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Darius87
Member
- if data on SSD is uncompressed then output is 5.5gb/s.
- if data on SSD is compressed then output is 5.5gb/s * compression ratio usualy data compress at bit less then 2 : 1 ratio so avarage data in RAM ends around 8-9gb/s if all data compressed at ratio 4 : 1 we get 22gb/s that's perfect case.
same applies to XSX btw
anyway, those consoles are going to last for 6-7 years. . PCs will pick up eventually.
farmerboy
Member
Normally I'd agree with you. But this is the year 2020. And it's been a prick so far.
So all bets are off.
SSfox
Member
So here I am, emerging from a 4 days Phantasy Star Online 2 marathon (used to play the original a LOT) 30 pages later....
I was such a happy camper, PSO2 in english... a few more days for PS5 games...
Will they cancel the SEGA reveal too?
Her outfit tho
Md Ray
Member
Who is Amanda Cerny? A relative of Mark Cerny, also working on PS5? Never heard of this person before.
zaitsu
Banned
It does not Apply to XSX, because Its running Windows and DX12. How many times we need to remind you that maybe architecture of XSX is better than PC, but from software point of view Its just a PC. And that’s not how data is Stored on Windows. Quit dreaming.
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SSfox
Member
BRUH
Famitsu guy: "Sega will announce something that compete with PS5 Wired reveal"
Yeah sure
Meanwhile still no VF6 huh
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marvifrom
Member
B_Boss
Member
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thurnishaleygw
Member
thurnishaleygw
Member
IkarugaDE
Member
This is not the big announcement. They'll reveal a form of cloud-gaming at the Famitsu tomorrow.
thurnishaleygw
Member
xacto
Member
ToadMan
Member
Nah mate.
You started off whining about a Tech Talk you didn't understand that's your problem. Read a book or something.
Then you ranted that Sony should have shown the UE5 demo - I pointed out they couldn't because it's not theirs to show.
So far - on both those points, you were wrong then and wrong now. Most people were very happy with the Tech Talk and the UE5 demo, and almost no one except you is confused about who "owns" the UE5 stuff...
After making it clear to you more than once, you posted about tech and implied Sony had "control" of the demo. I was pointing out they don't "have control of it" - that was the evidence I asked for. You provided something irrelevant.
So your original rant was unjustified and ill-informed and then you doubled down on your wrong-ness.
I hope it's clearer for you now but I learned never to underestimate people's lack of ability to comprehend even simple concepts... do try not to be one of those people, there's a good boy.
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thurnishaleygw
Member
It will work eventually, I mean, at the end of the day it's the Netflix/Spotify of gaming, it's gonna be very much present at some point, but we're not quite there yet, and for early adopters is quite a shit show. Besides the fact that there can only be so many people going for it right now, given internet speed in some places.
Bonsaibäumchen
Member
The only incentive for me as a gamer would be if they can offer developers unparalleled computational power to achive whatever they want.
So like using the power of 5 Ps5/XSX for one game session , if the developer chooses to do so. Thats what Stadia promised too. New ways for creators to leverage the underlying architecture.
They haven't shown anything in that regard yet. For me theres no reason to use stadia currently. ( I have Stadia Pro and gave it a try several times ).
Something like dark souls on Stadia can't work because of lags/latency/resolution drops even if you have a really solid connection. Same goes for every game that needs fast reactions/has fast gameplay.
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Setsuna Mudou
Member
Sweeney's quote is so brilliant in it's simplicity, that's how you point out the overhead and layers of abstraction of the PC approach vs the efficiency you can have on the console space
geordiemp
Member
It gets more complicated, in that the compressed data will be in smaller bits / tiles already Kraken compressed and ready to go.....that the custom chips and file system can quickly pick out which geometries / data are needed to display only that which can be viewed / seen.
So the filing and access system of smaller granular geometries will play a large part IMO, for which Ps5 has dedicated silicon to do.
ToadMan
Member
another interview with Scorn dev was posted just now, is asked about next gen consoles a few times
8-10 Hours...
No wonder they didn't show any gameplay - it would have spoiled a big chunk of such a short experience. To be fair though, its nice to have short indie games as filler between the real games...
I'm not sure, is it the sacrificed DRAM-less stunt they went for that added more seek time than needed? Meaning it's probably 2.4GB/s but more latency due to data seek?geordiemp
If so, I can't understand why would they go for DRAM-less.
Well that rumor about Phison said they developed a DRAM less controller. But that doesn't necessarily mean MS don't have DRAM somewhere else not on that controller and Sony's slides seem to suggest the same.
They stream straight from the SSD into an SRAM cache on the SOC where the decompressors get to work on it. That's the implication from the Sony block diagram but the diagram may be oversimplifying things. I assume MS are doing something similar.
Sw0pDiller
Member
you'd sure hope that Cerny and his team thought about the advantages this system must bring in order to prefer this dedicated (but probably more expensive) setup instead of the more common setup that MS has opted for. Why invest in these hardware and make the console more expensive when in the end, the brute force way might bring a better image quality. Sony made that mistake in the past with PS3 and the have learned form that scenario. PS4 was a succes because of the developer friendly setup. If we can beleave Cenry than PS5 is made with the same philosophy. besides the SSD controller, i feel that the biggest part of the dedicated hardware costs was in R&D and not much in manufacturing. we still dont know anything about the size of the PS5 SOC? You'd say that by now a picture of the soc must have leaked... thet have started production allready...
ToadMan
Member
You didn't watch the xbox demo? Well, it won me 1 month golden membership and that "GIF/Meme Champion" title of May:
NeoGAF May Gif and Meme Contest *Winner Gets Gold*
www.neogaf.com
The framerate drops in the Minecraft demo was insane and they tried their best not to move around when ray tracing is on. Even the unplayable cutscene was stuttering like hell.
Then again, some people would rather pick a Lego Ferrari F40 over a realistic one.
That's a good one - although I wouldn't mind the Lego F40 on my shelf...
geordiemp
Member
Go watch the UE5 demo, the advantages are clear - the best image quality of any playable demo shown by anyone thus far by a large and wide margin.
And no you cannot brute force it, go read Tims tweets, he is clear Ps5 does this better than PC, unless you know different ? Do you want us to post Tims tweets again ?
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IkarugaDE
Member
I have several problems with cloud-gaming.
At first, IMO such services compete with real gaming PCs that costs more than a thousand dollar. If you play on consoles and/or PC-games with low requirements it would no longer be worth it (after you don't need strong hardware; In addition, even cheap (integrated) graphics cards are quite capable nowadays).
Then you have to pay a monthly fee. If you want 4k @ 60fps mostly you need to pay a extra-fee. And we shouldn't forget that you still need a device that can play the stream properly (notebook or PC + monitor with decent resolution).
And even then you cannot have the freedom to play any game. In addition, some games have to be paid extra.
At this point, a service like Stadia is pointless for me. However, there are also services where you have direct access to a "real" Windows-gaming-PC. Here I can install everything I want (and keep the games I bought). But that costs significantly more money again. So much that buying a real gaming PC would be more worthwhile after a few months. And I have not mentioned possible failures, frame drops or even the discontinuation of such a service.
And as long as it stays that way I don't touch cloud gaming.
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jimbojim
Banned
Just saying what Xbox engineer said during Eurogamer interview. 1/10 - one tiny part of one core. Or just like Milkman posted below.
jimbojim
Banned
Bonsaibäumchen
Member
Thats a lot of bullshit to be honest.
Stadia costs as much as PS Plus/Xbox Gold/ any other Gampass/Ubisoft etc shit. So yeah I'm not buying that.
For all of the aforementioned things you also have to buy more pricey equipment and games that you want to play. Well on pc games are at least comparably cheap to consoles.
Most of my games are digitsl nowaday anyways. This will only get worse with time obviously.
BadBreathOfTheWild
Banned
The guy that worked on it had a little Twitter thread back in March where he said one of the requirements for the project was that it was not input limited at all. It can spit out data as fast as the SSD can shovel it in.
I’ll try and find it again.
What’s your source that the Kraken decompressor can’t take in 5.5GB/s?
Rudius
Member
PS5 slogan: Waiting awaits!
SSfox
Member
IkarugaDE
Member
What's exactly bullshit? A real gaming pc is absolutely NOT comparable with any streaming-solution.
Regardless of the frequently cited connection problems, it remains that you still need a decent device at home to be able to use the service.
And in the end you have no freedom that you have on your own PC, you cannot keep the games and if Stadia dies everything is gone anyway. It just bothers me that I can't just use my existing Steam library (even if this is now possible with some providers) or that I can't just buy and install every game I want.
I currently see no reason to use any cloud gaming service due to the many remaining technical problems, the restrictions in game selection and the uncertain future.
hemo memo
Gold Member
Unless the internet infrastructure improves dramatically around the world, this is a failed attempt. Netflix for gaming is not going to work the way Google wants it to work. Gamepass solution is the way to go.
CrysisFreak
Banned
I hpe the PS5 design leaks tbh
xacto
Member
That'd give Sony a kick in the nuts.
Shmunter
Member
Shattering hopes and dreams of 40yo virgins with the precision of a surgeon.
FALCON_KICK
Member
With the introduction of SSD in upcoming consoles, game designed around SSD will ensure that VRAM/RAM is constantly kept full of immediate data that will be required for the next 1-2 seconds of game-play instead of redundant data calculated for 30 seconds every scene which might never get used, this design philosophy means GPU will now be effectively working at ~100% workload most of the time and will rarely have idle cycles compared to previous console generation, as they draw more and more new assets/geometry/triangles available in VRAM(constantly pumped into it from SSD) onto display screen, and with less bottlenecks in console design altogether will further ensure that the GPU will mostly be performing at their estimated theoretical Teraflops limit.
Previous game design philosophy meant the GPU was more likely to be idle most of the cycles due to designing around the redundant data calculation and instead that remaining power was mostly used for pushing higher pixel count through higher FPS/Resolution.
This is indeed revolutionary addition to consoles, hope this design philosophy will positively impact how next wave of GPUs get designed 2-3 years into this upcoming console generation.
ToadMan
, correct me if I am wrong.
Previous game design philosophy meant the GPU was more likely to be idle most of the cycles due to designing around the redundant data calculation and instead that remaining power was mostly used for pushing higher pixel count through higher FPS/Resolution.
This is indeed revolutionary addition to consoles, hope this design philosophy will positively impact how next wave of GPUs get designed 2-3 years into this upcoming console generation.
ToadMan
, correct me if I am wrong.
hemo memo
Gold Member
How dare they release a filthy $500 plastic box that beat the performance of my tight expensive gadget!
Handy Fake
Member
No quarter given.
3liteDragon
Member
This is the BIG SEGA announcement that was teased last week, it’s related to cloud gaming.
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zaitsu
Banned
"Previous game design philosophy meant the GPU was more likely to be idle most of the cycles due to designing around the redundant data calculation and instead that remaining power was mostly used for pushing higher pixel count through higher FPS/Resolution."With the introduction of SSD in upcoming consoles, game designed around SSD will ensure that VRAM/RAM is constantly kept full of immediate data that will be required for the next 1-2 seconds of game-play instead of redundant data calculated for 30 seconds every scene which might never get used, this design philosophy means GPU will now be effectively working at ~100% workload most of the time and will rarely have idle cycles compared to previous console generation, as they draw more and more new assets/geometry/triangles available in VRAM(constantly pumped into it from SSD) onto display screen, and with less bottlenecks in console design altogether will further ensure that the GPU will mostly be performing at their estimated theoretical Teraflops limit.
Previous game design philosophy meant the GPU was more likely to be idle most of the cycles due to designing around the redundant data calculation and instead that remaining power was mostly used for pushing higher pixel count through higher FPS/Resolution.
This is indeed revolutionary addition to consoles, hope this design philosophy will positively impact how next wave of GPUs get designed 2-3 years into this upcoming console generation.
I don't agree only with this fragment, today GPU isn't "mostly idle", it's still working most cycles just like you've said with resolution because VRAM contains much data which isn't pushed to frames being there only as backup IF player do someting that would need that data.
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D
Deleted member 775630
Unconfirmed Member
Isn't that a bit counterintuitive based on the smartshift tech in the PS5?
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Depends on what the workload is, being utilised and the work you are doing are orthogonal concerns. Also, if the CPU has time to spare, more power budget can be allocated and the GPU keeps going at a higher frequency. Also, having to drop frequency by 1% and get some power budget from the CPU may still be a major net positive over a badly utilised faster clocked system.
zaitsu
Banned
What ?
You need 10.2 TF -> Highest clock possible -> GPU being used 100%
You need 10 TF -> lower the clock -> GPU is still being used 100% at that clock
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hemo memo
Gold Member
If PS5 is still on schedule for the end of the year and Sony pushes the reveal to July then the design will probably leak before the reveal.
FALCON_KICK
Member
Yes, this means the next-wave of upcoming GPU will have to have even higher texture/pixel fill rate with even higher memory bandwidth to draw more assets as well as push more pixel count simultaneously without being overtly expensive because with this SSD based game-design, Mark Cerny claims of 8 TFs being optimal for 4K gets thrown out of the window, isn't it? Hope Mark Cerny has taken this aspect into account when designing the PS5.
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MasterCornholio
Member
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