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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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megreotsugua

megreotsugua

Banned
James Sawyer Ford said:
according to VFXVeteran VFXVeteran PS5 games will only look as good as Assassin's Creed looks today at max PC settings
Click to expand...

That fear was valid knowing the current top of the line specs doesn't give enough power for a generational leap. And the fact that we will not have a 16x increase in RAM capacity.

Then we learned about Sony SSD which can stream data to the GPU at a speed never before seen. Data can be fed to the GPU from the SSD as soon as the player turns view. (not just because of raw speed but especially I/O throughput)

We'll see the next generational leap that many are expecting next-gen. Sony World Wide Studios will be the first ones to show that. (no last-gen machine to shackle their ambition)
 
Neo_game

Neo_game

Member
MarkMe2525 said:
It was just an analogy. My point being apu customizations didn't matter much in the long run. It was the pure compute advantage of PS4 that showed to be its greatest strength.
Click to expand...

It is the other way round. Bandwidth was the worst part about Xbox. tflops does not matter much may be few fps but resolution will depend on BW
 
MarkMe2525

MarkMe2525

Member
Neo_game said:
It is the other way round. Bandwidth was the worst part about Xbox. tflops does not matter much may be few fps but resolution will depend on BW
Click to expand...
Im generalizing but I saw a 40% advantage in gpu compute for Sony and their games generally ran at 40% higher resolution.
 
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megreotsugua

megreotsugua

Banned
CJY said:
What did he say?
Click to expand...
blog.us.playstation.com

Hermen Hulst Q&A: Interview with Head of PlayStation’s Worldwide Studios

What's next for Guerrilla, upcoming TV and film projects, and the guiding principles that drive PlayStation’s network of world-class game studios.
blog.us.playstation.com blog.us.playstation.com

PSB: PlayStation is no stranger to publishing titles on the PC, but Horizon: Zero Dawn is one of the largest games to make that leap. Is there anything you would say to PlayStation fans? What does it mean for the future?
Click to expand...
HH: Sure. I think it’s important that we stay open to new ideas of how to introduce more people to PlayStation, and show people maybe what they’ve been missing out on.

And to maybe put a few minds at ease, releasing one first-party AAA title to PC doesn’t necessarily mean that every game now will come to PC. In my mind, Horizon Zero Dawn was just a great fit in this particular instance. We don’t have plans for day and date [PC releases], and we remain 100% committed to dedicated hardware.
Click to expand...


Releasing HZD on PC is a business strategic move to have PC players have a taste of one of PS exclusives and hook them to buy PS5 in the future.
 
SonGoku

SonGoku

Member
VFXVeteran said:
How much data do you think the PS5 can handle AFTER it gets into RAM? Let's say being conservative you have 12G of RAM total to run a game, load textures and any other datasets you want stored in main memory. What is the realworld case of needing to use the full potential of an SSD drive's speed? Let's look at the PS exclusives and assume sequels:
Click to expand...
  1. Games designed for PS4 are not a good indication or representation of what to expect from PS5, nobody can assume to know what direction each of Sony studios will take. SSD + decent CPU is a game design changer after all.
  2. Im not claiming the PS5 will be streaming 9GB/s uninterrupted throughout the whole game, but it is a typical estimate given by cerny (not peak), who im sure you know spoken with different devs and is a dev him self, even if it's not all the time when it does output data at those rates a PC equipped with a 3GB/s drive will need a big DDR4 buffer to make up the difference
As for the use cases Cerny mentioned streaming data as you turn, stream assets on the fly only keep data in ram needed for the next 1 second of gameplay
VFXVeteran said:
I'd love to bet on that.
Click to expand...
Sure
 
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CJY

CJY

Banned
megreotsugua said:
blog.us.playstation.com

Hermen Hulst Q&A: Interview with Head of PlayStation’s Worldwide Studios

What's next for Guerrilla, upcoming TV and film projects, and the guiding principles that drive PlayStation’s network of world-class game studios.
blog.us.playstation.com blog.us.playstation.com

Releasing HZD on PC is a business strategic move to have PC players have a taste of one of PS exclusives and hook them to buy PS5 in the future.
Click to expand...

Cool, thanks for that bro. I read it. Seems pretty conclusive. VFXVeteran VFXVeteran seems to think Sony are planning to ditch their multi-billion dollar hardware empire to put all their games on PC though. Guess Hermen Hulst could be lying though or he doesn't know. VFXVeteran knows.

husomc said:
SONY !!! When is the next nextgen info drop ?
Click to expand...
Ask VFXVeteran VFXVeteran , maybe he can tell us.
 
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E

eastwood333

Banned
VanSiriusGabriel said:
Couldn't care less about details at this point.
Details are for trailers, better use the tech for expanding gameplay and interactivity. Graphics will improve anyway.
At this point in time, I completely refuse to play another corridor game with mediocre puzzle elements, but with good graphic.
Click to expand...
kyliethicc said:
The MLB thing wasn’t a choice. The MLB was going to take away their license unless they did. But software and hardware combined sell ecosystems and brands. Nintendo gets it. That’s why Mario isn’t on any other platform. They sell 20 or 30 million units of every Mario Kart just because there’s no other way to buy it. That’s genius. PlayStation is going to end eroding their unique brand to chase short term sales. It’s dangerous, risky.
Click to expand...

You do not know any such thing. You're guessing. Were you there to witness these talks? Do you work for Sony San Diego?Do you work for MLB? Why do morons on here mix guessing with facts?

And as I said before, more and more PS4 games are going to PC. There is zero reasons to expect that to change. Money is in game sells, subscriptions, and reaching out to as many gamers on as many platforms as possible.
 
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kyliethicc

kyliethicc

Member
eastwood333 said:
You do not know any such thing. You're guessing. Were you there to witness these talks? Do you work for Sony San Diego?Do you work for MLB? Why do morons on here mix guessing with facts?

And as I said before, more and more PS4 games are going to PC. There is zero reasons to expect that to change. Money is in game sells, subscriptions, and reaching out to as many gamers on as many platforms as possible.
Click to expand...
lol why wouldn’t the MLB want their game on all platforms? FIFA NBA Madden aren’t exclusives either. Not exactly a hard guess. Moron.
 
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Omega Supreme Holopsicon

Omega Supreme Holopsicon

Member
eastwood333 said:
There is zero reasons to expect that to change. Money is in game sells, subscriptions, and reaching out to as many gamers on as many platforms as possible.
Click to expand...
steam gets 30% cut,iirc. If they have sales that would be good assuming it doesn't cause a drop in sales for the console versions.

If they don't get significant full price sales on steam and only get sub 10$ sales, that would not be worth it.
 
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mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
CJY said:
So I found this thread on Reddit and it seems to explain the memory structure of XSX very well:





I don't really understand why MS did this. I guess it's because they needed the 10 chips for their larger CU count and a cost-cutting measure. While it's not as bad a setup as I thought it was originally, in many ways it's smart, but feck me if it's not still a MASSIVE compromise compared to what Cerny did.

The XSX setup seems worse than having a completely separate pool of RAM on a separate bus as the slower RAM can intrude on the fast RAM's ability to access itself on that channel.

XSX essentially only has 4GB of unencumbered RAM.
Click to expand...


How is this possible? I read the tweets and still don't understand.
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Ascend said:
Answering a question with another question is rude, but I'll humor you. Theoretically, with say 4 times the power you can push 4 times the pixels. So if you could run 1080p 60fps, theoretically (I know it's more complicated than that, but spare me), you could run the exact same game at 4K 60FPS.

Care to answer now? Is comparing the generation jump difference like I did viable, or does it fall into the 'making things up' category according to you?
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter. That's the point. We comparing next-gen systems. Not the generational leaps they made from last gen.
 
SgtCaffran

SgtCaffran

Member
VFXVeteran said:
I may be despised by some for not saying things people want to hear but that's OK.

I just don't like seeing language from people who act like they work right beside the people making decisions. If you were to say "my thoughts are.." or "I hope that Sony..." etc.. that would be OK. It's just annoying to make statements that I know are blatantly false.
Click to expand...
No you are despised by some for being a complete troll whos only agenda seems to be to push PC in a console thread.

Also, if you have information, get vetted on it or stfu. We have had enough unreliable insider news the last few months.

Sony confirmed they're not going to release Sony exclusives on PC day and date. Can this change? Sure. But right now, that's simply not their strategy.
 
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Moses85

Moses85

Member
Metroiddarks

Metroiddarks

Member
BlackBuzzard said:
Digital Clownery.
Click to expand...
I dont see it in that way DF are very good in its works but they are not dev from a AAA studio so that means for them the
declarations of Sony can be just marketing.

Also this fault of Sony for not even showing a tech demo of this because maybe you think you can acomplish the same
with a 2 GB/s than with 5 GB/s (in general terms) if you dont have more GPU power (I share a similar opinion).

This the work of Sony show the opposite and proof DF was in a mistake. The same for us is funny this kind of discussion
but in the for those companies we are only numbers.
 
Shmunter

Shmunter

Member
Just had a look at that thread on reera where Dicktater proclaimed ssd won’t contribute to open world etc. Even the soy boy contingent there universally went Huh?

There’s nothing to see here. Just another poorly informed individual with minor clout. Clout that’s evaporating fast after a show of ignorance.
 
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C

CuriousToe

Member
I can't believe we're still paying any attention to VFX Veteran. I can't hold the recent insider bungle against him, because pretty much all insiders appear to have missed the mark there.

However his shtick is always the same. He will take the best looking console games, pick them apart and tell you why PC does it better. Getting the obvious out of the way, a hypothetical PC with top of the line hardware will inevitably outperform a $400-500 all in one device.

The issue is that his opinion rarely relates to visuals. With every console generation, developers get a new spec range to work with, old consoles are phased out, older PCs fall behind, and most importantly, visuals leap forward across the board. Stating that next generation console games will not look any better than Detroit on PC, or AC on PC, is completely incorrect. Inevitably next gen games will look incredible and it won't be long before you see GTA6 or Horizon 2 and the consensus will be that they look much better than anything else out at the moment.

VFX will look at it, spin it, tell you PC does it better or it doesn't look as good as X if you look at this light source, at this angle, with this reflection. And technically it might be correct. But it's missing the forest for the trees.

Look forward to next generation games. Once devs get a handle on the hardware, they are going to make PC Detroit look shit and VFX will need to move the goalposts for the 100th time.
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
-kb- said:
What part dont you understand.
Click to expand...

I can't wrap my mind around what happens if a game has say 12 GBs of "gaming" data that needs to be used in RAM and how that affects the bandwidth speed.

Metroiddarks said:
I was no expecting the devs from SIE express is disagreement so openly on twitter against the DF opinions
Click to expand...


DF's opinions on the PS5 to some degree are odd. Like how Alex believes the SSD in the PS5 hope drastically change open-world games, yet if you look at this 2-minute section of an Insomniac dev explaining why they had to create a "fake" loading screen in Spiderman due to the slow HDD speed and RAM issues in the PS4, they'd understand that an SSD in the PS5 is a game-changer for open-world games too.

 
kyliethicc

kyliethicc

Member
Shmunter said:
Just had a look at that thread on reera where Dicktater proclaimed ssd won’t contribute to open world etc. Even the soy boy contingent there universally went Huh?

There’s nothing to see here. Just another poorly informed individual with minor clout. Clout that’s evaporating fast after show of high level of ignorance.
Click to expand...
Yeah but he played Control WITH ray tracing. That means he knows how all games will forever be able to be made. forever. He knows. Even though he’s never made a game.
 
Lunatic_Gamer

Lunatic_Gamer

Gold Member
K

-kb-

Member
mckmas8808 said:
I can't wrap my mind around what happens if a game has say 12 GBs of "gaming" data that needs to be used in RAM and how that affects the bandwidth speed.



DF's opinions on the PS5 to some degree are odd. Like how Alex believes the SSD in the PS5 hope drastically change open-world games, yet if you look at this 2-minute section of an Insomniac dev explaining why they had to create a "fake" loading screen in Spiderman due to the slow HDD speed and RAM issues in the PS4, they'd understand that an SSD in the PS5 is a game-changer for open-world games too.

Click to expand...


It affects the bandwidth relative to how much you access the extra 2GB.

So if its ends up that you access the slow pool 50% of the time and the fast pool the other 50% of the time you get (560 * 0.5 + 360 * 0.5)
 
kyliethicc

kyliethicc

Member
Lunatic_Gamer said:
wccftech.com

Xbox Series X Will Chip Into PS4's Market Share But PS5 Will Still Be the Best-Selling System - DFC

According to game research firm DFC Intelligence, the Xbox Series X will chip into PS4's market share but PS5 will still end up on top.
wccftech.com wccftech.com

That’s to be expected. PlayStation shall remain the number one worldwide. Microsoft on the other hand might reclaim the number one position here in North America though.
Click to expand...
Sales aren’t even a debate. PlayStation 1,2,3,4 combined have outsold the NES, SNES, N64, GameCube, Wii, and Wii U .... and Xbox, Xbox 360, and Xbox One..... all combined. (And that’s assuming the Xbox One has sold over 50m units, which no one knows it has yet.) The worst selling PlayStation is the 5th best selling console ever. The 5 best selling consoles ever are the 4 PlayStations and the WiI. PS5 will sell fine.
 
S

scie

Member
Hey guys, this one crossed my mind. So... the biggest cost factor of a console is the SOC. It is determind by die size and yield rate. We know the die size of the series X 360mm² and in 7nm it won´t be cheap to produce. We still don´t know the die size of the PS5. From the Cerny presentation it could be that the custom SSD controller could be on the SOC which increase the die size by a good portion. Even if it is not in the SOC this custom controller is in my opinion much more expensive than the of the shelve Phison controller of the series X.

Bloomberg speculatet a PS5 BOM of 450$ and a lot of people estimate that the Series X BOM is 50-80$ higher (500-530$). But Sony uses a lot of custom hardware wether it is the SSD controller or the tempest engine and we don´t know what else. Microsoft uses a lot of "of the shelve" parts like their Phison SSD ontroller, maybe even their audio chip is something which already exists on the market. The cooling solution of the series x which its vapor champer cooling block seems also cheaper than Sonys special solution (see patent and my guess).

My guess:

SOC: at least for now series X should be more expensive, but we have to see the die size of the PS5. If the controller of the PS5 is build into the SOC, they could be roughly the same
SSD controller: PS5 custom controller more expensive than Phison controller on series X.
RAM: both the same, if there a differences they will be negligible
cooling: we will see, but if the Bloomberg article is right, than the PS5 solution would cost more
audio: we don´t know yet. Maybe Sonys solution is more expensive, maybe not. I gues the same or maybe a little more costly for Sony
other components: almost the same

My guess the series x BOM can be around the same as the BOM of PS5 and won´t be 50-80$ higher. I know it might sound crazy, but Sony uses a lot of custom hardware.
 
kyliethicc

kyliethicc

Member
pasterpl said:
Devs from sie have got hands on access to the console/dev kits, df is basing their opinion on info from Sony and Cerny talk. Df doesn’t have access to the hardware at this time so all their statements so far are assumptions.
Click to expand...
People also forget DF are NOT game devs. They do great reporting of game releases in terms of resolution and frame rate. Consumer focused analysis of final games. But I don’t think any of them have made games right ?
 
pasterpl

pasterpl

Member
scie said:
My guess the series x BOM can be around the same as the BOM of PS5 and won´t be 50-80$ higher. I know it might sound crazy, but Sony uses a lot of custom hardware.
Click to expand...

this is assumption, it may as well be that Sony is using off the shelf solutions but customise these Or create custom apis for these and named them different based on this.
 
Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
TBiddy said:
And other people consider Death Stranding to be a masterpiece. Each to their own I guess. Why not enjoy your own games instead of acting like a douche about someone elses preferred games?
Click to expand...

Man, Death Stranding is a masterpiece. Ok, say like Life of the Black Tiger then we can comprehend it. :messenger_winking_tongue:
 
Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
TBiddy said:
EACH TO THEIR OWN I SAID! :(
Click to expand...

3tyhn3.jpg
 
B_Boss

B_Boss

Member
T-I-N-M-A-N dX said:
I feel bad that the PS5 guys gotta do so much digging to be hyped for their console.

It’s a PS5 it’s gonna be 🔥regardless, why y’all looking for all the yabuts
Click to expand...

Is that a negative thing? Neither MS not Sony have released every detail of their console so it’s up to those (such as ourselves, hobbyists) to read, view, and discuss which, frankly, is pretty fun and awesome to do.

The hype for each console is in place. We don’t need to do the analysis for hype though it (moreso than not) adds to hype/excitement depending on your console of choice. Why not just let folks do the digging and reading do the digging and reading and let those who don’t care, not care lol. Odd comment either way.
 
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