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[sinnergy]

22 GB\s sounds even more honest.

 

[chilichote]

Question:
XSeX has around 50% more CUs/Shaders but only 25% RAM bandwith. Is that 25% more bandwith enough for the 50% more CUs/Shader?

 

[sinnergy]

xbox = 52 CU
PS5 = 36CU


Says a fanboy?

These are GAMING consoles, not HEY LOOK AT MY TFLOPS! consoles.

So saying one is "best all around" without seeing games, controllers and full reveals = useless trolling.

We already know that PS5 have faster/better SSD, so please explain how xbox is best all around?

and controllers, some like weird xbox stick placement made for mutants, some like symmetrical playstation stick placement made for humans

So there isnt "best all around" console, and specs dont matter much, games will. And we know which system have been more popular among gamers on this gen and which havent.

Pro vs X = cheaper and less powerful system sold more.

Just dont say "best all around" when it is lying and complete bullshit.

Maybe it is just too difficult for xbox fans to admit that even with better specs on some parts = they are still on the losing side because Sony is just much more popular on global scale?

Sony would have to fuck up badly to lose badly, it is about that, not like "if xbox does its best it can win vs Sony at its best"

Xbox can be clear winner probably only in the situation where Playstation does something really horribly wrong, and it doesnt look like it at the moment

I was more right than most here the past year . GITHUB was real, like I said smoke/fire .

And it looks like they scrambled to overclock, when they saw 12 TF and CU count in that same leak. this system would be balanced at 9.2!TF 2 GHZ as originally planned.

Wide is better than fast and narrow, one X proved this. Stable clocks is also better, throttling sucks even on my expensive MacBook Pro, just saying .

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Question:
XSeX has around 50% more CUs/Shaders but only 25% RAM bandwith. Is that 25% more bandwith enough for the 50% more CUs/Shader?

Probably bcos those extra CUs are clocked 400Mhz lower than PS5's and RDNA2 has no doubt better memory compression compared to RDNA1.

 

[megreotsugua]

There's a lot of confusion on why SSD is so important for next-gen and how it will change things.
Here I will try to explain the main concepts.
TL;DR fast SSD is a game changing feature, this generation will be fun to watch!

It was working fine before, why do we even need that?
No, it wasn't fine, it was a giant PITA for anything other than small multiplayer maps or fighting games.
Let's talk some numbers. Unfortunately not many games have ever published their RAM pools and asset pools to the public, but some did.
Enter Killzone: Shadowfall Demo presentation.
We have roughly the following:

Type Approx. Size, % Approx. Size, MB
Textures 30% 1400
CPU working set 15% 700
GPU working set 25% 1200
Streaming pool 10% 500
Sounds 10% 450
Meshes 10% 450
Animations/Particles 1% 45

*These numbers are rounded sums of various much more detailed numbers presented in the article above.

We are interested in the "streaming pool" number here (but we will talk about others too)
We have ~500MB of data that is loaded as the demo progresses, on the fly.
The whole chunk of data that the game samples from (for that streaming process) is 1600MB.
The load speed of PS4 drive is (compressed data) <50MB/sec (uncompressed is <20MB/sec), i.e. it will take >30sec to load that at least.

It seems like it's not that big of a problem, and indeed for demo it is. But what about the game?
The game size is ~40GB, you have 6.5GB of usable RAM, you cannot load the whole game, even if you tried.
So what's left? We can either stream things in, or do a loading screen between each new section.
Let's try the easier approach: do a loading screen
We have 6.5GB of RAM, and the resident set is ~2GB from the table above (GPU + CPU working set). We need to load 4.5GB each time. It's 90 seconds, pretty annoying, but it's the best case. Any time you need to load things not sequentially, you will need to seek the drive and the time will increase.
You can't go back, as it will re-load things and - another loading screen.
You can't use more than 4.5GB assets in your whole gaming section, or you will need another loading screen.
It gets even more ridiculous if your levels are dynamic: left an item in previous zone? Load time will increase (item is not built into the gaming world, we load the world, then we seek for each item/item group on disk).
Remember Skyrim? Loading into each house? That's what will happen.
So, loading screens are easy, but if your game is not a linear, static, theme-park style attraction it gets ridiculous pretty fast.

How to we stream then?
We have a chunk of memory (remember 500Mb) that's reserved for streaming things from disk.
With our 50MB/sec speed we fill it up each 10 sec.
So, each 10 sec we can have a totally new data in RAM.
Let's do some metrics, for example: how much new shit we can show to the player in 1 min? Easy: 6*500 = 3GB
How much old shit player sees each minute? Easy again: 1400+450+450+45=~ 2.5GB
So we have a roughly 50/50 old to new shit on screen.
Reused monsters? assets? textures? NPCs? you name it. You have the 50/50 going on.

But PS4 has 6.5GB of RAM, we used only 4.5GB till now, what about other 2GB?
Excellent question!
The answer is: it goes to the old shit. Because if we increase the streaming buffer to 1.5GB it still does nothing to the 50MB/sec speed.
With the full 6.5GB we get to 6GB old vs 3GB new in 1 minute. Which is 2:1 old shit wins.

But what about 10 minutes?
Good, good. Here we go!
In 10 min we can get to 30GB new shit vs 6GB old.
And that's, my friends, how the games worked last gen.
You're as a player were introduced to the new gaming moments very gradually.
Or, there were some tricks they used: open doors animation.
Remember Uncharted with all the "let's open that heavy door for 15sec?" that's because new shit needs to load, players need to get to a new location, but we cannot load it fast.

So, what about SSDs then?
We will answer that later.
Let's ask something else.

What about 4K?
With 4K "GPU working set" will grow 4x, at least.
We are looking at 1200*4 = 4.8GB of GPU data.
CPU working set will also grow (everybody wants these better scripts and physics I presume?) but probably 2x only, to 700*2 = ~1.5GB
So overall the persistent memory will be well over 6GB, let's say 6.5GB.
That leaves us with ~5GB of free RAM in XSeX and ~8GB for PS5.

Stop, stop! Why PS5 has more RAM suddenly?
That's simple.
XSeX RAM is divided into two pools (logically, physically it's the same RAM): 10GB and 3.5GB.
GPU working set must use the 10GB pool (it's the memory set that absolutely needs the fast bandwidth).
So 10 - 4.8 = 5.2 which is ~5GB
CPU working set will use 3.5GB pool and we will have a spare 2GB there for other things.
We may load some low freq data there, like streaming meshes and stuff, but it will hard to use in each frame: accessing that data too frequently will lower the whole system bandwidth to 336Mb/sec.
That's why MSFT calls the 10GB pool "GPU optimal".

But what about PS5? It also has some RAM reserved for the system? It should be ~14GB usable!
Nope, sorry.
PS5 has a 5.5GB/sec flash drive. That typically loads 2GB in 0.27 sec. It's write speed is lower, but not less than 5.5GB/sec raw.
What PS5 can do, and I would be pretty surprised if Sony won't do it. Is to save the system image to the disk while the game is playing.
And thus give almost full 16GB of RAM to the game.
2GB system image will load into RAM in <1 sec (save 2GB game data to disk in 0.6 sec + load system from disk 0.3 sec). Why keep it resident?
But I'm on the safe side here. So it's ~14.5GB usable for PS5.

Hmm, essentially MSFT can do that too?
Yep, they can. The speeds will be less sexy but not more than ~3sec, I think.
Why don't they do it? Probably they rely on OS constantly running on the background for all the services it provides.
That's why I gave Sony 14.5GB.
But I have hard time understanding why 2.5GB is needed, all the background services can run on a much smaller RAM footprint just fine, and UI stuff can load on-demand.

Can we talk about SSD for games now?
Yup.
So, let's get to the numbers again.
For XSeX ~5GB of "free" RAM we can divide it into 2 parts: resident and streaming.
Why two? Because typically you cannot load shit into frame while frame is rendering.
GPU is so fast, that each time you ask GPU "what exact memory location are you reading now?" will slow it down to give you an answer.

But can you load things into other part while the first one is rendering?
Absolutely. You can switch "resident" and "streaming" part as much as you like, if it's fast enough.
Anyway, we got to 50/50 of "new shit" to "old shit" inside 1 second now!
2.5GB of resident + 2.5GB of streaming pool and it takes XSeX just 1 sec to completely reload the streaming part!
In 1 min we have 60:1 of new/old ratio!
Nice!

What about PS5 then? Is it just 2x faster and that's it?
Not really.
The whole 8GB of the RAM we have "free" can be a "streaming pool" on PS5.

But you said "we cannot load while frame is rendering"?
In XSeX, yes.
But in PS5 we have GPU cache scrubbers.
This is a piece of silicon inside the GPU that will reload our assets on the fly while GPU is rendering the frame.
It has full access to where and what GPU is reading right now (it's all in the GPU cache, hence "cache scrubber")
It will also never invalidate the whole cache (which can still lead to GPU "stall") but reload exactly the data that changed (I hope you've listened to that part of Cerny's talk very closely).

But it's free RAM size doesn't really matter, we still have 2:1 of old/new in one frame, because SSD is only 2x faster?
Yes, and no.
We do have only 2x faster rates (although the max rates are much higher for PS5: 22GB/sec vs 6GB/sec)
But the thing is, GPU can render from 8GB of game data. And XSeX - only from 2.5GB, do you remember that we cannot render from the "streaming" part while it loads?
So in any given scene, potentially, PS5 can have 2x to 3x more details/textures/assets than XSeX.
Yes, XSeX will render it faster, higher FPS or higher frame-buffer resolution (not both, perf difference is too low).
But the scene itself will be less detailed, have less artwork.

OMG, can MSFT do something about it?
Of course they will, and they do!
What are the XSeX advantages? More ALU power (FLOPS) more RT power, more CPU power.
What MSFT will do: rely heavily on this power advantage instead of the artwork: more procedural stuff, more ALU used for physics simulation (remember, RT and lighting is a physics simulation too, after all).
More compute and more complex shaders.

So what will be the end result?
It's pretty simple.
PS5: relies on more artwork and pushing more data through the system. Potentially 2x performance in that.
XSeX: relies more on in-frame calculations, procedural. Potentially 30% performance in that.
Who will win: dunno. There are pros and cons for each.
It will be a fun generation indeed. Much more fun than the previous one, for sure.

Omg omg!!!!

I'm so hyyyyyyppppeee!!!

Give me HZD2, Spider-man2 and GOW2 now!

I want to see all those insanely detailed textures!

No more PC next-gen. I will buy an SSD expansion.

 

[VanSiriusGabriel]

I was more right than most here the past year . GITHUB was real, like I said smoke/fire .

And it looks like they scrambled to overclock, when they saw 12 TF and CU count in that same leak. this system would be balanced at 9.2!TF 2 GHZ as originally planned.

Wide is better than fast and narrow, one X proved this. Stable clocks is also better, throttling sucks even on my expensive MacBook Pro, just saying .

I think you didn't get that clocks ARE stable, they will not change randomly, variable means devs can choose the clocks and move the power between CPU and GPU. It's not some PC shit depending on heat or whatnot.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

So basically it will be implemented in 30, maybe 40 games per ps5 lifecycle and it doesn't matter for multiplat - which is the wast majority of games on the market. So tradeoff in gpu for better ssd isn't so worthy in that department. I just hope that the difference will be only in resolution part and fps and other things that affect input delay and "feel" of the game won't suffer because of that.

I think you didn't read it all, which is ok. But if you didn't get it then it applies to all PS5 games, it's systematic.

 

[pasterpl]

Why Google Stadia could spell trouble for the PS5 and Xbox Two

No box, no problem: a new way of thinking about what "next generation" means

www.techradar.com

 

[Aceofspades]

0% difference
5~25% difference
30~50% difference
55~75% difference
80~100% difference

Fantastic post

 

[Agnostic2020]

I was more right than most here the past year . GITHUB was real, like I said smoke/fire .

And it looks like they scrambled to overclock, when they saw 12 TF and CU count in that same leak. this system would be balanced at 9.2!TF 2 GHZ as originally planned.

Wide is better than fast and narrow, one X proved this. Stable clocks is also better, throttling sucks even on my expensive MacBook Pro, just saying .

lol one X and pro are almost identical CU wise . and one x is clocked higher . just saying

 

[sinnergy]

I think you didn't get that clocks ARE stable, they will not change randomly, variable means devs can choose the clocks and move the power between CPU and GPU. It's not some PC shit depending on heat or whatnot.

Not always, you could do it per scene basis, but that would be to much work. You could choose to do it per level , you could fix for your game alway low clock one or the other . Or always lock blazing at 9.2 GHz like stress tested .

Still feels like a scramble .

 

[sinnergy]

lol one X and pro are almost identical CU wise . and one x is clocked higher . just saying

Not true, almost everything is wider. It also depends on what was available.

 

[thelastword]

On PS5's custom Geometry Engine inside its GPU, a principle software engineer had this to say:

That's why I said in another thread that the Geometry Engine is huge, not only does it handle mesh shading, but it frees up so much performance, freeing up unseen parts of geometry in realtime…….The Geometry engine is one of the PS5's primary custom features......You will hear devs praising this time after time as next gen rolls on...….It's pretty much the evolution of PS4 PRO's geometry rendering...….PS4 PRO had something called the Primitive discard accelerator which culls triangles from the scene that aren't visible, they had the Delta Color Correction which saved bandwidth and they also had the ID buffer which tracked triangles and objects and cleaned up the rendered image on the fly...….The geometry Engine is pretty much accomplishing these tasks, but it's pretty much a more complex Primitive Discard Accelerator on steroids……..

Well this confirm VRS, I can swear Cerny sometimes is not bes spokesperson mentioned so many things but was not able to even put in a page of the presentation things like that.

Well VRS is the least of anyone's worries...….It's part of RDNA 2.0, it's available on everything from MS Direct X 12 to Vulkan to Nvidia GPU's to AMD GPU's to Intel upcoming GPU's......VRS will be similar to AF next gen, everybody will have it, it's not something that will be exclusive to any company, besides all companies will have their spin on it......AMD's VRS is pretty interesting at this point and it's going to enhanced significantly via their Fidelity FX software suite on their GPU's...

At this point, VRS is simply a standard api feature......I think there was no need for Cerny to focus on that, speaking on the Geometry Engine is something more custom for PS5 and that was his focus, the GE will be much more important than VRS anyway, if anything it will enhance VRS in ways the other box can't and lighten the load in realtime even more...….

That speech was more focused on devs with Cerny highlighting the key PS5 features (albeit the key features that differentiate itself from the competition or moreso against the PS4, the improvements or vision of PS5, not features that are commonplace to all, like VRS)…….I do think there's a lot we don't know about PS5 yet, even specs and hardware....PS4 PRO had 1 GB for swapping apps, it had a media chip and also CB hardware......I think when they detail the OS and features we will get even more info on other aspects, especially what powers the OS and media features in hardware.....Jim Ryan said the most important features has not been unveiled yet, Schreier speaks about the impressive OS features, which I think will contain an emulator for prior PS3/PS2/PS1...…..The controller will be another piece of hardware that will be an impressive unveiling based on their innovations there, their new camera will be something amazing too.....All of that is hardware and of course all the ports the PS5 will come with, it's Wifi, it's VR port and what that will mean when they debut PSVR2, which is also an interesting piece of hardware I'm looking forward too.....


So yes, there's a lot they still have to unveil, it would never make sense to reveal everything now as there's still lots of time ahead....They need to keep some impressive stuff closer to their chest before launch......In hindsight, I'm glad they chose to do their TF reveal after MS did theirs, get people talking about the TF wars now, and as you can see people are already beginning to see that TF is not everything in the next gen war because of all the custom engineering on PS5....The scope of discussion is much larger, because the consoles are designed quite differently, so discussion is even more potent now...….Devs, forumners are all engaging.....It's nice to see as opposed to people who just wanted to conclude my console is greater than yours because of a higher TF number, they now see it's just not so simple this time....

 

[VanSiriusGabriel]

Not always, you could do it per scene basis, but that would be to much work. You could choose to do it per level , you could fix for your game alway low clock one or the other . Or always lock blazing at 9.2 GHz like stress tested .

Still feels like a scramble .

Yes, but I really don't get all this "9.2!!!"
We don't know form factor and cooling, the devs could be actually be able to stay around max clock most of the time, which is also what Cerny confirmed.
Damn, there are so much things we know shit yet some people acting like they are already using PS5.

 

[sinnergy]

For all the hype , the reveal and tech is an over complicated mess to be honest, not a clean design at all as PS4.

Something went terrible wrong.

 

[Agnostic2020]

Yes, but I really don't get all this "9.2!!!"
We don't know form factor and cooling, the devs could be actually be able to stay around max clock most of the time, which is also what Cerny confirmed.
Damn, there are so much things we know shit yet some people acting like they are already using PS5.

there is no 9.2 . he said IF needed under rare circumstances PS5 clock drops by 2% to reduce electrical power draw by 10% so cooling system can stay quiet .

so 10.28 and under rare circumstances 10.08

 

[Agnostic2020]

For all the hype , the reveal and tech is an over complicated mess to be honest, not a clean design at all as PS4.

Something went terrible wrong.

or their machine will keep up with XSX in Multi platform ,shine in exclusives and they will price it lower ?sounds like smart engineering to me

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

So basically it will be implemented in 30, maybe 40 games per ps5 lifecycle and it doesn't matter for multiplat - which is the wast majority of games on the market. So tradeoff in gpu for better ssd isn't so worthy in that department. I just hope that the difference will be only in resolution part and fps and other things that affect input delay and "feel" of the game won't suffer because of that.

By your logic no XSX games for the first 2 years can utilise its 12tflops of power as they all need to run on XB1's 1.2tflop, 5400rpm HDD design

 

[lepermessiah]

https://www.pcgameshardware.de/Play...GZeUTDouoAst7NeWSHs5EokTGg#Echobox=1584688600

Teraflops doesn't matter, ex-Crytek programmers say

 

[megreotsugua]

That's why I said in another thread that the Geometry Engine is huge, not only does it handle mesh shading, but it frees up so much performance, freeing up unseen parts of geometry in realtime…….The Geometry engine is one of the PS5's primary custom features......You will hear devs praising this time after time as next gen rolls on...….It's pretty much the evolution of PS4 PRO's geometry rendering...….PS4 PRO had something called the Primitive discard accelerator which culls triangles from the scene that aren't visible, they had the Delta Color Correction which saved bandwidth and they also had the ID buffer which tracked triangles and objects and cleaned up the rendered image on the fly...….The geometry Engine is pretty much accomplishing these tasks, but it's pretty much a more complex Primitive Discard Accelerator on steroids……..


Well VRS is the least of anyone's worries...….It's part of RDNA 2.0, it's available on everything from MS Direct X 12 to Vulkan to Nvidia GPU's to AMD GPU's to Intel upcoming GPU's......VRS will be similar to AF next gen, everybody will have it, it's not something that will be exclusive to any company, besides all companies will have their spin on it......AMD's VRS is pretty interesting at this point and it's going to enhanced significantly via their Fidelity FX software suite on their GPU's...

At this point, VRS is simply a standard api feature......I think there was no need for Cerny to focus on that, speaking on the Geometry Engine is something more custom for PS5 and that was his focus, the GE will be much more important than VRS anyway, if anything it will enhance VRS in ways the other box can't and lighten the load in realtime even more...….

That speech was more focused on devs with Cerny highlighting the key PS5 features (albeit the key features that differentiate itself from the competition or moreso against the PS4, the improvements or vision of PS5, not features that are commonplace to all, like VRS)…….I do think there's a lot we don't know about PS5 yet, even specs and hardware....PS4 PRO had 1 GB for swapping apps, it had a media chip and also CB hardware......I think when they detail the OS and features we will get even more info on other aspects, especially what powers the OS and media features in hardware.....Jim Ryan said the most important features has not been unveiled yet, Schreier speaks about the impressive OS features, which I think will contain an emulator for prior PS3/PS2/PS1...…..The controller will be another piece of hardware that will be an impressive unveiling based on their innovations there, their new camera will be something amazing too.....All of that is hardware and of course all the ports the PS5 will come with, it's Wifi, it's VR port and what that will mean when they debut PSVR2, which is also an interesting piece of hardware I'm looking forward too.....


So yes, there's a lot they still have to unveil, it would never make sense to reveal everything now as there's still lots of time ahead....They need to keep some impressive stuff closer to their chest before launch......In hindsight, I'm glad they chose to do their TF reveal after MS did theirs, get people talking about the TF wars now, and as you can see people are already beginning to see that TF is not everything in the next gen war because of all the custom engineering on PS5....The scope of discussion is much larger, because the consoles are designed quite differently, so discussion is even more potent now...….Devs, forumners are all engaging.....It's nice to see as opposed to people who just wanted to conclude my console is greater than yours because of a higher TF number, they now see it's just not so simple this time....

You had me hyped on the GEOMETRY ENGINE being custom to PS5.

So, it's true, PS5 might actually perform better than XSEX.

 

[DaGwaphics]

and controllers, some like weird xbox stick placement made for mutants, some like symmetrical playstation stick placement made for humans

I wish I could find that medical study that Nintendo had completed when deciding on their configuration for the Switch (tried but can't find it now). It showed the opposite, that the human thumb has more independent movement when positioned asymmetrically, with the right and left side of your brain tripping over each other more with both thumbs turned in. This effect is somewhat obvious by simply twiddling your thumbs in both positions, while trying to have independent movements on both thumbs. In both instances you can't completely do it , but symmetrical is worse for most.

 

[Aceofspades]

0% difference
5~25% difference
30~50% difference
55~75% difference
80~100% difference

Although there is one glaring issue with those specs:

XsX CPU is 3.6Ghz SMT ( multi threaded) , 3.8Ghz single threaded which won't be used except for few indie games and BC.

PS5 is 3.5Ghz SMT, they never mentioned single thread performance.

Proper comparison would be 3.6 vs 3.5Ghz

 

[sinnergy]

or their machine will keep up with XSX in Multi platform ,shine in exclusives and they will price it lower ?sounds like smart engineering to me

Yes it’s totally a 399 machine .

 

[Aceofspades]

https://www.pcgameshardware.de/Play...GZeUTDouoAst7NeWSHs5EokTGg#Echobox=1584688600

Teraflops doesn't matter, ex-Crytek programmers say

Pfffff another Sony first de......oh wait

 

[Agnostic2020]

Yes it’s totally a 399 machine .

they have to take 110$ loss but they might. lets see. i see 450 more reasonable.

 

[Physiognomonics]

0% difference
5~25% difference
30~50% difference
55~75% difference
80~100% difference

XSX will have most likely 64 Rops, not 80 rops. Because the Rops are grouped by shader array: 4 (and not by number of CUs).

 

[sinnergy]

they have to take 110$ loss but they might. lets see. i see 450 more reasonable.

Doesn’t matter , still a 399 machine to bad that components got more expensive.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

For all the hype , the reveal and tech is an over complicated mess to be honest, not a clean design at all as PS4.

Something went terrible wrong.

Well, it'll all show up through the games.

 

[sinnergy]

XSX will have most likely 64 Rops, not 80 rops. Because the Rops are grouped by shader array: 4 (and not by number of CUs).

80 is not out of the question , ms gpu looks more like big navi.

 

[sinnergy]

Pfffff another Sony first de......oh wait

So it runs as a 11 TF machine !

 

[Bo_Hazem]

By your logic no XSX games for the first 2 years can utilise its 12tflops of power as they all need to run on XB1's 1.2tflop, 5400rpm HDD design

It'll extend to 7 years when anchored by Lockhart, the gaming industry nightmare.

 

[Swaganizonda]

By your logic no XSX games for the first 2 years can utilise its 12tflops of power as they all need to run on XB1's 1.2tflop, 5400rpm HDD design

MS confirmed everything to be cross gen for the next two years, so everything is limited by the 900p machine of theirs.

After that, xsx little brother with 4 Tflops also needs to run next gen stuff around the 900~1080p mark. So there will always be something much weaker to be taken into consideration.

 

[Daniel_Mallorca1985]

0% difference
5~25% difference
30~50% difference
55~75% difference
80~100% difference

2.4 GB/s bad???

 

[Kumomeme]

just wondering, did cerny focusing on higher frequency gpu clock is also something related to bc? for example for ps3 emulation or stuff infuture...usually emulators on pc did had advantages over higher cpu clock..but thats cpu..wondering about the higher frequency gpu decision over more cpu...he claim better rasterization and stuff

 

[geordiemp]

Probably bcos those extra CUs are clocked 400Mhz lower than PS5's and RDNA2 has no doubt better memory compression compared to RDNA1.

Over at beyond3d quite a few posts about lack of memory bandwidth per CU on both systems hit hard by memory prices is a possibilitya dn both were MAYBE higher spec and took a cut...

Ps5 could do with 16gb/s modules ...

And Series X is really should have had larger memory for that bus, as access to > 10 RAM will slow things down as its not a separate bus for CP and GPU like PCs, unless the game < 10.

Probably both bandwidth starved ?

 

[VanSiriusGabriel]

So the Geometry Engine is dedicated only to PS5? Because I understood that SeX also has it but with a different name, also with VRS.

 

[Rudius]

https://www.pcgameshardware.de/Play...GZeUTDouoAst7NeWSHs5EokTGg#Echobox=1584688600

Teraflops doesn't matter, ex-Crytek programmers say

Can you translate?

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Ok the HYPE TRAIN is up and runnin! Due to recent pandemic, only phones* are allowed to avoid more spread of COVID-19.

*Sony cellphones only.

 

[Daniel_Mallorca1985]

 

[pasterpl]

It'll extend to 7 years when anchored by Lockhart, the gaming industry nightmare.

o’dium explained it why this is not the case, it is wishful thinking of SDF

I have got a feeling that this whole SSD stuff is “power of the cloud” and the cell all over again and some people here are trying very hard to convince others that their favourite plastic box is “da best”, it is like, if you will keep repeating same thing 100s of times it will become reality.

 

[CuriousToe]

To be honest, I think both will be so close to being equal om 3rd party games that there won't be any reason to buy one over the other purely for 3rd party quality. Previous console - so game library - ownership is probably the main factor.

I agree. But I still think it's worth addressing, particularly because there seems to be some over zealous people here.

 

[Shmunter]

XSX will have most likely 64 Rops, not 80 rops. Because the Rops are grouped by shader array: 4 (and not by number of CUs).

So PS5 would have higher fill rate due to faster clock? That would be quite a turn of events. Less compute but more rez & and frames??

 

[kyliethicc]

So the Geometry Engine is dedicated only to PS5? Because I understood that SeX also has it but with a different name, also with VRS.

I’m pretty sure it’s just RDNA 2 mesh shaders. I think it’s a form of procedural geometry creation or something. It should help artists, some dev was tweeting about that (earlier in thread I think.) So while maybe PS5 and XSX will have unique versions, I think it’s just a normal AMD tool. Same w/ VRS.

 

[Goliathy]

https://www.pcgameshardware.de/Play...GZeUTDouoAst7NeWSHs5EokTGg#Echobox=1584688600

Teraflops doesn't matter, ex-Crytek programmers say

uuh, you played yourself bruh

so, its based on this tweet:

so, yeah he says:

"Lots of RAM, and as a modern a CPU and GPU as is reasonable certainly helps"

but of COURSE other things like, time/budget/staff helps matter too.

SO, he says TFLpos not only matter, but things like time/budget/staff etc. are MORE important. TRUE, of course. wtf is this crap.
If devs have the same time/budget/staff for PS5 vs Xbox Series X then Xbox Series X will be better according to his argumentation.

He NEVER mentions SSD or anything like that, only that RAM, CPU, GPU (where Xbox Series X is BETTER than PS5) are more important and as important as time/budget/staff, because the better CPU/RAM/GPU is, the less team do you need to optimize

Especially if you have an architecture with variable frequencies like PS5, well then these games will actually look worse than PS5, because optimizing that takes more time and is harder..

 

[VanSiriusGabriel]

So PS5 would have higher fill rate due to faster clock? That would be quite a turn of events. Less compute but more rez & and frames??

Seems kinda too good, if high clocks can overcome 40% more CU then why having more CU in more space that costs more? For cooling?

 

[sinnergy]

So PS5 would have higher fill rate due to faster clock? That would be quite a turn of events. Less compute but more rez & and frames??

PS4 pro has this advantage over X, just saying,

 

[Bo_Hazem]

uuh, you played yourself bruh

so, its based on this tweet:

so, yeah he says:

"Lots of RAM, and as a modern a CPU and GPU as is reasonable certainly helps"

but of COURSE other things like, time/budget/staff helps matter too.

SO, he says TFLpos not only matter, but things like time/budget/staff etc. are MORE important. TRUE, of course. wtf is this crap.
If devs have the same time/budget/staff for PS5 vs Xbox Series X then Xbox Series X will be better according to his argumentation.

He NEVER mentions SSD or anything like that, only that RAM, CPU, GPU (where Xbox Series X is BETTER than PS5) are more important and as important as time/budget/staff, because the better CPU/RAM/GPU is, the less team do you need to optimize

Especially if you have an architecture with variable frequencies like PS5, well then these games will actually look worse than PS5, because optimizing that takes more time and is harder..

Maybe he's just happy for both consoles? And don't see the GPU difference as a big deal? That what I understood.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

80 is not out of the question , ms gpu looks more like big navi.

Big Navi is 80CU and 96 ROPS. What the heck ROPS means, I don't know, but it's some of those short names that if it gets more it's better depending on how much workload expected?

 

[TheAmazingSpiderMan]

This upcoming gen looks to be more interesting than ever, Sony have gone a unique route and MS have gone the common route.

Each gen we’re always used to getting new hardware but with bumped up specs and number. Series X has done just that, everything is bumped up from previous gens, like the typical American way “more powaaaarr” bit like muscle cars, throw an insane engine in there but the handling is always rubbish.

Sony have gone more customised, a bit like a tuned Japanese car (skyline) power, but not over the top power, with other components to help, turbos etc (high clock speeds, LOADS of customised silicon).

Sony also have 2 separate engines, Tempest for sound and Geometry for shaders etc, it’ll be interesting to know how these 2 engine work as they should take the strain of the cpu and gpu.

we can only see how these two console behave once DF or some tech experts compare the games once released, we will definitely see some interesting differences.

 

[CJY]

Over at beyond3d quite a few posts about lack of memory bandwidth per CU on both systems hit hard by memory prices is a possibilitya dn both were MAYBE higher spec and took a cut...

Ps5 could do with 16gb/s modules ...

And Series X is really should have had larger memory for that bus, as access to > 10 RAM will slow things down as its not a separate bus for CP and GPU like PCs, unless the game < 10.

Probably both bandwidth starved ?

It's possible, but that's why the faster IO of PS5 will be so, so important. Seems XSX will be the more likely bandwidth starved trying to keep all those CUs fed.