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Jason Schreier's industry sources: PS5 is superior in ways that Sony has not communicated yet

It's a $10k card, and it's not for gaming, but Sony's SSD solution is going for this exact concept and it's truly revolutionary in the console space.
Current iPhones/android phones and tablets are more powerful and have more memory than super computers had years before.
 

Piku_Ringo

Banned
Ms said sustained and Sony say variable. No other way to spin that lmao the level of reaching is astronomical here.
And I'm not saying no one is downplaying both consoles. I'm simply pointing out that people are downplaying advantages. It's just that simple.
That's great. But don't confuse that with it being more powerful or more impressive than the XSX. For instance, some of them devs may only have PS5 dev kits. They may be audio programmers who are speaking about the audio tech
There's a few considerations to take after sitting in on the PS5 announcement and analyzing both consoles. I'll drop them below:

1. It saddens me that supposed game fans are "happy" that their console "wins whatever". This applies to both PS and XB users. The problem here is that a nerfed system will always be a bottleneck for all systems when developing multiplatform games. Graphics are not everything, there's also game mechanics that are either possible or impossible with any given system.

2. A lot of people DO NOT understand how a system is designed, neither they understand what a performance bottleneck is. Let's put things like this: If you have a quadcore CPU from 2008 and slap it in a Motherboard with a GTX 2080 TI and 64GB of RAM, you are wasting resources. Your CPU will be your bottleneck, and you will not achieve the same performance as someone with a more balanced system and even a GTX 2060 or 2070, depending on how balanced those systems are.

3. With that said, nobody is saying that system X or Y will have obvious bottlenecks, but it looks like both companies went with completely different approaches to how games are designed and how resources are utilized.

3.1. The XBox Series X seems to throw raw power into the equation, which has been the status quo since 2013. This is an ok approach, especially because these are custom built chips designed to maximize performance and minimize losses. I expect great things from it.

3.2. The PS5 is more "refined" in it's approach, and by this I mean, the amount of custom processors designed to offload load from the GPU and CPU is staggering. While the machine has overall less "TFlops", it seems to be "better rounded".

4. I'm basing myself in the tech sheets and my minimal knowledge of hardware.

5. I really want that, in real world applications, both are similar. In that scenario, all true gamers win.

6. Spec sheets will be closed way ahead. Sony would absolutely not add "variable clock frequencies" and "boost the clocks" because the Xbox announced a higher TFlop count. We don't understand how RDNA2 affects thermals and clock speeds yet, so best reserve our judgement when launch time comes.

etc...Maybe they're devloping a VR game and complimenting VR capabilities
You mean the same ex Sony dev who looks like he does a lot of work for MS now? Great source there Einstein. How stupid are you?
Sure thing, buddy 😆👍.
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joe_zazen

Member
That they aren't pushing footage this early suggests that they are protecting their PS4 line-up, unsurprising given that things like TLOU2 and GOT are first-party technical showcases. It amazes me how people can ignore how PS4 is still killing it, and how that ought to impact Sony's plans for the PS5 reveal.

I mean people are talking smack about how Cerny's GDC talk should not have been made public, yet objectively had it been an attendee-only live event, the information contained, and especially the specs, would have leaked onto to the net whether Sony wanted it or not.

Point being, the Cerny thing was not the console reveal. The real thing is yet to come and will be timetabled according to what serves both PS4 and PS5 best.

that is my view. They expect tlou2 to be the biggest Sony exclusive of the generation, possibly selling 20 million in the first month. That is a lot of money.

I wish i liked naughty dog games given how much they spend to make them. I kinda hope it tanks so maybe we could more games that weren't 3rd person action adventure lite rpgs and more Astrobots/Driveclubs.

GoT I dont think they would have postponed ps5 marketing for. That is a 3-5 million game at most, unless it gets gta/botw hype.
 
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Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
This was BEFORE the reveal. Would be interesting to see how the interest has changed. Are people still that interested or more interested in Xbox series x now?

Would be interested how the different reveals might have changed the perception and interest.

Before the reveal?! Yeah, because the devs with the devkit (many now) were waiting for a 1 hour presentation... if you think MA and Sony briefed their key devs just this month I have a nice bridge to sell ya ;).
 

Goliathy

Banned
Before the reveal?! Yeah, because the devs with the devkit (many now) were waiting for a 1 hour presentation... if you think MA and Sony briefed their key devs just this month I have a nice bridge to sell ya ;).

Well, they asked 4,000 industry professionals. Can you tell me how many of them received a PS5 Devkit?
 

joe_zazen

Member
I want to believe this is not marketing (not JS directly, but whoever is allegedly leaking info to him). But if there's any truth to this why aren't hearing details yet? Tough for me to believe that journalists wouldn't break this scoop if real.

2015 era JS would have written his story, but EiC of Kotaku doesnt want to derail marketing campaigns unless there is value to the story. So leaking the next location of the AssCreed wont happen, but telling the world that Naughty Dog chews through staff and cant attract world class game animators/devs because of that reputation is AOK.
 

NickFire

Member
2015 era JS would have written his story, but EiC of Kotaku doesnt want to derail marketing campaigns unless there is value to the story. So leaking the next location of the AssCreed wont happen, but telling the world that Naughty Dog chews through staff and cant attract world class game animators/devs because of that reputation is AOK.
Can't really argue with that.
 

Hobbygaming

has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
ok... schreier know better then AMD....


"Developers are saying PS5 is the most exciting hardware in 20 years"

they aren't lie..... this SSD is a exciting pice of hardware... but what about the console?
See they said: "exciting hardware"... your misguided brain read: "exciting console"

but in the real world that not the same... 😊😎
What?? Lmao when they said exciting hardware they are talking about the console
 
Some people in here are suggesting some crazy things regarding the AMD SmartShift implementation in the ps5. SmartShift is designed to throttle based on power budget rather than temps. See here.

SmartShift isn’t all signing all dancing though. AMD has come out and said that SmartShift offered about a 10% advantage. This begs certain questions however:-

  • What comes up must come down - if your perf increases 10% due to SmartShift does that mean cpu perf will decrease by a similar 10%? But wait, if the gpu consumes more power as standard (say 2-3x cpu) will the cpu clocks have to go waaay lower to provide adequate power to push the gpu at max clock?
  • If SmartShift is locked to power target, does that mean the thermal solution will be running flat out all the time i.e. the console will sit at its max power limit all the time? What does this do for noise or longevity?
  • Temps - They have to come into this somewhere. Is SmartShift max boost limited by higher ambient temperatures? Will some people be able to push higher gpu boost when at lower ambient temps? Just how variable is the implementation?
  • Implications of dynamic resolution - Given the variable nature of SmartShift. Does this imply a strong use of dynamic resolution in all titles? How do developers know what performance target to push for as nothing is fixed. Is the plan to ballpark it and rely on dynamic resolution to even FPS out?
These are all reasonable questions regarding what we know. The gall of some of you to push this as some sort of special Sony magic wand with no negative ramifications is really irritating to a lot of us here. For my part, I’d rather see a 9.2TFlop PS5 that ran at reasonable temps, sipped power, was whisper quiet and was guaranteed to last for years. I’m concerned that this thing appears to me to be a fucking nuclear reactor cooled by a jet turbine that I have to wear a set of ear defenders to enjoy.
 

Goliathy

Banned
Whats even more funny is there is an ex sony dev who worked on Killzone etc admitting that XSX is "staggeringly" more powerful than PS5

who should we trust more? someone who openly says it or doesnt even disclose his own name and just says it through someone else? lol seems fishy to me. and in WHAT ways is it more powerful? like what? from better dev tools? better hardware? better PSU? in what way exactly?
 

Reindeer

Member
Makes you wonder why Sony even picked Cerny to design their consoles when they could have simply picked anyone from GAF. More knowledgeable in every area.
Nice way to spin things. Cerny no matter how intelligent he is still has to operate within a certain budget that his employers give him. Cerny's genius operates within that budget. It's funny how people keep ignoring this part, SMH.
 
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mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Here guys who from PC World who have no vested interest in next gen consoles discussing PS5 specs and say that Series X is considerably more powerful. People should listen to folks who are neutral and how they're saying that Series X is a superior console.



What do you think the definition of "considerably" to be? Do you believe the difference in power between the Xbox One and PS4 was a considerable power difference?
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
I want to believe this is not marketing (not JS directly, but whoever is allegedly leaking info to him). But if there's any truth to this why aren't hearing details yet? Tough for me to believe that journalists wouldn't break this scoop if real.

It's not marketing at all. JS has heard these things from devs. Digital Foundry even said they have more info from Mark Cerny himself where he goes even deeper into the PS5 stuff with them and that information will be coming out "soon". That 55-minute talk wasn't the end all be all of everything that the PS5 has.

Some people in here are suggesting some crazy things regarding the AMD SmartShift implementation in the ps5. SmartShift is designed to throttle based on power budget rather than temps. See here.

SmartShift isn’t all signing all dancing though. AMD has come out and said that SmartShift offered about a 10% advantage. This begs certain questions however:-

  • What comes up must come down - if your perf increases 10% due to SmartShift does that mean cpu perf will decrease by a similar 10%? But wait, if the gpu consumes more power as standard (say 2-3x cpu) will the cpu clocks have to go waaay lower to provide adequate power to push the gpu at max clock?
  • If SmartShift is locked to power target, does that mean the thermal solution will be running flat out all the time i.e. the console will sit at its max power limit all the time? What does this do for noise or longevity?
  • Temps - They have to come into this somewhere. Is SmartShift max boost limited by higher ambient temperatures? Will some people be able to push higher gpu boost when at lower ambient temps? Just how variable is the implementation?
  • Implications of dynamic resolution - Given the variable nature of SmartShift. Does this imply a strong use of dynamic resolution in all titles? How do developers know what performance target to push for as nothing is fixed. Is the plan to ballpark it and rely on dynamic resolution to even FPS out?
These are all reasonable questions regarding what we know. The gall of some of you to push this as some sort of special Sony magic wand with no negative ramifications is really irritating to a lot of us here. For my part, I’d rather see a 9.2TFlop PS5 that ran at reasonable temps, sipped power, was whisper quiet and was guaranteed to last for years. I’m concerned that this thing appears to me to be a fucking nuclear reactor cooled by a jet turbine that I have to wear a set of ear defenders to enjoy.

Is it safe to say that you know less about designing a console than Mark Cerny and AMD? I say this because CLEARLY building a console with a variable freq rate at 10.3 TFs is better than a 9.2 TF console with a fixed rate. There's zero reason to believe Cerny would have done things this way, if it wasn't better. You probably like the 9.2TF option better, because it's all you know and understand. You aren't an engineer. You don't actually know how all this stuff works at all.

And who is saying Smartshift has no downsides?
 
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Here guys who from PC World who have no vested interest in next gen consoles discussing PS5 specs and say that Series X is considerably more powerful. People should listen to folks who are neutral and how they're saying that Series X is a superior console.



Bwaha how desperate are you? How long did it take you to find that?! these guys are PC component enthusiasts on a small YT channel not developers using each machine.

The devs are the ones seriously impressed by PS5 and saying the perf gap is tiny so I think I'll listen to them thanks.
 

Sosokrates

Report me if I continue to console war
That's great if it does. Gears 5 looks so clean and smooth in 4K60fps on the Series X. Yummy.

To be honest im not fussed aboutvthe series X improvement of gears 5, it in looks like the 1X version to me, I know it looks better but I just dont care for such subtle differences
 

Reindeer

Member
Bwaha how desperate are you? How long did it take you to find that?! these guys are PC component enthusiasts on a small YT channel not developers using each machine.

The devs are the ones seriously impressed by PS5 and saying the perf gap is tiny so I think I'll listen to them thanks.
Devs? You mean Sony devs or those devs that have close ties to Sony? Or maybe Jason's dev contacts that told him PS5 GPU is more powerful than RTX 2080? Lol, you lot are so desperate with picking and choosing and changing narrative every 5 minutes, SMH. And of course you'll ignore any dev who says Series X is more powerful because it doesn't fit your narrative. Truly sad how low you lot have fallen after the whole GitHub debacle.
 
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NickFire

Member
It's not marketing at all. JS has heard these things from devs. Digital Foundry even said they have more info from Mark Cerny himself where he goes even deeper into the PS5 stuff with them and that information will be coming out "soon". That 55-minute talk wasn't the end all be all of everything that the PS5 has.

I completely agree that there is much more to learn, but I still stand by my original sentiments that I don't trust any rumors about partial superiority right now. Hopefully the DF deeper dive feeds the hunger whenever it comes out.
 

Goliathy

Banned
Don't provoke the Xbox fanboys, they dont want to hear this :messenger_grinning_squinting:
hear what? its just a rumor, no names, nothing lol And nothing has been proven, so lets wait for that first maybe?
It's not marketing at all. JS has heard these things from devs. Digital Foundry even said they have more info from Mark Cerny himself where he goes even deeper into the PS5 stuff with them and that information will be coming out "soon". That 55-minute talk wasn't the end all be all of everything that the PS5 has.



Is it safe to say that you know less about designing a console than Mark Cerny and AMD? I say this because CLEARLY building a console with a variable freq rate at 10.3 TFs is better than a 9.2 TF console with a fixed rate. There's zero reason to believe Cerny would have done things this way, if it wasn't better. You probably like the 9.2TF option better, because it's all you know and understand. You aren't an engineer. You don't actually know how all this stuff works at all.

And who is saying Smartshift has no downsides?

For a multiplatform game dev a fixed frequency is much better than a variable frequency.
 

FranXico

Member
Wot a thread.

If what JS has tweeted is true, and the guy has a stellar record and is the most connected journo out there, then Sony‘s actual reveal will have some cool shit to show. It wont be dry technical garbage. And if JS is wrong, reveal will be a dumpster fire like the rest of Sony marketing for the past 2 years.

Point is, we still have some stuff to look forward to that may or may not lead to disappointment.

also, dont forget JS has been blackedballed from sony and he trashed naughty dog last week. Idk why anyone would think his has some,sort of live for that company.
1 buck says JS is just pulling this "devs :messenger_heart: PS5" talk out of his arse. He might not love Sony, but I'm pretty sure he loves attention and clicks.

Plenty of devs might be intrigued about the tech and the tools, but that is a sort of academic interest. It won't necessarily translate into some amazing new kind of games this soon in the new generation. It certainly won't compensate for the GPU difference either.
 
It's not marketing at all. JS has heard these things from devs. Digital Foundry even said they have more info from Mark Cerny himself where he goes even deeper into the PS5 stuff with them and that information will be coming out "soon". That 55-minute talk wasn't the end all be all of everything that the PS5 has.



Is it safe to say that you know less about designing a console than Mark Cerny and AMD? I say this because CLEARLY building a console with a variable freq rate at 10.3 TFs is better than a 9.2 TF console with a fixed rate. There's zero reason to believe Cerny would have done things this way, if it wasn't better. You probably like the 9.2TF option better, because it's all you know and understand. You aren't an engineer. You don't actually know how all this stuff works at all.

And who is saying Smartshift has no downsides?


So sad. My reasonable questions regarding potential ramifications of the tech have been met with the typical Cerny is Cerny and nobody ever questions the Cern dogma. Cerny has made plenty of mistakes or don't you remember the PS4 Pro? That thing sounded like a damn jet taking off and was totally unbalanced at an architectural level. How about Cernys complete and utter fuck up with the PlayStation backwards compatibility solution? That one mistake is what has caused the 36CU limit in the PS5. That mistake will limit PS4 games taking full advantage of PS5 hardware for increased visual settings (looks like PS4 Pro boost mode settings). But no, Cerny is incredible and there's no way he would put together another unbalanced machine. Oh' wait. Lets throw in a completely overkill SSD to the detriment of GPU bus width, RAM speed, CPU and GPU performance in a device aimed at 4K gaming. I'm not even fully convinced the PS5 GPU is fully RDNA2. Where is the VRS? Elaborate on the RT implementation cause it sounds like the PS5 is a bit lacking in RDNA2 features. No, Cerny isn't as infallible as you seem to suggest and his track record doesn't shine half as brightly as you suggest.
 

PocoJoe

Banned
So sad. My reasonable questions regarding potential ramifications of the tech have been met with the typical Cerny is Cerny and nobody ever questions the Cern dogma. Cerny has made plenty of mistakes or don't you remember the PS4 Pro? That thing sounded like a damn jet taking off and was totally unbalanced at an architectural level. How about Cernys complete and utter fuck up with the PlayStation backwards compatibility solution? That one mistake is what has caused the 36CU limit in the PS5. That mistake will limit PS4 games taking full advantage of PS5 hardware for increased visual settings (looks like PS4 Pro boost mode settings). But no, Cerny is incredible and there's no way he would put together another unbalanced machine. Oh' wait. Lets throw in a completely overkill SSD to the detriment of GPU bus width, RAM speed, CPU and GPU performance in a device aimed at 4K gaming. I'm not even fully convinced the PS5 GPU is fully RDNA2. Where is the VRS? Elaborate on the RT implementation cause it sounds like the PS5 is a bit lacking in RDNA2 features. No, Cerny isn't as infallible as you seem to suggest and his track record doesn't shine half as brightly as you suggest.

So salty that this salt mountain would feed generations of console wars.

Too much flying bullshit, not even worth for shooting them down
 
Devs? You mean Sony devs or those devs that have close ties to Sony? Or maybe Jason's dev contacts that told him PS5 GPU is more powerful than RTX 2080? Lol, you lot are so desperate with picking and choosing and changing narrative every 5 minutes, SMH. And of course you'll ignore any dev who says Series X is more powerful because it doesn't fit your narrative. Truly sad how low you lot have fallen after the whole GitHub debacle.

There's a post in here where Schrier says specifically it was '3rd party devs'' that told him the gap is small and PS5 is superior piece of hardware 'in lots of ways' and I've posted myself two multiplat devs said they're more excited about your worse nightmare 5, but that big green X on your forehead is covering up the tops of your eyelids so you cant see them.
 

hyperbertha

Member
So sad. My reasonable questions regarding potential ramifications of the tech have been met with the typical Cerny is Cerny and nobody ever questions the Cern dogma. Cerny has made plenty of mistakes or don't you remember the PS4 Pro? That thing sounded like a damn jet taking off and was totally unbalanced at an architectural level. How about Cernys complete and utter fuck up with the PlayStation backwards compatibility solution? That one mistake is what has caused the 36CU limit in the PS5. That mistake will limit PS4 games taking full advantage of PS5 hardware for increased visual settings (looks like PS4 Pro boost mode settings). But no, Cerny is incredible and there's no way he would put together another unbalanced machine. Oh' wait. Lets throw in a completely overkill SSD to the detriment of GPU bus width, RAM speed, CPU and GPU performance in a device aimed at 4K gaming. I'm not even fully convinced the PS5 GPU is fully RDNA2. Where is the VRS? Elaborate on the RT implementation cause it sounds like the PS5 is a bit lacking in RDNA2 features. No, Cerny isn't as infallible as you seem to suggest and his track record doesn't shine half as brightly as you suggest.

The Ps4 pro runs like a jet in boost mode. I have no sound problems when it runs normally. That's good design in my book. Besides its a mid gen refresh. And you calling the SSD overkill made me laugh. He clearly thought it was better to invest more into the SSD than the GPU and if you think he is retarded enough to think loading times are more important than in game performance I don't know what to tell you. Surely their must be a reason for his choices?

Tomorrow we might get news again
Source?
 

quest

Not Banned from OT
I will pass your advice onto Cerny....I am sure he will take note of your knowldge

God this thread has just gone crazy
I'll pass the net bust high clock low cuda/cu core advice to nvidia and AMD. I'm sure they will totally revamp their line up to 1/2 cores at twice the core speed what could go wrong the P4 and bulldozer team will go down as the best in history am I right.
 

Reindeer

Member
There's a post in here where Schrier says specifically it was '3rd party devs'' that told him the gap is small and PS5 is superior piece of hardware 'in lots of ways' and I've posted myself two multiplat devs said they're more excited about your worse nightmare 5, but that big green X on your forehead is covering up the tops of your eyelids so you cant see them.
3rd party devs that told him that PS5 GPU is more powerful than RTX 2080? YAWN. We all saw how that turned out, LOL.
 

Goliathy

Banned
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There's a post in here where Schrier says specifically it was '3rd party devs'' that told him the gap is small and PS5 is superior piece of hardware 'in lots of ways' and I've posted myself two multiplat devs said they're more excited about your worse nightmare 5, but that big green X on your forehead is covering up the tops of your eyelids so you cant see them.

I’ll believe it when names are named. Too easy to pass off nonsense as an inside scoop on Twitter
 

NickFire

Member
I’ll believe it when names are named. Too easy to pass off nonsense as an inside scoop on Twitter
Exactly. The mere label of the people talking as 3rd party devs on this kind of topic is completely meaningless. For all we know they could be 3rd party indie devs who will never come close to stressing out either system who think Sony's dev tools are far superior. They could be audio engineers who are pissed that MS took out the optical ports and rendered most of their work as something few people will see the full vision of. They could also just be customer service reps at a dev who post where JS hangs out. Frankly, if JS is not giving us an in depth article about these superior features with at least 1/2 the word count an article gets when discussing digital porn, the likelihood there will be something truly game changing being leaked to Kotaku seems rather unlikely.
 

Reindeer

Member
yeah. It’s crazy how many bullish it rumors we heard about ps5, 13 tflops, full BC.
And at one point it was 100% truth and people were threatened with ban if they disagreed lol. I gotta say though, the denial stage is even more impressive in terms of its sheer size of crazy. There are now folks saying that Series X GPU is actually 9.6 tflops because audio apparently takes 20% of GPU power, so PS5 advanced audio chip means it doesn't have to use 20% of its GPU 😆.
 
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Three

Member
Ps4 reveal was million times different cuz they knew they had the better console. Now we got an hour presentation about ssd and audio.

Does it mean its a bad console? Nope but fanboys gonna fanboy. Ps4 has done amazing things with 1.84 tf.
In what way?
Where in the PS4 reveal did they mention TF or even game performance? Show me it. It's actually no different here. They are doing thier own thing and doing it well. It's the crazy console warriors trying to start some bullshit shitstorm after years of hurt.
 
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SmokSmog

Member
PS5 boost is limited by power budget, That means you can use water cooling mod, by droping the temperature transistor rezistancy will go down = less power consumption = bigger power budget= better boost = additional FPS.

Yes it's works like that.
GamerNexus or other PC group will check this.
 
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hyperbertha

Member
PS5 boost is limited by power budget, That means you can use water cooling mod, by droping the temperature transistor rezistancy will go down = less power consumption = bigger power budget= better boost = additional FPS.

Yes it's work like that.
GamerNexus or other PC group will check this.
But won't they need to lift the cap though?
 

Elenchus

Banned
He never said that.

DF spoke DIRECTLY to Cerny and they state otherwise. You need to take emotion out of it and deal with the facts. Cerny wouldn’t even describe the cooling or show the box working so nothing he said goes beyond theory at this point. He didn’t describe how low the clocks can drop. He simply stated his expectations without explaining the basis for them.

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