One X...

Isn't the games the most important thing?

How many years needs devs to create the perfect game using all the 12TF?

Well at that point I wouldn't want them to bother with a new gen. Just keep making games on the old. I want a good leap after 7 years

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

sadly it’s also worth pointing out that just because you’re a developer or an insider, it doesn’t mean you can’t also be a fanboy of one system, and so you can always trust every last word they say. I follow a few, and one constantly talks about how angry he is to be working on Xbox games AT ALL because he’s a Sony fan, but oddly, the things he mentions about leaks and stuff, it always seems to favour PlayStation.

So you can’t really trust anything at all until you get hard, “final” specs.

But even then, my word, expect spin, big time. I’ve already seen it with MS and it’s very annoyingly worded “fastest, most powerful” bollocks. Does that mean faster most powerful console? Or fastest mat powerful Xbox? Sony are the masters of spin, too. So until I see stuff on a proper tear down, I don’t care that much. Even then, the proof is in the pudding.

But surely a Dev wouldn't lie about that? Like it's not going to help the console you prefer because the actual stats will just reveal youre wrong before anyone ever plays these.

 

[Ar¢tos]

I'm Happy if the series X Is Just a 1 TF more then One X...

Isn't the games the most important thing?

How many years needs devs to create the perfect game using all the 12TF?

Launch games can use all the available hw resources with some lazy coding.
If you mean using properly the resources, I guess 1 year is more than enough, because of similar next-gen is to previous gen and further optimizations in APIs/coding will slowly improve the games till the end of the gen.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

But surely a Dev wouldn't lie about that? Like it's not going to help the console you prefer because the actual stats will just reveal youre wrong before anyone ever plays these.

Mate we live in a world where footballers are paid millions to play for a team that they don’t like and don’t give it their all.

Developers can be tits too. Have you ever heard of this guy called Randy Pitchford?

 

[DJ12]

Yea, apart from same bus width as shown in Scarlett reveal, XBX and XBone BC modes, already rumored Anaconda codename back in January last year, nothing.

Same for Oberon, besides the BC1 and BC2 bus widths, clock speeds, CU count, actual commit mentioning "SIE", same OPN and PCI ID as Flute absolutely nothing. No wonder you are on my ignore list.

In the end they pulled data from Github and twitter for nothing, as all those chips have nothing to do with next gen consoles.

So now down to just the one circumstantial link. More realistic I guess maybe you'll drop the bus width soon too. (As you seem to struggle reading let me be clear I'm not saying the bus width is incorrect I'm saying there is nothing FACTUAL linking it to the xsx bar the information contained in it anyway.

There's little reason to go down this rabbit hole with you though, you think you've got it all worked out and don't accept anything that does not line up with what you are convinced of.

Please just promise me you will still be here after the reveal, trust me you'll be need to add more than me to your ignore list.

 

[DaGwaphics]

According to the businessinsider.in, MS has made some major design mistakes. Looks like the XSX is a streaming-only device (outbound).

 

[ANIMAL1975]

But why are they basing it off dev kits and not target specs? Don’t the developers receive final target specs along with the dev kits?

I have no idea mate, that's just my thoughts on the matter based in all the talk and speculation I've read. The ones that could know are the 'insiders', unfortunately I've asked this more than once and was ignored lol.
Last one, yesterday to VFX:

So speel the facts please, for instance, Osiris said that 2 of his sources are devs and the specs he got from them are 1 month old _ that's more o less specific. You have given a real world performance range, no specs... That's ok, it's what you have, but it's missing pieces to be 'factual':
_ from how many people did you get that information (were they devs)?
_ did they had both devkits?
_ what devkit version?
_ how old is this information, did they get new devkits or software tools since then, that you know of?
Thank you.

 

[Brudda26]

It's only a matter of time until we get proper leaks

 

[SlimySnake]

Agree. You know what? I have to thank SCFC, because he made me realize I'm spending too much time here trying to read new and exciting news when in reality we are either getting played by fake insiders or talk about literally the same thing all over again (like for example GCN vs RDNA FLOPS talk, etc.). I can spend my time in much more productive way than that.

One thing for sure, next gen consoles will be between 8-12TF and in reality I will be happy with either of those. I can finally agree with VFXVeteran, because we will get something between 1080-1080ti anyway in the end, so trying to argue about 20-30% difference will not change much when real games are concerned.

I will return here when Sony will officaly talk about PS5 specification and till then take care guys .

Yh I'm out this bitch. This influx of losers playing insiders has all but ruined this thread. I wouldn't be surprised if they are ex gaf users coming here to mock us so they can laugh at our reactions on discord, era or 4chan or wherever they congregate to jerk each other off.

Its going to be hard because this thread is addicting but I'm at least going to try and stay out until the psm announcement.

 

[nikolino840]

Launch games can use all the available hw resources with some lazy coding.
If you mean using properly the resources, I guess 1 year is more than enough, because of similar next-gen is to previous gen and further optimizations in APIs/coding will slowly improve the games till the end of the gen.

One year more then usual?

 

[whoever81]

It's only a matter of time until we get proper leaks

That's deep man. How do you know?

 

[Ar¢tos]

One year more then usual?

No, within the first year of release. The only new thing is RT and VRS, everything else devs have used for ages. Gradually they will learn better how and when RT and VRS is best used in games.

 

[Tommy Fisher]

3 different versions of PS5 development kits with major differences. The target specs has always been ~13 RDNA tflops. Like ~12 for Anaconda.

13tf PS5 and 12tf Xbox are 100% legit. You've my words.

 

[Smoke6]

He is the most solid insider ever, he can't fail. He said both are around 12 teraflops, there is a chance they are both around 9 teraflops, difference is around 10% in xbox favor but this can change. You can have any of them in any range between 8 and 13.3 teraflops, and he would be right.

I'm also a PS guy, and I don't care if the information favors my preferred console. When I see something fishy I say it. Tommy Fisher said PS5 was better in everything but noise and CPU clocks. 13.3 teraflops. That's my dream come true. But the specs he shared don't make sense, so I call him on his bullshit.

Stay off the drugs and forums at the sametime bruh! It’s been explained and it’s over...

 

[Brudda26]

That's deep man. How do you know?

I can feel it in my bones

 

[Agnostic2020]

So now down to just the one circumstantial link. More realistic I guess maybe you'll drop the bus width soon too. (As you seem to struggle reading let me be clear I'm not saying the bus width is incorrect I'm saying there is nothing FACTUAL linking it to the xsx bar the information contained in it anyway.

There's little reason to go down this rabbit hole with you though, you think you've got it all worked out and don't accept anything that does not line up with what you are convinced of.

Please just promise me you will still be here after the reveal, trust me you'll be need to add more than me to your ignore list.

for PS5 he only talk about documents and he says there are no facts other than the github but for XSX he accepts a Pr render video to base all his assumption on

 

[Gavin Stevens]

13tf, you’re mad as a dog in a bungalow if you think you will get that in a classic form factor shaped/size box, and cheaper than the 12tf Xbox.

Let’s use a little logic here.

 

[Agnostic2020]

3 different versions of PS5 development kits with major differences. The target specs has always been ~13 RDNA tflops. Like ~12 for Anaconda.

13tf PS5 and 12tf Xbox are 100% legit. You've my words.

so in feb we hear 13 TF gpu in Ps meeting ?

 

[Kampfradler]

You've my words.

words, pictures, etc.

yeah sure - we had this already.

 

[Gudji]

I can feel it in my bones

If it doesn't come out from a source like Jason Schreier forget about it, at least until GDC which is mid March.

 

[Handy Fake]

Have to say, Tommy's assertiveness and unwavering stipulations do give me pause.

 

[Lort]

3 different versions of PS5 development kits with major differences. The target specs has always been ~13 RDNA tflops. Like ~12 for Anaconda.

13tf PS5 and 12tf Xbox are 100% legit. You've my words.

And you say PS5 is 52 cu at 2 gig ... and that’s too fast so I’m sure you’ll say that WAS the target but they couldn’t make it... so then your not wrong?

unless of course the cu count is wrong .. then your just wrong.

 

[Agnostic2020]

Have to say, Tommy's assertiveness and unwavering stipulations do give me pause.

haha yea he is extremely cocky about it

 

[ANIMAL1975]

So now down to just the one circumstantial link. More realistic I guess maybe you'll drop the bus width soon too. (As you seem to struggle reading let me be clear I'm not saying the bus width is incorrect I'm saying there is nothing FACTUAL linking it to the xsx bar the information contained in it anyway.

There's little reason to go down this rabbit hole with you though, you think you've got it all worked out and don't accept anything that does not line up with what you are convinced of.

Please just promise me you will still be here after the reveal, trust me you'll be need to add more than me to your ignore list.

I don't believe he has a ignore list, put it on Github or it doesn't exist!

3 different versions of PS5 development kits with major differences. The target specs has always been ~13 RDNA tflops. Like ~12 for Anaconda.

13tf PS5 and 12tf Xbox are 100% legit. You've my words.

Don't stop Tommy we need more, why 3 devkits? What are the differences?
PS: don't f***ck us sideways like that tscs dude, we are still aching.

 

[DJ12]

13tf, you’re mad as a dog in a bungalow if you think you will get that in a classic form factor shaped/size box, and cheaper than the 12tf Xbox.

Let’s use a little logic here.

Why, because MS didn't?

Logic??

 

[nikolino840]

No, within the first year of release. The only new thing is RT and VRS, everything else devs have used for ages. Gradually they will learn better how and when RT and VRS is best used in games.

I don't think so...how many years nuaghty dogs are working on tlou 2 for ps4? And for ps5 then you have to add ...more res more fps more poligon ray tracing more IA more phisichs ...Is the situation of star Citizen..6 years and more for exclusives games using 100% of the hardware

 

[Handy Fake]

haha yea he is extremely cocky about it

Aye, he's balls out with his predictions with no caveats so I'm half inclined to believe this one.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

Why, because MS didn't?

Logic??

Nah, lets be serious for a second. Price wise, that's nuts. Spec wise, that's nuts. And heat wise, in traditional form factor, is nuts.

I would be saying the same the other way around. The absolute limit of all this for me is 12ish TF, and even THEN I'm thinking an expensive bit of it in a larger case. And EVEN THEN, I'm very dubious. I'm much more inclined to see one console be a SMIDGE better than the other (to the point it makes bugger all difference) and for the overall TF to be about 10ish.

 

[xool]

Have to say, Tommy's assertiveness and unwavering stipulations do give me pause.

If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. ​

​

I'm quoting Joseph Goebbels so it's probably time to take a break

 

[Ar¢tos]

I don't think so...how many years nuaghty dogs are working on tlou 2 for ps4? And for ps5 then you have to add ...more res more fps more poligon ray tracing more IA more phisichs ...Is the situation of star Citizen..6 years and more for exclusives games using 100% of the hardware

I'm considering the start-of-gen vs end-of-gen looks. The gap is smaller now. When you compare the gap between early vs late ps3 games with early vs late ps4 gen, you see the gap is much smaller because the hardware is simpler. This gen games won't impress us as much late gen because devs can get much more from the hardware right from the start.

 

[ANIMAL1975]

Nah, lets be serious for a second. Price wise, that's nuts. Spec wise, that's nuts. And heat wise, in traditional form factor, is nuts.

I would be saying the same the other way around. The absolute limit of all this for me is 12ish TF, and even THEN I'm thinking an expensive bit of it in a larger case. And EVEN THEN, I'm very dubious. I'm much more inclined to see one console be a SMIDGE better than the other (to the point it makes bugger all difference) and for the overall TF to be about 10ish.

But isn't that ~1tf difference 10ish?

Edit: and we still don't know nothing about the price, cooling, or form factor regarding ps5.

 

[chigstoke]

3 different versions of PS5 development kits with major differences. The target specs has always been ~13 RDNA tflops. Like ~12 for Anaconda.

13tf PS5 and 12tf Xbox are 100% legit. You've my words.

In that case, my penis 12 inches.

You’ve my word.

If those specs get confirmed then I’ll snap a pic of my todger as well.

 

[Handy Fake]

In that case, my penis 12 inches.

You’ve my word.

If those specs get confirmed then I’ll snap a pic of my todger as well.

As long as your terafloppy doesn't have an SSD.

 

[Kampfradler]

would that make any sense ?

ps5: 40 cu's - 4 = 36 cu's @ around 1,75ghz = 8,4tf RDNA -> 8,4*1,2 = 10,08 tf