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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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VanSiriusGabriel

VanSiriusGabriel

Member
kyliethicc said:
?
Click to expand...
Just saying you won't see the differences you may have seen between Uncharted 3 and Gears 3.
Aside from all this SSD shit that may change more how first parties are done on PS5 than on SeX, graphically they will go to micro levels so even if one is better than the other you will not notice, while on PS3 and 360 wasn't the case.
Here the art get the job done imho, I think Hellblade 2 is more impressive than Halo Infinite video but not because I noticed more details, simply because I like open fields more than a metal room.
 
Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
johnjohn said:
Thread title probably needs to be changed to Next Gen Damage Control lol.
Click to expand...

3tlrt9.jpg
 
M

Mynd

Neo Member
Bo_Hazem said:
Do you know that GDDR6 at a speed of 560GB/s will be bottlenecked by the slow 4.8GB/s, right? Unless XSX is going to install the game directly into GDDR6 (good luck with that) then that 560GB/s is wasted with multiple cycles to transfer the same amount compared to PS5, the result that 448GB/s will do it in 1 go and the 560GB/s will do it in 2 cycles (at least) making it 280GB/s in practice.

Keyword: BALANCED:messenger_sunglasses:
Click to expand...

I really think all you ”experts” should probably stop ranting about stuff you know nothing about.
”installing direct to ram and good luck with that? ” Look up DMA sometime.
Shakes head .

Your are ranting about two different things. One is access to memory from the CPU the other is access to memory from the hard drive.
If you don’t understand why the bandwidth from GPU (specifically) to memory is important then you don’t really understand graphics.
Look up frame buffer sometime.
 
ethomaz

ethomaz

Banned
Lone Wolf said:
Right, so 10GB at 560, used for GPU.
3.5GB at 336, used for CPU Audio etc.
2.5GB At 336 reserved for system OS.

we all know that only the GPU can take full advantage of the 560. The 336 is overkill for what it’s used for. ( the Xbox one X has less than 336 by the way) Unless the 10GB is not enough and starves the GPU, it’s not going to be a problem. Also, we have no idea how PS5 uses memory.
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It is a bit different.

CPU and I/O controller access 16GB RAM ar fixed speed (336GB/s?)
GPU access 10GB at 560GB/s and 6GB at 336GB/s.

MS was clear only the GPU has that special difference in access speed.
 
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xool

xool

Member
Mr Moose said:
Weird, would that be done to reduce cost like the PS4 slim? I hope PS5 has it, I am using DSS2 in my PS4 Pro at the moment. I could use USB I guess (if I can find my USB sound card thing that comes with HyperX II headphones).
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Must be costs - I think there's a licensing fee for toslink. 100,000,000 units x 10 cents per unit = 10million MS/Sony would rather keep for themselfs ..

I'm in the same boat.
 
ethomaz

ethomaz

Banned
SamWeb said:
"Microsoft's solution for the memory sub-system saw it deliver a curious 320-bit interface, with ten 14gbps GDDR6 modules on the mainboard - six 2GB and four 1GB chips. How this all splits out for the developer is fascinating." https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2020-inside-xbox-series-x-full-specs

All memory chips have the same speed. They just share the memory bus is not symmetrical.
Click to expand...
Yeap that is right.

It is just the 2GB modules shares the 32bits bus so the drop in speed when you try to access the final 1GB of these modules compared with the 1GB modules exclusives to 32bits bus and the start 1GB from the 2GB modules.

It is really weird setup maybe done to cut costs... a 320bits bus with 20GB RAM could have worked at full speed for any access.
 
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FranXico

FranXico

Member
K.N.W. said:
But.... Why the PS5 is a 2.23 GHZ GPU and 3.5 GHZ machine that slightly downclocks frequencies by a couple of % points when under heavy load, but everyone keeps saying that it does have a boost mode (upclock)??? We should rather say it's the opposite, Cerny clearly said it will spend most of the time at max frequencies. Instead people are spreading the 10.2 TFs at max, in best case scenario, meanwhile it's machine with less than 10.2 in worst case scenario. Please mind the words.
Click to expand...
Because they want it to go down to 8 or even 7TF. They wish for it intensely, with their whole heart.

7 years. Please understand.
 
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Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
Bogroll said:
Times really are hard when fanboys mention a better sound chip. Feels like I'm back in the 80s and early 90s.
Click to expand...

Ok, let's simplify it for you:

PS5 has a dedicated HARDWARE-BASED engine that frees traditional workload of up to 20% on CPU and GPU, making even much more room for them to work on the visual part:



It makes the opposite, offloads the work off the CPU/RAM to free them, but the main GPU still does the regular work up to 20%.
 
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M.Night Shyamalan

M.Night Shyamalan

Member
Coulomb_Barrier said:
That's almost guaranteed because of MS' stupid policy to make all Series X games run on a 1.2tflop machine as well, for 1 or 2 years.

Halo Infinite, from the little I have seen, looks like a current gen game with IQ pushed very high.
Click to expand...
you see... everyone knew the PS4 Pro is 4.2TF... but when they see TLOU2 , Ghosts, Uncharted 4... that looks better than what a SIX TF xbox One X can produce... well, they say fuck it, I buy what makes better graphics.

Its going to be a great generation... lots of crow to eat for doubters.
 
M

Marlenus

Member
squarealex said:
What the hell people think 448 Gb bandwich is bad ? Is the same as 2080 and almost 2080 SUPER.
And full at 16GB, all ACU run at the same speed on PS5 (unlike SX).

You want full 16 GB at 560 GDDR6 ? It's too much cost, even Microsoft can't doing this now.. You want a game console at 900€/$ ?

That's not the same story like shitty DDR3 on One Fat.
Click to expand...

Nvidia has better colour compression than AMD so they can get away with lower bandwidth Vs AMD.
 
M

Mynd

Neo Member
geordiemp said:
The bandwidth feeds 52 CU, so 560/52 .....per CU....Ps5 has better bandwidth per CU>

Then if the slow ram is used in game, Xbox is slower when using slower RAM, and it has 12 TF power to feed.

Dont get me wrong, Ps5 is constrained with 448, they both look highly suspect.

I think they will both be bandwidth constrained heavily and may perform with similar handicaps....is my wild guess.

Does it depends how good the compression is ? I no idea, but its interesting and not clear cut at all,
Click to expand...
Dividing the memory bandwidth by the CU’s?
What the hell does that prove? Lol.
Every single pixel pushed into the frame buffer requires access to it (likely multiple frame buffers with deferred rendering).
 
VanSiriusGabriel

VanSiriusGabriel

Member
Bo_Hazem said:
Ok, let's simplify it for you:

PS5 has a dedicated engine that frees traditional workload of up to 20% on CPU and GPU, making even much more room for them to work on the visual part:



You serious?
Click to expand...

My boi you are becoming aggressive.
Let everyone melts their minds on 3+ fps when the game doesn't run on 30\60 locked and 1800 p vs 2160 p with dynamic resolution, before patches do not optimize both versions.
Next gen.
 
xool

xool

Member
J

johnjohn

Member
I love how in the span of a week this thread went from caring about which console performance the best to which console has the best sound LMFAO. Talk about damage control..
M.Night Shyamalan said:
you see... everyone knew the PS4 Pro is 4.2TF... but when they see TLOU2 , Ghosts, Uncharted 4... that looks better than what a SIX TF xbox One X can produce... well, they say fuck it, I buy what makes better graphics.

Its going to be a great generation... lots of crow to eat for doubters.
Click to expand...
Is anyone doubting that games are going to look great on both consoles? I don't think anyone is saying otherwise.
 
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thelastword

thelastword

Banned
pasterpl said:
didnt ms said that their audio chip will do exactly the same thing?
Click to expand...
No I mean graphics technology......For example games that win best graphics awards by landslides.....

So like you saw this gen, the graphics technology in Forza vs GTS, GTS had superior technology, so does DC over Forza Horizon.....Uncharted vs Recore/Crackdown3, whatever you want to choose......Horizon Zero Dawn vs SOD/SOT, Days Gone vs SOD, Horizon Zero Dawn vs SOT...….Killzone ShadowFall vs Halo 5.....In graphics technology? Yes, it's exactly what I mean...
 
Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
xool said:
Some Sony fans seem to have been upset by something in the last few days, not sure what.. I'm upset about a missing spdif port. Feel my pain.
Click to expand...

It's all connected, did you read previous details? They had it then pulled it out, yet they lie about having the same engine as The Tempest Engine. Details are telling otherwise. What Sony did here is a unit based on an old GPU. Cheap but can make read thousands of sounds instead of 32 in Dolby Atmos. They will use it for hundreds though, but that's the full potential.
 
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FranXico

FranXico

Member
Bo_Hazem said:
It's all connected, did you read previous details? They had it then pulled it out, yet they lie about having the same engine as The Tempest Engine.
Click to expand...
It's not the same, it's different. There's a thread about Project Acoustics now, you can guess what the reactions are.

Whatever.
 
S

SamWeb

Member
[QUOTE = "MisterXDTV, должность: 257492466, участник: 394996"]
10 GB are faster than the other 6 GB, it's a fact....
[/ QUOTE]

This is a meaningless fact as long as ps5 is behind (which is true) Reality will refute your ideas.
 
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ThatPolishGuy

ThatPolishGuy

Member
Apollo Helios said:
Who did the render on that YT video's thumbnail? It looks cool and would love that look on the retail console.
What do you guys think?
Click to expand...

It looks nice, the only thing that I would change in an retail console is the front panel. It looks too bulky and technical - which is practical in a devkit but not really appealing in a retail version. The V shape and fully black version with vents is nice thou. they should really go with this imho but with a nice redesigned front panel.

I've been reading reactions and stuff - and I wasn't sure if I should post something or not, I've been PlayStation person for a while back, PlayStation was always more popular here in Poland - but I always was in on the games and I would game on PC so Xbox was more of the same too me and not really appealing. I'm not much of a fanboy but I think I will still choose PlayStation, the difference in teraflops is not that much and I know that pricing is important and we can't have everything exactly the same as new Xbox. Honestly I think that Sony is definitely choosing another approach here - we haven't even seen a new DualShock and I think that + powerful sound chip + superfast ssd alone is a better gain than 1.8 Teraflops, the only downside of 32 CU GPU could be a worse Raytracing performance. But lets wait for more info and the games. I was always in for the exclusives.
 
Apollo Helios

Apollo Helios

Member
Bo_Hazem said:
www.gamesradar.com

You won't be able to connect your Xbox Series X to audio devices via optical ports

The Xbox Series X marketing units feature ports that won't be available in the retail edition
www.gamesradar.com www.gamesradar.com



Guys with likes of Astro A50 and A40+mixer for Xbox, better sell them quickly.
Click to expand...

This is beyond stupid. Down the line I am going to buy Series X but this will push me to buy other stuff like splitters which may or may not add latency to the sound along with adding $$$ to my whole setup.

If it is in the prototype and on units that you do teardown videos with then it should BE on the final retail box. How stupid is not including it?
 
M-V2

M-V2

Member
HeisenbergFX4 said:
Just my 2 cents we are not going to see that big of a difference in multiplat games in the extra power of the XsX or the faster speed of the PS5's SSD.

Those machines will shine for 1st party devs though.
Click to expand...
Tbh that the case for 1st party devs on Sony side, but on MS, remember all their games will be on PC so there will be a minimum requirements. God knows what they're aiming for lol
 
Apollo Helios

Apollo Helios

Member
ThatPolishGuy said:
It looks nice, the only thing that I would change in an retail console is the front panel. It looks too bulky and technical - which is practical in a devkit but not really appealing in a retail version. The V shape and fully black version with vents is nice thou. they should really go with this imho but with a nice redesigned front panel.

I've been reading reactions and stuff - and I wasn't sure if I should post something or not, I've been PlayStation person for a while back, PlayStation was always more popular here in Poland - but I always was in on the games and I would game on PC so Xbox was more of the same too me and not really appealing. I'm not much of a fanboy but I think I will still choose PlayStation, the difference in teraflops is not that much and I know that pricing is important and we can't have everything exactly the same as new Xbox. Honestly I think that Sony is definitely choosing another approach here - we haven't even seen a new DualShock and I think that + powerful sound chip + superfast ssd alone is a better gain than 1.8 Teraflops, the only downside of 32 CU GPU could be a worse Raytracing performance. But lets wait for more info and the games. I was always in for the exclusives.
Click to expand...
Yeah I totally agree that front panel must change if the final design is anywhere near this shape/form. It must look sleeker and maybe not indented but at the same level with the top curve.
 
ThatPolishGuy

ThatPolishGuy

Member
Apollo Helios said:
Yeah I totally agree that front panel must change if the final design is anywhere near this shape/form. It must look sleeker and maybe not indented but at the same level with the top curve.
Click to expand...
Nice to see that someone has similar opinion. Also I meant 36CU GPU in case someone notices my typing error.
 
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Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
FranXico said:
It's not the same, it's different. There's a thread about Project Acoustics now, you can guess what the reactions are.

Whatever.
Click to expand...

What Is the Tempest Engine in PS5?
The Tempest Engine is effectively the hardware chip inside the PS5 which makes all of this fancy 3D audio technology possible. As explained by Digital Foundry, the "Tempest Engine is effectively a re-engineered AMD GPU compute unit, stripped of its caches and relying solely on DMA transfers".

Fascinatingly, to accurately create 3D audio, Sony needs to data called the Head-related Transfer Function, which is unique to every person based on their ear and head shape. There'll be at least five profiles available at launch based on over 100 people, and you'll be able to configure this based on your personal optimum settings. But the manufacturer wants to find a way to perfectly personalise this data for every user, and this may involve you eventually taking and uploading photos of your ears.

www.pushsquare.com

PS5 3D Audio: What Is PlayStation 5's Tempest Engine?

How PlayStation 5's 3D audio tech will improve games
www.pushsquare.com www.pushsquare.com

------------

In other words, it's GPU core, hardware-based:

-------------

Project Acoustics is a wave acoustics engine for 3D interactive experiences. It models wave effects like occlusion, obstruction, portaling and reverberation effects in complex scenes without requiring manual zone markup or CPU intensive ray tracing. It also includes game engine and audio middleware integration. Project Acoustics' philosophy is similar to static lighting: bake detailed physics offline to provide a physical baseline, and use a lightweight runtime with expressive design controls to meet your artistic goals for the acoustics of your virtual world. Ray-based acoustics methods can check for occlusion using a single source-to-listener ray cast, or drive reverb by estimating local scene volume with a few rays. But these techniques can be unreliable because a pebble occludes as much as a boulder. Rays don't account for the way sound bends around objects, a phenomenon known as diffraction. Project Acoustics' simulation captures these effects using a wave-based simulation. The acoustics are more predictable, accurate and seamless. Project Acoustics' key innovation is to couple real sound wave-based acoustic simulation with traditional sound design concepts. It translates simulation results into traditional audio DSP parameters for occlusion, portaling, and reverb. The designer uses controls over this translation process.

www.windowscentral.com

Xbox Series X 'Project Acoustics' audio ray tracing revealed

We know a lot more about the Xbox Series X.
www.windowscentral.com www.windowscentral.com

-----------

Kind of vague. Sounds like software-based (EDIT: It's a chip that offloads and processes to free RAM/CPU) with too much fancy words. But nothing more than mediocre quality. Details will show more later.

And this is hardware-based:
------------

Sony is going big on audio with PS5.

The PS5 is able to place a much bigger emphasis on audio thanks to the inclusion of a dedicated hardware chip called the Tempest Engine.

Sony recognises that audio processing took a step back on PS4 compared to PS3, and wanted to deliver 3D audio for everyone with PS5. This is where the Tempest Engine comes in. The Tempest Engine is a re-purposed GPU compute unit, inspired by the PS3’s SPUs with an SIMD performance and bandwidth comparable to eight PS4 CPU cores combined.

It is capable of supporting hundreds of sound sources, such as simulating individual raindrops in a rainy or shower scene. It’s also capable of what lead system architect, Mark Cerny, referred to in his talk as “locality,” which takes into account the precise shape of your ear and head to further thrust you into the virtual world.

www.vg247.com

PS5's Tempest Engine audio chip is a revolutionary addition to bring 3D audio to everyone

Sony is going big on audio with PS5.
www.vg247.com www.vg247.com

---------

Unprecedented 3D audio fidelity via the Tempest 3D Audio Engine.

www.eurogamer.net

Inside PlayStation 5: the specs and the tech that deliver Sony's next-gen vision

www.eurogamer.net www.eurogamer.net

--------
 
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PocoJoe

PocoJoe

Banned
Bogroll said:
Times really are hard when fanboys mention a better sound chip. Feels like I'm back in the 80s and early 90s.
Click to expand...

No, times are hard when fanboys dont see real technical advancements from being a fanboy.

Fact is that there have not been similar real 3D audio in any consoles so far, so how can you or anybody say that "it is just same sound chip vs sound chip like always"?

If we trust in Cernys words, and it is really something new, not this basic "hmm game sound comes maybe from left / back etc" but in the best scenario it is like "I dont feel like I hear game sounds from headphones, it feels like I am literally inside the gaming world"

Then it could be kind of what VR is for visuals and how it makes you feel that you are inside the game.

So, if this is the case, then it could be true that "normal sound chip" would not be enough, and using same setup as xbox would use xx% of cpu/gpu to do the calculations

Which case is more probable:

A) Sony used millions to build this custom 3D audio chip. Registered hundred people inside the audio recording room with microphones inside their ear canals to perfect the technology, told us about it in long presentation and it is really something new and using regural setup + cpu/gpu would spend lot of performance to it

B) Sony is lying and they just spent millions for fun and it is really just same as regular audio chip


I guess xbox fans / gamers in general are just fucking stupid, if they cant look tech as tech, instead of screaming how everything is bullshit, Sony is bullshit, their advancements are bullshit and xbox won the gen just because few tflops.

Both consoles are strong, both have bit different approach and goals.

Consoles arent even launched and people speak like they have already played PS5 games and 3d audio is nothing special, SSD isnt nothing special and so on. Pure idiocy
 
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geordiemp

geordiemp

Member
Mynd said:
Dividing the memory bandwidth by the CU’s?
What the hell does that prove? Lol.
Every single pixel pushed into the frame buffer requires access to it (likely multiple frame buffers with deferred rendering).
Click to expand...

PS5 is likely to have more L2 cache per CU than XSX. ?
 
pasterpl

pasterpl

Member
Bo_Hazem said:
Kind of vague. Sounds like software-based with too much fancy words. But nothing more than mediocre quality. Details will show more later.
Click to expand...

this was shared here multiple times but you are still trying to force your narrative

www.videogameschronicle.com

Xbox Series X will have a dedicated audio chip, Ninja Theory engineers reveal | VGC

Hardware acceleration could enable 3D audio…
www.videogameschronicle.com www.videogameschronicle.com

Xbox Series X will have a dedicated audio chip, Ninja Theory engineers reveal
Click to expand...
 
Q

Quezacotl

Unconfirmed Member
Damn.. nothing but serious business being handle in this thread.
 
CJY

CJY

Banned
johnjohn said:
You're embarrassing yourself.
Click to expand...

The only ones embarrassing themselves are those Xbox fanboys who are spouting non-truths and spreading their "TFlops TFlops TFlops" fallacy all over the place.

If MS have more Flops, it's because of AMD beastliness, and nothing to do with MS.

Most people are actually trying to have a reasonable discussion about PS5 because it's simply technically more interesting. XSX is nothing more than a small PC and everyone knew almost everything about it months ago.
 
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