Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
You obviously haven’t been in an Xbox thread while PS was winning,
So your defence is again “b... but Sony (fans) too” huh?!
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You obviously haven’t been in an Xbox thread while PS was winning,
I’m not going to bother with this discussion any further. You are obviously trolling for laughs.
Or maybe Microsoft does not see the need of touting secret sauces this time, because they have the hardware advantage. Last time, they did try similar bs, with "our system engineers are the best, you don't think we would give PlayStation that much of a tech advantage" and "power of the cloud". This "more efficient" and "higher performance" smokescreen stuff you keep making up is just a sad display. PS5 will likely be cheaper and have shorter loading times, with exclusive games benefiting from what follows for streaming data. Other than that it will be the noticably weaker system. Why does that seem to be so hard to grasp with such an obvious disadvantage in every regard except I/O?Not with the same level of finesse as the PS5 or else we'd be hearing it from Xbox already.
The PS5's SSD is in its own class, simple as that.
Or maybe Microsoft does not see the need of touting secret sauces this time, because they have the hardware advantage. Last time, they did try similar bs, with "our system engineers are the best, you don't think we would give PlayStation that much of a tech advantage" and "power of the cloud".
This "more efficient" and "higher performance" smokescreen stuff you keep making up is just a sad display. PS5 will likely be cheaper and have shorter loading times, with exclusive games benefiting from what follows for streaming data. Other than that it will be the noticably weaker system. Why does that seem to be so hard to grasp with such an obvious disadvantage in every regard except I/O?
to be fair, he somewhat corrected himself later on:
It is just basically a very similar situation to last time around. This power differential will lead to similar results for multi platform games: Slightly worse performance or resolution (or both, but each to a lesser extent) on PS5 when compared to Xbox SX. If this important to you, then you will need to get an XSX, if it is negligible to you, then there is no reason for you to care much. I bought the Xbox One over the PS4 last time, so obviously, I personally do not think this disparity is particularly important, but grasping for straws by exaggerating to a comic degree technical marketing talk of one company is just plain ridiculous.Not sure why people are feeling the need to be over selling a 14% on paper gap: “much much stronger” “noticeably weaker” etc... etc... either.
It is just basically a very similar situation to last time around. This power differential will lead to similar results for multi platform games: Slightly worse performance or resolution (or both, but each to a lesser extent) on PS5 when compared to Xbox SX. If this important to you, then you will need to get an XSX, if it is negligible to you, then there is no reason for you to care much. I bought the Xbox One over the PS4 last time, so obviously, I personally do not think this disparity is particularly important, but grasping for straws by exaggerating to a comic degree technical marketing talk of one company is just plain ridiculous.
Detailled discussions about advantages and disadvantages of specific design decisions are of course completely fine, but threads like this one here are just partisan fanboy bickering.
Sony's SSD has lower storage capacity no matter how you slice it. It can be fast as hell, but I prefer more storage. Games are going to be bigger than ever. I always felt that 2 TB should be the bare minimum for next gen.
I'm not. It saddens me that you run away. You're usually quite levelheaded, but in this thread, you've really dropped the ball. Not only have you confused yourself over what your OP is about, but on top of that, you refuse to admit it.
PS4 Pro, Xbox One X?That is a fair point, but neither company has infinite money to take a loss on the unit and people will not buy $800 consoles... The thing is that in time you can add more storage, you cannot increase its speed massively (consoles are built around one spec).
You can agree to disagree with him, but it doesn’t change the fact that you are just wrong in what you’ve been saying. Your OP is all about the ssd, whether you are aware of it or not.Sorry, I just don’t see how your coming to your conclusions, I’m providing exact quotes and your interpreting them differently for reasons I don’t understand.
I don’t believe I’ve changed anything from the OP and have repeated many times with quotes why it’s not SSD related.
I think we’ll have to just agree to disagree.
Below is one example where custom hardware was used to resolve a bottleneck and in the process save one whole CPU core. (Meaning it could be used elsewhere) When Mark is quoted as addressing all bottlenecks then that would be where the excitement from devs is coming from.
IF similar bottlenecks are resolved on the GPU side then that means you won't need as many teraflops to perform the exact same operations as XSX.
I'm not saying PS5 is more powerful than XSX because of these changers but it obviously at the very least brings the two much closer together performance wise since PS5 is using (as per Mark Cerny) 'a lot of custom hardware'.
Quote taken from -
Yea, well, you might have to start saving up for a PC then. Seriously folks. this generation is going to be different as far as Sony exclusives ONLY coming out on the PS platform. I've been preaching this for nearly a year and I still don't see it discussed when people try to pinpoint the uniqueness of Sony's exclusive games. I feel like what I'm saying is going through one ear and out the other despite giving you folks accurate information. It's just not going to be like last gen anymore. The PC might not get all, but some of the ones they will be getting will matter, believe me. The signs are all over the place.
I'm not sure I want to react to it, but just one question: will Sony dump all their custom silicon (they literally have a shitload of that in PS5: SSD, audio, GPU) engineering in PS5 down the drain just to make a PC-first game?
Never, SSD speed requirements will be another spec for PC users to take into account once games start being made for next gen consoles.I'm not sure I want to react to it, but just one question: will Sony dump all their custom silicon (they literally have a shitload of that in PS5: SSD, audio, GPU) engineering in PS5 down the drain just to make a PC-first game?
Never, SSD speed requirements will be another spec for PC users to take into account once games start being made for next gen consoles.
This is a pretty delusional take, PC gamers don't care. They will play this and go right back to whatever game they were playing beforehand.Genius move. It's had the full impact it can have on ps4 at this stage. Launching on pc will show many non ps4 gamers what they're missing, will make Sony some easy money and will make even more want to play horizon 2 which will be ps5 only.
pc have and will have even more memory down the road.SSDs on PCs have ~10% of needed bandwidth.
Intel Optane comes close, with probably 50% of what PS5 has.
Which one will be the requirement?
Sorry, I just don’t see how your coming to your conclusions, I’m providing exact quotes and your interpreting them differently for reasons I don’t understand.
I don’t believe I’ve changed anything from the OP and have repeated many times with quotes why it’s not SSD related.
I think we’ll have to just agree to disagree.
Sony's SSD has lower storage capacity no matter how you slice it. It can be fast as hell, but I prefer more storage. Games are going to be bigger than ever. I always felt that 2 TB should be the bare minimum for next gen.
All these aspect of next gen will built up around SSD because it is truly a game changer and people can down play it all they want, but it is like a snow ball which turns into an avalanche, SSD will affect into many things directly and indirectly
It does but if you have to load more in then you ultimately get your performance cut rather quickly.
Take this video for example -
On XSX it takes 7 seconds to load the world.
If the game were on PS5 it would be instant because it doesn't need to load the world, it loads only what is in front of you.
pc have and will have even more memory down the road.
do you need to move things as much when you have the real deal ?
I'm not sure I want to react to it, but just one question: will Sony dump all their custom silicon (they literally have a shitload of that in PS5: SSD, audio, GPU) engineering in PS5 down the drain just to make a PC-first game?
No. But does that mean the PC can't do what they need to get done in a game?
Some won't care but many will be blown away and will be jealous when the next one launches on ps5.This is a pretty delusional take, PC gamers don't care. They will play this and go right back to whatever game they were playing beforehand.
This is an odd take for games going multiplatform.
You say 'substantially more powerful' but most tech experts have clearly said the differences will likely be a slightly higher frame-rate and higher resolution. You are trying to make a mole-hill into a mountain.
If Sony wanted to, they could have made the exact same console as MS for the exact same price. Why not discuss why each company made the decisions they did, rather than constantly shouting 'damage control', 'butt-hurt', etc.
In the end, Sony is trying to make the best console for a specific price (MS did as well) and they both had to make some trade-offs. The power difference only becomes interesting if they are same price and I'd be willing to bet dollars to donuts that they aren't.
In the end, the system with the best games always wins.
It means that PC-centric game needs to be totally different from PS5-centric game.
Like all this custom silicon is not on PC. So either you do not use it in PS5 either, or these are vastly different code-bases with different trade-offs.
You know that the PS5's SSD isn't going to somehow push more pixels just because it has a 5.5G/s SSD.
No, but it will obviously change how you utilize them.This SSD won't change the GPU, the CPU or the RAM.
You guys are becoming intolerably annoying.
There's probably more custom design in that system than Sony's.
He's not wrong though. You can't simply substitute SSD for GDDR6 VRAM. One is two orders of magnitude faster than the other, but the SSD and its implementation is also absolutely the most important spec for next gen when all other aspects are basically even. Better/Faster SSD = game changer. Slighly more Flops = nothing.to be fair, he somewhat corrected himself later on:
I don't care about pixels, I care about the code, who will write it and how long will it take.
Supporting 2 code paths is much more expensive than 1 (more than 2x expensive, because you need to synchronize the two approaches frequently). And these code path will be very different.
Unless, you aim to not using the custom silicon at all beyond the most naive and simple things.
This isn’t an SSD thread.
Why would 2 code paths need to be used simply because of an SSD while everything else is pretty much par the course (i.e. CPU, GPU, memory pool, etc..)?
Not if the amount of pixels are the same. Or do you mean post-processing?You *do* care about the pixels because that's what's being shown to the gamer.
Why would 2 code paths need to be used simply because of an SSD while everything else is pretty much par the course (i.e. CPU, GPU, memory pool, etc..)? Give an example of what problem you are running into.
Uh no.Some won't care but many will be blown away and will be jealous when the next one launches on ps5.