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[thebigmanjosh]

Because it says "full chip results" on native Excel table in column showing cache for 18WGP configuration.

If you’re going to take these tests at face value then take all of the data into account.

EDIT: Got my SEs/SAs mixed up with some bad math so taking this piece out.

Mentioning things were fixed in Oberon means these were likely older (Ariel?) tests and not reflective of anything close to final hardware.

 

[ethomaz]

The question is: About TF or about RT?

Not just that there are inconsistencies in Xbox too.

There are tests with Arden with BC Gen0 (XB1) and BC Gen1 (XB1X) at the same time there is tests with Sparkman but it only has BC Gen0 support (XB1).

Well you will say Sparkman is Lockhart? Well it could be but it is a 56CU chip... how a chip with 56CUs can’t emulate Xbox One X?

BTW Sparkman showed in October... it is a newer chip than Arden and Oberon.

But people will focus on Oberon and Ariel and forget Arden and Sparkman because fits the bias mentality.

Maybe Xbox One Series X doesn’t have Xbox One X BC support based in GitHub? I’m doing it right?

 

[R600]

PS5 rumored :

5700XT (no RT/VRS) - $400 / 250mm² 7nm (PS5 rumored + RT/VRS hw)

Zen2 3700 - $329

320-330mm²?

PS4Pro :

RX470 - $179 / 230mm² 16nm (PS4Pro)

Jaguar 8 core - $50?

325mm² die

PS4 :

R9 270 - $180 / 212mm² 28nm (PS4)

Jaguar 8 core - <100$?

348mm² die

Conclusion

7nm price per yielded mm² (on 250mm² die) = 2x higher then on 16nm

Hypotetical Oberon PS5 would have :

A) Bigger GPU compared to PS4/Pro on smaller node

B) Would have similar die size, but instead of ~100$ per die, they would likely pay additional >50-60$ (at very least) since 7nm is ~2x more expensive per yielded mm² (on smaller die size - 250mm², so it might be even more)

C) Use top of the line CPU from AMD instead of low powered mobile one they used in PS4 and Pro. In addition to this, GPU they would put in this PS5 would be at least 2x more expensive on market compared to equivalents used in PS4 and Pro

Is 9.2TF PS5 then conservative or actually very much pushing the boundaries compared to PS4 and Pro (not counting SSD + haptic controller and all other extras)? Its pushing the boundaries and such console would certainly be more expensive to produce then PS4 and Pro (which BOM was around 380$).

 

[nikolino840]

Maybe they have fear that people are interested to play on mobile devices with xcloud if Sony don't make un upgrade to the service,they don't want that Microsoft could Say "tot players using xcloud"

 

[R600]

If you’re going to take these tests at face value then take all of the data into account.

The tests show there are 4 shader arrays of 5 WGPs each, which would be a terrible use of space on the die vs. what’s in a 5700/XT that has two shader arrays (SA) with 10 WGPs (20CUs) in each.

If Sony were to disable 1 WGP/SA for yields, they’d need to do it for all 4 SAs, and they’d end up with 32 CUs or two SAs with no WGPs disabled (which would be stupidly terrible for yields). Much more likely it’s a bigger chip that has WGPs disabled for yields and more turned off for BC testing purposes.

Also, mentioning things were fixed in Oberon means these were likely older (Ariel?) tests and not reflective of anything close to final hardware.

Each shader engine has 2 SA in Navi = 4SA over 40CUs.

They dont need to disable 8CUs, where did you get that from? They disable 1WGP from each SE = 4CUs.

 

[JMB88]

This thread is like watching Dark, it's a damn loop that repeats itself over and over again. Please Sony, give us something!

 

[Gamernyc78]

Maybe they have fear that people are interested to play on mobile devices with xcloud if Sony don't make un upgrade to the service,they don't want that Microsoft could Say "tot players using xcloud"

Idk wtf this means but since the beginning Sony has been innovating and pushing remote play and streaming while others were late to the party. Sony more than anyone always pushed tech and won't stagnate. What ppl are doing now is in response to what Sony has done in the past console wise.

Fear doesn't drive Sony to innovate its in their genes and they are great at it. Things are constantly evolving.

 

[lynux3]

PS5 rumored :

5700XT (no RT

Stopped you right there. PlayStation 5 has been confirmed to support ray tracing and corroborated by a development studio. Why are people still questioning this?

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

But it doesnt line up with Osiris, Klee and Tommy's number.

So, on one side you have Github/DF, on another you have Heisenberg/Odium and on completely different side you have Klee/Osiris/Tommy.

So who is right? Because Sony fans trust everyone bar DF/Github, but even the other two do not match with eachother. Hence = trusting hard numbers that line up with other leaks (Flute) and are actually pulled from Internet on AMDs request (you know, guys who actually create those APUs for Sony and MS).

My own personal opinion is sitting somewhere between Github/DF and Heisenberg/Odium on this. You can get 10.24 with the current Oberon stepping, and the fact the CPUs are mobile(laptop) variants gives more room for TDP budget for the APU. So technically they could push even higher, say, to 2.1GHz, for 10.75 or maybe even a bit higher than that to hit 11, all on the same Oberon stepping (E0) with all 40 units turned on. But, that'd probably see a somewhat lower CPU clock, compared to wherever XSX's CPU clock is at. And yes, 2.1GHz is well outside sweetspot area, but combined with good cooling and a lower-demanding CPU I think it could be at least doable.

But I'd feel uneasy with that approach honestly, and would rather want a bigger chip. Unfortunately nothing tied to PS5 has emerged yet fitting that criteria, and if it did it would probably be a newer Oberon stepping or maybe a chip revision. There's still some time for it to happen, but the window of opportunity is closing.

I think a lot of people are only feeling 9.2 as a disappointment because of direct relation to other numbers, particularly 12. But they don't understand how much of a leap 9.2TF RDNA1/RDNA2 Navi actually is compared to 1.84TF GCN. It's over a 6x increase, effectively. And they definitely don't seem to understand how big a leap Zen 2 is over Jaguar, or a 512 GB/s memory bus is over 176 GB/s on older memory architecture, etc. And they definitely don't understand what a giant leap a 4 - 6 GB/s custom SSD drive interfaced as a memory-mapped cache (similar to SSG cards) is over the pathetic mechanical HDDs current-gen has been built around that couldn't even break 100 MB/s.

It's about the full picture, not just teraflops.

 

[Fake]

Maybe they have fear that people are interested to play on mobile devices with xcloud if Sony don't make un upgrade to the service,they don't want that Microsoft could Say "tot players using xcloud"

Kinda agree, but I find curious they're looking for possibilities.

This thread is like watching Dark, it's a damn loop that repeats itself over and over again. Please Sony, give us something!

Trust me, even if so will be not enough.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I'd like to know why IOInteractive is using a 9.2 Teraflop GPU profile for their game?

Good question...

No, you know exactly why.

Link please?

 

[HawarMiran]

Stopped you right there. PlayStation 5 has been confirmed to support ray tracing and corroborated by a development studio. Why are people still questioning this?

Simple answer. Severe braindamage

 

[01011001]

Stopped you right there. PlayStation 5 has been confirmed to support ray tracing and corroborated by a development studio. Why are people still questioning this?

maybe not stop there and read the rest of that exact line.

he is only listing prices and that graohics card has no RT or VRS, he then lists those extra after it because we don't know their price

Simple answer. Severe braindamage

is what I think you two have because you clearly cant comprehend what he wrote

 

[R600]

Will someone posts this IO Interactive thing that some people are talking about?

Its fake quote. I watched video and there is no reference to it (I coppied post from Ree regarding this but did say I didnt listen myself).

 

[thebigmanjosh]

Each shader engine has 2 SA in Navi = 4SA over 40CUs.

They dont need to disable 8CUs, where did you get that from? They disable 1WGP from each SE = 4CUs.

Thanks for the catch. I got my SA/SE terminology mixed up.

 

[B_Boss]

It sure was

Requested a self ban if no February event too. Yet today we still have a few calling for his "insiderness"

I can't help but wonder if virus concerns wouldn't have held sway, if we would have had a bit more concrete info from Sony by now.

 

[HawarMiran]

maybe not stop there and read the rest of that exact line.

he is only listing prices and that graohics card has no RT or VRS, he then lists those extra after it because we don't know their price



is what I think you two have because you clearly cant comprehend what he wrote

You don't even have reading comprehension you clown. I answered his question. I didn't even read what that guy he quoted wrote. Now get lost. You are annoying

 

[DeepEnigma]

Its fake quote. I watched video and there is no reference to it (I coppied post from Ree regarding this but did say I didnt listen myself).

So why did you rush to support it?

No, you know exactly why.

And you too.

 

[lynux3]

maybe not stop there and read the rest of that exact line.

he is only listing prices and that graohics card has no RT or VRS, he then lists those extra after it because we don't know their price

I read the whole post and there's nothing of value. We already have a Bloomberg article suggesting PlayStation 5's BOM is roughly ~$450. That should be enough.

 

[ethomaz]

Each shader engine has 2 SA in Navi = 4SA over 40CUs.

They dont need to disable 8CUs, where did you get that from? They disable 1WGP from each SE = 4CUs.

Actually your pic shows they disabled 1/2 WGP in each SA... or 1 WGP each 2 SA.
It shows 4SA with 5WGP each as full chip but run the tests with 4SA and 18WGP (2WGP disabled) and 2SA and 9WGP (1WGP disabled).

Like he said.

Thanks for the catch. I got my SA/SE terminology mixed up.

You are right in the count at least but it is not waste of size (RX 5700 use similar approach).

It is unbalanced but seems AMD have no problem with that.

 

[nikolino840]

Idk wtf this means but since the beginning Sony has been innovating and pushing remote play and streaming while others were late to the party. Sony more than anyone always pushed tech and won't stagnate. What ppl are doing now is in response to what Sony has done in the past console wise.

Fear doesn't drive Sony to innovate its in their genes and they are great at it. Things are constantly evolving.

I'm just speculating at random about the survay...

 

[Thedtrain]

OsirisBlack
Please save us

 

[01011001]

I read the whole post and there's nothing of value. We already have a Bloomberg article suggesting PlayStation 5's BOM is roughly ~$450. That should be enough.

if you actually understood what he said why react in the way you did?

that makes your post I quoted before complete nonsense...

 

[Moridianae]

The coronavirus has absolutely affected things, particularly if a February reveal was in the cards.

Things went out of hand overseas. Japan has cancelled school earlier than anticipated, etc.

Microsoft isn't affected by this as much, but they can be when production time comes around.

In terms of specs, we have heard the kits aren't final and also some near final kits, if not final themselves, were due to hit sometime soon(i.e end of February or early March) from Sony.

FYI-11.5 or even a smidge higher can be rounded up to 12 and most likely will be, so I'm still in the they'll both be the "same" camp.

 

[bitbydeath]

Everyone should stop wasting their time trying to convince Xbox fans what the PS5 specs will be.

Of course they have a bias and won’t see to reason no matter how much github gets disproven.

Just let them yell at air and bring back some proper discussion to this thread.

 

[R600]

Actually your pic shows they disabled 1/2 WGP in each SA... or 1 WGP each 2 SA.
It shows 4SA with 5WGP each as full chip but run the tests with 4SA and 18WGP (2WGP disabled) and 2SA and 9WGP (1WGP disabled).

Like he said.


You are right in the count at least but it is not waste of size (RX 5700 use similar approach).

It is unbalanced but seems AMD have no problem with that.

18WGP / 4SA = 36CU (exact same config as 5700) not sure what is not clear for you?

9WGP / 2SA = 18CU

Its testing cache BW for range of WGPs.

 

[lynux3]

if you actually understood what he said why react in the way you did?

that makes your post I quoted before complete nonsense...

No, it makes complete sense. Why even question a confirmed feature when attempting to speculate component pricing? Seems counter productive don't you think?

 

[R600]

So why did you rush to support it?

I assumed its correct as user said, but clearly said I didnt watch video and after watching it said its false. Not sure what the problem is?

 

[DeepEnigma]

I assumed its correct as user said, but clearly said I didnt watch video and after watching it said its false. Not sure what the problem is?

The problem is this is what happens when you have an already established narrative in your head, you just assume every little thing is correct that supports it.

Confirmation bias before due diligence.

 

[R600]

The problem is this is what happens when you have an already established narrative in your head, you just assume every little thing is correct that supports it.

No, its just assuming someone wouldnt actually lie on quote from video anyone can watch, thats all.

 

[Captain Hero]

Xbox players I have a question for you ..

Now if I want to use bc on my xbox should I use disc or just find any game i want on store ?

 

[ethomaz]

18WGP / 4SA = 36CU (exact same config as 5700) not sure what is not clear for you?

9WGP / 2SA = 18CU

Its testing cache BW for range of WGPs.

5700 is a 4SA with 5WGP each just like the chip tour pic shows. Both have 1/2 WGP per SA or 1 WGP each 2 SA disabled.

It is clear to me... his count is right.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

No, its just assuming someone wouldnt actually lie on quote from video anyone can watch, thats all.

 

[Fatal Enigma]

I can't help but wonder if virus concerns wouldn't have held sway, if we would have had a bit more concrete info from Sony by now.

Sony has full ability to video tape or broadcast something in lieu of things. MS gamestack cancelled @ gdc but they will still broadcast it

 

[it_wasn't_me]

He didn't exactly say 10 - 15% difference between them, he specified that the difference between PS5 & XSX is like the difference between Xbox One fat (1.3 TF) and Xbox One S (1.4 TF), so that's like 7% difference between XB1 & XB1S.

Applying the difference to PS5 VS XSX, we get 12 TFs (XSX) VS 12.9 TFs (PS5).

Remember, he said that these are dev kits and final numbers might not end up EXACTLY like that for PS5, maybe a bit higher or a bit lower than 12.9 TFs, now we got XSX confirmed to be 12 TFs which is like what he said, now let's wait for PS5.

He never said 10-15%. He said XB1 - XB1s difference which is about 7%.

That’s a maybe, but the one where he was sure (BASED ON DEVKITS, before anyone jumps to conclusions) is that the difference is 7% and honestly, that would mean both consoles are almost neck to neck and that’s a win-win situation.

Like i've said, will provide links about possible +10% difference :

Posts goes in this order ( the bolded post is the most interesting one ) :

Sure, but if there is a double digit performance difference, they can't really make up for that in software, as was hinted at here (and in 2013).

There is no double digit performance difference.

Both PS5/Scarlett have double digit performance (I.e. over 10.0TF)

Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT7| - nm

I'm just not discounting Microsoft's capabilities, that's all. It's still early days, especially for them.

www.resetera.com

There is no double digit performance difference.

Bit early to make such a statement, isn't it? It could be a 12% difference for all we know, it won't typically show up in most games anyway, it would just give one console a bit more headroom over the other.

Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT7| - nm

I'm just not discounting Microsoft's capabilities, that's all. It's still early days, especially for them.

www.resetera.com

Bit early to make such a statement, isn't it? It could be a 12% difference for all we know, it won't typically show up in most games anyway, it would just give one console a bit more headroom over the other.

Since you didn't say double digit percentage, I thought you meant Teraflops

Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT7| - nm

I'm just not discounting Microsoft's capabilities, that's all. It's still early days, especially for them.

www.resetera.com

Since you didn't say double digit percentage, I thought you meant Teraflops

Sorry, I thought that was obvious.

Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT7| - nm

I'm just not discounting Microsoft's capabilities, that's all. It's still early days, especially for them.

www.resetera.com

Klee later clarified that he was talking about "double-digit" difference in absolute terms, i.e. pure flops difference.

He specifically left open the opportunity for a double-digit percentage difference.

Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT7| - nm

Lol I was 18 in 99

www.resetera.com

 

[Zero909]

Will someone posts this IO Interactive thing that some people are talking about?

I think it came from Richard from DF

 

[Fatal Enigma]

Xbox players I have a question for you ..

Now if I want to use bc on my xbox should I use disc or just find any game i want on store ?

either or

 

[TLZ]

I assumed its correct as user said, but clearly said I didnt watch video and after watching it said its false. Not sure what the problem is?

So why did you quickly assume it's correct before fact checking, like you repeatedly beat us with the GitHub fact check?

 

[lynux3]

Xbox players I have a question for you ..

Now if I want to use bc on my xbox should I use disc or just find any game i want on store ?

It doesn't really matter. It is whatever you prefer to use. I personally use disc... both physical and digital will have the same end result; whatever enhancements Microsoft made through backwards compatibility.

 

[TLZ]

No, its just assuming someone wouldnt actually lie on quote from video anyone can watch, thats all.

Dealer and co lie on video a lot. And a ton of others on YouTube. And a ton on daily media. Cmon.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I think it came from Richard from DF

Nah, it was already bullshit.

Not to mention the sentence makes no sense. WTF is a 9.2TF profile in a game?

 

[ThisIsMyDog]

if PS5 is 399$ then im fine with 9.2tf

 

[Captain Hero]

either or

It doesn't really matter. It is whatever you prefer to use. I personally use disc... both physical and digital will have the same end result; whatever enhancements Microsoft made through backwards compatibility.

That's good .. thank you so much

 

[TLZ]

if PS5 is 399$ then im fine with 9.2tf

Same. I do hope it's more though.

 

[Zero909]

Nah, it was already bullshit.

Not to mention the sentence makes no sense. WTF is a 9.2TF profile in a game?

I have no idea

 

[R600]

So why did you quickly assume it's correct before fact checking, like you repeatedly beat us with the GitHub fact check?

...because its literal quote from video? If I told you Trump just confirmed first death from corona virus would you believe me? I mean, I am not telling you I saw flying Jesus outside of my house. Anyone can fact check it, so I would assume people would not make it up because people will watch it anyway?

 

[R600]

Dealer and co lie on video a lot. And a ton of others on YouTube. And a ton on daily media. Cmon.

I believe you that they lie. Difference is they are not quoting you other video and making quote up.

Its like media quoting someone from a video interview and you believing them, only to end up they made it up . Why wouldnt you believe them?

 

[Gamernyc78]

They getting desperate now lol thy don't want Sony to shine. Wait till Cerny pulls out that Shiny, big, tera flop monster some of you are going to be jelly it gets all the loving

 

[Zero909]

Fanboys after PS5 specs reveal

 

[01011001]

Xbox players I have a question for you ..

Now if I want to use bc on my xbox should I use disc or just find any game i want on store ?

well some games aren't available anymore digitally due to expired licenses.
Forza Horizon 1 for example. so you have to get that one on disc if you wanna play it (it is my favourite in the series in terms of how the campaign is set up and it runs at 4k with 4x MSAA on one X so it looks super clean)

but the only difference when playing is that you have to insert the disc if you have the disc version...
in both scenarios you need to download the game from their servers because each game comes with a specialised wrapper that runs the game. it's not quite an emulator or anything but it tells the Xbox One hardware how to handle all the cpu and gpu tasks basically