Support NeoGAF

[VanSiriusGabriel]

This just goes to show how AWFUL their messaging has been. Jesus F Christ.

Look I still don't fucking get it:
All games work on BC or not?

 

[TBiddy]

I personally think next generation will be won by price.

I agree, sort of. Sony will sell the most, no matter what, but price is a deciding factor of course.

But what are you basing the 399, 450, 500 and 600$ prices on?

 

[StreetsofBeige]

So does anyone have an updated general run down of all of the supposed leakers from over the last year?

I think O'dium, Heisenberg, BG's, and VFXVeteran are still posting?

*Not looking for any witch hunts - just wondering what their current status is. I think I saw some of these members explain themselves but what about Tommy, Orisiris, and others?

Here is a good recap reddit had, which saintjules last pasted here last week.

Click on the links as most of them are still up with their predictions in more detail. Tidux guy is hilarious.

Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

15 tf, 32 gig of ram. Lol. That's the devkit's specs, not retail PS5.

www.neogaf.com

 

[splattered]

I personally think next generation will be won by price.

If Sonys intention has been to keep to the $399 budget then I think this will put some strain on Microsoft.

1. MS could price the xsx at $450, but I think they will suffer a pretty heavy loss per console sold, Sony would be bleeding them as there will be a fixed budget / operating cost and the other departments will be looking at just how much loss the xbox produces.

2. MS could price the xsx at $500 or $600 in both cases the loss will be far less or it may even make profit on each unit sold, but the sales will be far weaker and its almost guaranteed Sony will outsell them at $100 or $200 price difference.

What if MS pulls off the impossible and puts the XsX out at $399 alongside the PS5?

 

[48086]

Atmos can do up to 35 audio sources, while the Tempest engine goal is to do around 100.

That's awesome, thanks! I'm honestly just as excited for the audio improvements as I am for whatever potential ssd gains the ps5 has over the xsx.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Splattered, I also had my own tracker months ago which was quick and dirty:

Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

Lol.. just .. LOL! He should ask his company why they even revealed the box then. Lets all just buy a car and not know the specs, what an idiot.

www.neogaf.com

Guy who leaked Oberon specs (from around spring 2019): 9.2TF

Klee: More than 10TF, PS5 > XSX by 5% (none over 11TF). Then claimed XSX is slightly more than 12TF at “bingo” 12.1TF. Lockhart model cancelled

Osiris: More than 10TF. PS5 > XSX. 11.6 and 12.4. Since PS5 is better, then PS5 is 12.4TF and XSX at 11.6TF

Matt from Reeee (Matt the moderator): XSX > PS5

Jason Schreier: Aiming for 10.7TF+. Both similar

Tim Dog: ???. But seems confident XSX > PS5

Un-named journalist: 13TF devkit

“Unknown” pastebinner: PS5 has double gpus for 14.2TF.

 

[SonGoku]

Any idea what cerny meant with 825gb is the most natural size on a 12ch interface

 

[splattered]

Here is a good recap reddit had, which saintjules last pasted here last week.

Click on the links as most of them are still up with their predictions in more detail. Tidux guy is hilarious.

Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

15 tf, 32 gig of ram. Lol. That's the devkit's specs, not retail PS5.

www.neogaf.com

Yikes so like 99% of these leaks and insiders were completely full of crap?

The only ones that were even close were the 9.2 to 10~ and there were very few of them.

Even the Bryttany Messina leak started out reasonable but then went out into B.S. land.

So strange how this all turned out.

 

[pasterpl]

now, since we know the specs can anyone try to estimate the actual cost of these?

 

[ethomaz]

You are honestly excited about loading in lower quality graphics and lower performance faster?

These SSDs have to provide something other than fast load times for them to be worth the increase in cost... if people are so impatient they can't wait 10-30 seconds for a level to load then I don't know what to tell them.

A decrease in loading times is welcome, but I don't want to pay an extra $50 - $100 for it.

Lower quality graphics and lower performance? Jump conclusions at max lol

I played no-loading games in the past and the immersion is completely different.

How many times I got asleep in a loading screen after PS1.

 

[Marlenus]

The "couple of percent" drop was to give an example of a 10% saving of power. It was not a statement that clocks would never drop by more than 2%.

He definitely didn't say that.

Which devs have said the PS5 memory arrangement is better? Simpler, yes, but better for performance? I'll bet none.

If a 2% clock drop is saving 10% power then at 2.23Ghz they are waaaaaaay up the voltage frequency curve.

 

[pasterpl]

How many times I got asleep in a loading screen after PS1.

narcolepsy?

 

[Darius87]

as for now stands:
cpu is 2.8 % faster in xsex
gpu is 15% better in xsex
ram size are the same but bandwidth is 50% higher for xsex(which is crazy)
ssd is 56.4% faster for ps5(this is also crazy)
ray tracing is 15.6% better in xsex

clearly these machines should seperate 100$ if not i think sony is in big trouble unless they have some crazy exclussives anyway i'm still buying ps5 because of exclussives. but yea looks like sony cheapen out for ps5 and lost power advantage on paper, though real performance is unknown? my only hope for ps5 that it will not look like a mini fridge and doesn't exceed 450$.

 

[Deeper Underground]

Any idea what cerny meant with 825gb is the most natural size on a 12ch interface

He was talking about the SSD size. Basically he’s saying the SSD is 1TB, but the amount of space being used will be 825GB. He kinda worded it weirdly.

 

[FranXico]

What if MS pulls off the impossible and puts the XsX out at $399 alongside the PS5?

Hardly unthinkable. Nadella sees the consoles as trojans for subscriptions.

 

[Cobbet]

now, since we know the specs can anyone try to estimate the actual cost of these?

I think they will be pretty close to eachother in price. Sonys ssd, cooling (wich works) and new ds5 will drive up the price of ps5. Xbox is a monster so I asume it will cost alot. My guess would be at best 499$ for both or at worst 599$.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Yikes so like 99% of these leaks and insiders were completely full of crap?

The only ones that were even close were the 9.2 to 10~ and there were very few of them.

Even the Bryttany Messina leak started out reasonable but then went out into B.S. land.

So strange how this all turned out.

The closet speculators were anyone believing the original 9.2tf Oberon leak, which in that chart goes back to a Digital Foundry article from April 2019! So almost a year old. The data was right there, but few people believed it.

All Sony did the past 12 months is figure out how to upclock the gpu 10% to get to 2.23ghz --> 10.3tf. If they didn't there's the 9.2tf.

And you can tell the entire PS5 structure can't even handle that gpu boost all the time, since there is that weird balancing cpu/gpu thing it's got to do because it cant sustain the cpu at 3.5 ghz, and gpu at 2.23 ghz 100% of the time.

It looks like they were able to adjust the gpu clock speed to a high max speed, in return for having the system automatically adjust the cpu downward if both cpu and gpu are trying to max each other out too much............. or at least something along those lines.

 

[Rolling_Start]

If a 2% clock drop is saving 10% power then at 2.23Ghz they are waaaaaaay up the voltage frequency curve.

I think of them as explorers, going where no man has gone before.

 

[vdopey]

I agree, sort of. Sony will sell the most, no matter what, but price is a deciding factor of course.

But what are you basing the 399, 450, 500 and 600$ prices on?

$399 or $400 for ps5 im basing on ps4 price (399.99 is 400 stupid marketing)
$499or $500 (499.99 is 500 stupid marketing) is what the xbox1 came out at
$600 is something I heard from 1 of the massive xbox fan channels, ign editor -> this guy when he was on some panel discussing price breakdowns.

I very much doubt they will release at $600 if the PS5 was around 12 / 13TF I think both would be looking at around $600 and both would be selling at a slight profit.

I think it will be around $500 for xsx anything more and they will haemorrhage a lot of money per sale.

they can price match the $399, but it comes down to how much money they can make back from games sales, otherwise the board at MS will have to explain to shareholders why they allow the xbox to post such massive losses.

 

[splattered]

Hardly unthinkable. Nadella sees the consoles as trojans for subscriptions.

Regardless of his intentions if this came true it would be a huge win for gamers.

 

[SonGoku]

PS5 IO complex is huge, no wonder they used a small GPU. Any comparisons with SEX?

He was talking about the SSD size. Basically he’s saying the SSD is 1TB, but the amount of space being used will be 825GB. He kinda worded it weirdly.

But what about the 12ch? does it mean size can be in multiples of 825gb?

 

[Kagero]

What if MS pulls off the impossible and puts the XsX out at $399 alongside the PS5?

PS5 will still sell more at the same price IMO.

 

[DaGwaphics]

I get the bad feeling that it may be $500-$600 ranges and hence the reason for a 2nd SKU.

Probably spot on, the cheapskate in me is shaking, but with what we are getting you can't really expect anything less.

 

[Investor9872]

my ps4 pro and xbx are both quiet and barely noticeable

Depends on what game you're playing. Stick Call of Duty Modern Warfare in there, and get to the multiplayer lobby loading screen, and then get back to us.

 

[LucidFlux]

Any idea what cerny meant with 825gb is the most natural size on a 12ch interface

Each of the 12 channels feeds its own flash die which gives us roughly 68.75GB storage per die totaling 825GB in capacity. I'm guessing they stopped at 12 because it satisfied their bandwidth goals and still provides adequate enough total storage capacity, especially considering the redundancy of assets in game files will be drastically reduced.

 

[TheAmazingSpiderMan]

He was talking about the SSD size. Basically he’s saying the SSD is 1TB, but the amount of space being used will be 825GB. He kinda worded it weirdly.

They definitely should have worded it better, most people think it will come as advertised as 825GB, we know when you buy storage lets say 1TB they never come with exactly 1TBs free, I have a 512GB SSD but in reality it's about 480GBs that I can actually use.

 

[splattered]

PS5 will still sell more at the same price IMO.

Definitely but probably not at a 3:1 rate... I think it would bring the gap much closer right out of the gate.

All depends on how MS and Sony handle their respective marketing between now and launch.

 

[TBiddy]

$399 or $400 for ps5 im basing on ps4 price (399.99 is 400 ffs)
$500 or $499 is what the xbox1 came out at
$600 is something I heard from 1 of the massive xbox fan channels, ign editor -> this guy when he was on some panel discussing price breakdowns.

I very much doubt they will release at $600 if the PS5 was around 12 / 13TF I think both would be looking at around $600 and both would be selling at a slight profit.

I think it will be around $500 for xsx anything more and they will haemorrhage a lot of money per sale.

they can price match the $399, but it comes down to how much money they can make back from games sales, otherwise the board at MS will have to explain to shareholders why they allow the xbox to post such massive losses.

Makes good sense yeah. Although I'd argue that the 499$ for the XB1 was due to the inclusion of the Kinect. Otherwise it'd probably been 399$ or 450$.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

$399 or $400 for ps5 im basing on ps4 price (399.99 is 400 stupid marketing)
$499or $500 (499.99 is 500 stupid marketing) is what the xbox1 came out at
$600 is something I heard from 1 of the massive xbox fan channels, ign editor -> this guy when he was on some panel discussing price breakdowns.

I very much doubt they will release at $600 if the PS5 was around 12 / 13TF I think both would be looking at around $600 and both would be selling at a slight profit.

I think it will be around $500 for xsx anything more and they will haemorrhage a lot of money per sale.

they can price match the $399, but it comes down to how much money they can make back from games sales, otherwise the board at MS will have to explain to shareholders why they allow the xbox to post such massive losses.

PS5 $400 and SeX $500 seems like the best bet to me.

More interesting is who is going to reveal price first? I think MS is going to wait it out, and set the price at PS5 + $100. But who knows.

 

[tryDEATH]

You got paid for this? You shouod smh. Some of the most vocal fanboys and Schills are Xbox fans as well so stop the bs and I'm glad you have full grasp of the potential of the hardware.

Thy definitely need to hire you lol

The Hall of Fame of trolls on this site is stacked with PS trolls you must not have been around lurking when this gen released and before the split.

thelastword has such status on here that he can probably be in the NeoGAF logo like Jerry West is in the NBA logo.

 

[M-V2]

It's funny how some people saying "less performance & quality" I mean the PS4 pro is weaker than Xbox one X in 40-50% & you can't see the difference until digital foundry zoom in 400x. The only game that showed the difference is Rdr2.

Now let's not talk about 16%

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

HeisenbergFX4 stayed like 90% of the time in the ~10TF range for PS5. Only recently he started to say he heard it could go higher than that, closer to 11-12TF (probably a bad source).

He's been the closest to the truth.

Thank you.

You and I talked often in PMs and for a long time I warned you of this.

I just thought the systems were going to be closer.

 

[Investor9872]

Haven't we already established that there is a shortage of flash memory, so prices will be sky high this year? Given that, and the fact that Cerny didn't reveal the price of the PS5, I'm guessing it will be expensive if launch this year (closer to $600 expensive). Now if Sony some how can delay the launch till next year, citing the Coronavirus pandemic putting a component supply chain constraint or something similar, then perhaps the PS5 will launch at $499 or even at $550.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Thank you.

You and I talked often in PMs and for a long time I warned you of this.

I just thought the systems were going to be closer.

There's so many insider claims on sites, I missed Heisenberg's 10tf.

Spot on. Well done.

 

[Steve.1981]

Now that we have specs and info on both new consoles... I think they both sound kind of cool. Xbox is going for max power and PlayStation seems to be aiming for something a bit weaker but a lot faster. It's interesting to see two different approaches. Like two performance engines tuned in different ways. I look forward to getting a first look at actual next gen gameplay.

It is disappointing that Sony haven't confirmed full backwards compatibility for at least PS4 titles. I'm someone who frequently returns to older games like Mass Effect. I'm pretty certain that I am going to want to replay Uncharted 4, for example, years from now. Hopefully they sort that out because MS are making all the right moves in that area, even to the point of automatically upgrading old titles at system level in their consoles. Which is just awesome.

I need to see some games now. Next gen eye candy. But I think it will still be quite a wait for that.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

There's so many insider claims on sites, I missed Heisenberg's 10tf.

Spot on. Well done.

I had said about a month ago I planted my flag at 10.5 but recently upped it to 11.2 based on things I heard.

I shouldn't have doubted my crazy birdie friend.

I did miss the both consoles within 10% of each other.

 

[Aceofspades]

as for now stands:
cpu is 2.8 % faster in xsex VS 6% for Xbox one last gen
gpu is 15% better in xsex VS 40% for PS4 last gen
ram size are the same but bandwidth is 22.2% higher for xsex(XsX has different speeds for ram 6Gb bw is less than PS5) VS 89% adv. For PS4 last gen
ssd is 65% faster for ps5(this is also crazy)
ray tracing is 15.6% better in xsex (on what basis? We don't know that exactly)

Audio chip is still unknown (Looks like PS5 might have big advantages there, yet to be seen)

Bolded fixed your percentages and added some perspective compared to last gen. People needs to know that those machines were never this close in power and they are trading blows in different areas.

 

[CrustyBritches]

Holy shit that AMD RDNA2 Ray Tracing demo is absolute trash.

Looks like a Ray traced reflections demo...in an alternate dimension where everything is made from Diet Pepsi cans.

3DMark did a much better job with their RT Reflection, RT Shadow demo "Port Royal"...


---
On a side note, the Apisak/Komachi/AquariusZi leaks were pretty much spot on. PS5 is probably just Oberon from the 2GHz/911MHz/800MHz Komachi leak, but since August 2019 they overclocked it by 200MHz.

 

[vdopey]

Definitely but probably not at a 3:1 rate... I think it would bring the gap much closer right out of the gate.

All depends on how MS and Sony handle their respective marketing between now and launch.

Playstation are the incumbent they are the current gen kings - and sales will be dependant on games as I said previously, all Sony has to do is demo the ssd tech using HZD 2 for ps5's to fly off the shelves, the hardcore ps / xbox fans will make initial sales huge but after that its down to those on the fence and if the ssd tech works as they claim and they demonstrate 1 or 2 1st party games that make perfect use of the ssd tech and the audio tech, lets not forget about vr and you can see where this is headed remember the gpu performance parity isnt huge, its not ideal and MS can shout about being the most powerful and market it hard, but I think Sony can do some sly marketing as well.

Its just Sony are really shit at marketing and seem to be even worse this generation.

 

[Fun Fanboy]

Definitely but probably not at a 3:1 rate... I think it would bring the gap much closer right out of the gate.

All depends on how MS and Sony handle their respective marketing between now and launch.

Don't forget a 249 Lockhart that plays all the same games as the big boy xbox!

 

[Kagero]

Definitely but probably not at a 3:1 rate... I think it would bring the gap much closer right out of the gate.

All depends on how MS and Sony handle their respective marketing between now and launch.

Agree 100%

 

[Aceofspades]

Definitely but probably not at a 3:1 rate... I think it would bring the gap much closer right out of the gate.

All depends on how MS and Sony handle their respective marketing between now and launch.

Xbox will never outsell PS in total sales, the good thing that MS might start reporting sales if they start doing well in the US.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Don't forget a 249 Lockhart that plays all the same as the big boy xbox!

$249? I think that's even cheaper than an Xbox One S!

I'll predict Lockhart $100 less than PS5.

Although if MS wants to use up some of those billions in profit and go for the juggular, Lockhart $249, SeX $399 (or at most matches PS5).

 

[Fake]

Look I still don't fucking get it:
All games work on BC or not?

Not at the launch. They're creating a list of the most played games to prioritize the BC method.

 

[CuriousToe]

On the hardware side not even upset it puts them in a pretty shit position for the entire generation though. They will be playing catch up and their is no sauce created that can span that gulf. XSeX is definitely more powerful. Also clearing up a bunch of bullshit Ive read PSV does constantly run in boost mode but I don't think that is a good thing. (Own Opinion) Cant imagine sustaining that high a clock speed is going to be quiet after hours of playing anything. Never cared who won will still be getting both systems for exclusives but XSeX should be the multiplat king.

Actually, what I meant with my question was what went wrong with your information. You were confident that PS5 was ahead.
So are your sources for hardware bad?
If so, what does this mean for your software predictions?

 

[ethomaz]

I wonder if the ssd as somewhat of a replacement of memory can be used to stream in 4k assets on the fly without any performance hit on the gpu?

I guess i wonder to what extent will the ssd help in graphics the normally would fall under the gpu?

If i ask dumb questions just ignore

You can direct get assets from SSD to GPU processing without need load into the RAM.
Besides that it is a new thing so devs have to discover how useful it will be.

I’m very excited to see how devs can envolve the game with these new tools.

 

[Deeper Underground]

Playstation are the incumbent they are the current gen kings - and sales will be dependant on games as I said previously, all Sony has to do is demo the ssd tech using HZD 2 for ps5's to fly off the shelves, the hardcore ps / xbox fans will make initial sales huge but after that its down to those on the fence and if the ssd tech works as they claim and they demonstrate 1 or 2 1st party games that make perfect use of the ssd tech and the audio tech, lets not forget about vr and you can see where this is headed remember the gpu performance parity isnt huge, its not ideal and MS can shout about being the most powerful and market it hard, but I think Sony can do some sly marketing as well.

Its just Sony are really shit at marketing and seem to be even worse this generation.

How is Sony shit at marketing if they have such a commanding lead? They’ve done several things that have benefited such as getting sponsorship of Champions League in Europe, actually devoting more marketing dollars to Europe in general, did better advertising of their tentpole titles, managed to get the marketing rights for Call of Duty away from MS, etc. I’d say they’ve done well. People are just saying they suck because they watched a technical dive meant for developers and assumed it was supposed to be like E3 with games and what not.

 

[splattered]

It's funny how some people saying "less performance & quality" I mean the PS4 pro is weaker than Xbox one X in 40-50% & you can't see the difference until digital foundry zoom in 400x. The only game that showed the difference is Rdr2.

Now let's not talk about 16%

You can easily tell a difference between Pro and X1X - no need to zoom in.

There's so many insider claims on sites, I missed Heisenberg's 10tf.

Spot on. Well done.

I felt he was always realistic and honest, I even told people to chill and stop attacking him when some members were getting upset.

The other insiders just felt fake to me, didn't realize how many there were and how they were all spouting the same upper limit guesses.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Don't forget a 249 Lockhart that plays all the same games as the big boy xbox!

My bet is $299 but its coming.

 

[ethomaz]

narcolepsy?

I play mostly at mid-night so I always sleep playing just that load time makes you get asleep for some minutes... sometimes even hours lol
That didn’t happen with SNES for example.