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[Hostile_18]

Because you are never going to please everyone no matter what you do. Where do you draw the line? Game's too hard, make it easier for me. Know what, this game could do with more tanks, put tanks in it. There aren't any eskimos in this game, put some in.

No, you leave the developer alone to make their game in the way that they want. It's their game and you don't have to buy it. This isn't the participation Olympics.

Am I mistaken, or did you start this thread before? I'm getting deja vu.

We talked about difficulty in the Sekiro thread but I wanted to open it up to talk about it in general terms and amongst all game players (rather than just Souls fans etc)

 

[mortal]

No

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

We talked about difficulty in the Sekiro thread but I wanted to open it up to talk about it in general terms and amongst all game players (rather than just Souls fans etc)

Well, being a Souls fan doesn't necessarily mean you're skilled. I'm a Souls fan but I'm far from being skilled. I bought Hotline Miami after seeing the rave reviews. Turns out I'm total garbage at that game. I accepted it and moved on.

 

[GHG]

Implementing an easy mode dosnt need to require infinite time or money... I suspect deep down you know that and are reaching to justify blocking certain less skilled players playing "your" game.

I don't create the games. There have been plenty of times when I've hit a difficulty wall in games that I can't overcome or when I've backed myself into a corner by building a character wrong in an RPG game. I wont moan to the internet or developers about it, I'll just move on an do something more suitable with my time and maybe return at a later date with a fresh mindset when I'm in the mood for a challenge.

The time and money comment is in reference to the fact that development teams have deadlines and they have a budget. Adding things like "easy mode" might not fit. Sometimes developers have no intention of adding an "easy mode" so will therefore utilise all of the existing time and budget across other things in the project roadmap.

 

[checkcola]

Why not take all the adult themes out of Game of Thrones and make it more in line with A Kid in King Arthur's Court? Then it'd have been an HBO show that the entire family could have watch. Oh wait, then it'd have not been Game of Thrones. It'd have been a Disney afternoon fantasy kids show. So, my stand is the trend to homogenize things is dangerous. Artistic expression matters.

Accessibility exists already anyway. I got a XBox One S awhile back for the heck of it, looking around the store to add a few games on it, and there's countless games of all sorts of genres that have all sorts of difficulty modes. Great things exist that anyone can play.

Also, go back and play old NES games. Many times you didn't even know what you were getting into at that time with them. I got Back to the Future for Christmas and I just had to make due. LOL We have more more information of a games difficulty in today's world as well as access to strategies to overcome challenges via FAQS or Youtube or game wikis.

 

[Radical Dreamer]

No.

I have no interest in Souls games, but this deal that comes up from time to time to try to get them to abandon their selling point seems foolish. If I buy a Metroid game, I know there's going to be backtacking, if I buy a Mario game, platforming, on and on. If a Souls game is not challenging, then it is no longer a Souls game. It would then be something different.

Nintendo has easy modes on Mario Kart for example because those game appeal to all ages.

Not everything needs to be made for everyone. If everything becomes the same, then all we need is one game, which I guess would be Pong.

Couldn't agree more. And honestly, how would you make an easy mode in Souls games anyway? Make enemies take more damage? Make them perform less attacks? dafuq

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

No.

Couldn't agree more. And honestly, how would you make an easy mode in Souls games anyway? Make enemies take more damage? Make them perform less attacks? dafuq

Exactly. How would you make The Tomb of the Giants easier? Add a light switch?

 

[Hostile_18]

Why not take all the adult themes out of Game of Thrones and make it more in line with A Kid in King Arthur's Court? Then it'd have been an HBO show that the entire family could have watch. Oh wait, then it'd have not been Game of Thrones. It'd have been a Disney afternoon fantasy kids show. So, my stand is the trend to homogenize things is dangerous. Artistic expression matters.

Accessibility exists already anyway. I got a XBox One S awhile back for the heck of it, looking around the store to add a few games on it, and there's countless games of all sorts of genres that have all sorts of difficulty modes. Great things exist that anyone can play.

Also, go back and play old NES games. Many times you didn't even know what you were getting into at that time with them. I got Back to the Future for Christmas and I just had to make due. LOL We have more more information of a games difficulty in today's world as well as access to strategies to overcome challenges via FAQS or Youtube or game wikis.

Were not talking about changing the content (i.e taking out the violence). Press play on game of thrones and you can see it all as long as you have an interest in doing so. That's what I want for less skilled gamers.

They might have a slightly less experience but it's still allowing them to have the experience.

 

[spartan30gr]

Hell noo!!

 

[GHG]

Were not talking about changing the content (i.e taking out the violence). Press play on game of thrones and you can see it all as long as you have an interest in doing so. That's what I want for less skilled gamers.

They might have a slightly less experience but it's still allowing them to have the experience.

Videogames are different to any other entertainment medium out there. They are not consumed passively, they are input driven experiences.

If that's the point we are getting to then I'd actually argue that the best solution for that person would be to watch let's plays.

 

[checkcola]

Were not talking about changing the content (i.e taking out the violence). Press play on game of thrones and you can see it all as long as you have an interest in doing so. That's what I want for less skilled gamers.

They might have a slightly less experience but it's still allowing them to have the experience.

That's where we disagree. Game Design/level of challenge is content in my book.

Here's another example. What about puzzle games? What if you are not good at brain teasers? Dumb down the puzzles?

One other example, I'm a horrible speller, the concept of Wheel of Fortune, I'd not do well at.

 

[drganon]

I voted no, but ironically i play almost everything on easy/casual. It should be up to the developer what they want to do with their game. That being said, I avoid games like dark souls like the plague. My life is frustrating enough as is.

 

[Gormless Noodle]

Fuck no. Often when people talk about difficulty they tend to target the Fromsoft games and a lot of what makes those games more challenging (not even really hard once you get them) is level design and enemy placement. You can't lower the difficulty on these games without changing them from the ground up. But In general, is it really that fucking hard to let us have our one or two games a year (IF EVEN THAT) that not every single room temperature IQlet can play?

 

[EverydayBeast]

Depends, gaming benefits from having different levels of difficult some games like Zelda or Mario benefit from not having difficulty modes.

 

[Garret Bobby Ferguson]

Absolutely not. Im not good at or even care for souls games or stuff like that but the developer should develop the game how they want. Most easy modes and hard modes on games are literally just damage done/received modifiers with no AI change or anything.
For story games I do think they should implement easy mode but in no way should it be mandatory. I usually play on whatever mode I feel the developers really wanted to game to be played at. That's much easier when there's only 1 mode.

 

[Hostile_18]

Honestly can't help but feel it's a little disappointed some people want games "just for them". No one is taking away your standard/hard modes.

Even if you can't place yourselves in someone else's shoes look at it this way from personal gain perspective.. the more people that can play your game the more money the developers get, the more likely your favorite franchise will continue.

No one is saying alter the developers vision, just there should be an additional mode (that takes very little resources i.e health tweaks) that allowes less skilled/abled gamers to play at a level that's comfortable/challenging to them but not impossibly so.

I think despite the growth of the medium, which now includes more and more types of people, maturity wise we still have a long way to go, unfortunately.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

Honestly can't help but feel it's a little disappointed some people want games "just for them". No one is taking away your standard/hard modes.

Even if you can't place yourselves in someone else's shoes look at it this way from personal gain perspective.. the more people that can play your game the more money the developers get, the more likely your favorite franchise will continue.

No one is saying alter the developers vision, just there should be an additional mode (that takes very little resources i.e health tweaks) that allowes less skilled/abled gamers to play at a level that's comfortable/challenging to them but not impossibly so.

I think despite the growth of the medium, which now includes more and more types of people, maturity wise we still have a long way to go, unfortunately.

You say that, but it's simply not true in all cases.

And it strikes me as incredibly selfish to demand that every developer has to cater to you.

 

[Hostile_18]

You say that, but it's simply not true in all cases.

And it strikes me as incredibly selfish to demand that every developer has to cater to you.

It's not to me, I play most games on hard. Completed all the Naughty Dog games on crushing/grounded etc.

I want developers to make small tweaks to cater to everybody who wishes to play their game no matter their ability. I'm not asking they substantially alter their games in terms in terms of content.

I just find it so at odds that letting someone else play a game at an easier difficulty than what I play at would ever be a bad thing.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

It's not to me, I play most games on hard. Completed all the Naughty Dog games on crushing/grounded etc.

I want developers to make small tweaks to cater to everybody who wishes to play their game no matter their ability. I'm not asking they substantially alter their games in terms in terms of content.

I just find it so at odds that letting someone else play a game at an easier difficulty than what I play at would ever be a bad thing.

The point is, though, you can't apply simple tweaks to all games to make them easier. You would have to fundamentally change the content of the game, in a lot of cases. Which is why the discussion is moot and why it will never happen.

 

[Birdo]

People who voted "No":

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

I play games with difficulty settings on medium. I don't have a sword, either. Though I'd quite like that one.

 

[Hostile_18]

The point is, though, you can't apply simple tweaks to all games to make them easier. You would have to fundamentally change the content of the game, in a lot of cases. Which is why the discussion is moot and why it will never happen.

That's where we disagree. I'm talking more about file tweaks or hint systems if it was a puzzle game etc. Obviously they will need to be play tested but as a percentage of the workload of a whole game it would be less than 1%.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

That's where we disagree. I'm talking more about file tweaks or hint systems if it was a puzzle game etc. Obviously they will need to be play tested but as a percentage of the workload of a whole game it would be less than 1%.

I have no idea how you could make something like Dark Souls easier without completely changing the game. Do you make Blightown no longer poisonous? Do you illuminate the Tomb of the Giants? Do you take enemies out? It never ends. And that is just one game.

 

[Zekra Dezivad]

Well games are already super easy in general, the "hard" mode is basically what was the normal mode years ago. I was scared to play a game on hard without having any experience with it, now it's often a necessity if I want some challenge.

 

[Ellery]

No. It only works for game where damage/hp (and some other factors like fewer health items/ammunition) scaling would work. For games that are designed around other elements would 1) require too much work from the developers to implement properly, 2) destroy the essence of the game.

It would be a terrible idea to have it for all games. The way it is right now is okay, but games are laughably easy anyways and offering even easier times would actually pave the way to an idiocratic gaming future where you consume games like a mindless brainlet in the same vein of reality TV.
The exact opposite should happen where games are harder and games like Soulsborne are more common so gamers get better, game designers get better, game reviewers get better and we have a more meaningful and fullfilling gaming experience in years to come where you feel rewarded for overcoming challenges instead of having your hand held with a big arrow guiding you through it where combat is replaced with microtransactions and lootboxes.

(I am a bit overdramatizing here and I mean no direct offense by it. In reality the difficulty of the gaming landscape is mostly okay right now, but less than 1% of all games coming out are actually somewhat challenging and those games that are usually don't rely on meaningful story or characters which wouldn't be worth exploring on easier difficulties. People who desire easier FROM Software games have no idea how much damage the mind parasite of that thought could do)

It kind of is like voting with your wallet. If Nvidia releases a graphics card for 1200$ and people buy it then be sure you won't get the next flagship card for 500$ ever again. If you pay for microtransactions in games then be sure that the next game will cut content and offer it as seperate microtransaction instead of giving it all to you. If you pay EA for booster packs in Sport games so you can play online then you will need to do that next year aswell when the new Sport game releases with basically identical gameplay but slightly different values for the players.
This can go on and on and be projected on gaming difficulty and game design. Be happy that games are sometimes hard, be happy that games don't offer difficulties and are decently challenging. Be happy that the real droolers are currently on mobile games.

My post may be harsh, but it really is a good idea to get out of your comfort zone, slay monsters and bath in the glory of your victory instead of hoping for developers to hold your hand inside your own comfort zone and cuddle you with a warm blanket.

 

[Fake]

No.

Let developers do what they want.

Buy things that are suited to your tastes/skill levels.

Don't moan.

Finito.

This. Always up to devs.
When devs stop trying to do what they want we gonna start to see a degradetion on game quality.

It doesn't matter because the developers created the game they wanted in order to drive an experience in the way they intended to. It found it's audience, it sold well and the vast majority of people are happy. I'm sure there will be people who didn't like the game or found the game difficult for whatever reason but that's normal - as already stated so many times throughout the thread, you cannot please everyone.

The people who didn't like it or couldn't play it are not held hostage, they can refund the game, they can play something else.

Damn. Two times at row.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

Even if you did shoehorn an easy mode into something like Dark Souls, somehow, what about the person who still finds it too difficult? Every game should have a VERY easy mode then? A VERY VERY easy mode? What about poor Timmy No Thumbs?

We need a mode for him where if you can manage to press 'start' you've beaten the game.

 

[sublimit]

I hope not.

Games with only one difficulty option will (almost) always have more balanced and more tight gameplay/level design that reflects the game's director true vision than games with multiple difficulty options IMO.

I'm not saying that games with multiple difficulty options can't be enjoyable but for me games with a pre-set difficulty will always have an advantage.

 

[Ellery]

Even if you did shoehorn an easy mode into something like Dark Souls, somehow, what about the person who still finds it too difficult? Every game should have a VERY easy mode then? A VERY VERY easy mode? What about poor Timmy No Thumbs?

We need a mode for him where if you can manage to press 'start' you've beaten the game.

Yeah the cycle would continue and eventually games would be "on rails" where you sit back and watch it like TV and they carefully explain the story to you like they are teaching the alphabet to elementary school kids.

 

[BigBooper]

I don't think so. I've been playing some Dark Souls recently. I've started it multiple times and it's not the difficulty of the enemies that turns me off. The confusing map design, combined with the repetitive gameplay gets to me eventually every time. I don't think that game would be any better by having all the enemies be a cakewalk. It would simply be to boring to slowly roll through that depressing world if there were no risk. I don't think we should promote the "walking simulator" gameplay style any more than has already been.

Not having different difficulties makes it easier to balance the gameplay around more interesting mechanics.

 

[diffusionx]

I think people vastly underestimate what it takes to make these modes and make them fun at all difficulty levels. You’re basically redesigning the game top to bottom multiple times. Which is why hard mode in so many games is so bad. There’s just not enough time to do it properly.

For example, God of War’s hard mode is just completely awful. I refuse to believe that a studio fulled of such skilled people thought “just make all the enemies damage sponges lmao” was acceptable. I would much rather have had no difficulty levels and a slightly harder normal mode. Jedi Fallen Order’s difficulty modes aren’t all that great either.

If people think everything should have a game journalist mode where there is no challenge and the game basically plays itself... can we just get a revival of GameShark/Game Genie or something? There’s a reason those things were popular.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

Why not? It hurts no one. For those of us with a limited schedule to play games an easy mode to experience the story is a godsend.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

Why not? It hurts no one. For those of us with a limited schedule to play games an easy mode to experience the story is a godsend.

If all you're worried about is the story watch a play through on youtube.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

If all you're worried about is the story watch a play through on youtube.

Kinda takes the whole interactivity portion out of it wouldn't you say? An easy mode isn't auto play

 

[Hostile_18]

If all you're worried about is the story watch a play through on youtube.

If all your worried about is challenge try holding one hand behind your back

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

Kinda takes the whole interactivity portion out of it wouldn't you say? An easy mode isn't auto play

You said it would allow you to experience the story. I merely presented you with an even more efficient option to do so.

You also said adding this mode would hurt no one, which is clearly not the case and has been covered extensively in this thread.

 

[FranXico]

Depends on how each game is designed. Don't go to developers and try to demand or forbid easy modes.

FFS

 

[OmegaSupreme]

You said it would allow you to experience the story. I merely presented you with an even more efficient option to do so.

You also adding this mode would hurt no one, which is clearly not the case and has been covered extensively in this thread.

I like games for interactivity. If I want to experience a truly good story and sit on my hands I'll watch a movie or tv show. I fundamentally disagree that it hurts anyone to have an easy mode. Care to elaborate on how you or anyone else would be hurt?

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

I like games for interactivity. If I want to experience a truly good story and sit on my hands I'll watch a movie or tv show. I fundamentally disagree that it hurts anyone to have an easy mode. Care to elaborate on how you or anyone else would be hurt?

Please read the thread. It would certainly hurt the developer to have to try and shoehorn an easy mode into every game.

 

[wintersouls]

NO.

Not all games are for all audiences and its creator decides that part of the gameplay of its game is the difficulty and its learning, it must be awakened. For example, the Miyazaki games or the latest Nioh 2.

 

[Hostile_18]

Depends on how each game is designed. Don't go to developers and try to demand or forbid easy modes.

FFS

I think it should be something that is demanded in games primarily designed around a tough challenge IMO. It would be the lesser way to play absolutely but let's not gatekeep a game someone lesser skilled than use really wants to play/enjoy.

Just my opinion on the subject, not an absolute

 

[Digity]

Not everything is meant for everyone, simple.

 

[BadBurger]

Yes. And I think of all the big devs Blizzard was the first to figure this out with their dungeon queues and raid tiers. Many people just want to enjoy a game for an hour or two and go to bed. Not face some stupidly difficult experience and get frustrated.

 

[Slings and Arrows]

When every game is a movie, they're all easy mode!

 

[anthraticus]

Fuck off with that popamole shit.

 

[Hostile_18]

Not everything is meant for everyone, simple.

But having selectable difficulty modes it can be and surely that's a better goal.

At the very least purchases can be made purely based on the content on offer rather than the accessibility.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

Please read the thread. It would certainly hurt the developer to have to try and shoehorn an easy mode into every game.

I have and fail to see any developers commenting on how it would "hurt them" perhaps you could explain it?

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

I have and fail to see any developers commenting on how it would "hurt them" perhaps you could explain it?

I already have. Perhaps you believe having to fundamentally change the content of a game to cater to all is a breeze. We'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

I already have. Perhaps you believe having to fundamentally change the content of a game to cater to all is a breeze. We'll have to agree to disagree.

Not seeing where you have to fundamentally change the content of a game? Simply give the player more life or extra lives isn't changing the content of the game. It's giving them more chances. Let's not forget we are talking about the option for an easy mode. Not something the game has to be designed around.

 

[RedVIper]

Were not talking about changing the content (i.e taking out the violence). Press play on game of thrones and you can see it all as long as you have an interest in doing so. That's what I want for less skilled gamers.

They might have a slightly less experience but it's still allowing them to have the experience.

If that's what you want for less skilled gamers then you'll be glad to learn about this thing called youtube, they can go and watch a playtrough of whatever game they want.