FranXico
Member
It's the same thing for both...
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Xbox Velocity Architecture - 100 GB is instantly accessible by the developer through a custom hardware decompression block
- Thread starter Bernkastel
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Kagey K
Banned
You said end of, so why are you still replying?No need for luck . Very confident❤
Kazekage1981
Member
I think the XsX SSD is good enough to keep the RAM fed, I cant believe that it all boils down to SSD being the main factor in determining next-gen graphics, while completely overlooking the things that have always been the main factor:
-CPU, GPU, RAM. which XsX has a clear win in.
-CPU, GPU, RAM. which XsX has a clear win in.
Bernkastel
Ask me about my fanboy energy!
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Again reading XSX marketing spec read from a press pack.
Both consoles have a very similar core of components handing SSD I/O and HW decompression of data. You perhaps missed how much time and SoC space they dedicated to HW decompression, cache scrubbers, DMA handling, coherency engines, etc... in the custom I/O processing block? Of course you did not miss that... that much is clear.
longdi
Banned
I think most here will stick with the tried and tested CPGPU/RAM factors
Only a handful are trying to hype that the SSD advantage can make better looking/playing next gen games
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
I think most here will stick with the tried and tested CPGPU/RAM factors
Only a handful are trying to hype that the SSD advantage can make better looking/playing next gen games
Surely you are not trying to make those the only centres of attention and minimise other factors because your box WINS if looked only through that lens and you only care about winning a numbers war any way you can
?
Kagey K
Banned
As I pointed out yesterday, the HDD has been pulling the same weight this gen, (every game has to be installed and they all pull off it) meaning next gen doesn’t change. They all do the same thing, just faster.I think most here will stick with the tried and tested CPGPU/RAM factors
Only a handful are trying to hype that the SSD advantage can make better looking/playing next gen games
ToadMan
Member
This is outmoded thinking.
Those processors can only flex their power on data they have available. That’s why load speeds are so critical and it’s been an issue on PCs as well as console as processing power has increased.
In the past games were designed to hide the low bulk storage transfer rates.
This coming gen, the concept is to remove those game design compromises - the bulk storage is greatly increased to the point where MS are calling it virtual memory and talking about extreme short term load times.
MS have worked hard to achieve the removal of those compromises caused by slow bulk storage access and limited RAM - if they are unsuccessful, the extra power of the cpu and gpu will be wasted waiting for data.
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longdi
Banned
But 9gbs vs 4.8gbs is not too big to be limited, our games were designed for 100mbs the past 7 years.
Besides both consoles are still limited to zen2 and rdna2.
ToadMan
Member
But 9gbs vs 4.8gbs is not too big to be limited, our games were designed for 100mbs the past 7 years.
Besides both consoles are still limited to zen2 and rdna2.
If you want to keep playing games from last gen then There’s no need for new hardware.
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Kagey K
Banned
So by this thinking I can plug an SSD into my PS4 and XB1 and I am going to immediately notice better graphics and not just better loading times?
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
CPU and GPU they have wins in, much less on the CPU once you factor SMT in (COU clock speed reduced to 3.6 GHz) and impact of HW virtualisation, but sure there is a 3.8 GHz mode that offers a decent delta. GPU wise there are scenarios where that 18% difference, those 12.x TFLOPS, can flex their wings for sure and although the difference in reality may not be huge (more excited for VRS and ML denoising than that myself) give past history (PS4 vs Xbox One, XSX vs PS4 Pro... and the delta for each)... GPU clocks and geometry, rasterisation, ACE’s, and HW Dispatcher impact on that take aside for a second. So there are possibly mitigating factors. Higher quality pixels on one side is not a tough claim to make though.
RAM bandwidth yes, especially if GPU can limit itself to the 10 GB fast memory and there is not a lot of contention with the CPU, but the advantage is there. It has to be there to feed a hungrier GPU (see TFLOPS point above).
SSD on XSX is good enough to feed RAM and it is a large jump over older systems’ HDD setups and can take advantage of its bandwidth efficiently PS5 just has a lower latency and much faster bandwidth block better suited to stream more and more data in RAM per frame than XSX.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Yep... and that is the point
.No, but you know that and you know what others are saying. This dance around the SSD mattering or not based on how much people tie UE5’s demo performance and quality to it or not is fun to watch
.
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Kagey K
Banned
Well it should mean I’m hitting max resolution and max framerate more often at least right?Yep... and that is the point
No, but you know that and you know what others are saying. This dance around the SSD mattering or not based on how much people tie UE5’s demo performance and quality to it or not is fun to watch
Since we don’t need the GPU/cpu or ram. They are filling it as fast as it can process so it’s doing most of the work, no?
There are so many games with variable resolutions and variable framerates that I can max out by having an SSD.
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Kagey K
Banned
Bullshit.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Sure man, whatever floats your boat.
With all due respect, your statement doesn't make sense at all.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
It does, you are taking the 2-3x memory extension and bandwidth multiplier without considering the fact it is a number given over non optimised PRT usage which is supported by what MS itself has been saying about SF over PRT and SFS over SF, but if you have secret sauce to justify that much of a large massive incredible improvement over PRT please quote it (beyond the additional HW texture blending mode).
Balducci30
Member
I’m just going to pretend I know what all of this gobbledygook means and say the graphics will be good I think.
Jon Neu
Banned
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Look how incredibly easy is to make a Sony warrior rage
Entire point of some of these posts is just trying to bait or just piss people off with disingenuous trolling comments too, mission accomplished sometimes too maybe?
Kagey K
Banned
At least they would never make fake discord’s with fake usernames to make other people look bad.Look how incredibly easy is to make a Sony warrior rage
That would be something pathetic.
Which part? MS and the other random twitter user mention 2x-3x efficiency, some unknow twitter user doesn't mention that it's over loading the whole texture. You link that to some other feature another MS twitter user posted which is said to be custom. You use that as secret sauce to nullify a gap using the multiplier figure that is not completely related to the custom hardware feature on top of regular SF.
You don't ask or understand how you think this figure is achieved, you just take it as gospel.
Those tweets are months old and they have been dug up for obvious reasons. In response somebody (the same user he had responded to) did actually ask him that months ago if this is related only to xbox... No answer.
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Nice read... would you have a link to all of this being debunked or is the debunking still being group thought?
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Jon Neu
Banned
Just because people have different opinions that doesn’t mean they are “baiting you”.
This is literally an Xbox thread yet here we have all the usual Sony fanboys acting all enraged against people who where having a technical discussion (much more interesting than anything that user could say).
I bet that’s why he got so mad.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Calling people Sony Ponies or Soyboys isn’t baiting? Well, is it disingenuous Monday or what?
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longdi
Banned
Just highlighting going from 100mbs to 4.8gbs, already unlock tons of possibilities, and likely enough overhead avaliable in conjection with the rest of the specs.
I just feel MS made a more powerful/balanced system.
You cant discount the big apu, you just cant.
It is like 8x3.6ghz + 2080S + 3200mhz memory (always)> 8x3.5ghz 2070 + 3800mhz memory
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Bonsaibäumchen
Member
Opinions obviously differ.Just highlighting going from 100mbs to 4.8gbs, already unlock tons of possibilities, and likely enough overhead avaliable in conjection with the rest of the specs.
I just feel MS made a more powerful/balanced system.
You cant discount the big apu, you just cant.
It is like 8x3.6ghz + 2080S + 3200mhz memory (always)> 8x3.5ghz 2070 + 3800mhz memory
From what I have read about both consoles, so far sonys seems to be more balanced.
Bumblebeetuna
Member
what’s this lol
longdi
Banned
From what i read, the faster SSD is more helpful in easing development, rather than unleashing better gameplay or graphics.
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D
Deleted member 775630
Unconfirmed Member
Why? The SSD is so fast the GPU won't be able to take full advantage of the speed => unbalanced.
Bonsaibäumchen
Member
You are actually talking about Unreal Engine 5 which will reduce time spent on asset creation and scene lightning and will affect both consoles and pc.
Says who?
Care to offer some calculations that emphasize your claim?
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You're quoting a random twitter user who got the 2-3x figure from the official microsoft xbox series x page to discredit the figure?
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longdi
Banned
I read such words before UE5 was shown. IIRC some developers were cheering fast ssd = less work in data management.
That just gives me the impression PS5 is more developer friendly, but still clearer weaker.
And that Mark Sony goal with so much custom work on the SSD, is veered towards development workflow than actual gameplay/graphics fantasy
Sure, easier to develop = more time to think creatitivy, but still...nothing that SeX 4.8gbs cant do imo. (limited by time rather than hardware)
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Bonsaibäumchen
Member
Again both consoles have ssds. So this development workflow will affect both consoles.
The speed difference between both consoles doens't affect the data management stuff you are talking about that much.
Its the tech/architecture of the ssd devices which does it compared to hdd devices. (old tech vs new tech)
I don't want to be rude or mean but many people don't even understand what they are talking about.
Computers are complicated stuff with many facets. You simply can't pick one or two values compare them with each other and say which one is overall better.
It all depends on the surrounding architecture (supporting chips and so on), the APIs (application-programming-interfaces) offered by those different machines, the game-engines build for these machines and obviously then even the game developer whos using this to create a game with all that at hand.
One example - You can literally have two identical chips lets say a 1Petaflop Chip at 5ghz and both could perform different because the microcode in those chips is different.
One of those chips has mircocode to handle certain calculation better than the other.
Now if you were to _acutally_ use this specific microcode in your application it could run better on the chip that supports it.
It's really not that easy to compare.
I would call my knowledge superficial overall though so don't expect me to be able to explain anything in detail.
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I think the same exact way. What Sony did with the SSD is smart by really pushing the I/O throughput to 9GB/s. On the other hand what MSFT did with the GPU/CPU and SFS is impressive as well. I look forward to seeing the results of both machines and how they utilize RAM.
ToadMan
Member
And now you’re being deliberately obtuse.
geordiemp
Member
From what i read, the faster SSD is more helpful in easing development, rather than unleashing better gameplay or graphics.
I guess you did not watch the demo for UE5 showing both lower development time and better image quality graphics, as that demo visually blows everything else out of the water. If any gamer cannot see the quality of graphics in the demo, they dont need next gen anyway - may as well stick with what you got.
There will be many last gen games upped to native 4k or using RT using current rendering that will look 18 % better on XSX whatever that means to you, and will look no different than current games running on a high end PC thats been around for past year or 2.
Some true next gen games will use streaming technology and high assets in real time and look in a different league, like that UE5 demo. That is what is exciting about next gen, and it is about IO and coherency and latency to pull that off with high quality.
Roll on the gameplay next month, I dont expect many games to be using the huge detail of that demo, but some will use some of the concepts I am sure.
Posters get so hung up in max throughput potential numbers, minimum is 5.5 GB/s raw, Max is 22 GB/s all numbers inbetween depend on what is being sent at any time, hence 9 is a possible average but unknown. NOT all data is highly compressed textures and the compression ratio depends on what the data is..
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ToadMan
Member
Just highlighting going from 100mbs to 4.8gbs, already unlock tons of possibilities, and likely enough overhead avaliable in conjection with the rest of the specs.
I just feel MS made a more powerful/balanced system.
You cant discount the big apu, you just cant.
It is like 8x3.6ghz + 2080S + 3200mhz memory (always)> 8x3.5ghz 2070 + 3800mhz memory
Of course. Once we see some games we’ll start to see what all this means in practice - particularly towards the end of the generation.
My personal prediction right now is that mulitplats will for all practical purposes, be identical between ps5 and Xsex and we’ll need to see what 1st parties or 3rd party exclusives do to demonstrate the actual power of these new consoles.
longdi
Banned
Yes the real games will be the judgement.
But even UE5 demo was broken by Epic China team that the engine dont need some pie in sky SSD speeds.
4.8gbs is a huge uplift, there must be a lot of spare capacity in there already, for next gen level designs
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
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longdi
Banned
My guess is multiplats will see SeX running higher1800p (vs 1440p), with better framerates and sharper RT effects.
1st parties will be identically beautiful. SeX will probably have an edge in crazy effects you cant think off now.
Leyasu
Banned
I wonder why people are doubling down on the SSD being the thing the most important next gen??
whereas if it was reversed,the notion that the SSD was going to change anything would be ridiculed to high heaven.
SSD in the ps5 has become this gens power of the cloud. Until the games prove otherwise.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
longdi
Banned
You mean the PS5 video shown on a laptop media player
Im talking about their speech content though. The video is just a video for background purposes, that was a TV/Internet(?) show after all.
Bonsaibäumchen
Member
Yeah this is somewhat true. But then same could be said about XsX Velocity Architecture and so on.
Everything sony and ms wise sounds nice and fancy but dosn't mean shit until proven otherwise.
You mean the head of Epic deniying it? Or some chinese person in some interview taken out of context and translated in 20 different ways?
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