Jon Neu
Banned
Just in time for the mid gen refresh console, In which MS will have an SSD triple as fast.
The SSD on the PS5 sounds more and more like the Cell by the day.
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Jason Schreier's industry sources: PS5 is superior in ways that Sony has not communicated yet
- Thread starter LordOfChaos
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Just in time for the mid gen refresh console, In which MS will have an SSD triple as fast.
The SSD on the PS5 sounds more and more like the Cell by the day.
Jon Neu
Banned
People* seem to forget Mark Cerny is just an employee of Sony.
It's literally his job to oversell his consoles and downplay the others.
he did:
Mark Cerny thinks 8TF is the minimum for native 4K gaming
Incidentally, he mentioned that his personal estimate is that rendering at native 4K across the board would require a minimum of 8 teraFLOPS of computing power, and thats not something that can be achieved at a reasonable price this year. That said, users will be able to discern the difference...
which means that we shouldnt take everything he says 100% for granted. Im not saying that he is lying, but just that we need proof, sony needs to show us something. show us a true RT demo, a PS4 enhanced game etc. maybe it comes later, lets wait and see.
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Wow, this is either incredibly bad faith posting twisting facts or feigning ignorance to the n-th degree.
The two statements by Cerny are separate and refer to different things, but they are not different enough to prevent some disingenuous or factually incorrect claim that they are one and the same which allows people to troll it. Almost as if saying something correct was less important than pissing other people off or scoring a win.
The >8 TFLOPS remark was about Performance he expected GPU’s to have in terms of standard floats processing performance (FP32, which is the majority of modern game codebase rendering wise) and the 8.4 TFLOPS at half float level (FP16) was just a way to explain to a general audience the equivalent Performance when running FP16 code.
Given the non zero number of titles on Xbox One X that drop either frames or employ dynamic resolution, or both, his comment was not off the mark (no pun intended). Although I bet there may be one or two sub 4K titles on the new gen consoles too once it is all said and done
.Funny thing is that I am like 100% sure if you asked around the industry practically nobody would call him misleading or intellectually dishonest hype man but fanboys on forums.
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
He is actually an independent contractor and a widely respected industry professional with a lot of years spent designing games and programming optimal code (and even doing performance evaluation of pre-production HW) for the last 25+ years, but yes go ahead
.Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
he did:
Mark Cerny thinks 8TF is the minimum for native 4K gaming
Incidentally, he mentioned that his personal estimate is that rendering at native 4K across the board would require a minimum of 8 teraFLOPS of computing power, and thats not something that can be achieved at a reasonable price this year. That said, users will be able to discern the difference...www.neogaf.com
which means that we shouldnt take everything he says 100% for granted. Im not saying that he is lying, but just that we need proof, sony needs to show us something. show us a true RT demo, a PS4 enhanced game etc. maybe it comes later, lets wait and see.
Again about the Cerny PS4 Pro quotes...
“The >8 TFLOPS remark was about Performance he expected GPU’s to have in terms of standard floats processing performance (FP32, which is the majority of modern game codebase rendering wise) and the 8.4 TFLOPS at half float level (FP16) was just a way to explain to a general audience the equivalent Performance when running FP16 code.
Given the non zero number of titles on Xbox One X that drop either frames or employ dynamic resolution, or both, his comment was not off the mark (no pun intended). Although I bet there may be one or two sub 4K titles on the new gen consoles too once it is all said and done
.”
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
he did:
Mark Cerny thinks 8TF is the minimum for native 4K gaming
Incidentally, he mentioned that his personal estimate is that rendering at native 4K across the board would require a minimum of 8 teraFLOPS of computing power, and thats not something that can be achieved at a reasonable price this year. That said, users will be able to discern the difference...
which means that we shouldnt take everything he says 100% for granted. Im not saying that he is lying, but just that we need proof, sony needs to show us something. show us a true RT demo, a PS4 enhanced game etc. maybe it comes later, lets wait and see.
You are misunderstanding what FP16 means and why it was used in the PS4 Pro. Please read more and learn before calling Cerny a liar.
Jon Neu
Banned
He is actually an independent contractor and a widely respected industry professional with a lot of years spent designing games and programming optimal code (and even doing performance evaluation of pre-production HW) for the last 25+ years, but yes go ahead
Like so many other professionals that aren't simply as mediatic as him.
And he is still a Sony employee.
DUDE, I literally said "Im not saying that he is lying" lol wtf are you talking about?
I'm just saying that I want some proof, tech demos, some videos, show me the box, show me the CPU, ANYTHING!
look how much MS showed: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2020-inside-xbox-series-x-full-specs
So, Sony, just show us SOMETHING at least.
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
They will show us. In the coming months.... They are SOOONY after all.
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manzo
Member
Once TLOU2 and Tsushima are out, they will go balls deep in all things PS5. They don't want the PS5 to steal the thunder of their last two large releases, they still got games to sell. MS doesn't have anything in the pipeline for Xbox One anymore that they need to protect, on the contrary; they want to wash their hands and scrub off all the schism from Xbox One and Don Mattrick. They will get a clean start and boy, it will be glorious. Sony will get a run for their money. The meaner and hard-core the race, the better end result for us gamers.
It's June-July and then pretty much constant bombardment from Sony, while MS keeps pounding.
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Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
Yep, I don't know what happened between him and Sony but his timeline is all Microsoft retweets, Series X stuff, there's even some TimDog and Jez Corden tags
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
This is no worse than Xbox saying Xbox One has the power of 10 Xboxes in the cloudfrom the same guy said the following:
Mark Cerny: PlayStation 4 Pro Could Achieve 8.4 Teraflops Of Computational Power
PlayStation 4 Pro has been in the talks one way or another ever since Sony revealed it during the PlayStation Meeting last month. The most prominentsegmentnext.com
So tell me again how did 16-bit computation RADICALLY INCREASE PERFORMANCE - double the performance - for 3rd party games? How? and where? thanks
Yeah, I will take anything this guys says for granted. PS4 PRO IS a 8.4 Tflops machine at ALL times! Amazing. All I'm saying is, give me proof and don't belive EVERYTHING large corporations tell you, they should prove it
We see how that turned out
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hyperbertha
Member
So before RTX came, were you saying it won't exist because 'there was no factual evidence of raytracing in gaming to back it up?' For anyone who understands how streaming works, SSD's ABSOLUTELY WILL upgrade games in ways beyond what RTX or a couple few extra teraflops can. And yes, Xbox series X will benefit from this too, But facts are facts, it faces severe memory limitations that the PS5 doesn't, so in this department, the PS5 has a significant advantage.
PocoJoe
Banned
You should check your hearing, because you hear stupid shit.
It is nothing like cell situation, but I guess people like you just lack the knowledge and understanding so it is waste of time trying to explain.
CELL: difficult to use 100%, expensive, hard to code in games, not praised by devs, made things harder
PS5 ssd: the opposite
"Sounds like cell".. stupidest thing I have read today
hyperbertha
Member
What did I just read? You have NO CLUE how this works at all.
not fucking surprised. Half the fanboy-GAF is pulling buggers out of their asses and pretending their know what they are talking about.
replicant-
Member
One thing for sure - Sony’s messaging and reveal has been awful.
Compared to the PS4 it is night and day.
Compared to the PS4 it is night and day.
how is he wrong though?
Let’s see:
1. The RAM IS that fast and faster than PS5.
true or false?
True based on specs released.
2. All Series X needs is fast enough SSD to feed that Ram and 2.4GBs (4.8 compressed) should be more than enough. So all this SSD talk might not be as meaningful as people think.
True or false?
well, so far Sony did not show us how SSD provides an advantage besides loading times. No other thing has been shown.
Sony only talked about it.
I want to see a demo where the exactly shows how having a faster ssd from Xbox series X compared to ps5 will make the games „faster“. How is this supposed to be working?
Do you really believe that devs will create games that will ONLY WORK on SSDs with the speed of the ps5 and will NOT or work much worse on ALL OTHER SSDs on the planet? Like for ALL PC gamers for example?
And how so? The Sony’s ssd is slower than DDR3 btw. Lol
Still don’t get it how Sony’s SSDs will help, Sony didn’t show anything at all, except loading times, which are marginally faster on ps5 compared to Xbox series x.
but both are very short in terms of loading screens, so it doesn’t really matter that much.
To devs? GDC? Aren't the xbox fans always talking about how multiplatform games make up 99% of the market so those devs would be working on both.
and 99.9% Multi-platform games sell better on PS4. F A C T
Not true at all. They showed a game traversing the city seamlessly.
Whereas last gen froze to stream in assets. They clearly showed the advantages.
megreotsugua
Banned
You're only saying that now because Sony hasn't shown their OS features yet. They haven't spoken about some little details. They haven't started their full-blown campaign. And of course, they haven't started showing their games.
Once they start showcasing what the PS5 can do, those kind of FUD will be gone for good.
Protip: Don't forget how good and amazing Sony World Wide Studio games has produced in a non-SSD 1.8TF machine. Just imagine what they can accomplish in a 10.3TF PS5 with an SSD of 22gb/s I/O throughput.
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Agnostic2020
Member
ram is better on PS5. PS5 will have most of the 16 gb allocated to games due to their SSD hiting 22gb/s which is more than capable to handle OS functions extremely fast(usually they need ddr4 for OS which is 15 gb/s but PS5 doesnt need that as SSD can hit 22+gb/s) VS for XSX 10gb for gpu for games and 3.5 gb for cpu and low level graphical tasks for games and 2.5 gb os.
And what about these devs? I assume they are also extremely petty and lame being more interested in an inferior console?
Oops.
This was BEFORE the reveal. Would be interesting to see how the interest has changed. Are people still that interested or more interested in Xbox series x now?
Would be interested how the different reveals might have changed the perception and interest.
But when and where are they going to show it, if it’s so great?
I mean people also said that it’s going to be a 13TFLOPS machine and we should just wait for the reveal. Guess what happened?
But okay. I guess we’ll see. Hopefully soon.
Camstun187
Neo Member
I hope so!
BattleScar
Member
Yeah, double-rate FP16 is so useless that AMD has had it in all architectures from Vega onwards. So fuckig useless that Nvidia adopted double-rate FP16 in Turing.
As I have stated elsewhere, full single-precision (FP32) compute is not all needed for all graphical/gaming workloads. In those instances you can more than get away with using half-precision (FP16). In microarchitectures with double-rate FP16, you can perform 2 FP16 operations for ever 1 FP32 operation. Double the throughput. Which means if you code smart, you can extract a reasonable performance increase. Its not necessarily going to be exactly double the performance. But Cerny wasn't lying when he said the PS4 Pro can do 8.4TF of FP16. Its the truth.
Also, given that quite a lot of XB1X titles (if not the majority) run at 1440p which is subsequently upscaled to 4K, I'd say he was probably right in his assessment that you need about 8TF to run at 4K native, without some penalties in image quality/graphical fidelity.
Cock of War
Member
Paradigm shifts are often difficult to comprehend initially, this has always been the case historically speaking for all facets of life (the earth is not flat, not the center of the universe/solar system and other shifts in science theory etc.).
Try to at least watch the Cernysermon and begin to understand that PS5 boost does not work like you suggest.
It is deterministic, repeatable across all PS5s and based on power draw, not thermals. I.e. it is fully under the developers control.
KlickKlack
Banned
where's the proof that i can't do the same with 1000MB/s SSD?
In this demo i see HDD vs SSD and not a Fast SSD vs Ultrafast SSD.
you understand?
eastwood333
Banned
He designed the PS4 and PS5. Of course he is going to hype his own design over the competition.He is actually an independent contractor and a widely respected industry professional with a lot of years spent designing games and programming optimal code (and even doing performance evaluation of pre-production HW) for the last 25+ years, but yes go ahead
eastwood333
Banned
Can MS up the clocks on the XSX given the size of the console and how low clock speeds are at the moment?
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lol this was 10 months ago.
but what do you mean? what has this to do with SSD? do you think that game traversing the city is only possible with SSD? Because I can do this in GTA and RDR2 without any problem?
Tumle
Member
Both consoles TF is theoretical for now right?
So bottlenecks in data flow and optimisation software can prove to even the playing field or make it bigger..
Right now it’s just a pissing contest in who theoretically has the bigger penis..
Because no one has shown a game running on either system..
I’m very much looking forward to see how it all turns out. If the brute power of the Xsx will be the winning formula or if the ps5s more “exotic“ approach will benefit them
So bottlenecks in data flow and optimisation software can prove to even the playing field or make it bigger..
Right now it’s just a pissing contest in who theoretically has the bigger penis..
Because no one has shown a game running on either system..
I’m very much looking forward to see how it all turns out. If the brute power of the Xsx will be the winning formula or if the ps5s more “exotic“ approach will benefit them
KlickKlack
Banned
lo
because of new MS tech in the xsx the 10GB of DDR6 560GB/s ram is equal to 20-30GB DDR6 ram in todays PCs.
Sony has no chance. fact
Sampler Feedback Streaming (SFS) –
A component of the Xbox Velocity Architecture, SFS is a feature of the Xbox Series X hardware that allows games to load into memory, with fine granularity, only the portions of textures that the GPU needs for a scene, as it needs it. This enables far better memory utilization for textures, which is important given that every 4K texture consumes 8MB of memory. Because it avoids the wastage of loading into memory the portions of textures that are never needed, it is an effective 2x or 3x (or higher) multiplier on both amount of physical memory and SSD performance.
lol....
because of new MS tech in the xsx the 10GB of DDR6 560GB/s ram is equal to 20-30GB DDR6 ram in todays PCs.
Sony has no chance. fact
Sampler Feedback Streaming (SFS) –
A component of the Xbox Velocity Architecture, SFS is a feature of the Xbox Series X hardware that allows games to load into memory, with fine granularity, only the portions of textures that the GPU needs for a scene, as it needs it. This enables far better memory utilization for textures, which is important given that every 4K texture consumes 8MB of memory. Because it avoids the wastage of loading into memory the portions of textures that are never needed, it is an effective 2x or 3x (or higher) multiplier on both amount of physical memory and SSD performance.
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eastwood333
Banned
Agnostic2020
Member
Ok but you said they didn't show the advantages of SSD besides loading time which was false. Did MS show that gears of war 5 (an xbox one game) couldn't run on a PS5 with the same detail as it did on series x? No.
Yes it was ten months ago which means that they were already showing the advantages ages ago and this is what the big generational leap will be in terms of game design. Yes you could do that in GTA but not with the same speed and detail.
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eastwood333
Banned
The only thing theoretical is the notion that a faster ssd will compensate or even surpass the XSX advantages in gpu,cpu,bandwidth in terms of real world results for graphics etc...Both consoles TF is theoretical for now right?
So bottlenecks in data flow and optimisation software can prove to even the playing field or make it bigger..
Right now it’s just a pissing contest in who theoretically has the bigger penis..
Because no one has shown a game running on either system..
I’m very much looking forward to see how it all turns out. If the brute power of the Xsx will be the winning formula or if the ps5s more “exotic“ approach will benefit them
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Dontero
Banned
Not it is not. If power delivery is constant it literally means console will downclock. I mean they literally say that clock speeds are variable. How much down-clocking we are talking about is only something Sony knows.
PS5 - clocks and temperature may vary, power is constant.
XSX - temperature, power may vary, clocks are constant.
There are two factors here. Reliability, performance and sustainability.
If you have temperature as constant you are getting reliability.
If you have clocks as constant you are getting performance.
If you have power as constant you are getting sustainability, aka you can predict amount of power your hardware needs like in case of servers.
PS5 targeting power only makes sense when you have to run whole warehouse of PS5s and you need to know exactly how much power your warehouse needs.
XSX targeting performance is actually something that user can benefit from as gaming will get better.
wtf did I just read? xD
what else did they show then besides loading screens? traversing the city without loading screens is nothing new, and can also be achieved without ssd
jonnyp
Member
That's great if it does. Gears 5 looks so clean and smooth in 4K60fps on the Series X. Yummy.
KlickKlack
Banned
haha for sure buddy
.
Sampler Feedback Streaming (SFS) –
A component of the Xbox Velocity Architecture, SFS is a feature of the Xbox Series X hardware that allows games to load into memory, with fine granularity, only the portions of textures that the GPU needs for a scene, as it needs it. This enables far better memory utilization for textures, which is important given that every 4K texture consumes 8MB of memory. Because it avoids the wastage of loading into memory the portions of textures that are never needed,
>>>it is an effective 2x or 3x (or higher) multiplier on both amount of physical memory and SSD performance." <<<
What in the RED PART you're not understanding?
sonomamashine
Member
Agnostic2020
Member
this is about ssd and i dont need to tell you which one has the better solution. anyways we shall see soon.
remember my take for later : PS5 more detailed scene with better LOD, xsx higher resolution scene with blurry/less draw distance in scene.
Agnostic2020
Member
which part u didnt understand? i can explain . but knowing your posts in this thread u didnt want to understand which is fine also
eastwood333
Banned
People who know nothing about what they're talking about need to seriously stop spouting nonsense.
Agnostic2020
Member
tell me. whats the issue.
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