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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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I don't think he's exaggerating (Cerny), the i/o is quite complex and much more advanced than what's been described by xbox so far: (total of around 11x Zen2 cores)

gsmarena_006.jpg
I think Microsoft wants to go for a "cheaper" option and wants to do most of it through software and if I remember correctly, I think someone said Series X I/O was equivalent to 3 cores (I don't know if that's true but I remember reading it in a post)
 
T

Three Jackdaws

Unconfirmed Member
I think Microsoft wants to go for a "cheaper" option and wants to do most of it through software and if I remember correctly, I think someone said Series X I/O was equivalent to 3 cores (I don't know if that's true but I remember reading it in a post)
I mentioned this before but both Microsoft and Sony can’t have it both ways. What I mean is there is only so much they can put into their consoles whilst also being cost effective.

Sony decided to prioritise and hyper focus on ultra fast SSD and settled for a still more then capable GPU.

Microsoft prioritised a powerful GPU over the SSD and settled with a more then capable SSD.

Both companies have inherently different design philosophies which lead to them choosing and prioritising the components that they did.
 
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Bo_Hazem

Banned
I think Microsoft wants to go for a "cheaper" option and wants to do most of it through software and if I remember correctly, I think someone said Series X I/O was equivalent to 3 cores (I don't know if that's true but I remember reading it in a post)

XSX is better than PC, that's a given, but Sony has been pushing so hard years now into development to provide a true generational leap beyond the traditional computational methods, and much more money efficient. This is as close as a 2x generational leap if done the traditional way, which PC's always win with. The fastest way for PC's to adapt is using larger rams, something from 64GB/s up to 256GB.

What's Sony's doing here reminds me of how they dethroned the traditional DSLR cameras of Canon and Nikon by their laughed-at-first, wanna-catch-up-with-later mirrorless tech. It's as well cheaper than DSLR cameras and DSLR lenses. Still holding the fastest continuous shooting in RAW at 20fps, only 4 frames away from making a movie out of photos (Sony a9 II)!

maxresdefault.jpg


I would love to see Sony investing in the PC market as well.
 
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THE:MILKMAN

Member
I think Microsoft wants to go for a "cheaper" option and wants to do most of it through software and if I remember correctly, I think someone said Series X I/O was equivalent to 3 cores (I don't know if that's true but I remember reading it in a post)

I don't think it was/is cheap at all. In fact reading between the lines of the DF article I wonder if Microsoft got unlucky? It reads like they were not only going for 2x One X TF but also 2x RAM and 2x BW with a 384-bit bus but signalling issues with GDDR6 put paid to it?

This then led to the 320-bit bus and asymmetrical RAM "compromise"?
 
The updated DirectStorage API uses 1/10th of a core for file I/O rather than 2 full cores with the existing API according to Microsoft. In PS5 one of the I/O coprocessors deals with the SSD file I/O.

For the decompression the unit in XSX is said to be the equivalent 3 Zen 2 cores versus 9 Zen 2 cores for PS5's decompression unit according to Cerny.
This is what i'm getting as well. CPU resources that would go to decompression would be freed up for other tasks.

Looks like Sony focused big time on custom hardware to take the workload of CPU and GPU which in theory means they can do more and punch above their weight class so to speak.

I'm not very technically minded but this is what it looks like to me. Would be happy if someone more technically minded would correct me if i'm wrong.
 

THE:MILKMAN

Member
This is what i'm getting as well. CPU resources that would go to decompression would be freed up for other tasks.

Looks like Sony focused big time on custom hardware to take the workload of CPU and GPU which in theory means they can do more and punch above their weight class so to speak.

I'm not very technically minded but this is what it looks like to me. Would be happy if someone more technically minded would correct me if i'm wrong.

Absolutely. This is why I want to see games so badly as to top all this dedicated hardware off it is all extremely easy for devs to use and take advantage of (especially significant for third-party devs, right?) according to Cerny:

DF said:
Behind the scenes, the SSD's dedicated Kraken compression block, DMA controller, coherency engines and I/O co-processors ensure that developers can easily tap into the speed of the SSD without requiring bespoke code to get the best out of the solid-state solution. A significant silicon investment in the flash controller ensures top performance: the developer simply needs to use the new API. It's a great example of a piece of technology that should deliver instant benefits, and won't require extensive developer buy-in to utilise it

Too good to be true is the big question....
 
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yewles1

Member
That's why I can't wait to see the XSX running the UE5 demo, if possible. Although, I doubt they'll attempt that, or even allow it to be downloaded and played on XSX.

We are really thirsty for real world action, spec sheets. I'm pretty curious about AC Valhalla on PS5, although I think it's using unoptimized engine for data streaming. The more we go through next gen, the more things will be crystal clear about the capabilities of both.
It might not happen for an obvious reason. Think about it, when was the last time a UE tech demo played out to more than one home console?
 
So here I am, emerging from a 4 days Phantasy Star Online 2 marathon (used to play the original a LOT) 30 pages later....
I was such a happy camper, PSO2 in english... a few more days for PS5 games...
2c80f2fceecf012e832689ff0a843ac7.gif


Will they cancel the SEGA reveal too?
Uh......

 
Maybe they need such strong decompression hardware to achieve those fast speeds?

Like for example if the SSD speed is alot faster than the decompression chip then the chip itself is a bottle neck.

That's my guess anyways.


At 16:55 Cerney mentions that the chip can handle over 5gigs of kraken compressed data per second. .
So the decompression chip is pretty well matched and will likely bottleneck but just barely before the read would max out.
 
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Faithless83

Banned
Uh......


For real? FOR F-ING REAL?
Don't get me wrong, I love the game gear. I still have one and the GG version of sonic was the first game that I ever finished that had a proper ending, but.... but it hurts man.

More than this:

Boas-hist%C3%B3rias.jpg


I should have stayed in PSO2...
 
Absolutely. This is why I want to see games so badly as to top all this dedicated hardware off it is all extremely easy for devs to use and take advantage of (especially significant for third-party devs, right?) according to Cerny:



Too good to be true is the big question....
That piece reads to me like devs are able to extract near top performance from these next consoles pretty easily and quickly instead of it taking the length of a generation (6 -7 years)

Love the work both MS and Sony are doing on these machines.

I can only imagine the generation after with much faster SSD's and better, more powerful integrated ray tracing units.
 

Bo_Hazem

Banned
It might not happen for an obvious reason. Think about it, when was the last time a UE tech demo played out to more than one home console?

That's my guess, and that's already confirmed by Epic Games big shots. But I wanna see how much it'll scale down.

Regarding Velocity Architecture hardware, so far we only know about the custom SSD and decompression block, isn't it? The rest is done by software(DirectStorage, SFS).

Software isn't Microsoft's strength, anyone used PC's long enough (since 1996) would know that. They're just the most compatible with critical programs, and if Apple doesn't want to release their OS or Google to grow some balls with their Chrome OS it'll remain the only choice for people wanna use desktops.
 
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saintjules

Member


Noticed the Chinese Article


Although Sony announced that the next-generation game console PlayStation 5 (PS5) was originally scheduled to be postponed for the online presentation on June 4, US time, global gaming enthusiasts are expected to take a rest assured.

A person familiar with the semiconductor supply chain revealed that starting next week, the back-end IC packaging and testing end of the high-customized PS5 main chip of AMD will begin to be delivered to downstream manufacturers. Monthly and August climbed all the way, and the third season will be the peak of delivery for packaging and testing companies, which also means that the PS5 console will come out this year.
 
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This tweet of his looks related to the claim:



“zeroprey” is also undeniably his GitHub handle:


I know my friend.

I checked all of that when that capture was posted here.

That GitHub account is empty, never active and it has not direct relation with the posted capture. It is as if I make an account here using Zeroprey as username. That is not make me Bryan Karis.

I even asked the real Bryan Karis via twiter about if it was him who posted that "info" and he never confirmed anything.

Until Bryan Karis himself confirms he uses a random account on that site it is an unvetted account.

But people what believe what they want 🤷‍♂️
 
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B_Boss

Member
I know my friend.

I checked all of that when that capture was posted here.

That GitHub account is empty, never active and it has not direct relation with the posted capture. It is as if I make an account here using Zeroprey as username. That is not make me Bryan Karis.

I even asked the real Bryan Karis via twiter about if it was him who posted that capture and he never confirmed anything.

Until the own Bryan Karis confirms he uses a random account on that site it is an unvetted account.

But people what believe what they want 🤷‍♂️

Indeed and I should’ve said “undeniable only if proven to be Karis”, otherwise the only undeniable is that a “zeroprey” on github has a “Bryan Karis” attached to it”. I naturally assumed, based on what I observed, the Bryan Karis is the owner of “zeroprey“ at shacknews and github but I could certainly be wrong.
 

Bo_Hazem

Banned
At 16:55 Cerney mentions that the chip can handle over 5gigs of kraken compressed data per second. .
So the decompression chip is pretty well matched and will likely bottleneck but just barely before the read would max out.

Probably you would need to take off some of those needles surrounding the ears :messenger_winking_tongue: Here, just please listen for at least 40 seconds, except if you're doing it intentionally to spread misinformation, which I hope you're not: (Timestamped)





Receives over 5GB/s of compressed data, then decompressed to average 8-9GB/s, and up to 22GB/s of well-compressed data. Meaning if the SSD in PS5 could deliver 22GB/s of raw data, it'll handle it.
 
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FeiRR

Banned
Could you knock it off with the “well there’s other tragedies happening and I didn’t see protests/Sony didn’t do shit!”
The current protests were sparked after the last of an extremely long list of targeted killings by the police
Now they’ve turned global, and they’re as much against police brutality as they are against racism

So that injustice you’re bringing up is being addressed right now,
But you don’t care, you’re just salty because it inconvenienced you
What does Sony have to do with that? CDPR is a Polish company with (probably) most of their employees living in Poland. When civil unrest happens in their own country, they don't care, even though they should because it affects their self-employed staff and their families. Also, how is the injustice being addressed? You don't even know what's happening here. If Russian tanks return to our streets, you're going to continue living your lives as usual and play your games. I don't say it's wrong because what can you do? But don't try to be a decent human being just when it affects you because it's hypocritical.

As for 'inconvenience', I'm not even going to watch their stream because I don't like spoilers.
 

HAL-01

Member
What does Sony have to do with that? CDPR is a Polish company with (probably) most of their employees living in Poland. When civil unrest happens in their own country, they don't care, even though they should because it affects their self-employed staff and their families. Also, how is the injustice being addressed? You don't even know what's happening here. If Russian tanks return to our streets, you're going to continue living your lives as usual and play your games. I don't say it's wrong because what can you do? But don't try to be a decent human being just when it affects you because it's hypocritical.

As for 'inconvenience', I'm not even going to watch their stream because I don't like spoilers.
my reply is to what you said, not what CDPR is doing. You're complaining that "some lives dont matter" because police hurt some people in your country and no one did anything about it.

But now theres a massive movement against police brutality and you're somehow upset by that. I dont know where you live, but i know movements spread. The entire world is looking at how it unfolds and if it proves successful it will spark activity internationally, the same way other civil rights movements have. So i dont understand this attitude of being apathetic or even cynical towards this.

Btw this doesnt directly affect me. I'm not black, im not even American, but i recognize its a good thing for everyone.
 

FeiRR

Banned
Since you did not reply my question, lets ask the big boys:

@ethomaz
@geordiemp
FeiRR FeiRR
@ToadMan
@Vaztu

Problem:

1. "The Cave", (Full game size 1.5GB) takes 5.5s to be fully loaded.

2. DaGwaphics DaGwaphics claims that it takes so long because, in that time, the SX is saving a footprint on "Ori"(Full game size 10GB).

What can we take from it?
I cant tag any pro xbox big boy for this, all of them are parting on Xbox Velocity Architecture thread. Sorry :)
How do you know I'm a big guy? :D

I don't know why the differences while switching those games are so small. I guess that the following has to happen:
- menu function chosen, current game state gets wrapped up (compressed? we don't know) and transferred to a SSD slot
- game memory is flagged as clean (actual cleaning doesn't happen, it's a waste of time)
- another game is loaded from its SSD slot (maybe uncompressed on the fly, who knows)

There are a lot of unknowns so making claims about how fast the SSD is in that particular operation... I wouldn't do that. What I can guess:
- it won't differ for XSX games as this process doesn't take full advantage of VA (but there might be compression), UNLESS those games are loaded as whole instances but the engine and just needed assets separately, but this in turn requires a totally new approach so you can't do that with BC games and even cross-gen games
- PS5 should do game switching faster, maybe even a lot faster but, again, we don't know anything about it.
 
Probably you would need to take off some of those needles surrounding the ears :messenger_winking_tongue: Here, just please listen for at least 40 seconds, except if you're doing it intentionally to spread misinformation, which I hope you're not: (Timestamped)





Receives over 5GB/s of compressed data, then decompressed to average 8-9GB/s, and up to 22GB/s of well-compressed data. Meaning if the SSD in PS5 could deliver 22GB/s of raw data, it'll handle it.



That is exactly what I said, no need to read more into it..

The PS5 SSD can read Raw DATA at 5.5GB/S. Krakan can only decompress data at just over 5 GB/S . ( INPUT SIDE)

The Point was that the PS5 SSD can read data slightly faster then the decompressor can decompress the data. So when reading Krakan data from the SSD the SSD will never reach 5.5GB/S read speed.

EDIT: Just to be clear I am not looking at the uncompressed data after it is decompressed I am looking at how fast you can shovel compressed data into Kraken to be decompressed
 
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FeiRR

Banned
my reply is to what you said, not what CDPR is doing.
I commented on the CDPR announcement, is it so hard to understand?

You're complaining that "some lives dont matter" because police hurt some people in your country and no one did anything about it.
That was sarcasm.

But now theres a massive movement against police brutality and you're somehow upset by that.
I'm upset about hypocrisy, not people fighting for their rights. If hypocrisy stays, social injustice will stay as well. It might not be white vs black or whatever, it doesn't matter. We don't have black people here, still our rulers find their ways to oppress us fine. The background here is religion and political beliefs but the real reason is money. This is the only god they worship, no matter their flags, races or other made-up ideas.


I dont know where you live, but i know movements spread. The entire world is looking at how it unfolds and if it proves successful it will spark activity internationally, the same way other civil rights movements have. So i dont understand this attitude of being apathetic or even cynical towards this.
I'm not that optimistic. In a few weeks, things will go back to normal. Hashtags will disappear from tweets and not much will change. Maybe Americans will have a better president (but it's hard to imagine a worse one) and this will be good for the whole world because of the impact. But in those places where the world media doesn't focus on so much, people will suffer and die from oppression all the same just like they did before the whole thing started. Sorry, no optimism here. I was an optimistic fool when Obama became the president. I really thought things would change. I'm not on that hype train anymore. I prefer being hyped about games because it's just fun and if the hype dies, not much bad happens. So let's go back on-topic, shall we?
 
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HAL-01

Member
I don't know what to make of this. I definitely know I'll buy it or them like a sucker, but I definitely know I won't be able to see anything lol.

They seriously want me to buy that lens?
I understand they wanted to have that retro mini console aesthetic but sega guys you really should've given it a screen bigger than a stamp
 

Bo_Hazem

Banned
That is exactly what I said, no need to read more into it..

The PS5 SSD can read Raw DATA at 5.5GB/S. Krakan can only decompress data at just over 5 GB/S . ( INPUT SIDE)

The Point was that the PS5 SSD can read data slightly faster then the decompressor can decompress the data. So when reading Krakan data from the SSD the SSD will never reach 5.5GB/S read speed.

EDIT: Just to be clear I am not looking at the uncompressed data after it is decompressed I am looking at how fast you can shovel compressed data into Kraken to be decompressed

I'm not sure what you're trying to say there, is the PS5's SSD supposed to do more than 5.5GB/s raw? You know, like the instant 100GB? 5.5GB/s is the maximum speed the SSD can output, and the Kraken decompressor outputs up to 22GB/s.

Over 5GB/s is PS5's 5.5GB/s maximum output, so beyond that is a joke to ever over-speculate about, with all due respect, and he didn't say words like "only" or "max", but just "above 5GB/s". And until now, there is no gaming platform on earth that can even see the tail-lights of that SSD + I/O throughput and final results, not even that 24GB/s raw BS of the PC.
 
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