Support NeoGAF

[crowbrow]

This is the kind of reason I hate "Progressive" government.

This is hardly a problem exclusive of a progressive government. Look at Bolsonaro in Brazil. He's about to get sacked by his own military cause the dude is in full denial mode and claiming people should die to protect the economy. Retarded reactions come in all ideological colors.

 

[M1chl]

OMG our Dutch CDC now admits their models are not being reached but their worst case scenarios are ... good work people .. it’s not rocket science! Like I shouted weeks ago! Lock down ! And your herd immunity experiment failed, just like I predicted..

They should give me their job.. good thing I tweeted our PM my plan weeks ago (true story)

Now you ffed us.

Imagine the bribes.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Let's pretend China, South Korea, Japan do not exist, shall we.

Wait, why? China and South Korea are taking draconian measures to track and quarantine their infected populations. South Korea also has a relatively small population and land mass that allows them to be more effective with these surveillance and containment measures. I also don't believe much at all coming out of China, so there's that.

Japan is, sadly, now starting to see its numbers increase. Probably as a result of people getting bored with nearly two months of voluntary event cancellations and stay-home measures. Earlier this month you saw tons of crowds doing Hanami (cherry blossom viewings/picnics) and that K-1 event drawing thousands of people into a packed arena. I think we're just now starting to see some acceleration occur in Japan as a result of people easing up on the social distancing.

 

[12Goblins]

Is this real life

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Uh, is there? Are we at the point when we doubt number of deaths/people in critical condition in non-commie world?

At the moment, there does appear to be reason to be skeptical about the death numbers coming from Spain and Italy, as both appear to be having their all-cause mortality numbers added to their "death by Coronavirus" numbers.

edit: the above is wrong info based on my misinterpretation of a graph.

Is this real life

Yes. Where have you been?

 

[GHG]

OMG our Dutch CDC now admits their models are not being reached but their worst case scenarios are ... good work people .. it’s not rocket science! Like I shouted weeks ago! Lock down ! And your herd immunity experiment failed, just like I predicted..

They should give me their job.. good thing I tweeted our PM my plan weeks ago (true story)

Now you ffed us.

Seriously.

This is what the EU were saying two weeks ago:

EU Executive Warns Against Border Closures as Way to Curb Coronavirus

European Union countries must take care not to damage food and medicine supply lines as they slap on border restrictions in the drive to curb the spread of coronavirus, the EU's executive arm said on Monday.

www.nytimes.com

So woke, so noble, so brave.

 

[cryptoadam]

South Korea had their first confirmed case on the same day as the USA. They immediately started testing on a massive scale, within a week, and have largely contained the issue. All these weeks later, the USA hasn't tested anywhere near enough, and you could argue there isn't as much necessity now - it is beyond irresponsible to go into a battle with a disease, if you don't pinpoint where it is.

The US has done more test than SK. SK has only done like 350K tests. Sure they have a smaller population and if the CDC test kits weren't borked maybe the US could of been a big quicker.

The big difference is SK can contact trace and track people via their cell phones.

If you started testing in NYC a month ago, how you gonna catch everyone without contract tracing? You don't have peoples cell data to know they rode the train to West Broadway and then ate at McDonalds before heading to time square where they bought a pack of smokes in a bodega.

Earlier testing probably would of helped with modeling and maybe put a bigger emphasis on lockdowns earlier, but I don't think it would of stopped much. Germany tested a lot too and they haven't stopped the spread they are a top 5 country and will eventually surpass a few of the other big players as their cases wind down.

The problem is no one believed that this could become an actual outbreak movie. SARS/MERS/EBOLA never became like this. And China downplayed the whole thing. Even when in lockdown they still were hiding so much of the details of what was actually going on.

No one would of got tested, listened to lockdowns, closed their business's etc without seeing Italy. If it wasn't for Italy everyone would think its just some Asian flu and CCP is just using this as an excuse to crack down on human rights like they always do.

 

[oatmeal]

And this is how the rich and powerful will control the pleebs from knowing about a cure.

I am guessing the issue here is that since Trump talked about HQ now any one talking about the studies and clinical trials of it should be blocked from twitter. Whats worse than the Corona virus? Trump touting a cure for it and being correct. ORANGE MAN BAD guys. ORANGE MAN BAD!

It's also a branding issue.

They called it the TRUMP CURE to make him look bad.

EDIT: If it works, they look worse.

 

[DeepEnigma]

It's also a branding issue.

They called it the TRUMP CURE to make him look bad.

EDIT: If it works, they look worse.

The media is atrocious. Morally bankrupt.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

The US has done more test than SK. SK has only done like 350K tests. Sure they have a smaller population and if the CDC test kits weren't borked maybe the US could of been a big quicker.

The big difference is SK can contact trace and track people via their cell phones.

If you started testing in NYC a month ago, how you gonna catch everyone without contract tracing? You don't have peoples cell data to know they rode the train to West Broadway and then ate at McDonalds before heading to time square where they bought a pack of smokes in a bodega.

Earlier testing probably would of helped with modeling and maybe put a bigger emphasis on lockdowns earlier, but I don't think it would of stopped much. Germany tested a lot too and they haven't stopped the spread they are a top 5 country and will eventually surpass a few of the other big players as their cases wind down.

The problem is no one believed that this could become an actual outbreak movie. SARS/MERS/EBOLA never became like this. And China downplayed the whole thing. Even when in lockdown they still were hiding so much of the details of what was actually going on.

No one would of got tested, listened to lockdowns, closed their business's etc without seeing Italy. If it wasn't for Italy everyone would think its just some Asian flu and CCP is just using this as an excuse to crack down on human rights like they always do.

100% this. No one would have accepted lockdowns in the west at the beginning of this month. Not even three weeks ago. It would have been political suicide to even suggest them.

 

[cryptoadam]

Yeah, we had 3 days last week where Italy's #'s dropped but went right back up. It's nice to see the #'s going down but we need to see this over a span of 5-7 days for it to be a trend in the right direction.

Yup I remember that. Remember when they had like 3500 or so cases a few days in a row and it looked like things peaked and now we are celebrating 5200 cases!

Also I read that Lomardy is dropping but some of the other places are going up. I don't have a region breakdown but if Italy trades the northern problem for one in the south then its not a big win in the end.

But fingers crossed that Italy has turned the corner. 500-1000 dead a day is too much for any one country.

 

[Loki]

South Korea had their first confirmed case on the same day as the USA. They immediately started testing on a massive scale, within a week, and have largely contained the issue. All these weeks later, the USA hasn't tested anywhere near enough, and you could argue there isn't as much necessity now - it is beyond irresponsible to go into a battle with a disease, if you don't pinpoint where it is.

Thanks. I was under the impression that South Korea's first case was 1-2 weeks before the first US confirmed case (which was in Cali, I believe).

 

[betrayal]

Haha I think you got me all wrong, go back and read any of the other posts I've made in here, I'm not guided by my emotions and most definitely not by the "money hungry sensationalist media". I've been a proponent for lockdowns and their efficacy from the beginning. I havent been speaking about this situation hyperbolically or fear mongering. I am not sceptical about good news.

I understand the need to trot out your schtick continuously in this thread and honestly for the most part your posts are a nice change compared to the typical doom and gloom, but your response to what I was talking about is misguided.

It was an example. The numbers in my example arent real. It was an example to illustrate that the amount of variables are so high that the numbers almost reach a point of worthlessness. As with the example @Zefah pointed out, if one would look at the worlds numbers of positive cases they would be like "damn, Japan has barely any infections!". But is it because of the measures they've put in place or is it because they are simply not testing nearly as much?

In order for all these infection rate numbers to resemble any sort of across the board legitimacy there would have to be some sort of standardization happening. Every day each country tests 25,000 people, then we compare numbers or something like that. And even then there are so many variables involved (maybe one country mainly tested large urban areas vs another country that tested more rural areas) that can skew the numbers.

The whole point I'm trying to make is when people are posting these giant scoreboards showing one country higher on the list than another country, it is kinda silly. Those scoreboards have a tenuous tangibility at best. If anything they should be used to gauge what's happening within a country, not seeing how they stack up against another country.

As a footnote, I'm assuming it must be tiring but keep up the "outside the box" style of discussing the situations happening cause it is refreshing to see a different point of view. It is really easy to be caught in the mire of doom and gloom.

Okay, then I misunderstood or misjudged you. But I see no reason why the numbers in Italy shouldn't be trusted. If anything, there is more testing going on right now than a week or two ago. That plus the fact that the lockdown has been in place for almost three weeks indicates that the development of the numbers does indeed reflect the current situation (peak).

For the other things (Japan and country comparisons) I agree. For Japan, you have to wait and see what happens there and any country comparisons are really pointless, because there are actually an enormous number of variables that you can't always compare with each other. The exception in this case, however, is in my opinion always a lockdown. If this is strictly enforced, it has the same effect in all countries, whether densely populated or rural, rich or poor, etc.. That's why every single country has a real chance in fighting the virus. That is why every country has a real chance of fighting the virus if the measures are introduced at the right time and with the right severity. The consequences for the economy or many personal fates are, unfortunately, a different story.

Im in Montreal QC. We are the epicenter of Canada. We have more cases in our city than any Province (5 more than Ontario WINNING). about 2 weeks ago we had less cases than BC/Onatrio/Alberta and have surged right past them. I am living in the epicenter of the Canadian outbreak. I am basically living in the Lombardy of Canada unless things get better.

Today the province and city had a down day. But Sunday's always have odd numbers. We had a big dump of cases a couple of days ago because we started counting all cases and not waiting for one lab to confirm anything, and since then the numbers have been steady in the 300-500 range. Today is a down day but we will see what tomorrow brings.

If my city doesn't get this under control we are going to be Italy v2. We are basically 10 days away from 10K cases if things don't turn around.

According to the figures, Canada's curve is rising rapidly and the number of cases of newly infected persons is increasing day by day. Unfortunately, I have no idea what the specific interventions are, but if Montreal is or becomes the epicentre, there is no getting around a complete lockdown. I only found general clues like "Stay at home", which of course won't help.

 

[llien]

At the moment, there does appear to be reason to be skeptical about the death numbers coming from Spain and Italy, as both appear to be having their all-cause mortality numbers added to their "death by Coronavirus" numbers.

If anything, there are suspicions they are doing exactly the opposite.

China and South Korea are taking draconian measures to track and quarantine their infected populations. South Korea also has a relatively small population and land mass that allows them to be more effective with these surveillance and containment measures. I also don't believe much at all coming out of China, so there's that.

Nothing draconian about what South Korea is doing and hardly anything left of China was doing and what heavily hit western countries are not.
South Korea is, a densely populated area with 50+ million people on it, is relatively small compared to what?

Japan is, sadly, now starting to see its numbers increase.

While others where seeing number of daily infected double every 3 days, in Japan it was going at much slower pace, with number of case increasing every week.
Which is very peculiar for a country that hardly changed anything about adults.

 

[crowbrow]

Is this real life

The ego of that man is almost as big as the rate of infection. Hyping ratings out of a tragedy. Between Hillary, Biden and Trump, US politics is like a clown show and the clowns are dealing with the emergency.

 

[RSB]

At the moment, there does appear to be reason to be skeptical about the death numbers coming from Spain and Italy, as both appear to be having their all-cause mortality numbers added to their "death by Coronavirus" numbers.

There is reason to be skeptical, but for the opposite reason. The deaths by coronavirus are likely higher than the official numbers say.

 

[Tesseract]

The ego of that man is almost as big as the rate of infection. Hyping ratings out of a tragedy. Between Hillary, Biden and Trump, US politics is like a clown show and the clowns are dealing with the emergency.

god you are helpless at times

 

[cryptoadam]

100% this. No one would have accepted lockdowns in the west at the beginning of this month. Not even three weeks ago. It would have been political suicide to even suggest them.

Or testing. People are going to accept taking time out of their day to have a swab shoved up their nose and down their throat? When there are like 100 cases outside of Asia.

Sure now everyone wants a test because we are all scared to die from this. 6 or 8 weeks ago not so much. And then we get into the ethics of forcing people to be tested. Forcing everyone who rode the subway car between 4 and 6 PM to get tested if they like it or not. My body my decision? Not when it comes to COVID testing LOL.

Can you imagine explaining to a liberal and Trump hater that after the impeachment failed because the Republicans in the senate refused to hold a "trial", that now Trump wants every American to get tested for some China virus and he will be locking down all of NYC and preventing the DNC from holding rallies, primaries, cacuses, and debates. And these people were going to line up to be tested because Trump said so ? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[Chaplain]

"A difficult subject this one. I had the pleasure of a fireside chat with Dr Steve Jenkins on the subject of death during the Coronavirus pandemic. We discuss death rates and their limitations, risks to different ages, how we discuss the subject of death in hospital." (3/29/20)

 

[Wvrs]

Living in Korea is like an alternate reality right now. I'm still trying to respect social distancing as much as is possible but the mood here is that we beat this thing. Restaurants, bars, streets are packed. I'm concerned people are getting overconfident and there's going to be a resurgence in cases but at the same time it's bizarre hearing how things are back in the west when day-to-day life here feels so normal.

 

[cryptoadam]

According to the figures, Canada's curve is rising rapidly and the number of cases of newly infected persons is increasing day by day. Unfortunately, I have no idea what the specific interventions are, but if Montreal is or becomes the epicentre, there is no getting around a complete lockdown. I only found general clues like "Stay at home", which of course won't help.

I can tell you in QC we are under lockdown till April 15th, anything that is not essential business is closed. We started closing our schools during our spring break (which is the 1st week of March here). We followed that up with closure of cinema's, gyms, and restos were 10 people max. This was basically the last 2 weeks. Now a few days ago like I said lockdown. You can still go out and buy groceries and pharmacy etc... But there is no bars/clubs/cinema's/restsos/gyms open so not much place to go. We are no a state of emergency and more measures are being put in place. We have constant propaganda messages about social distancing staying home etc... There is a huge drive across all media's to push this message (which is good). I listen to the radio at work and there is a social distancing jingle every ad break. So in Quebec and Canada we are taking measures.

Now I do have some complaints. first off I work in an "essential service", though I don't really consider it essential. Lets just say its finance. Soon I will work from home, but this allows me to drive to work each day. I still see many cars. A lot less but still see cars out there. Second off 42% of our cases are coming from one area. I know that area, I know that community. They held a wedding 2 weeks ago pretty much the same day our no more than 10 people decree went into place. That turned that community and area into a time bomb and the epicenter of Montreal. The mayor of that area wanted to close it down, the provincial government stepped in and said no, no one going rogue. This was last week. This probably could of stopped some of the spread outside that area. And final to slow on shutting down the public transport. I have been saying for 2 weeks to do it, when we had 30 cases, and now we have 1300 and all they are doing is reducing the hours. Good thing is that numbers came out and something like 80% of fares are down so people are staying away from bus and metro.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

If anything, there are suspicions they are doing exactly the opposite.

There is reason to be skeptical, but for the opposite reason. The deaths by coronavirus are likely higher than the official numbers say.

Wow, looks like I totally misinterpreted that when I saw it posted yesterday. Thanks for the correction.

 

[betrayal]

Seriously.

This is what the EU were saying two weeks ago:

EU Executive Warns Against Border Closures as Way to Curb Coronavirus

European Union countries must take care not to damage food and medicine supply lines as they slap on border restrictions in the drive to curb the spread of coronavirus, the EU's executive arm said on Monday.

www.nytimes.com

So woke, so noble, so brave.

The EU is idiocy in its purest form. Closing the borders, as many countries in Europe have already done and allowing commuters and the transportation of goods. Problem solved.

 

[holygeesus]

The US has done more test than SK. SK has only done like 350K tests. Sure they have a smaller population and if the CDC test kits weren't borked maybe the US could of been a big quicker.

The big difference is SK can contact trace and track people via their cell phones.

If you started testing in NYC a month ago, how you gonna catch everyone without contract tracing? You don't have peoples cell data to know they rode the train to West Broadway and then ate at McDonalds before heading to time square where they bought a pack of smokes in a bodega.

Earlier testing probably would of helped with modeling and maybe put a bigger emphasis on lockdowns earlier, but I don't think it would of stopped much. Germany tested a lot too and they haven't stopped the spread they are a top 5 country and will eventually surpass a few of the other big players as their cases wind down.

Have a read of this article when you get 5 minutes

The missing six weeks: how Trump failed the biggest test of his life

The president was aware of the danger from the coronavirus – but a lack of leadership has created an emergency of epic proportions

www.theguardian.com

The important bits are

Within a week of its first confirmed case, South Korea’s disease control agency had summoned 20 private companies to the medical equivalent of a war-planning summit and told them to develop a test for the virus at lightning speed. A week after that, the first diagnostic test was approved and went into battle, identifying infected individuals who could then be quarantined to halt the advance of the disease.

Some 357,896 tests later, the country has more or less won the coronavirus war. On Friday only 91 new caseswere reported in a country of more than 50 million.

The US response tells a different story. Two days after the first diagnosis in Washington state, Donald Trump went on air on CNBCand bragged: “We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming from China. It’s going to be just fine.”

A week after that, the Wall Street Journal published an opinion article by two former top health policy officials within the Trump administration under the headline Act Now to Prevent an American Epidemic. Luciana Borio and Scott Gottlieb laid out a menu of what had to be done instantly to avert a massive health disaster.

Top of their to-do list: work with private industry to develop an “easy-to-use, rapid diagnostic test” – in other words, just what South Korea was doing.

It was not until 29 February, more than a month after the Journal article and almost six weeks after the first case of coronavirus was confirmed in the country that the Trump administration put that advice into practice. Laboratories and hospitals would finally be allowed to conduct their own Covid-19 tests to speed up the process.

Timing is everything. If Trump had followed the South Korean model immediately it would have been easier to lockdown. There cant be any disputing this.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Nothing draconian about what South Korea is doing and hardly anything left of China was doing and what heavily hit western countries are not.
South Korea is, a densely populated area with 50+ million people on it, is relatively small compared to what?

While others where seeing number of daily infected double every 3 days, in Japan it was going at much slower pace, with number of case increasing every week.
Which is very peculiar for a country that hardly changed anything about adults.

Nothing draconian about testing and then tracking people's movement via cellphone to ensure that are staying locked down? I disagree. When I said relatively small about South Korea, though, I was referring to its land mass. It's like 1/100th the size of the United States. That certainly makes it a lot easier to implement containment policies.

And with Japan, I hope their slow pace continues, but it just recently started to increase in the last few days in places like Tokyo and Chiba, etc. I truly hope this isn't the start of their big acceleration. I've got a lot friends, family, and coworkers who are age 50+ there.

 

[eot]

Deaths may be severely under reported at the moment

«The real death toll for Covid-19 is at least 4 times the official numbers»

Nembro, one of the municipalities most affected by Covid-19, should have had - under normal conditions - about 35 deaths. 158 people were registered dead this year by the municipal offices. But the number of deaths officially attributed to Covid-19 is 31

www.corriere.it

 

[GHG]

The EU is idiocy in its purest form. Closing the borders, as many countries in Europe have already done and allowing commuters and the transportation of goods. Problem solved.

But but but freedom of movement for the people.

The fact that individual countries took it upon themselves to close their borders before the EU piped up and close them says it all.

 

[Kenpachii]

OMG our Dutch CDC now admits their models are not being reached but their worst case scenarios are ... good work people .. it’s not rocket science! Like I shouted weeks ago! Lock down ! And your herd immunity experiment failed, just like I predicted..

They should give me their job.. good thing I tweeted our PM my plan weeks ago (true story)

Now you ffed us.

OMG they exactly you told you they will increase measurements if needed.

Maybe follow the news once in a while.

Herd immunity is the only way out of this mess at the end of the day.

I also hope EU completely crumbles after this, however those communists in brussels are now already busy by trying to create load bonds that the entire EU covers which means nothern west country's can pay for the shit in southern country's. No thanks.

 

[gamerMan]

Dr. Anthony Fauci just said up to 200,000 deaths are expected in the US. He's on CNN right now.

Yes this is in the ballpark of the current curve. We are going to have 80,000 to 300,000 deaths with the Apex of the curve occurring sometime in April. This is if we are following social distancing. On the Apex, we will have between 1200 and 5000 deaths in a single day.

If we start the economy back up early, we will see the curve shift out even further. It should begin to slow down rapidly in June and early July. By August it should reach close to 0 deaths. If we find a drug that we can re-purpose or innovate we can shift the curve and save lives. Here is the current projection if nothing changes in terms of innovation and we don't pull back on social distancing.

 

[betrayal]

I can tell you in QC we are under lockdown till April 15th, anything that is not essential business is closed. We started closing our schools during our spring break (which is the 1st week of March here). We followed that up with closure of cinema's, gyms, and restos were 10 people max. This was basically the last 2 weeks. Now a few days ago like I said lockdown. You can still go out and buy groceries and pharmacy etc... But there is no bars/clubs/cinema's/restsos/gyms open so not much place to go. We are no a state of emergency and more measures are being put in place. We have constant propaganda messages about social distancing staying home etc... There is a huge drive across all media's to push this message (which is good). I listen to the radio at work and there is a social distancing jingle every ad break. So in Quebec and Canada we are taking measures.

Now I do have some complaints. first off I work in an "essential service", though I don't really consider it essential. Lets just say its finance. Soon I will work from home, but this allows me to drive to work each day. I still see many cars. A lot less but still see cars out there. Second off 42% of our cases are coming from one area. I know that area, I know that community. They held a wedding 2 weeks ago pretty much the same day our no more than 10 people decree went into place. That turned that community and area into a time bomb and the epicenter of Montreal. The mayor of that area wanted to close it down, the provincial government stepped in and said no, no one going rogue. This was last week. This probably could of stopped some of the spread outside that area. And final to slow on shutting down the public transport. I have been saying for 2 weeks to do it, when we had 30 cases, and now we have 1300 and all they are doing is reducing the hours. Good thing is that numbers came out and something like 80% of fares are down so people are staying away from bus and metro.

Well, that doesn't sound so bad. I think you just have to be patient, so that something positive can be seen in the numbers. In the end, we can be grateful that the coronavirus is relatively "harmless". If another more dangerous virus makes its rounds in the next decades, the governments will certainly react much faster.
The whole West, Europe and America, has simply failed here and not taken the problem seriously enough. If all the measures taken now or in the last few weeks had already been implemented in the middle or end of February, the worst would already be behind us and the economy and the people would by no means have to take such a heavy blow as they are doing now.

 

[Alx]

The EU is idiocy in its purest form. Closing the borders, as many countries in Europe have already done and allowing commuters and the transportation of goods. Problem solved.

The EU was specifically warning about the consequences for countries who also blocked transportations of goods. How can it be "idiocy" when they're advocating the exact solution you're suggesting ?

 

[cryptoadam]

Have a read of this article when you get 5 minutes

The missing six weeks: how Trump failed the biggest test of his life

The president was aware of the danger from the coronavirus – but a lack of leadership has created an emergency of epic proportions

www.theguardian.com

The important bits are







Timing is everything. If Trump had followed the South Korean model immediately it would have been easier to lockdown. There cant be any disputing this.

Meanwhile we have other articles

What Went Wrong with Coronavirus Testing in the U.S.

During three crucial weeks in February, as a first set of test kits sent out by the C.D.C. failed to work properly, labs across the country scrambled to fill the void.

www.newyorker.com

The public-health-laboratory network was never intended to provide widespread testing in the event of a pandemic. To offer tests to anyone who wanted them, as President Trump did, on March 6th, was always going to require commercial testing facilities to come on line. Still, the three-week delay caused by the C.D.C.’s failure to get working test kits into the hands of the public-health labs came at a crucial time. In the early stages of an outbreak, contact tracing, isolation, and individual quarantines are regularly deployed to contain the spread of a disease. But these tools are useless if suspected cases of a disease cannot be tested. The void created by the C.D.C.’s faulty tests made it impossible for public-health authorities to get an accurate picture of how far and how fast the disease was spreading. In hotspots like Seattle, and probably elsewhere, covid-19 spread undetected for several weeks, which in turn only multiplied the need for more tests. “Once you’re behind the eight ball, it’s very hard to catch up,” Alberto Gutierrez, the former head of the F.D.A. Office of In Vitro Diagnostics and Radiological Health, which regulates tests, told me. “The problem was that containment was not done very well. At this point, we’re looking at exponential growth, and we need to figure out how to meet an exponential demand.”

We can put whatever ever partisan spin we want on it.

Also lets keep in mind that the FDA made the CDC the only ones authorized to do testing until Trump cut the red tape. So the CDC sending out bad kits meant that their mistake tanked the entire testing process, there was no back up testers.

But, as soon as Alex Azar, the Secretary of Health and Human Services, declared a public-health emergency, on February 4th, a new regulatory regime took effect. From that point on, any lab that wanted to conduct its own tests for the new coronavirus would first need to secure something called an Emergency Use Authorization from the F.D.A. (The C.D.C., which had been working closely with the F.D.A., received the first E.U.A. for a covid-19 test on the same day as Azar’s declaration.)
This shift in the regulations sounds perverse, since it restricts the use of new tests at precisely the moment they’re most needed. But Joshua Sharfstein, a former principal deputy commissioner of the F.D.A., told me that the change is meant to protect the public. “You certainly wouldn’t want to say, ‘Any lab can advertise a coronavirus test.’ Because then it’s going to be chaos. There are a lot of people who will sell things that may or may not work.” Sharfstein said that the E.U.A. law was designed to offer the F.D.A. a way to cut through red tape in the case of emergencies. He signed the very first E.U.A, in 2009, during the H1N1-flu epidemic, after the C.D.C. requested approval for diagnostic tests. “I met with the lawyers to explain to me the E.U.A. process, and they basically said, ‘It’s whatever we think it is. We can make it up to fit the time.’ If you tell me I’ve got twelve hours, I could get some very smart people on the phone to do our best to figure out something that’s going to work. The E.U.A. process is supremely flexible.”


Yet flexibility was not what Jerome and his lab found when they tried to get an E.U.A. for their covid-19 test. “From the point of view of the academic labs, we look at it, like, when there’s any run-of-the-mill virus that people are used to, they trust us to make a test,” he said. “But when there’s a big emergency and we feel like we should really do something, it gets hard. It’s a little frustrating. We’ve got a lot of scientists and doctors and laboratory personnel who are incredibly good at making assays. What we’re not so good at is figuring out all the forms and working with the bureaucracy of the federal government.” Jerome said that Greninger had to call and e-mail the F.D.A. multiple times to figure out what they needed to secure an E.U.A. “At one point, he was very frustrated because he’d e-mailed them what we were doing so they could review it,” Jerome said. “But legally you also had to mail a physical copy. Here we are in this sars-CoV-2 crisis, and you have to send them something through the United States Postal Service. It’s just shocking.” (The F.D.A. has since dropped the requirement to send a CD-rom or USB drive with a copy of the application.) Despite these difficulties, Jerome said, the F.D.A. ultimately proved responsive to the lab’s entreaties. “They had good and substantive feedback that made our testing better, and the response time was typically just a couple of days.”


Is it Trumps fault for not taking more power and fighting with more people to get the CDC and FDA to relinquish control and push a private public partnership earlier and further? Sure I guess so. Every western leader is in the same boat. SK/Taiwan/HK are the only places that didn't fall in this trap and thats because they live in the Shadow of the evil CCP and know that at any moment the CCP is going to do something disgusting, vile, and evil so they have to be on guard at any moment.

I guess you can say the buck stops with Trump, but he was dealing with a broken system, and lies from the WHO and the CCP. Every leader fell victim to this.

 

[GHG]

The EU was specifically warning about the consequences for countries who also blocked transportations of goods. How can it be "idiocy" when they're advocating the exact solution you're suggesting ?

They lumped freedom of movement for individuals in with goods and services when they should have tackled them separately from the start:

"The coronavirus crisis has highlighted the challenge of protecting the health of the population whilst avoiding disruptions to the free movement of persons, and the delivery of goods and essential services across Europe," the European Commission said in a note to the 27 member states."

The stance should have been simple: No more free movement for individuals, trade can continue as normal.

 

[betrayal]

The EU was specifically warning about the consequences for countries who also blocked transportations of goods. How can it be "idiocy" when they're advocating the exact solution you're suggesting ?

Many countries in Europe have already closed their borders. Exceptions are commuters in many border areas. As far as I know, the transport of goods is happening everywhere, despite closed borders.
In my opinion, what the EU is calling for does not relate to the transport of goods, but to people's freedom to travel, the accommodation of refugees and some fundamental rights (freely move through the EU) that are worth shit in such a crisis and only cost human lives.

 

[eot]

:lol

 

[sinnergy]

OMG they exactly you told you they will increase measurements if needed.

Maybe follow the news once in a while.

Herd immunity is the only way out of this mess at the end of the day.

I also hope EU completely crumbles after this, however those communists in brussels are now already busy by trying to create load bonds that the entire EU covers which means nothern west country's can pay for the shit in southern country's. No thanks.

It’s not , because we don’t know if you get immune, or how long it lasts ...

First do a full fucking strict lock down ... to get organized. After that do your immunization trick. Also it’s not predictable as influenza.

You better hope America goes into full lock down this week.

 

[Jack Videogames]

I'm just watched American Factory on Netflix and really the last thing anyone should do is leave the management of this crisis to the Chinese. Dear God

 

[sinnergy]

They lumped freedom of movement for individuals in with goods and services when they should have tackled them separately from the start:

"The coronavirus crisis has highlighted the challenge of protecting the health of the population whilst avoiding disruptions to the free movement of persons, and the delivery of goods and essential services across Europe," the European Commission said in a note to the 27 member states."

The stance should have been simple: No more free movement for individuals, trade can continue as normal.

Yup, but they rather talk a bit more ..

 

[SushiReese]

Right today's morning in Florida, I could foresee a South Korea 2.0 religion spread in the coming future.






The River Church in Tampa was packed to the gills with worshipers who clearly were looking for hope. Pastor Rodney Howard-Browne, who presides over the megachurch and has been reportedly defiant over social distancing, has claimed he'll cure coronavirus just the way he did with Zika.

He has vowed he will never close his church ... despite every doctor and scientist saying social distancing is the only thing that will prevent the disease from spreading even more.

The Pastor boasted his place was white-glove clean, saying, “We brought in 13 machines that basically kill every virus in the place, and uh, if somebody walks through the door it’s like, it kills everything on them. If they sneeze, it shoots it down at like 100 mph. It'll neutralize it in split seconds. We have the most sterile building in, I don’t know, all of America.”

Howard-Browne said on March 17, "We are not stopping anything. I've got news for you, this church will never close. The only time the church will close is when the Rapture is taking place.”

“If you cannot be saved in church, you in serious trouble,” Pastor Rodney Howard-Browne told Florida’s River Tampa Bay Church, as he encouraged congregants to hug in defiance of health warnings.

“This Bible school is open because we’re raising up revivalists, not pansies.”

“If you don’t believe God, and trust God, you will not make it in the days coming,” he said, adding he would continue to “lay hands” on fellow believers.




“God will protect our people,” he said. “And if you die to be with Jesus, so what’s the problem?”


If Pastor Howard-Browne sounds familiar to you, you may be remembering when he posted these signs at every entrance to his church:
https://www.tmz.com/2020/03/29/chruch-service-florida-coronavirus-worship/

 

[crowbrow]

Every western leader is in the same boat. SK/Taiwan/HK are the only places that didn't fall in this trap and thats because they live in the Shadow of the evil CCP

hahaha that's nonsense, almost every european nation was also ahead of testing in comparison to the US, nobody botched the tests like the CDC.

 

[Alx]

Many countries in Europe have already closed their borders. Exceptions are commuters in many border areas. As far as I know, the transport of goods is happening everywhere, despite closed borders.

From the same article :
"With the official death toll in Italy now at nearly 1,300 cases and at about 300 in Spain, the Commission's calls for unity and solidarity have been falling largely on deaf ears as each nation tries to fend for itself, and reports spread of cars and trucks getting stuck at what are normally invisible borders."

It's not about keeping open borders out of pure ideology, it's because adding too much control on borders will disrupt the transport of goods. It's even the first sentence of the article ;
"European Union countries must take care not to damage food and medicine supply lines as they slap on border restrictions in the drive to curb the spread of coronavirus, the EU's executive arm said on Monday. "

 

[hariseldon]

Is this real life

It's just fantasy.

 

[Schattenjäger]

Is this real life

he can only troll you if you let him

 

[Kenpachii]

It’s not , because we don’t know if you get immune, or how long it lasts ...

First do a full fucking strict lock down ... to get organized. After that do your immunization trick. Also it’s not predictable as influenza.

You better hope America goes into full lock down this week.

There is no need to go full lockdown if you got hospitals and rooms to spare. Locking people up in there houses is the dumbest thing u could do. What's going to happen when u tell them to get out of there houses again? boom massive spread starts all over again. And that's exactly what's going to happen in all of those country's.

It's just there to releave hospitals from pressure and that's about it. But even that isn't working well.

The only solution is get imuum and the weak can lock themselves up if they want to, to wait for a cure or some form of treatment to appear while they are at it.

Anybody that still thinks about preventing instead of herd immunity is living in lala land.

 

[darkestdame]

he can only troll you if you let him

It’s wild that this has to be said about a sitting president

 

[GHG]

From the same article :
"With the official death toll in Italy now at nearly 1,300 cases and at about 300 in Spain, the Commission's calls for unity and solidarity have been falling largely on deaf ears as each nation tries to fend for itself, and reports spread of cars and trucks getting stuck at what are normally invisible borders."

It's not about keeping open borders out of pure ideology, it's because adding too much control on borders will disrupt the transport of goods. It's even the first sentence of the article ;
"European Union countries must take care not to damage food and medicine supply lines as they slap on border restrictions in the drive to curb the spread of coronavirus, the EU's executive arm said on Monday. "

These are the actual quotes from the EU without the journalist tripe:

"The coronavirus crisis has highlighted the challenge of protecting the health of the population whilst avoiding disruptions to the free movement of persons, and the delivery of goods and essential services across Europe," the European Commission said in a note to the 27 member states.

"The implementation of... checks of persons and goods should be governed by the principle of solidarity between member states,"

"In order to avoid shortages and a worsening of the social and economic difficulties that all European countries are already experiencing, maintaining the functioning of the Single Market is key,"

Nobody gives a scooby about "social difficulties" and "free movement of persons" when everyone should be staying the fuck at home anyway.

 

[SushiReese]

 

[Captain Zyrain]

Thank, moonbeam.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Timing is everything. If Trump had followed the South Korean model immediately it would have been easier to lockdown. There cant be any disputing this.

There was never a scenario in which the US would have followed the South Korean model. It could have been a Bernie and AOC administration and that would never have happened.

We didn't even see it happen in Washington, California, or New York. It was never going to happen on a national scale.

 

[Tesseract]

it's not going to happen, there's still people on the beaches in my area and they've been locked

people will die