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[Bladed Thesis]

The internet is literally going to melt once Sony reveals the console itself.

How much of that momentum do you think will be sustainable though once people realize there is no Spiderman 2, horizon zero dawn 2, God of War 2, Bloodborne 2, Uncharted 5, or gran turismo?

If Sony leads the launch games reveal with Godfall and enhanced versions of The Last of US 2 and Ghosts of Tsushima which people will have already played by this holiday people may very quickly lose interest.

I am sort of expecting a new Ratchet and Clank or Jak and Daxter title though... I do hope that happens at launch.

I'm expecting big reveals from both. It's a new generation. As good as Sony is, they're very smart. They know they can't just rely on the PS4 library and excellence. They'll deliver the PS5 games as well and that means showing us whats in the pipeline. Same goes for MS. Show the games, tell us what you're going to do this coming generation.

 

[Codexer]

 

[Fun Fanboy]

Yep. That's a Tidux tweet. Absolutely nothing.

 

[DaGwaphics]

Every next gen only game 2014 on wards had PS4 tier or better GPU as min system requirements, VRAM requirements were also raised. Remember the 2GB VRAM is fine and will last you the whole gen rhetoric?
Console GPUs & SSDs will become the base spec requirements. You of course can run with lower hardware on PC but performance and game not breaking are not guaranteed. Crossgen will support SATA SSDs and possibly HHDs but next gen only games will require a combination of faster SSDs and more RAM to match consoles.

PCs have vast amounts of DDR4 memory to act as a buffer. For example a 1GB/s SSD coupled with 20-24GB would be enough. 500MB/s SSDs might need a 32GB DDR4 buffer to match the XSX I/O output if you have that you gucci.

Nah, games like Dying Light only required a GTX 560 /HD 6870, even Project Cars 2 only requires a GTX 680 or better (in 2017). The majority of PCs today are laptops, and dev's don't want to give that market up entirely. I wouldn't expect any crazy RAM demands either. Max Payne 3 for example required 2GB of system memory, Dying Light required 4GB. Many games released today require 8GB of system memory, so maybe you'll start to see 16GB requirements early into the gen. 20 to 24 is quite high, when looking at the average specs in the wild, you'd have to wonder who they'd even be selling these games to.

 

[Metroiddarks]

Tidux please don't say anything good of any console because you always are wrong .... please stop

 

[ethomaz]

Is he not copying that video?

 

[CrysisFreak]

Is he not copying that video?

Here's where I would feel the power of PS5.

IF I HAD ONE
X/

 

[geordiemp]

Nah, games like Dying Light only required a GTX 560 /HD 6870, even Project Cars 2 only requires a GTX 680 or better (in 2017). The majority of PCs today are laptops, and dev's don't want to give that market up entirely. I wouldn't expect any crazy RAM demands either. Max Payne 3 for example required 2GB of system memory, Dying Light required 4GB. Many games released today require 8GB of system memory, so maybe you'll start to see 16GB requirements early into the gen. 20 to 24 is quite high, when looking at the average specs in the wild, you'd have to wonder who they'd even be selling these games to.

PC Gamers buy games at full price ?

 

[Neo Blaster]

Every next gen only game 2014 on wards had PS4 tier or better GPU as min system requirements, VRAM requirements were also raised. Remember the 2GB VRAM is fine and will last you the whole gen rhetoric?
Console GPUs & SSDs will become the base spec requirements. You of course can run with lower hardware on PC but performance and game not breaking are not guaranteed. Crossgen will support SATA SSDs and possibly HHDs but next gen only games will require a combination of faster SSDs and more RAM to match consoles.

PCs have vast amounts of DDR4 memory to act as a buffer. For example a 1GB/s SSD coupled with 20-24GB would be enough. 500MB/s SSDs might need a 32GB DDR4 buffer to match the XSX I/O output if you have that you gucci.

So PC gamers can expect a raise in amount of RAM to couple SSD mandatory requirements?

 

[DaGwaphics]

PC Gamers buy games at full price ?

Only by accident.

Devs still care about that market though. Just saw Guillemot from Ubi gushing over the possibility of millions of laptops and ultra lights with gaming capabilities at or above PS4 level the other day. They aren't going to kneecap themselves there too quickly.

 

[nosseman]

CoD Ghosts was running at 720p vs 1080p. thats literally half the resolution.

Battlefield was also running at 720p. though it was running at 900p (50% more pixels) on the ps5.

Titanfall ran at 768p. Those are extremely low resolutions. and around 50% more pixels on the pro. With next gen, we will have PS5 games running reconstruction techniques to hit 4k anyway. it's not going to be a case where games are running at 50-100% fewer pixels. the tflops gap between the two consoles is 18% which is basically what you are going to see. you might see both consoles use checkerboarding for next gen games with MS pushing around 5-6 more frames per second for a more stable performance in 60 fps games. thats far more noticeable than any resolution when you are checkerboarding everything anyway.

CoD Ghost was strange.

The resolution was higher on PS4 but the FPS was higher on Xbox One.

 

[SonGoku]

Wow, people are still attacking the PlayStation 5.

Don't even give those clickbait videos exposure/views

Yeah but it might be stacked on top of the CPU & GPU , look at the image it shows a stacked chip then it also show another board or chip that's being stacked on top of that main chip

My guess would be that it's either the the I/O chip on top of the CPU & GPU or they will have the I/O chip & CPU on the same layer with the GPU stacked on top. Then the other board or chip ( 9) is Wifi , SSD & so on

Sounds crazy i don't believe.
BTW this setup wouldn't have performance/latency penalty?

Nah, games like Dying Light only required a GTX 560 /HD 6870, even Project Cars 2 only requires a GTX 680 or better (in 2017

So one example? there are far more examples of current gen only games (including pc2) requiring PS4 tier or better GPUs as min requirements

he majority of PCs today are laptops, and dev's don't want to give that market up entirely.

Consoles rule AAA development priorities as they make the vast majority of purchases. Laptop gamers wont have trouble upgrading in 2021/2022 as gaming laptops are luxury items anyways, I would think desktop owners are more price conscious.

BTW majority of PCs are potatoes with GPUs less capable than the XB1S doesn't mean they are the target audience for AAA devs

I wouldn't expect any crazy RAM demands either. Max Payne 3 for example required 2GB of system memory, Dying Light required 4GB. Many games released today require 8GB of system memory, so maybe you'll start to see 16GB requirements early into the gen.

Max Payne 3 is last gen game and Dying Light is the exception not the norm (8GB)
16GB RAM would be fine with a fast 3GB/s+ SSDs and 12 core CPUs (3-4 cores for decompression). But to make up for slower drives they'll need more RAM to act as buffer
System requirements will strike a balance between SSD speeds and RAM capacity. Depending of which is more expensive they'll prioritize the other

So PC gamers can expect a raise in amount of RAM to couple SSD mandatory requirements?

A mix of both yeah, but we won't see next gen only games till late 2021 at the earliest, there's plenty of time to upgrade

 

[SlimySnake]

CoD Ghost was strange.

The resolution was higher on PS4 but the FPS was higher on Xbox One.

i thought they were both 60 fps.

maybe the xbox one version was 60 fps locke. plenty of pro titles run at better framerates than the x1x versions because they dont have to run at native 4k.

 

[DaGwaphics]

SonGoku , I think you're wrong on multiple levels, but we'll see. In my view, the next gen consoles have moved up a tier into solid 4k territory. The PC market outside of the upper middle haven't gotten there just yet and probably won't for the next 4 or 5 years. Expect minimum requirements to target 1080p, maybe 900p for demanding titles, on lesser hardware. Can you provide a list of all the games that required PS4 or greater hardware in 2014 - 2017? I couldn't find many.

It's all just guesses in good fun.

 

[Wandering Leopard]

CoD Ghost was strange.

The resolution was higher on PS4 but the FPS was higher on Xbox One.

Not so unusual, there was a similar scenario with RE3 - with the PS4pro version having an fps advantage over the OneX version, until the OneX version also had its resolution lowered (from 4k) to 1620p.

Both next gen consoles should comfortably handle native 4k, but still not sure it's worth the performance cost, there would likely be far more 60fps titles if most devs targeted something around 1800p with checkerboard rendering - VR titles would also benefit.

 

[Thirty7ven]

2014

Assassins Creed Unity
Dragon Age Inquisition
Destiny

These had minimum required specs on PC that were comparable to Xbox One.

I think minimum specs in terms of GPU aren’t going to get much of a hit this time around though. There will be a much bigger raise on CPU and storage drive obviously.

Again exclusives are where we go to, when it comes to see closed platforms really pushed to their limits in the earlier years.

 

[splattered]

Not sure which of my comments pissed off a mod here but I now have 7 huge banner ads when I log into the home page... literally displays as a single thread separated by a huge 2 to 3 inch banner ad then another small thread title then a 2 or 3 inch banner over and over down the page haha

 

[Metroiddarks]

For the people who still wonder why PC is not main market for all the devs, well just in this year FFVII and AC sold more 3 millions in
around one week.

When was the last time you heard a similar number for a exclusive release in PC ?

This mean all the games have as main market console not, some genders like RTS, MOBA, MMO and some battle royale have as main
market the PC also for very specific games like Doom, Crysis.

About the indie space well, the sales for them in Switch are even sometimes bigger than PC, Xbox and PS combine so yeah also is not like
the PC environment is necessary better for them.
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...tch-versions-of-indie-games-outselling-others

 

[Ascend]

SonGoku , I think you're wrong on multiple levels, but we'll see. In my view, the next gen consoles have moved up a tier into solid 4k territory. The PC market outside of the upper middle haven't gotten there just yet and probably won't for the next 4 or 5 years. Expect minimum requirements to target 1080p, maybe 900p for demanding titles, on lesser hardware. Can you provide a list of all the games that required PS4 or greater hardware in 2014 - 2017? I couldn't find many.

It's all just guesses in good fun.

Considering the chip size of the XSX, I don't think it's hard at all for AMD to release a GPU that will result in graphics cards in the $300-$400 range, that are fully capable of 4K. Whether that's upper mid or not, is another discussion lol.

In any case... The XSX APU is 360 mm2. A Zen 2 chiplet is around 80 mm2, which basically leaves around 280 mm2 for the GPU. This is not far away from the 5700XT's 251 mm2. For 30 mm2 more you're getting RTX 2080S-ish performance. I don't think it will take 4-5 years. We'll be there in a year from now, maybe two, and not much longer, imo.

 

[SonGoku]

SonGoku , I think you're wrong on multiple levels, but we'll see

Point out where then?

The PC market outside of the upper middle haven't gotten there just yet and probably won't for the next 4 or 5 years. Expect minimum requirements to target 1080p, maybe 900p for demanding titles, on lesser hardware

PC market is not a priority for AAA devs as consoles make the majority of profit for them
I definitely see inferior GPUs running games just fine on 1080p. The main problem for compatibility will be VRAM, I/O (SSD & RAM)

Can you provide a list of all the games that required PS4 or greater hardware in 2014 - 2017? I couldn't find many.
It's all just guesses in good fun.

Most current gen only AAA games you can think off. All Assassins creed games, shadow of mordor, fallout 4, the witcher 3, battlefront etc
BTW i just checked Dying Light was originally a PS360 game, explains its low requirements

 

[Fake]

CoD Ghost was strange.

The resolution was higher on PS4 but the FPS was higher on Xbox One.

Was Xbox One got a cpu boost before release?

 

[DaGwaphics]

Considering the chip size of the XSX, I don't think it's hard at all for AMD to release a GPU that will result in graphics cards in the $300-$400 range, that is fully capable of 4K.

The XSX APU is 360 mm2. A Zen 2 chiplet is around 80 mm2, which basically leaves around 280 mm2 for the GPU. This is not far away from the 5700XT's 251 mm2. For 30 mm2 more you're getting RTX 2080S-ish performance. I don't think it will take 4-5 years. We'll be there in a year from now, maybe two, and not much longer, imo.

Absolutely, but how long does it take for those to propagate the PC landscape? Most games released on PC try to accommodate at least the mid-level cards released 4 to 5 years prior to release, it takes a while for a newly available product to change the general landscape of what is out there.

 

[DaGwaphics]

Most current gen only AAA games you can think off. All Assassins creed games, shadow of mordor, fallout 4, the witcher 3, battlefront etc
BTW i just checked Dying Light was originally a PS360 game, explains its low requirements

I was speaking more in regards to the age of the GPUs, but yes, since the PS4/Xbone were weak at launch it creates a bit of that.

 

[Ascend]

Absolutely, but how long does it take for those to propagate the PC landscape? Most games released on PC try to accommodate at least the mid-level cards released 4 to 5 years prior to release, it takes a while for a newly available product to change the general landscape of what is out there.

You do have a point. If we take Steam's Hardware Survey as a reference, the GTX 1060, released in 2016, is today the most used graphics card. The most prominent "modern" card, the RTX 2060, consists of only 2% of the user base.

Edit: Thinking about it a bit more though... Isn't the same thing true for the consoles? Maybe not 5 years, but many people don't upgrade immediately, but after a year or two, to the new consoles. Maybe that's the reason Microsoft wants to support the Xbox One still...?

 

[SonGoku]

I was speaking more in regards to the age of the GPUs, but yes, since the PS4/Xbone were weak at launch it creates a bit of that.

Welp there lies the problem, AAA devs always prioritized consoles over pc, this gen they were just pathetic as DrKeo put it

the GTX 1060, released in 2016, is today the most used graphics card

The GTX 1060 is more capable than both PS4/XB1 combined

 

[Bo_Hazem]

That would be a huge/retarded waste of resources - how many people are there with 120Hz TVs to begin with? And even those wouldn't be able to experience the difference. 4K 240Hz TVs simply don't exist, and even if, I don't know if HDMI2.1 would be able to do the job... Let's just hope Kaz won't be able to achieve his crazy dreams.

Most likely for VR, BGs response gives me that vibe. I can see the new VR being 240Hz, or for other amusement shops:

And for FiA championships:

Plus 4K@240fps = 8K@60fps, so probably good for their TV branch going forward.

 

[onQ123]

Sounds crazy i don't believe.
BTW this setup wouldn't have performance/latency penalty?

It would actually enhance it

 

[Corndog]

That is definitely true. The PS5 will likely be more efficient in terms of power consumption and have more efficient memory allocation (i.e. less RAM usage to achieve the same thing). The rest... I don't see it outperforming the XSX. I can always be wrong. Slim chance in my view, but hey. You never know.

I have a hard time believing a console with a GPU running at 2.2 ghz will be more energy efficient then one running at 1.8 ghz.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Bo_Hazem I guess you are not a lego kind of person. Minecraft is addictive as hell. I've banned my kids from playing it. I think it's a bit like playing stupid mobile money grabber games; after a few months you'll realize WTF am I doing with my life.

No, man. I loved Lego but that was late 1980's and early 1990's, but this Minecraft is just below LEGO level. And you are a good father, that shit is harmful.

The heatsink can go on the bottom of the chip so it can have another chip stacked on top of it then another heatsink stacked on top of the other chip for double heatsink one on each side.

… I don't get it.

I mean, does Kerny believe this is better than having more CUs at clocks that do not require a fusion reactor to stay cool? I'm not being an ass, diehard Sony fanboy here, I'm legitimately wondering. Yeah, I heard his argument about higher clocks mean faster computing and the like, but … this whole thing starts to feel like a Frankenstein monster, some last resort to prevent the machine from exploding.

Or am I looking at this completely wrong?

I guess you missed the part about being able to stack another chip on it

Yeah, I think Sony is well prepared for PS5 Pro, I can see it coming. And a smaller chip has higher yields and can produce more, with another chip for PS5 Pro you're not wasting another SKU but using the same chip doubled:

Spoiler: if you're a vegan, please don't open

XSX would be lucky to sell more than 5 million in its whole cycle if Lockhart gets released.

 

[ZywyPL]

Most likely for VR, BGs response gives me that vibe. I can see the new VR being 240Hz, or for other amusement shops:

And for FiA championships:

Plus 4K@240fps = 8K@60fps, so probably good for their TV branch going forward.

That actually makes a perfect sense, 4K 120FPS per eye, exactly what VR needs.

 

[Radical_3d]

I have a hard time believing a console with a GPU running at 2.2 ghz will be more energy efficient then one running at 1.8 ghz.

Pretty much impossible.

XSX would be lucky to sell more than 5 million in its whole cycle if Lockhart gets released.

It’ll sell 5 millions before February.

 

[onQ123]

So here is the cooling patent.

Board will have hole punches in it so cooling system goes through it. As well as below it and on top of it . Thats cool . Abit over kill but that means ps5 will be quiet.

Whats number 9:

You probably got a answer by now but the patent talk about it being for Wifi , sensors , storage & things like that

 

[Thirty7ven]

Pretty much impossible.

It’ll sell 5 millions before February.

And how many Lockhart?

 

[MasterCornholio]

That actually makes a perfect sense, 4K 120FPS per eye, exactly what VR needs.

I'm honestly pretty excited for Dreams with VR. That creation platform is perfect for it.

On a side note I really should get Dreams. New content is always coming out for it and I'm dying to play alot of it.

 

[Lunatic_Gamer]

 

[FranXico]

CoD Ghost was strange.

The resolution was higher on PS4 but the FPS was higher on Xbox One.

That Jaguar CPU resulted in a lot of funny situations this gen.

 

[Ascend]

I have a hard time believing a console with a GPU running at 2.2 ghz will be more energy efficient then one running at 1.8 ghz.

Well, that's not the whole story. If you compare a GPU that has the same amount of CUs running at 1.8 GHz vs 2.2 GHz, obviously the one at 1.8 GHz will be more efficient.
One with 36CU at 2.2 GHz vs one at 52 CUs at 1.8 GHz... That's not so straightforward. We have insufficient data to determine this. But if we consider that one has SmartShift and lower clocks for the CPU, I don't really think that the XSX will be using less power than the PS5.

 

[Lunatic_Gamer]

Quantum Error Dev: PS5’s DualSense Is “Super Exciting”; Game Will Take Advantage of New Features.

Quantum Error Dev: PS5’s DualSense Is “Super Exciting”; Game Will Take Advantage of New Features

gamingbolt.com

 

[Radical_3d]

And how many Lockhart?

Very few. On launch the ones buying are us, the wacky ones. The core 360 and the 40GB PS3 sold very poorly and in the case of the core 360 it was when the premium was sold out and people buyed the hard drive separately.

 

[geordiemp]

You probably got a answer by now but the patent talk about it being for Wifi , sensors , storage & things like that

You missed the small print in the Japanese translation, yes its a generic patent for single and stacked devices, allows below....Sony can only patent backside cooling.

It maybe something else on top, but likely another cooler going by Sony frequencies. Also 2 medium heat sinks is probably more efficient than 1 big one ( but we dont know details yet for sure).

"another heat dissipation device may be arranged on the upper surface of the integrated circuit device 5. By doing so, two heat dissipation devices are provided in the integrated circuit device 5, so that the cooling performance can be improved."

 

[Thirty7ven]

Very few. On launch the ones buying are us, the wacky ones. The core 360 and the 40GB PS3 sold very poorly and in the case of the core 360 it was when the premium was sold out and people buyed the hard drive separately.

If Lockhart is a thing, MS completely disagrees with you.

 

[Bladed Thesis]

Very few. On launch the ones buying are us, the wacky ones. The core 360 and the 40GB PS3 sold very poorly and in the case of the core 360 it was when the premium was sold out and people buyed the hard drive separately.

The launch window includes Holiday 2020.

I just don't see that playing out the way you think it is. New system, new graphics, holidays. $300 new console. I can see it.

Don't agree with it but I can see it.

 

[geordiemp]

If Lockhart is a thing, MS completely disagrees with you.

Someone on beyond 3d was implying Lockart is not coming until 2021, who knows ?

If I were MS, you will sell all initial consoles in first 3 months anyway, so why put resources into budget console at launch which is only really needed by later adopters looking for deals and games included at the + 6 month stage.

 

[Radical_3d]

If Lockhart is a thing, MS completely disagrees with you.

MS is thinking in the long term. You asked how many on launch.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Amazing how it's been over a year and the only rumour that seems kind of concrete is 4TF (or something low like 5-6TF too).

Nothing else seems to be solid info.

Then again, most "insiders" claimed PS5 to be 12-13TF and look how that turned out. You never know. Maybe Lockhart is a streaming system like Stadia.

 

[Kusarigama]

Ramadan Kareem Bo_Hazem , peace and love brother.

 

[SonGoku]

It would actually enhance it

Go on

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Ramadan Kareem Bo_Hazem , peace and love brother.

Thanks a lot, dear brother! Well, it's Saturday for us in Oman.

 

[onQ123]

You missed the small print in the Japanese translation, yes its a generic patent for single and stacked devices, allows below....Sony can only patent backside cooling.

It maybe something else on top, but likely another cooler going by Sony frequencies. Also 2 medium heat sinks is probably more efficient than 1 big one ( but we dont know details yet for sure).

"another heat dissipation device may be arranged on the upper surface of the integrated circuit device 5. By doing so, two heat dissipation devices are provided in the integrated circuit device 5, so that the cooling performance can be improved."

The person asked what was 9 & I told them , I read the patent & even posted the quote you have in red

 

[icerock]

"Perfect Dark is a story- driven game with MMO elements. "

Spoiler