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[kuncol02]

But you’ve made up your mind that a guy who has posted a number of YouTube videos regarding coding techniques (which I can verify are accurate btw), has credentials of working for a game studio and is evidently well capable of understanding the PS5 presentation, isn’t sufficiently well versed to convince you of anything...

I don’t think it matters who told you something on the topic whether it was Iwata, Carmack or Kojima - you’ve chosen to remain firmly In your camp regardless of any facts, evidence or knowledge presented.

You're in a cult now.

I'm just tired of you guys posting nth video about the same topic, which don't bring anything new to discussion.

 

[Thirty7ven]

So much I want to say but most wouldnt believe it anyhow.

And no Sony does not want Gamepass on their ecosystem period.

Like what, Microsoft actually has no interest in hardware and if Nintendo and Sony accepted Gamepass on their ecosystems they wouldn’t even bother releasing a XSX?

 

[SlimySnake]

Microsoft's method is pro-consumer, but Sony's method is pro-gamer.
As a hardcore gamer, I certainly am excited for new gaming experiences.
Edit: I will have to add that MS being pro-consumer is the narrative pushed for nextgen, we did not hear any narrative like this in 2013

gonna have to disagree hard on it being pro-consumer. it's as anti-consumer as you can get.

MS being "pro-consumer" is a bullshit narrative.
New consoles always had exclusives at launch, it was never a problem until now... I mean, it still isn't, it's just fanboys running wild with that because of console wars.

This. so much.

It is NOT pro-consumer to sell a next gen console while offering gamers zero next gen games. We dont expect third parties to invest in consoles with small userbases, but thats where first parties come in. The entire point of first party studios is to get games that showcase your platform and utilize the hardware to the fullest. All those studio acquisitions and they are making cross gen games? This defeats the entire purpose of it all.

It is NOT pro-consumer to sell a cheaper and weaker version of a console at an affordable price point. What would be pro-consumer is what sony did with the PS1 and PS2 where they took the loss themselves, more than $100 per box, to sell it at a mass market $299 price. They did not downgrade the specs. They did not offer a shittier product to the people who couldn't afford a more expensive console. They decided that this billion dollar company of theirs could afford to take a $100 loss so that the consumer can afford a cheaper console. THAT is pro-consumer. Lockhart by definition is anti-consumer because instead of taking a loss they are passing it to the consumer to penetrate a market and saturate it with a weaker and shittier console. Every consumer who buys that console thinking its a next gen console is going to be getting a watered down experience. How is that pro-consumer?

I remember getting banned for criticizing MS's crossplay stance on old-gaf. Sure it's pro-consumer to have all players play together regardless of their platform of choice, but MS forces you to get Xbox Live Gold subs just to play F2P games like Fortnite, Apex and Cod Warzone. Meanwhile on the ps4, f2p games dont require a ps+ sub. So who is more pro-consumer here? Sony or MS?

Imagine dating an average looking girl when you were poor. 7 years later, you get a new job, maybe you win a lottery or become a doctor and now you can upgrade. You go out and get yourself a perfect 10 model. Hot, blonde, tall, 12 tflops. But you cant play with her. All that money wasted on taking this model to dinner, and you have to come home to your plain jane who now looks slightly better with some makeup on, maybe even runs at 60 fps and native 4k. But shes still doesn't look anywhere near as good as that perfect 10 model. I am sure you love her the same because you arent a shallow bastard, but then wtf was the point of buying this other console.

 

[nikolino840]

When was that posted?

I don't know,i saw a retwitt on Twitter

 

[Bogroll]

What I said is that you have no idea about what kind of conversation I have with the guy via PM. You assumed I asked him 10 times about TFs.

We have an ongoing conversation where he explains me a lot of tech stuff about the PS5 and I always try to "fish" a bit more info but there is no way he leaks me a thing.

I tried everything

Nothing wrong about your tech expeculations here.

As you know I'm no Mark Cerny but I read TF don't matter on here, I the question it as naturally higherseems better, some get defensive or try and put you down. Tf must matter somewhere along the line, I know it's not everything but it must mean something.

 

[martino]

So, in Cerny's talk he mentioned the Kraken decompression chip as being as powerful as 9 Zen2 CPU cores...that's a TON of processing power for data decompression. Does the XSX have anything like close to that?

same kind of chip different strategy.
the chip (and what velocity do) must not be too far from what is presented in this old google video :

 

[MasterCornholio]

I don't know,i saw a retwitt on Twitter

It looks like a compilation of rumors and official information. Trying to figure out if it's anything other than that especially the claims about the hardware being really weak. At most I am expecting a 20% difference but a 30%-40% difference is concerning.

 

[Handy Fake]

4chan rumor
Sorry if it's old

Didn't Cerny say that the geometry engine included mesh shading?

 

[Thirty7ven]

It looks like a compilation of rumors and official information. Trying to figure out if it's anything other than that especially the claims about the hardware being really weak. At most I am expecting a 20% difference but a 30%-40% difference is concerning.

It’s narrative driven and has too much information.
It’s fake.

 

[kuncol02]

4chan rumor
Sorry if it's old

I'm pretty sure there was topic about that already. Probably fake.
By the way, great heat dissipation and unstable clocks aren't kind of contradicting themselves? Only way that make sense is when first info means only, that PS5 is not loud like jet engine.

 

[Imtjnotu]

I'm pretty sure there was topic about that already. Probably fake.
By the way, great heat dissipation and unstable clocks aren't kind of contradicting themselves? Only way that make sense is when first info means only, that PS5 is not loud like jet engine.

A quiet jet engine

 

[Rusco Da Vino]

As you know I'm no Mark Cerny but I read TF don't matter on here, I the question it as naturally higherseems better, some get defensive or try and put you down. Tf must matter somewhere along the line, I know it's not everything but it must mean something.

Back on topic, TFs are a very important GPU metric.

What some experts and devs are saying is that maybe this time around, with this new paradigm of streaming data from the disk as a huge pool of ram, TF are not that important anymore.

We will see.

 

[ToadMan]

I'll take that as a no then, I'm just asking from the Info I read on here, so im not allowed to question it, one is higher but the lower one is better.Im meant to just suck it all up.
Brand as in Amd v Amd etc as both same brand in the consoles.

It’s a no of course. However your “question” is irrelevant as it is written to this discussion.

The systems we’re talking don’t meet your criteria. They don’t share memory, architecture or brand.

 

[martino]

I'm pretty sure there was topic about that already. Probably fake.
By the way, great heat dissipation and unstable clocks aren't kind of contradicting themselves? Only way that make sense is when first info means only, that PS5 is not loud like jet engine.

variable clocks are here to keep stable power budget translating in stable heat dissipation

 

[Bogroll]

It’s a no of course. However your “question” is irrelevant as it is written to this discussion.

The systems we’re talking don’t meet your criteria. They don’t share memory, architecture or brand.

I think it is relevant when people are saying Tf don't matter.

 

[DaGwaphics]

It is NOT pro-consumer to sell a next gen console while offering gamers zero next gen games. We dont expect third parties to invest in consoles with small userbases, but thats where first parties come in. The entire point of first party studios is to get games that showcase your platform and utilize the hardware to the fullest. All those studio acquisitions and they are making cross gen games? This defeats the entire purpose of it all.

The funny thing is that you might not notice the difference in performance between a F4 and a SR-71 in open space, seeing them together is often the best way. At least let the games launch first, before telling us how first parties are underutilizing the XSX.

 

[Andodalf]

I'm pretty sure there was topic about that already. Probably fake.
By the way, great heat dissipation and unstable clocks aren't kind of contradicting themselves? Only way that make sense is when first info means only, that PS5 is not loud like jet engine.

PS5 clocks aren’t tied to thermals, but to power draw. Power draw will be steady on PS5, at least in terms of the APU. On old consoles some games used more power. Which caused the console to heat up as the clocks stayed the same, like RDR2 or God of War. On PS5 you have to pull back and do less or you get a hit to performance as there is no power headroom. Ps5 changes things to where devs have to think primarily about a power ceiling when optimizing. This is all stuff Cerny made clear early on.

 

[Gediminas]

When was that posted?

yesterday, we laughed at it and forgot about it. its nonsense. so thats that.

 

[Brudda26]

From the Digital Foundry XSX article:

So 5 for XSX decompression block compared to the 9 equivalemt dedicated for ps5

 

[SlimySnake]

4chan rumor
Sorry if it's old

note to ps5 fans: dont dismiss rumors like this. we saw what happened with github. just assume the worst, and hope for the best. even if its 30% its not a big deal. we know from the UE5 games will look great on the ps5.

 

[kuncol02]

PS5 clocks aren’t tied to thermals, but to power draw. Power draw will be steady on PS5, at least in terms of the APU. On old consoles some games used more power. Which caused the console to heat up as the clocks stayed the same, like RDR2 or God of War. On PS5 you have to pull back and do less or you get a hit to performance as there is no power headroom. Ps5 changes things to where devs have to think primarily about a power ceiling when optimizing. This is all stuff Cerny made clear early on.

I know. There is problem. 30% slower than XSX like in that leak would mean that PS5 is on average around 9TFlop. I wouldn't call that "great heat dissipation" when they need to go so low with power.
I also wonder why variable SSD speed? Controller and decompressor tied to CPU clock?

 

[ToadMan]

Back on topic, TFs are a very important GPU metric.

What some experts and devs are saying is that maybe this time around, with this new paradigm of streaming data from the disk as a huge pool of ram, TF are not that important anymore.

We will see.

Tflops have always been only part of the story. The same as one can’t predict the absolute top speed of a vehicle from its horse power, tflops only serve to explain a “static” parameter of a gpu - processing units x clock.

But in the real world there are a number of other factors that lead to a final FPS for a given resolution and application.

I find that those who try to reduce complex arguments to a single binary choice based on one piece of data, simply don’t understand the topic - that’s why they’re trying to look for a simplified metric rather than researching the complexities.

 

[ToadMan]

note to ps5 fans: dont dismiss rumors like this. we saw what happened with github. just assume the worst, and hope for the best. even if its 30% its not a big deal. we know from the UE5 games will look great on the ps5.

Um even if it’s “30%” (whatever that means), with those games lined up Xsex is toast.

It’s MS who’d have to be concerned.

 

[martino]

note to ps5 fans: dont dismiss rumors like this. we saw what happened with github. just assume the worst, and hope for the best. even if its 30% its not a big deal. we know from the UE5 games will look great on the ps5.

if there is no mesh shader on ps5 then i didn't understood what mesh shader is

 

[Rusco Da Vino]

note to ps5 fans: dont dismiss rumors like this. we saw what happened with github. just assume the worst, and hope for the best. even if its 30% its not a big deal. we know from the UE5 games will look great on the ps5.

Note to all users: That 4chan post is fucking bullshit.

 

[thurnishaleygw]

I know. There is problem. 30% slower than XSX like in that leak would mean that PS5 is on average around 9TFlop. I wouldn't call that "great heat dissipation" when they need to go so low with power.

PS5 is back to 9TF, guys.

 

[zaitsu]

PS5 is back to 9TF, guys.

It’s RDNA 0.5

 

[Gediminas]

I know. There is problem. 30% slower than XSX like in that leak would mean that PS5 is on average around 9TFlop. I wouldn't call that "great heat dissipation" when they need to go so low with power.

8,47tf, yeah, right so every month TF going down. in november we gonna see comparisons PS5 VS Lockhart

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

So 5 for XSX decompression block compared to the 9 equivalemt dedicated for ps5

5 for all of the I/O, not just the decompression block. On PS5 Zen core numbers were only given to the decompression block (9) and DMA controller (1-2). It also has the two I/O coprocessors and coherency engines as well. XSX may have other HW but Microsoft haven't shared such info yet.

 

[Andodalf]

I know. There is problem. 30% slower than XSX like in that leak would mean that PS5 is on average around 9TFlop. I wouldn't call that "great heat dissipation" when they need to go so low with power.

No, the power and thermals are never changing, at least from the APU . Clocks are related to, but not completely indicative of the clock speed you’re at. There is no going low with power. Also I highly doubt performance would go nearly that low, as high clocks typically mean you can get a lot of power budget back for just a few % your clocks, and Cerny himself said as much. Not so mention CPU would no doubt be hit first, using the adaptation of smart shift Cerny talked about.

Overall console power draw and heat can change a bit based on things like having an extra SSD in there, or running a disk in the drive, but that shouldn’t be a big deal overall, and wouldn’t affect the APU at all as it’s only being set by its own power monitor.


Edit: CPU to APU derp

 

[MasterCornholio]

It’s narrative driven and has too much information.
It’s fake.

So discord type FUD?

Dang I'm really getting tired of that crap.

 

[geordiemp]

I'll take that as a no then, I'm just asking from the Info I read on here, so im not allowed to question it, one is higher but the lower one is better.Im meant to just suck it all up.
Brand as in Amd v Amd etc as both same brand in the consoles.
And yes they don't share the parameters but people watch and post that video of TF and use it as a yardstick. Yes when there's a agenda.

What wins is what looks the best quality, and as of today the UE5 demo beats everything hands down, easily, at 1440p, nothing comes even close.

The quality is so high you have to be told its 1440p, as it cannot be measued by counting pixels (DF). So the new meta is high quality assets and streaming huge assets from SSD.

Terrafloppies got boring a month ago....

 

[SlimySnake]

Um even if it’s 30%, with those games lined up Xsex is toast.

It’s MS who’d have to be concerned.

MS are definitely concerned. those twitter posts from their execs and official channel are not from people who are confident in their product.

 

[J_Gamer.exe]

PS5 Architecture is Better Than “Any Console in History” – Report

gamingbolt.com

Come on... I'm sure these developers will soon change their tune and withdraw their praise for 'personal reasons'.

Like that Crytek bloke, he withdrew it so it must not have been true, that's what I was constantly told by lunatics on youtube comments LOL.

Surely weve heard this by enough different sources now to know the ps5 must be revolutionary.

 

[SgtCaffran]

smart delivery it is not same as cross gen, smart delivery will automatically download relevant patches to the game to offer next gen enhancements (going beyond resolution and FPS, I am guessing that ray tracing could be one of these used more often than others).

Smart delivery is just a fancy term that if you buy a cross gen game that you get to play both current and next gen versions. So games that use smart delivery are per definition cross gen... That was my point.

 

[ToadMan]

I know. There is problem. 30% slower than XSX like in that leak would mean that PS5 is on average around 9TFlop. I wouldn't call that "great heat dissipation" when they need to go so low with power.
I also wonder why variable SSD speed? Controller and decompressor tied to CPU clock?

Not quite. Tflops are a static calculation of theoretical max computation .

If you want to try and use tflops for actual dynamic performance and say PS5 is 9tf, then Xsex must use the same metric and would be around 11tflops.

But tflops aren't used that way. And what Does “30%” mean? 30% less resolution? 30% less FPS? 30% less memory used? 30% less latency? A combination?

A percentage doesn’t mean anything without specifying the baseline.

 

[quest]

So 5 for XSX decompression block compared to the 9 equivalemt dedicated for ps5

Kraken takes more general cpu to do the same thing is all. In the end kraken will compress non textures better. Microsoft will get a better compression rate on textures but lossy. Im sure someone could write a compression that takes 10000 cores for the same rate as kraken just more inefficient does not make it better.

 

[Gudji]

4chan rumor
Sorry if it's old

Hold my beer, gonna make some fake 4chan bullshit rumors.

 

[geordiemp]

I know. There is problem. 30% slower than XSX like in that leak would mean that PS5 is on average around 9TFlop. I wouldn't call that "great heat dissipation" when they need to go so low with power.
I also wonder why variable SSD speed? Controller and decompressor tied to CPU clock?

wat ?

 

[ToadMan]

I'm just tired of you guys posting nth video about the same topic, which don't bring anything new to discussion.

What did YOU bring to the discussion?

You didn’t like his message so you decided to dismiss his opinion on the basis of your own arbitrary criterium.

Other than that whine, nothing new was offered by yourself to refute his points. Points by the way which are confirmed by many sources.

 

[FeiRR]

So much I want to say but most wouldnt believe it anyhow.

That never stopped anyone here Come on, 5 days left. Give us something to chew on. We hungry.

So 5 for XSX decompression block compared to the 9 equivalemt dedicated for ps5

Sounds about right considering speed difference. I guess it scales linearly.

 

[ZeroFool]

I am going to go post on my twitter and become a legend!

 

[Handy Fake]

Edit: Beg pardon, was primitive shaders.

 

[ArcaneNLSC]

 

[Metroiddarks]

To be precise. He is only credited on one iOS NFS game and basically everything he shown from his own engine is simple 2D stuff. I wouldn't call myself "game engine developer" with that amount of experience.

The 3d engine is only for patreon if I remember correctly, that guy has more technical knowledge and practice than 99% of people
you read or heard yeah I include the people of DF in that 99%.

But when one most respectable persons of the medium say similar things like Tim Sweeney then he is biassed because "I imagined
is all a deal with Sony".

Yeah because we have dozens of third 3 parties developers saying the XSX is soo superior as many say in Twitter and forums without
any technical knowledge because yes if you want your opinion actual means something you need have experience, an opinion without
that is worthless.

Talking about next gen graphics and realism (Half Life Alyx)

The new gen of bartender games will revolucionare the industry.

 

[kuncol02]

Tflops have always been only part of the story. The same as one can’t predict the absolute top speed of a vehicle from its horse power, tflops only serve to explain a “static” parameter of a gpu - processing units x clock.

But, when you have two models of same car with different horsepower you can predict which one will be faster. You have more or less same with graphics cards. You can't compare two different architectures by tflops, but you can easilly do that with two cards of same line.

Not quite. Tflops are a static calculation of theoretical max computation .

If you want to try and use tflops for actual dynamic performance and say PS5 is 9tf, then Xsex must use the same metric and would be around 11tflops.

But tflops aren't used that way. Andwhat Does “30%” mean? 30% less resolution? 30% less FPS? 30% less memory used? 30% less latency? A combination?

A percentage doesn’t mean anything without specifying the baseline.

8,47tf, yeah, right so every month TF going down. in november we gonna see comparisons PS5 VS Lockhart

Not my leak, as I said before probably fake.

Um even if it’s 30%, with those games lined up Xsex is toast.

They have inXile, Obsidian and DoubleFine. That's more than Sony has (for me at least).

Points by the way which are confirmed by many sources.

And discussed in that thread many times since that presentation. Do you really plan to post every reaction video for that presentation? There is nothing new that can be said about it.

 

[martino]

Fake take too much time.

 

[zaitsu]

Is it 2080 TI ? Anything lower is disgrace for PcMr

 

[Corndog]

So much I want to say but most wouldnt believe it anyhow.

And no Sony does not want Gamepass on their ecosystem period.

I think you have a pretty impeccable track record. I think most would believe though we may like or not like what you say.

 

[Gediminas]