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[Hulk_Smash]

I just got through watching this pretty fascinating tech video comparing low Hz/FPS and high Hz/FPS. All PC gamers know how much of a difference it makes, but this video gives live experimental footage that pretty much seals the deal for me that high Hz/FPS is a massive game changer and should be what devs shoot for... but, won't. And there's not a whole lot we can do about. Here's the video:



I'm NOT a tech guy. Some of ya'll will probably think this is old news by now, but man, I'm blown away by how much of a difference it makes. And yes, reaction time is all they're testing, but I can imagine how buttery-smooth it would make most games LOOK when in motion. I have a 144 hz monitor and I can tell the difference just at that level.

But, in order to get to that level, you not only have to have a high end card, but also a monitor that can support the higher Hz. That is a high price to pay for that difference. And that's just for Counter Strike. A game that is certainly not pushing any hardware any more. I think it's more of a pipe dream to achieve any level of mainstream acceptance/usage than even something like raytracing. Because, at least with ray tracing, you don't need the high end monitor.

People in the comment section of the video pointed out that this is actually making a good case for sticking with console for shooters. Because at least there, everyone has the same experience. PC is just too uneven. Even the joe-schmoe in the video had better hit detection with the higher refresh rate.

Will tv manufacturers ever increase the Hz on a common TV? Will this level of gaming ever achieve mainstream acceptance and usage?

 

[Jigsaah]

I think they will, but will be slow to implement because the TV's out there most do 120hz via interpolation.

 

[RealGassy]

But, in order to get to that level, you not only have to have a high end card, but also a monitor that can support the higher Hz. That is a high price to pay for that difference. And that's just for Counter Strike

144hz monitors really cost nothing now. It's pretty much a standart feature.
There's nothing high-end about 144hz monitor (pretty much mainstream for PC gaming)
CS doesn't need a highend GPU either.

Even 240hz monitors are not all that expensive, but they certainly are more of a niche thing.

For example, Doom Eternal is very easy to run at 144hz+ too with very basic midrangey hardware.

 

[CJY]

I think we're very likely to "gaming TVs" next gen that run at 120Hz. More likely that than 8K become mainstream.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

I have a couple of 144 hz displays a tested a 240 hz and here is my conclusion.

When I jumped from 60 hz to 144 hz it was a massive change and I loved it.

Going from 144 to 240 it didn't feel any different.

But after using the 240 hz for a few weeks when I went back to 144 I could feel the drop, things were not as fluid in game.

Now that I am back used to 144 thats where I plan to stay and really hope next gen devs want to push 1440p 120hz games.

 

[Hulk_Smash]

144hz monitors really cost nothing now. It's pretty much a standart feature.
There's nothing high-end about 144hz monitor (pretty much mainstream for PC gaming)
CS doesn't need a highend GPU either.

Even 240hz monitors are not all that expensive, but they certainly are more of a niche thing.

For example, Doom Eternal is very easy to run at 144hz+ too with very basic midrangey hardware.

The difference in price is big enough. My monitor cost $300 3 years ago. Might be cheaper now, but so are 60 Hz monitors. I just don’t think even the average PC gamer is going to understand or appreciate the difference it makes.

I kinda wish that tv manufacturers will start touting higher Hz as the next big thing. Might be a marketing gimmick like 3D or whatever but hey it’s a gimmick I would buy into!

 

[Hendrick's]

Shroud got embarrassed big time.

 

[FeldMonster]

TV manufacturers are already rolling out "true" 120 Hz on their flagship 4K HDR models, so within a few years it will be more commonplace. That is why when people argue that "most people don't have 4K, or HDR", or in this case 120 Hz, so there is no need for future games and consoles to support them, I want to pull my hair out. Considering consoles last 5 - 8 years, the console manufacturers cannot be as short sighted as gamers, they have to anticipate the future situation. In this case, 4K, HDR, and 120 Hz will be much more common.

All that being said, I personally cannot tell the difference between 30 fps and 60 fps, so 120 fps means almost nothing to me.

 

[MiyazakiHatesKojima]

60 FPS is enough for me.

Never understood the obsession with 90+FPS, to be frankly honest, unless you're a professional esports gamer.

Resolution/fidelity > Framerate/hertz

 

[T-Cake]

I wonder if this is really only for keyboard and mouse players though. Can you tell the difference at 120Hz with a gamepad which is naturally slower for moving the camera?

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

60 FPS is enough for me.

Never understood the obsession with 90+FPS, to be frankly honest, unless you're a professional esports gamer.

Resolution/fidelity > Framerate/hertz

Its quite interesting how people feel about higher fps.

I am 53 years old and going back to even 60 fps is quite jarring to me when playing a game like Rocket League.

When my 30 year old son visits who plays more games then I do he can not tell the difference between 60 to 144 fps.

Had my 15 year old nephew come over who plays Fortnite on a base PS4 and when he played on my PC at 144 he was blown away how fast he felt, he kept saying its so smooth.

I wonder if this is really only for keyboard and mouse players though. Can you tell the difference at 120Hz with a gamepad which is naturally slower for moving the camera?

I 100% play on PC with a controller and high frame rate is the biggest game changer for me even on controller.

 

[RealGassy]

The difference in price is big enough. My monitor cost $300 3 years ago. Might be cheaper now, but so are 60 Hz monitors. I just don’t think even the average PC gamer is going to understand or appreciate the difference it makes.

I kinda wish that tv manufacturers will start touting higher Hz as the next big thing. Might be a marketing gimmick like 3D or whatever but hey it’s a gimmick I would buy into!

I suspect you underestimate an average PC gamer.
I can't imagine anyone buying a PC for gaming, without buying a 144hz monitor to go along with it.

Maybe if you're buying a low-end price-perf value gaming PC. And don't intend to play competitive fps-es at all.

 

[Stuart360]

60 FPS is enough for me.

Never understood the obsession with 90+FPS, to be frankly honest, unless you're a professional esports gamer.

Resolution/fidelity > Framerate/hertz

Higher frames are better, but you dont 'need' more than 60fps. Its not like saying 30fps is more than enough. 30fps can cause problems, while not looking great, but 60fps is more than enough for me.
I think the confusement starts because 60fps looks so good on a 60htz tv, but 60fps can look a little framey on high refresh monitors. I think thats why people pull out the 'stupid PC master race' card when some PC users moan about 60fps, but 60fps on a 60htz tv is great and i'd prefer that over reduced graphics and 100+fps.

 

[Hulk_Smash]

60 FPS is enough for me.

Never understood the obsession with 90+FPS, to be frankly honest, unless you're a professional esports gamer.

Resolution/fidelity > Framerate/hertz

Normally, I don't care either. Because, I'm mostly a filthy console casual. But, did you watch the video? There's no doubt it makes a difference even in a casual setting.

 

[Hulk_Smash]

I wonder if this is really only for keyboard and mouse players though. Can you tell the difference at 120Hz with a gamepad which is naturally slower for moving the camera?

My guess would be it still makes a difference, but at rates obviously proportionately lower than on a gamepad.

Now that I'm thinking about it, I wonder if it's higher refresh rate/FPS that crossplay console players should really be concerned about- not M&KB.

 

[GymWolf]

Shroud got embarrassed big time.

where? in that video?

 

[Hulk_Smash]

where?

In the video at the beginning. He missed way more than the others. But, in his defense, he did talk about being past his prime. He knows he's getting smoked and like always, takes it in stride.

 

[Hulk_Smash]

I think we're very likely to "gaming TVs" next gen that run at 120Hz. More likely that than 8K become mainstream.

Think Sony and MS will push devs to support it though (through higher FPS)? I mean, it's nice for the PC couch gamers like myself, but the real breakthrough would be if it landed on consoles.

 

[GymWolf]

In the video at the beginning. He missed way more than the others. But, in his defense, he did talk about being past his prime. He knows he's getting smoked and like always, takes it in stride.

really? he is getting smoked? by who?
i don't follow these people but i thought punchable face shroud was still at the top of the food chain.

 

[Hulk_Smash]

really? he is getting smoked? by who?
i don't follow these people but i thought punchable face shroud was still at the top of the food chain.

How bout watch the video.

 

[Hendrick's]

really? he is getting smoked? by who?
i don't follow these people but i thought punchable face shroud was still at the top of the food chain.

He looked really lame in this video.

 

[Goliathy]

I think they will, but will be slow to implement because the TV's out there most do 120hz via interpolation.

You need a hdmi 2.1 tv for 120fps@4k

 

[CJY]

Think Sony and MS will push devs to support it though (through higher FPS)? I mean, it's nice for the PC couch gamers like myself, but the real breakthrough would be if it landed on consoles.

They'll push it, but most games will still target 60fps. I think TV producers need something to sell and 8K is gonna be a real hard sell in a recession economy. "gaming TV" will be just a gimmick like 3D, but if they support VRR and 120Hz, it's a gimmick I'd get behind.

 

[Hulk_Smash]

You need a hdmi 2.1 tv for 120fps@4k

I forgot about the HDMI "bottleneck". Yeah, that's going to be even harder to sell until cord manufacturers force the upgrade. How standard is 2.1 now?

 

[MeatSafeMurderer]

Highest refresh rate I've experienced is 84Hz...and 60Hz just doesn't compare. I didn't take people *that* seriously when they said that 60Hz doesn't look or feel smooth to them anymore...but they were 100% right. It's like night and day and once you've seen it it's hard to go back.

 

[BusierDonkey]

Higher frames are better, but you dont 'need' more than 60fps. Its not like saying 30fps is more than enough. 30fps can cause problems, while not looking great, but 60fps is more than enough for me.
I think the confusement starts because 60fps looks so good on a 60htz tv, but 60fps can look a little framey on high refresh monitors. I think thats why people pull out the 'stupid PC master race' card when some PC users moan about 60fps, but 60fps on a 60htz tv is great and i'd prefer that over reduced graphics and 100+fps.

I'm running a 40" 4K 60Hz Philips BDM4065UC/27 panel I got back in early 2016.
My friend runs an ultrawide 160Hz OC'ed monitor and I often consider replacing mine with a similar monitor. I love the real estate but the difference between 60 and 160 is really hard not to notice.

 

[DGrayson]

Hz and framerate all day. I woudl much rather play a FPS (even single player) or even a side scroller with fast reactions at 144+hz and 1080p than 4K 60 hz.

If I am playing a very slow paced game then ya its ok. But framerate makes such a huge difference in how a game feels.

 

[Skyr]

Playing with a gamepad on a console 60fps feels great to me. More would be nice to have but isn't necassary with that input method.

It's on PC with mouselook where 60fps feels like utter garbarge and a minimum of 100-120 fps is required to not only look but feel good.

 

[Goliathy]

I forgot about the HDMI "bottleneck". Yeah, that's going to be even harder to sell until cord manufacturers force the upgrade. How standard is 2.1 now?

Maybe 0.01% if all TVs used by customers are hdmi 2.1 lol

 

[Musky_Cheese]

Consoles for me is for exclusives only. Playing at 1440p max at over 100 FPS is a much more enjoyable experience than 4K (native or upscale) at medium at 30 or even 60 FPS.

It seems unrealistic to think Microsoft or Sony priorities would go from 4K 30 FPS to 4K 120 FPS in first party. 3rd party the same imo.

 

[Mista]

People won’t understand and appreciate 60+ fps until they try it.

Hitting 120fps easily on my pc and whenever I go back to consoles I get a headache. Hopefully next-gen will at least give me locked 60fps

 

[Senua]

Framerate is king.

 

[Wonko_C]

60 FPS is enough for me.

Never understood the obsession with 90+FPS, to be frankly honest, unless you're a professional esports gamer.

Resolution/fidelity > Framerate/hertz

VR needs 90fps and higher, though. It can get away with less (Oculus Quest at 72hz) but the difference becomes more dramatic than on a monitor.

 

[Soleil rouge]

Games like Rocket League and FPS's on a buttery smooth 240 hz monitor are damn near orgasmic to play.

To me, it's not just about having a competitive edge. It makes all games far more enjoyable.

 

[Flintty]

I’ve never experienced anything above 60fps. Been looking at 240hz monitors over the past few days, so this video is timely.

 

[MightySquirrel]

People won’t understand and appreciate 60+ fps until they try it.

Hitting 120fps easily on my pc and whenever I go back to consoles I get a headache. Hopefully next-gen will at least give me locked 60fps

Yeah it's strange to PC users how console gamers don't understand why we are so excited about more and more exclusives coming to pc.

 

[Blond]

Who the fuck cares about what console players think. You can have the best equipment in the world and still suck ass as a player; just look at all the people using keyboard and mouse on COD:MW on console and still having shit K/D ratios.

 

[Skyr]

I’ve never experienced anything above 60fps. Been looking at 240hz monitors over the past few days, so this video is timely.

You play Apex right? I can tell you already you mind will be blown and after one day when you will go back to 60 to compare you will ask yourself how the hell you were able to play like that all the time.

 

[Great Hair]

Those who brag about 120, 144 or 240fps ... exclusively play the same type of genre for decades. A pal of mine from the uni. most likely still plays counter strike exclusively ...

20 YEARS OF FOKING "Go to A, go to B!" ... there are "zombies" people out there, who just play competitive games or just the one over and over again. They will never play anything else, they don´t care about consoles, they only care about sharing pictures of their : 360º no-scope-wall-backflip-headshots" --- WAAAH zo kwel! Mario 64 at 144fps aint better, Zelda BOTW 2020 at 144fps wont be better ... so i have to ask :

WHY CANT YOU ACCEPT IT, THAT WE DONT GIVE A WET FART ABOUT 144hz?

all about fartnigh, pggb?, pc sim-crap-wannabe-rich-via-streaming-BS-please-consider-subscribe-hit-the-bell-head-over-to-patron-donate ... all LAZY CUNTS in my book. streamer and thots of instagram have a lot in common. They just use a different platform.

Wanna know why Guild Wars 2 and MP games sucks? You can jump. Ever since we´re able to jump in the Z-axis gaming went downhill. Now everyone jumps like dumb-fuck bunny with huge vibrator up their arse trying to elude, mess up with da hitbox system.

no idea why the first two words are hidden*


Im being facetious ... to some extent.

Spoiler

 

[Flintty]

You play Apex right? I can tell you already you mind will be blown and after one day when you will go back to 60 to compare you will ask yourself how the hell you were able to play like that all the time.

I do but mostly on Xbox atm because I sucked at it on PC. I wouldn’t expect higher frame rate to make much difference to that but I’d still like to experience it!

 

[EverydayBeast]

Modern Warfare is the best Call of Duty ever.

 

[Jigsaah]

I've play 144 fps on PC. I never thought 60 fps could seem slow til then.

 

[Alexios]

Devs? Huh? If playing on console then the framerate is equal for everyone and therefor everyone has the same handicap and has to improve his skill and tactics outside that to be better. What matters in that scenario is to be better than everyone else, not to be better than a hypothetical version of yourself that would play on the hypothetical non existent higher framerate version of that game. But not everyone plays for PVP either. I just want stuff to look smooth and play nice without feeling laggy because of the framerate not to maximize my own performance by whatever tiny margin, just for shit to look and feel right, so, 60-90 is what I usually aim for on my 144hz vrr monitor and adjust settings accordingly. If I have a lot of headroom then max everything for 90, if I have to reduce settings then I keep 60 as my goal, for VR I keep 90 as the goal at all times, etc.

 

[fersnake]

I've play 144 fps on PC. I never thought 60 fps could seem slow til then.

word, i finally got my 144hz monitor an man what a difference. ppl can say they dont see diffence well need to get their eyes checked

 

[Senua]

Those who brag about 120, 144 or 240fps ... exclusively play the same type of genre for decades. A pal of mine from the uni. most likely still plays counter strike exclusively ...

20 YEARS OF FOKING "Go to A, go to B!" ... there are "zombies" people out there, who just play competitive games or just the one over and over again. They will never play anything else, they don´t care about consoles, they only care about sharing pictures of their : 360º no-scope-wall-backflip-headshots" --- WAAAH zo kwel! Mario 64 at 144fps aint better, Zelda BOTW 2020 at 144fps wont be better ... so i have to ask :

WHY CANT YOU ACCEPT IT, THAT WE DONT GIVE A WET FART ABOUT 144hz?

all about fartnigh, pggb?, pc sim-crap-wannabe-rich-via-streaming-BS-please-consider-subscribe-hit-the-bell-head-over-to-patron-donate ... all LAZY CUNTS in my book. streamer and thots of instagram have a lot in common. They just use a different platform.

Wanna know why Guild Wars 2 and MP games sucks? You can jump. Ever since we´re able to jump in the Z-axis gaming went downhill. Now everyone jumps like dumb-fuck bunny with huge vibrator up their arse trying to elude, mess up with da hitbox system.

no idea why the first two words are hidden*


Im being facetious ... to some extent.

Spoiler

What in the butt-fuck.

 

[Elektro Demon]

Locked 60fps at 60hz is enough for me.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

So, I recently upgraded from a 3440x1440 ultrawide 60hz LG monitor to a 2560x1440 144hz Viewsonic Elite xg270QG Gsync monitor...

I have to say, hands down, the framerate diff and ESPECIALLY the Gsync has got to be the best upgrade I've ever made. It's easily made more of a noticeable difference than anything else other than going from an r9 290 to a gtx 1080. But I'd still give the monitor the edge believe it or not due to the Variable Overdrive and the Gsync range from 30 all the way up to 165hz keeping things buttery smooth and as blur, stutter and tear free as possible. It's literally better than I thought it would be.

This has greatly extended the life of my GPU as far as I'm concerned. I can now crank up the settings more in open world games like TW3 and now hove a much smoother and visually pleasing experience, literally just because of the monitor.

Also, to put it into perspective, with 144hz you have up to 2.4 times more information visually available to you on the screen every second than when at 60hz. This makes for a much smoother viewing experience and enhances the feeling of connection or responsiveness between you and the game when you are inputting commands. Everything just seems more instant.

However, not all screens are equal. Just because something has high refresh rates doesn't mean you are getting all the things you want out of a great display. If you want less blur or ghosting you are going to want a monitor or tv with low pixel response times. Good color? Panel type and color gamut range will effect this. Input lag, stuttering, tearing? Freesync or Gsync... etc. etc.

 

[Senua]

Locked 60fps at 60hz is enough for me.

720p good enough for you too?

 

[Elektro Demon]

720p good enough for you too?

No, but I don't have anything against 1080p. 1080p is enough.
But I play on 4k most of the time. But in reality, I see no difference between 1080p and 4k. Maybe only in sharpness and antialiasing.

 

[Senua]

No, but I don't have anything against 1080p. 1080p is enough.
But I play on 4k most of the time. But in reality, I see no difference between 1080p and 4k. Maybe only in sharpness and antialiasing.

God damn dude, you got some shit ass eyes!